Deja vu (Spoilers) — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Deja vu (Spoilers)

Fenella.2634Fenella.2634 Member ✭✭✭

Is it just me, or does Whisper in the Dark pretty much have the same plot as Heart of Thorns?
Only in another setting and condensed to one hour or so of playtime.

  • Some sylvari / norn suddenly and without warning turn against the pact and help kill many people
  • PC and friends are called to the rescue after
  • We follow the prisoners through the map(s)
  • Hearing voices of the dragon throughout the story, especially the norn of the group
  • We can save Logan and Zojja / Jhavi before they are turned or killed, but not Trahearne / Almorra

At least this time we didn't have to kill Almorra ourselves and at least she immediately got a small makeshift monument. But I must say, condensed to that little time the story does not work quite as well as it did in HoT.
And still nothing about Malyck's Tree. JK :)

Comments

  • There are definitely some parallels, which even gets lampshaded by sylvari PCs who comment that the whispers are very similar to Mordremoth's whispering tactics.

    I don't think the whispers are Jormag's because the voice is different and at the ending cinematic, Jormag does speak to us, and mentions that it's time to speak to each other at last.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 20, 2019

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    There are definitely some parallels, which even gets lampshaded by sylvari PCs who comment that the whispers are very similar to Mordremoth's whispering tactics.

    I don't think the whispers are Jormag's because the voice is different and at the ending cinematic, Jormag does speak to us, and mentions that it's time to speak to each other at last.

    I believe Jormag specifies to speak face to face at last. It is “at last” because any contact has been through sublimal whisperings. This time it chose direct conversation to reveal some of its motivations.

    I didn’t notice much difference in the va given Jormag does vary its voice in the end scene anyway and talks in normal tone instead of sublimal whisperings which will sound different anyway.

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • @Randulf.7614 said:
    It is “at last” because any contact has been through sublimal whisperings. This time it chose direct conversation to reveal some of its motivations.

    And what prevents those whispers to be direct "conversation" to reveal some of its motivations? Jormag doesn't listen to the Commander speak, so it's less a conversation and more a monologue. Which would be no different than the whispering.

    The VA is hard to tell since, as you say, the tone changes. Jormag has shown us four different tones so far - if the whispers are Jormag. Otherwise just three.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 20, 2019

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    It is “at last” because any contact has been through sublimal whisperings. This time it chose direct conversation to reveal some of its motivations.

    And what prevents those whispers to be direct "conversation" to reveal some of its motivations? Jormag doesn't listen to the Commander speak, so it's less a conversation and more a monologue. Which would be no different than the whispering.

    The VA is hard to tell since, as you say, the tone changes. Jormag has shown us four different tones so far - if the whispers are Jormag. Otherwise just three.

    There is also recognition in rytlocks voice about “that voice”. It’s interpretive for sure, but I’m not really drawing the conclusion it was a champion or something else from the way the episode went. And that the voice says "join me". It seems to me all indications are Jormag and anything else would be somewhat too left field

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Fenella.2634Fenella.2634 Member ✭✭✭

    I don't mean the way Jormag is talking, actually.
    However, the way the plot was set up and played out was so very similar to HoT and its rescue mission. I find recycling like that rather unusual for this game.

  • I'm not totally convinced it is actually Jormag that is speaking. I think it's actually Drakkar. in the GW1 wiki under Drakkar it says "While it is trapped within the ice, it is still capable of utilizing its powers to "whisper" Jormag's influence and magical energy into those nearby." We are near Drakkar so in fact he could whisper to us. Also since the Norn haven't been up this far in a while its possible that they forgot about Drakkar which is why they think its Jormag.

  • @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    There are definitely some parallels, which even gets lampshaded by sylvari PCs who comment that the whispers are very similar to Mordremoth's whispering tactics.

    I don't think the whispers are Jormag's because the voice is different and at the ending cinematic, Jormag does speak to us, and mentions that it's time to speak to each other at last.

    When Jormag speaks/acts through a medium, it appears some of the mediums original voice get adopted/mixed, and there can be some variance in the volume for the mixed voices. This also explains the nature of the call at the beginning of the episode... I believe the whispers are the pure version of Jormag's voice. While versions that sound mixed, means they are spoken through a physical body. This would indicate that the Prologue trailer is Jormak speaking through a body too...

  • Fenella.2634Fenella.2634 Member ✭✭✭

    I kind of doubt it was Jormag faking the call in the beginning, actually. The sons of svanir specifically took the communicators from the prisoners so they couldn't call the Commander. If Jormag wanted us there, why go through all the trouble in the first place. It could just have let the real Almorra keep her communicator and eventually call us herself.

    That aside, I wouldn't deduct too much from the use of voice actors. Most of them have multiple roles anyway. Maybe if there's a certain pattern conserved through all language versions, but has anyone checked?

  • PseudoNewb.5468PseudoNewb.5468 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 21, 2019

    @Fenella.2634 said:
    I kind of doubt it was Jormag faking the call in the beginning, actually. The sons of svanir specifically took the communicators from the prisoners so they couldn't call the Commander. If Jormag wanted us there, why go through all the trouble in the first place. It could just have let the real Almorra keep her communicator and eventually call us herself.

    After Crecia and Jhavi witnesses Jormag controlling Fraenir's body and using his voice, they make that conjecture about Almorra's call.
    Dialog from https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Invitation

    Crecia Stoneglow: So that comm from Almorra... Jormag was using...
    Warmaster Jhavi Jorasdottir: Oh, Spirits...

    Calling the commander may have been a plan B. We aren't really sure what the Son's of Svanir or Jormag wanted, as their plans didn't pan out correctly.>

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    It is “at last” because any contact has been through sublimal whisperings. This time it chose direct conversation to reveal some of its motivations.

    And what prevents those whispers to be direct "conversation" to reveal some of its motivations? Jormag doesn't listen to the Commander speak, so it's less a conversation and more a monologue. Which would be no different than the whispering.

    The VA is hard to tell since, as you say, the tone changes. Jormag has shown us four different tones so far - if the whispers are Jormag. Otherwise just three.

    One thing Jormag can do with a body is to emote with body gestures. That is a difference between physical interactions and a phone call. The body converses just as much as voice. Creepy smiles included.

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 21, 2019

    well the main difference we spend entire HoT trying find prisioners culminating with find the Trahearne on final boss door, while in Icebrood Saga we find them on first chapter, so they probably will move on from this plot on 2nd chapter.

    main pvp: Khel the Undead(power reaper).

  • Fenella.2634Fenella.2634 Member ✭✭✭

    Exactly. This was pretty much the main HoT story condensed to one short chapter of LW. (MInus Tarir and Rata Novus.)
    I'm not saying anything about the saga itself, just that this one chapter was just a repackaging of a story they have already told before.

    Since Mordremoth and Jormag are already using similar tactics if looked at superficially, I'd have hoped they'd try to make the Jormag story line really unique and flesh out the differences, rather than putting a copy-paste Maguuma mission in front of our noses in the very first episode.
    I think ArenaNet's storytelling has improved a lot over the runtime of both games. This may well be the final season. I do hope they give it their all and really show off their skills from now on. :)

  • @PseudoNewb.5468 said:

    @Fenella.2634 said:
    I kind of doubt it was Jormag faking the call in the beginning, actually. The sons of svanir specifically took the communicators from the prisoners so they couldn't call the Commander. If Jormag wanted us there, why go through all the trouble in the first place. It could just have let the real Almorra keep her communicator and eventually call us herself.

    After Crecia and Jhavi witnesses Jormag controlling Fraenir's body and using his voice, they make that conjecture about Almorra's call.
    Dialog from https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Invitation

    Crecia Stoneglow: So that comm from Almorra... Jormag was using...
    Warmaster Jhavi Jorasdottir: Oh, Spirits...

    Calling the commander may have been a plan B. We aren't really sure what the Son's of Svanir or Jormag wanted, as their plans didn't pan out correctly.>

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    It is “at last” because any contact has been through sublimal whisperings. This time it chose direct conversation to reveal some of its motivations.

    And what prevents those whispers to be direct "conversation" to reveal some of its motivations? Jormag doesn't listen to the Commander speak, so it's less a conversation and more a monologue. Which would be no different than the whispering.

    The VA is hard to tell since, as you say, the tone changes. Jormag has shown us four different tones so far - if the whispers are Jormag. Otherwise just three.

    One thing Jormag can do with a body is to emote with body gestures. That is a difference between physical interactions and a phone call. The body converses just as much as voice. Creepy smiles included.

    It's also rpetty clear that Jormag had something precise in mind with Jhavi. For whatever reason, they seem strnagely fixated on Jora's bloodline in this episode, even if they call it Svanir's. I suspect that they planned to have Jhavi turning into another new Champion. Perhaps even a new Nornbear, to go with the Boneskinner (hopefully that creature will appear again, I want to see that sort of creepy entity be a recurring theme.
    Also, I wonder if anyone can become a Boneskinner, or only Kodan and Norn (which could hint at a connection between the two. if the Kodans can transform into something like that, couldn't they change into norns also, if the means were discovered?).

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 21, 2019

    @Fenella.2634 said:
    But I must say, condensed to that little time the story does not work quite as well as it did in HoT.

    I'd say it works much better, because it is less theatrical and has a much denser atmosphere. HoT's atmosphere did not create any suspense, thus did not carry the story well and was rather boring to play through in comparison.

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @Fenella.2634 said:
    But I must say, condensed to that little time the story does not work quite as well as it did in HoT.

    I'd say it works much better, because it is less theatrical and has a much denser atmosphere. HoT's atmosphere did not create any suspense, thus did not carry the story well and was rather boring to play through in comparison.

    HoT history is basically we speedrun to find our "friends", and on the way, enjoying the journey, we delivered the "egg", find a incredible disneyland(rata novus) and happened to bump into King Mordy's door.

    main pvp: Khel the Undead(power reaper).

  • Aaron Ansari.1604Aaron Ansari.1604 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'm with Ashantara. To me, the episode felt less like 'we're copy-pasting HoT' and more like 'we're acknowledging that this one plot piece is very similar, and so while we're at it, let's also show off how we've improved since then'.

    R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.

  • While I do see some similarities between this single episode and the entirety of HoTs, I ultimately feel that it's going to go a different direction.
    Jormag and Modremoth use different tactics to get people on their side. Modremoth uses forced enslavement while Jormag rather converts people to followers (which is a big reason why some of the Svanir are not Icebrood yet). In a way, this makes it seem that Jormag has this superficial respect for it's minions, turning them to his side but not corrupting them right away (though he seems perfectly capable of doing by force if he wanted to).

    With the whole manipulating and whispers between the two, I think the fact that Modremoth and Jormag have such a different way of gaining control of people is what separates the two stories.
    Modremoth used force and a commanding ALLCAPS tone that enhanced his authority, he didn't really interact with the PC!Sylvari that much He did tug their leash and knock them around sometimes, but that was it. 'OBEY ME OR DIE' sort of schtick. Modremoth interacting with the PC!Sylvari also didn't feel very personal. In contrast, Jormag's interactions feel more personal because of the way Jormag speaks. Softer and warmer tone, almost kind: 'I can protect you...You're stronger with me. '; Jormag wants you to think he's the good guy while Modremoth is fine with you thinking he is a bad guy, but he's going to enslave you anyway. With Jormag, once your perspective has been warped and molded by the sweet deception, you've become just another blind follower to do whatever Jormag wants.

    Jormag is manipulating our perception to reality until we are no longer who we used to be VS Modremoth's powerful oppression erasing who we are forcefully.
    Because of this difference, the PC already seems to be under the influence of Jormag much quicker than Modremoth did the entire HoTs storyline. They were already considering Jormag's offer in the last instance. It would be cool if the future of the story did follow up on this concept and have us actually go to 'talk it out' with Jormag, but that only opens the loophole to being manipulated and deceived.

    And we're supposed to be going after Bangar, who is maybe being manipulated as well? What about this terrible thing that Jormag mentioned in the last instance? And some stuff people mentioned here like Jhavi being of Svanir blood.
    I do think the whole Modremoth comparison that PC!Sylvari made was just a nice callback. It's basically what PC!Sylvari said: "It's like Modremoth, but different."

    Who needs the light? Fear not this night.

  • Fenella.2634Fenella.2634 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @Fenella.2634 said:
    But I must say, condensed to that little time the story does not work quite as well as it did in HoT.

    I'd say it works much better, because it is less theatrical and has a much denser atmosphere. HoT's atmosphere did not create any suspense, thus did not carry the story well and was rather boring to play through in comparison.

    The way they are telling their story today is much better than in times of HoT, that's for sure. The progression seems much more natural and the characters are written much better, with more interesting and believable side quests too. Also, of course the atmosphere is different in a setting that explicitly wants to be the first chapter of a horror story.
    Still, for me the plotline itself - aside from the good storytelling and the atmosphere - did not work as well as it did back then. Maybe that's really just subjective, though, seeing that you all apparently didn't have that issue.

    @AzuraJae.9246 said:
    While I do see some similarities between this single episode and the entirety of HoTs, I ultimately feel that it's going to go a different direction.

    Certainly. The dragons are different and the setup for the overall story arc of the Icebrood saga is also totally different than what we've had before.