Too Much Might? Last Too Long?

After theory crafting along the way of having the same exact build killing me over and over, it came to my attention that there is a serious influx of Might with Warrior, we're talking 25 stacks over and over without any particular effort/risk/change to the gameplay, stripping/corrupting it over and over, just to see it all come back in duels, this with and without investment in boon duration makes up for a very oppressing amount of Power that is unavoidably strong for classes that can't always evade unlike Warrior as even reckless dodge barge in some 3-4k unblockable crits.

I'm honestly all for 25 Might Warriors in short bursts, like bring it on for Damage and glassy setups, but the way it lasts for about 20 seconds is quite overdoing it, boon duration has near to 30 seconds! As a Berserker Amulet I am able to stack 25 for at least 10 seconds and that just leaves nobody a chance to react given I don't blindly use everything right away like most do, but let alone auto attacks doing up to 4k damage and the rest making it much much worst, could it just be toned down a bit so people have a fighting chance?

I get that Tactics needed that rework and shouts aside Shake It Off were overlooked but god that patch has made the damage on Warrior gone a whole other level. Can't be intentional that one can steam roll everyone without trying, just reduce the duration a little.. Keep the generation so the sustain isn't affected, because it's honestly fine, the damage following it is just broken, the whole ordeal of Might Makes Right and Shouts like "For Great Justice!" being awesome utility tools for everyone is great but it lasts waaaaaay too long and the CD is extremely low already.

Speaking for how Revenant has Incensed Response nerfed in PvP which was a healthy change overall, this here is honestly no different and should be kept in check.

Edit: Anet has already acknowledged it shortly after the post, awesome. https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1079653/#Comment_1079653

100% agree. Revenant might generation got nerfed because it’s not healthy to give bursty classes the ability to stack max might without them investing in boon duration.

It’s true that a lot of warriors sustain comes from might, but nerfing the duration of might granted from traits like forceful greatsword would keep the sustain intact while being warrior in line with other specs.

Ah yes, too long base Might durationis the source of brokenness of Warrior profession.

Steam rolling everyone without trying,that's just Warrior, stop crying.

When Warrior enters the battlefield,enemy's greatest fear is revealed.

Those big and long Might stacksgive everyone chills on their backs.

There is one thing even mighty Warrior fears though,and it's called boon removal/steal/convert, just use it and kill the warrior with group if the might duration is such big issue omg.

Also, wtf, you can't really get high might stacks (without effort) that often if there is someone (with brain) who converts/removes boons frequently or if someone avoids getting hit with Burst skill (traited Megabane Tether), etc. For Great Justice does its job, gives might and fury. What should be risky or hard about this? If you can get 25 might in full berserker gear for 10 seconds, enemy can just steal/remove/convert boons at that time then :)

Its a boon... There are even sigils that will help you remove it... Not like its a +15% damage increase while they're in Berserk Mode or something.

Warrior is supposed to be a heavy melee hitter.That why the ranged options are terrible for power builds.

@"Fueki.4753" said:Warrior is supposed to be a heavy melee hitter.That why the ranged options are terrible for power builds.

Are they ? https://clips.twitch.tv/DelightfulPeacefulTitanAMPEnergy

Not my clip.

@cryorion.9532 said:You completely missed the point, I should have saved that clip personally for you of me ripping off warrior's 25 might 3 times in a row in less than 8 seconds and he still had more 25 full stacks up just fine. You're acting like one use of sigil of annulment is gonna do it? Make me laugh. Are you gonna tell me I should just play something else like Necro and get deleted faster by CC Spam? Funny!

@"Caedmon.6798" said:Noticed how that Scourge did what he could to "tank" but just got hit even harder for in the process. This is totally fine! It's just "counter" play to one shot people with a class that can't be one shot taking one specific utility.

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:The way Might work is much more influential than damage modifiers alone. 3.5k Power with 15% More damage.. Yikes. Besides, have you read the original post? That Sigil of Annulment won't do anything.

@Shao.7236 Yes, next time post the clip, so we can discuss without exaggerations, 3 times 25 might within 8 seconds solo definitely sounds real.However, maybe there is some light in the darkness and proper powercreep reduction is on the horizon, soon™. I am all up for it, if it is proper balance across all professions and their specs :) but realistically, after 7 years... not sure about that.Also, play something else like necro and have fun with cc spam.

@cryorion.9532 said:Play an actual Warrior rather than Spellbreaker, you would know how easy it is to achieve for an entire team to have minimum 24 Might. Imagine duoQ™.

The issue is forceful greatsword. The trait is way too good and honestly the might aspect needs to be removed from it.

Mmm another post crying in less than 20 days, I hope it does not become a habit

@Shao.7236 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:The way Might work is much more influential than damage modifiers alone. 3.5k Power with 15% More damage.. Yikes. Besides, have you read the original post? That Sigil of Annulment won't do anything.

You missed my point. It is something you and your team can strip from the warrior unlike damage modifiers. A single Sigil of Annulment may have issues here, but your teammates with Sigil of Annulment would help greatly.

@Ruufio.1496 said:The issue is forceful greatsword. The trait is way too good and honestly the might aspect needs to be removed from it.

Any issue surrounding Might on warrior is not due to a single trait, but to several traits working in conjunction. Combining traits for greater effect is something Anet tries, and mostly fails to push (see Opportunist + Leg Specialist). You're seeing more might now only because of Mender's Might and people taking FGJ into competitive game modes for the instant 10k heal.

I think what might (heh) happen is that they take the PvE split of FGJ and roll it into the other game modes, although I think they should keep the current version for the competitive modes for WvW where that amount of might is more appropriate and more easily cleansed.

@Shao.7236 said:

@"cryorion.9532" said:Play an actual Warrior rather than Spellbreaker, you would know how easy it is to achieve for an entire team to have minimum 24 Might. Imagine duoQ™.

You wrote "ripping off warrior's 25 might 3 times in a row in less than 8 seconds and he still had more 25 full stacks up". Feel free to explain how could warrior alone come to such big might generation (under conditions you wrote).I did not say anything about difficulty to achieve certain might stack. Since warrior has certain traits, the intention IS to get high might stacks fast, it has been like that for years.

But it does not matter, from Cal's post in other thread: "Boon uptime is definitely something on our radar, and likewise how many corrupts are needed to interact with that amount of boons. In general the thought is that everything needs to come down, including damage, sustain, boons, corrupts, cc, stability, among other things."If all other things are going to get toned down, then it's all good, just what this game needs.

@"cryorion.9532" said:But it does not matter, from Cal's post in other thread: "Boon uptime is definitely something on our radar, and likewise how many corrupts are needed to interact with that amount of boons. In general the thought is that everything needs to come down, including damage, sustain, boons, corrupts, cc, stability, among other things."If all other things are going to get toned down, then it's all good, just what this game needs.

Hmmm things might actually get back to some semblance of skill like at launch then. I wonder if they'll tone down the ability to crank out boons rather than just the duration?

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:I wonder if they'll tone down the ability to crank out boons rather than just the duration?

Only if do the same, if not more, to bring down the atrocious condition bursts.

Wow.. Warrior Might generation OP.. Wow.. ("(>___<)")

Ok take away all of the Might generation, its unique to Warriors and every other class can't generate Might anyway, pffft.. ~___~"

Why don't you give us more boons instead, like more Protection, Resistance and Aegis all on a recyclable cooldown, while you're at it give us Stealth and Teleports too. Oh and clones, don't forget to give us clones.. >___~"

@Ruufio.1496 said:The issue is forceful greatsword. The trait is way too good and honestly the might aspect needs to be removed from it

right, just mow down all build diversity while you are at it.

@"eXruina.4956" said:Wow.. Warrior Might generation OP.. Wow.. ("(>___<)")

Ok take away all of the Might generation, its unique to Warriors and every other class can't generate Might anyway, pffft.. ~___~"

Why don't you give us more boons instead, like more Protection, Resistance and Aegis all on a recyclable cooldown, while you're at it give us Stealth and Teleports too. Oh and clones, don't forget to give us clones.. >___~"

It's simple, people like to see classes that don't like to be "nerf" and not "balanced", they usually create posts after losing 1v1 or pvp, if this guy really cares about the balance , he would say something like "you can reduce this and raise the other a bit to compensate", or worry about other classes that can do the same thing as the warrior out of combat and cause more damage at a distance ranger, or simply understand that some classes have advantages over others, not only "He beat me, nerf, he's broken, I should be able to kill everything."And if anet nerf the accumulation of power that the teather gains, considering that it is the only blessing with a decent duration in its construction, it would return us to the boring construction of sustain, of which they will also complain, an endless cycle in these forums :T

@Shao.7236 said:I clearly said that I'm okay with solo 25 Might gen as long as it doesn't last too long. Should everyone complain that Revenant synergy is too strong to get 25 Might and I agree, but people still find a way to assume everyone is some whiny irrelevant hater of whatever profession he's talking about. It's good however Anet is planning to do even better.I get it you don't play condi rev, but your suggestions are easily overshadowed by the potency of the actions. I can strip 7 boons in the beginning of any fights, that should tell you something.

With the exception of FGJ those might sources are all 5s in duration. Might Bro probably had strength runes, so 7.5s really. With Seeker's or Diviner's that would be 9.35 to 10s total duration from sources not FGJ.

Do you think that 25 might for 10 seconds is too long? Because without FGJ, Magebane Tether, or Signet of Might procs might stacks on warrior decay fairly quickly when they don't attack.

Aside: I actually have a Rev. Don't play it much though, warrior is just more to my playstyle.

@"Shao.7236"From the details you posted, it seems that might duration is not exactly what is the issue hereand you did not "prove" removing 25 might 3 times in 8 seconds. Your DuoQ™ is not relevant to this, you should use isolated situation where the only source of might is the warrior in that particular fight. You chose to describe the situation in a favor of the warrior while you as Herald being helpless.

It sounds as if you fought some god warrior while you were rooted to the ground, unable to kite or anything, poor underpowered Herald. Maybe your main focus should not be stripping the might to defeat the warrior? Where is all your other defense? Or you only have Crystal Hibernation block? Why are you not pressuring the warrior and let them pressure you? The warrior doesn't have Defense traitline, so why not properly time CC? You fought back with double dodging, trying to remove 25 might and using Crystal Hibernation. Maybe you can't prevent the warrior using FGJ and swapping weapons, but you can affect their CD with chill application, interrupt Mending and not letting them hit you.

Reducing duration doesn't fix the issue of having 25 might up on initial bursts. Don't forget there is also Frenzy which gives 10 might stacks and rune of brawler which gives another 5 might stacks when using heal skill (so basically 20 might only from using heal and Frenzy). If you are unable to dodge or somehow avoid initial combo, then reducing might duration won't save you. Also, imagine exactly same situation where warrior would upkeep let's say perma 10 might stacks (instead of 25), how would be your situation different if you get hit by almost everything?

But since things are about to get toned down (properly, let's hope), it doesn't matter now. Enjoy being spanked by overpowered warrior masterrace while it lasts :)

@"cryorion.9532" said:I stopped reading at "helpless" sorry, because you have no consensus of how short (Not even 10 seconds.) the situation was and hard everything 25 Might hurts let alone when anything with 1k base damage is used which Axe by default is easily capable of ignoring the vulnerability added on top. Acting like one Axe cleave cycle is /totally/ not capable of 15k+ damage.

I wasn't biased to the Warrior in anyway as it is all stated the way it happened in the amount of time said. Started the fight with 25 Might, removed 3 stacks of 25 Might during said amount of that, as it was said.

@"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:The Rev statement was that, you are probably not aware of how much boon hate Rev can have, so much so Sigil slots are wasted if used for boon removal.

Yeah, I think it's too long given the amount of things that can be done in 10 seconds. I still think the biggest offender was "For Great Justice!" (As stated in OP.) rather than the GS trait since this whole entire game that we've played, our team was getting steam rolled by the 25 Might being shared for 20+ Second across the entire other team.

@"Shao.7236" said:Yeah, I think it's too long given the amount of things that can be done in 10 seconds. I still think the biggest offender was "For Great Justice!" (As stated in OP.) rather than the GS trait since this whole entire game that we've played, our team was getting steam rolled by the 25 Might being shared for 20+ Second across the entire other team.

That 10s duration on that many stacks is only possible with 100% boon duration. Making it shorter than 5s base would not be a good idea as that is already a short duration. If might bro built for boon duration then he dropped other dps/sustain options for it.

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@"Shao.7236" said:Yeah, I think it's too long given the amount of things that can be done in 10 seconds. I still think the biggest offender was "For Great Justice!" (As stated in OP.) rather than the GS trait since this whole entire game that we've played, our team was getting steam rolled by the 25 Might being shared for 20+ Second across the entire other team.

With 100% Boon Duration, it's possible to have 24 Might for 25 seconds using "For Great Justice!" which is honestly part of the core complain at this point. It should have comparable Might duration of Frenzy or about 8 seconds w/o boon duration since it's an utility, that would punish people just blowing it away and remove the possibility of having permanent 25 Might in scenarios where you have no boon removal at play.

If I was to nerf FGS, I'd make it 4 seconds given that this trait has no ICD like Incensed Response. This would lower the 100% boon duration buff to 8 seconds which is reasonable in the grand scheme of things. 25 Might is still going to be possible but much less often, given that we pay attention to other iterations similar to FGS, all in all.

Defensive actions that grants Might such as Shield Master are more than welcome to have 8 seconds since it's defensive, Offensive actions however as Warrior itself is quite.. Offensive giving it a edge shortly keeps the damage in check and doesn't affect it's sustain, so it encourage to keep going but without being too oppressive at the same time.

As far as I learned, consistency in gameplay is the key to competence and skill, more than just one time opportunities. Consider it like accuracy per shot in a shooter, it's much harder to hit many times with a rifle than it is only one time with a sniper rifle. Just a simple comparison.

@Shao.7236 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Shao.7236 said:Yeah, I think it's too long given the amount of things that can be done in 10 seconds. I still think the biggest offender was "For Great Justice!" (As stated in OP.) rather than the GS trait since this whole entire game that we've played, our team was getting steam rolled by the 25 Might being shared for 20+ Second across the entire other team.

Well my commentary explicitly excluded FGJ and I am fully aware of its duration. FGJ, SoM, and MBT all contribute long duration might stacks. FGJ going from 15s to 4s, as you just recommended, in any game mode is calling for too much of a nerf though. You would be better off asking for the PvE split to be brought into PvP which is fewer stacks of might, and then making the duration 10s.

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:Yeah of course, most of my posts are PvP exclusive in that regard. PvE has a whole ordeal that I could not care much about due to elitism for absolute efficiency which makes it incredible dull over time. WvW is pretty hard to balance so unless something is absolutely broken to the point of zero counter, I wouldn't touch it.