So everyone is getting their mobility CD's nerfed — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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So everyone is getting their mobility CD's nerfed

Anput.4620Anput.4620 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited February 6, 2020 in WvW

What has been put into measure so Thieves can't just laugh in shortbow 5 spam?

Also what about Warclaw movement speed? Chasing you down with 3 poeple while you are in combat, how do you escape that now with the 6000 second cds on every leap? Or rejoining you when taking a camp because killing one of them takes ages?

Nerf Warclaw speed and shortbow 5 plox ty.

EDIT: So it is just Ranger Swoops and nothing Thief, Warrior or Mesmer? Ok then.

<1

Comments

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    No,
    Shadow step is the thief's profession mechanic.

    And steal, initiative, stealth, evade, damage, ... but probably not laserbeams.

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • Junkpile.7439Junkpile.7439 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Well hard to nerf if i don't have any mobility. =)

    Low quality trolling since launch
    Seafarer's Rest EotM Hero

  • Anput.4620Anput.4620 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

  • Anput.4620Anput.4620 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 6, 2020

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

    How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

    Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

    Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

    Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

    How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

    Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

    Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

    Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

    Because all classes have different skill, dynamics and playstyles? Just cuz swoop got a cd increase doesn't mean another class with similar skill should aquire the same cd, each has to be determined on a individual basses. Yes ranger is up there mobility wise with mesmer and thief but doesn't mean it can't be on the lower end of the higher mobility classes does it?

  • Tinnel.4369Tinnel.4369 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

    How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

    Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

    Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

    Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

    Where are these thieves with unlimited initiative you speak of?

  • Anput.4620Anput.4620 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tinnel.4369 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

    How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

    Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

    Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

    Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

    Where are these thieves with unlimited initiative you speak of?

    I am saying that they can still spam the same amount so their relative mobility goes up.

  • TinkTinkPOOF.9201TinkTinkPOOF.9201 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

    How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

    Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

    Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

    Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

    Warrior is often full melee class, outside of troll killshot builds, they need mobility to stay with a target. This is a bit OP right now because of warrior sustain and hard CC still hitting like a truck, however after the patch those hard CCs will be doing more or less 0 dmg and sustain will be going down as well. Soulbeast isn't hurting for mobility, they have some of the highest in the game for a class that can kite at 1,800 range, warrior can't do that. Mobility across the board was nerfed, guard GS LoF which is only 600 range, not 1,000 like soulbeast GS, is also seeing a CD increase to 15s.

    You might want to read the patch notes about OTHER classes as well. Soulbeast does indeed right now have to much mobility, after the patch with nerfs to hard CC, mobility and kiting are going to be just that much more powerful. And looking at everything else, the nerfs look inline with most others, we will have to wait for live to see how it all plays out in the game.

    "When you power creep the game and make it so that spam gameplay is nearly as effective as deep knowledge and nuance, the quality of players will decrease." -Exedore

  • @Anput.4620 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

    How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

    Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

    Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

    Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

    Double swoop is 2400 range. Whirlwind attack+rush is 1650 range. Double swoop is more mobility per CD than WWA+Rush.

  • kash.9213kash.9213 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Anput.4620 said:
    What has been put into measure so Thieves can't just laugh in shortbow 5 spam?

    Also what about Warclaw movement speed? Chasing you down with 3 poeple while you are in combat, how do you escape that now with the 6000 second cds on every leap? Or rejoining you when taking a camp because killing one of them takes ages?

    Nerf Warclaw speed and shortbow 5 plox ty.

    EDIT: So it is just Ranger Swoops and nothing Thief, Warrior or Mesmer? Ok then.

    After the changes, any amount of time I'm not damaging you will work against me even more than this current build where I make sure not to "spam" any resource. Why would I "spam" sb 5 all of two, maybe three times, that Initiative allows and not have anything left to attack with?

    Northern Shiverpeaks [EL] & [SD]

  • Anput.4620Anput.4620 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

    How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

    Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

    Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

    Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

    Warrior is often full melee class, outside of troll killshot builds, they need mobility to stay with a target. This is a bit OP right now because of warrior sustain and hard CC still hitting like a truck, however after the patch those hard CCs will be doing more or less 0 dmg and sustain will be going down as well. Soulbeast isn't hurting for mobility, they have some of the highest in the game for a class that can kite at 1,800 range, warrior can't do that. Mobility across the board was nerfed, guard GS LoF which is only 600 range, not 1,000 like soulbeast GS, is also seeing a CD increase to 15s.

    You might want to read the patch notes about OTHER classes as well. Soulbeast does indeed right now have to much mobility, after the patch with nerfs to hard CC, mobility and kiting are going to be just that much more powerful. And looking at everything else, the nerfs look inline with most others, we will have to wait for live to see how it all plays out in the game.

    How are the nerfs inline with Thieves and Mesmers which are the other mobile classes? I don't see any nerfs for them except 5 more seconds on Mes blink.

    The problem is that the Warclaw still has the same speed, going OOC when you see 3 poeple on cats going towards you while fighting a mob will be that much harder and this only helps ganking groups.

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

    How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

    Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

    Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

    Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

    Double swoop is 2400 range. Whirlwind attack+rush is 1650 range. Double swoop is more mobility per CD than WWA+Rush.

    Swoop is 2200 range, Warriors still have another weapon set in Dagger for spellbreaker to have a small dash too, Warrior was also never considered a mobility class and has other things, like stupid damage in core.

    @Tinnel.4369 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Tinnel.4369 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

    How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

    Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

    Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

    Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

    Where are these thieves with unlimited initiative you speak of?

    I am saying that they can still spam the same amount so their relative mobility goes up.

    The same amount isn't all that much and they're still left with the exact same options after they've blown that initiative. Except after the patch, turning and unloading a burst won't be an option. Shortbow mobility isn't what's wrong with thief.

    Soulbeast lasted the longest out of any class with a killer tool kit at their disposal. Cutting their mobility and sustain, especially relative to all the other class changes, on paper, doesn't seem bad imo. Looking at it with blinders on before you can even play it is just unnecessary stress.

    Im just imagining ganking groups on cats running me down and i have no mobility to not get chased and corpse jumped on. If Warclaw had swiftness speed i wouldn't mind as much, 18 seconds on just a dash is insane though, 15 would be more fair.

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    because ranger has very good ranged options, has access to stealth, and overall good mobility.
    while warrior is mostly full melee, has no way to stealth without others and has to be able to stick to their target, because thats the only way to apply pressure.
    you are comparing oranges with apples

    Except core warrior is way more broken atm.

    Stealth is also very limited, i don't use either smokescale or longbow.

    And what about thieves and mesmers?

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    because ranger has very good ranged options, has access to stealth, and overall good mobility.
    while warrior is mostly full melee, has no way to stealth without others and has to be able to stick to their target, because thats the only way to apply pressure.
    you are comparing oranges with apples

    Very much this^
    This post is a good example of why simply comparing one classes skill to ur own and thinking cuz their similar they should follow the same parameters is never a good way to try and argue a nerf or for a buff.

    Core war is infinitely better. And what about thieves and mesmers?

  • TinkTinkPOOF.9201TinkTinkPOOF.9201 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

    How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

    Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

    Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

    Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

    Warrior is often full melee class, outside of troll killshot builds, they need mobility to stay with a target. This is a bit OP right now because of warrior sustain and hard CC still hitting like a truck, however after the patch those hard CCs will be doing more or less 0 dmg and sustain will be going down as well. Soulbeast isn't hurting for mobility, they have some of the highest in the game for a class that can kite at 1,800 range, warrior can't do that. Mobility across the board was nerfed, guard GS LoF which is only 600 range, not 1,000 like soulbeast GS, is also seeing a CD increase to 15s.

    You might want to read the patch notes about OTHER classes as well. Soulbeast does indeed right now have to much mobility, after the patch with nerfs to hard CC, mobility and kiting are going to be just that much more powerful. And looking at everything else, the nerfs look inline with most others, we will have to wait for live to see how it all plays out in the game.

    How are the nerfs inline with Thieves and Mesmers which are the other mobile classes? I don't see any nerfs for them except 5 more seconds on Mes blink.

    The problem is that the Warclaw still has the same speed, going OOC when you see 3 poeple on cats going towards you while fighting a mob will be that much harder and this only helps ganking groups.

    Staff on mes saw an increased CD on Phase Retreat, increased CD on Blink, Mirage loses a dodge and as such doubles the CD of sword leap. For Thief, Death's Retreat saw a initiative cost increase, Withdraw saw a CD increase, along with other things and other initiative cost increases that effect all skill use on thief.

    So I will ask again, did you read the patch notes for any of the other classes?

    Warclaw was already talked about in the balance threads, they agree it is to powerful, and that a dodge will probably end up getting removed, and run speed will be the same across all areas with a possible over all reduction, people were asking for swiftness speed only. If that happens, then you would still be able to out run them. You also should not just be guaranteed escape because you are on soulbeast.

    "When you power creep the game and make it so that spam gameplay is nearly as effective as deep knowledge and nuance, the quality of players will decrease." -Exedore

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 7, 2020

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

    How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

    Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

    Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

    Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

    Warrior is often full melee class, outside of troll killshot builds, they need mobility to stay with a target. This is a bit OP right now because of warrior sustain and hard CC still hitting like a truck, however after the patch those hard CCs will be doing more or less 0 dmg and sustain will be going down as well. Soulbeast isn't hurting for mobility, they have some of the highest in the game for a class that can kite at 1,800 range, warrior can't do that. Mobility across the board was nerfed, guard GS LoF which is only 600 range, not 1,000 like soulbeast GS, is also seeing a CD increase to 15s.

    You might want to read the patch notes about OTHER classes as well. Soulbeast does indeed right now have to much mobility, after the patch with nerfs to hard CC, mobility and kiting are going to be just that much more powerful. And looking at everything else, the nerfs look inline with most others, we will have to wait for live to see how it all plays out in the game.

    How are the nerfs inline with Thieves and Mesmers which are the other mobile classes? I don't see any nerfs for them except 5 more seconds on Mes blink.

    The problem is that the Warclaw still has the same speed, going OOC when you see 3 poeple on cats going towards you while fighting a mob will be that much harder and this only helps ganking groups.

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

    How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

    Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

    Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

    Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

    Double swoop is 2400 range. Whirlwind attack+rush is 1650 range. Double swoop is more mobility per CD than WWA+Rush.

    Swoop is 2200 range, Warriors still have another weapon set in Dagger for spellbreaker to have a small dash too, Warrior was also never considered a mobility class and has other things, like stupid damage in core.

    @Tinnel.4369 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Tinnel.4369 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

    How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

    Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

    Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

    Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

    Where are these thieves with unlimited initiative you speak of?

    I am saying that they can still spam the same amount so their relative mobility goes up.

    The same amount isn't all that much and they're still left with the exact same options after they've blown that initiative. Except after the patch, turning and unloading a burst won't be an option. Shortbow mobility isn't what's wrong with thief.

    Soulbeast lasted the longest out of any class with a killer tool kit at their disposal. Cutting their mobility and sustain, especially relative to all the other class changes, on paper, doesn't seem bad imo. Looking at it with blinders on before you can even play it is just unnecessary stress.

    Im just imagining ganking groups on cats running me down and i have no mobility to not get chased and corpse jumped on. If Warclaw had swiftness speed i wouldn't mind as much, 18 seconds on just a dash is insane though, 15 would be more fair.

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    because ranger has very good ranged options, has access to stealth, and overall good mobility.
    while warrior is mostly full melee, has no way to stealth without others and has to be able to stick to their target, because thats the only way to apply pressure.
    you are comparing oranges with apples

    Except core warrior is way more broken atm.

    Stealth is also very limited, i don't use either smokescale or longbow.

    And what about thieves and mesmers?

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    because ranger has very good ranged options, has access to stealth, and overall good mobility.
    while warrior is mostly full melee, has no way to stealth without others and has to be able to stick to their target, because thats the only way to apply pressure.
    you are comparing oranges with apples

    Very much this^
    This post is a good example of why simply comparing one classes skill to ur own and thinking cuz their similar they should follow the same parameters is never a good way to try and argue a nerf or for a buff.

    Core war is infinitely better. And what about thieves and mesmers?

    In what regard is core war infinitely better than soulbeast? Ranger cant kite warriors so hard and have more or same amount of sustain atm.

    Its not my fault you dont play the strong stuff, longbow and smokescale are definately very very viable and just because YOU dont play those doesnt mean your mobility should get buffed, lol.

    Use the tools the game gives you. And if you dont use them, dont cry for buffs, seriously. Anet wont buff mobility, just because you dont like your stealth options.
    Imagine someone dares to like longbow AND smallscale and gets mobility buffs ontop, just because you need that with your special snowflake build. Oof. Nightmares.

    I was just answering about warrior, because i know warrior best and i do agree that thief, mesmer and warclaw mobility need to be toned down as they are right now.

    You are telling me that right now in the game you can outrun a warclaw? Well there you have your answer, mobility nerf WELL deserved, cant do that on warrior.

  • Anput.4620Anput.4620 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

    How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

    Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

    Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

    Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

    Warrior is often full melee class, outside of troll killshot builds, they need mobility to stay with a target. This is a bit OP right now because of warrior sustain and hard CC still hitting like a truck, however after the patch those hard CCs will be doing more or less 0 dmg and sustain will be going down as well. Soulbeast isn't hurting for mobility, they have some of the highest in the game for a class that can kite at 1,800 range, warrior can't do that. Mobility across the board was nerfed, guard GS LoF which is only 600 range, not 1,000 like soulbeast GS, is also seeing a CD increase to 15s.

    You might want to read the patch notes about OTHER classes as well. Soulbeast does indeed right now have to much mobility, after the patch with nerfs to hard CC, mobility and kiting are going to be just that much more powerful. And looking at everything else, the nerfs look inline with most others, we will have to wait for live to see how it all plays out in the game.

    How are the nerfs inline with Thieves and Mesmers which are the other mobile classes? I don't see any nerfs for them except 5 more seconds on Mes blink.

    The problem is that the Warclaw still has the same speed, going OOC when you see 3 poeple on cats going towards you while fighting a mob will be that much harder and this only helps ganking groups.

    Staff on mes saw an increased CD on Phase Retreat, increased CD on Blink, Mirage loses a dodge and as such doubles the CD of sword leap. For Thief, Death's Retreat saw a initiative cost increase, Withdraw saw a CD increase, along with other things and other initiative cost increases that effect all skill use on thief.

    So I will ask again, did you read the patch notes for any of the other classes?

    Warclaw was already talked about in the balance threads, they agree it is to powerful, and that a dodge will probably end up getting removed, and run speed will be the same across all areas with a possible over all reduction, people were asking for swiftness speed only. If that happens, then you would still be able to out run them. You also should not just be guaranteed escape because you are on soulbeast.

    Mirage loses a dodge which is true, but most i see don't use staff, the oneshot builds or condi builds, the Thiefs abilities can still be spammed to run away, the initiative increases only hurt when you actually want to use the mobility while fighting, if you play defensive for a bit you can still shortbow out of there right after, i say this as someone that plays staff Thief and doesn't get the vault nerf because i literally see no other staff thiefs, the rifle nerf only affects DE and i am more worried about shortbow.

    I don't play Mesmer so my knowledge on skill names is limmited but as someone that also plays Thief a lot the only nerfs that hurt a lot is vault to 6 and some cd increases like roll, nothing as bad as Swoop almost getting double the CD, heck, make it 15s, but 18 is just way too much on something that is just a dash.

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

    How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

    Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

    Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

    Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

    Warrior is often full melee class, outside of troll killshot builds, they need mobility to stay with a target. This is a bit OP right now because of warrior sustain and hard CC still hitting like a truck, however after the patch those hard CCs will be doing more or less 0 dmg and sustain will be going down as well. Soulbeast isn't hurting for mobility, they have some of the highest in the game for a class that can kite at 1,800 range, warrior can't do that. Mobility across the board was nerfed, guard GS LoF which is only 600 range, not 1,000 like soulbeast GS, is also seeing a CD increase to 15s.

    You might want to read the patch notes about OTHER classes as well. Soulbeast does indeed right now have to much mobility, after the patch with nerfs to hard CC, mobility and kiting are going to be just that much more powerful. And looking at everything else, the nerfs look inline with most others, we will have to wait for live to see how it all plays out in the game.

    How are the nerfs inline with Thieves and Mesmers which are the other mobile classes? I don't see any nerfs for them except 5 more seconds on Mes blink.

    The problem is that the Warclaw still has the same speed, going OOC when you see 3 poeple on cats going towards you while fighting a mob will be that much harder and this only helps ganking groups.

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

    How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

    Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

    Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

    Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

    Double swoop is 2400 range. Whirlwind attack+rush is 1650 range. Double swoop is more mobility per CD than WWA+Rush.

    Swoop is 2200 range, Warriors still have another weapon set in Dagger for spellbreaker to have a small dash too, Warrior was also never considered a mobility class and has other things, like stupid damage in core.

    @Tinnel.4369 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Tinnel.4369 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

    How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

    Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

    Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

    Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

    Where are these thieves with unlimited initiative you speak of?

    I am saying that they can still spam the same amount so their relative mobility goes up.

    The same amount isn't all that much and they're still left with the exact same options after they've blown that initiative. Except after the patch, turning and unloading a burst won't be an option. Shortbow mobility isn't what's wrong with thief.

    Soulbeast lasted the longest out of any class with a killer tool kit at their disposal. Cutting their mobility and sustain, especially relative to all the other class changes, on paper, doesn't seem bad imo. Looking at it with blinders on before you can even play it is just unnecessary stress.

    Im just imagining ganking groups on cats running me down and i have no mobility to not get chased and corpse jumped on. If Warclaw had swiftness speed i wouldn't mind as much, 18 seconds on just a dash is insane though, 15 would be more fair.

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    because ranger has very good ranged options, has access to stealth, and overall good mobility.
    while warrior is mostly full melee, has no way to stealth without others and has to be able to stick to their target, because thats the only way to apply pressure.
    you are comparing oranges with apples

    Except core warrior is way more broken atm.

    Stealth is also very limited, i don't use either smokescale or longbow.

    And what about thieves and mesmers?

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    because ranger has very good ranged options, has access to stealth, and overall good mobility.
    while warrior is mostly full melee, has no way to stealth without others and has to be able to stick to their target, because thats the only way to apply pressure.
    you are comparing oranges with apples

    Very much this^
    This post is a good example of why simply comparing one classes skill to ur own and thinking cuz their similar they should follow the same parameters is never a good way to try and argue a nerf or for a buff.

    Core war is infinitely better. And what about thieves and mesmers?

    In what regard is core war infinitely better than soulbeast? Ranger cant kite warriors so hard and have more or same amount of sustain atm.

    Its not my fault you dont play the strong stuff, longbow and smokescale are definately very very viable and just because YOU dont play those doesnt mean your mobility should get buffed, lol.

    Use the tools the game gives you. And if you dont use them, dont cry for buffs, seriously. Anet wont buff mobility, just because you dont like your stealth options.
    Imagine someone dares to like longbow AND smallscale and gets mobility buffs ontop, just because you need that with your special snowflake build. Oof. Nightmares.

    I was just answering about warrior, because i know warrior best and i do agree that thief, mesmer and warclaw mobility need to be toned down as they are right now.

    You are telling me that right now in the game you can outrun a warclaw? Well there you have your answer, mobility nerf WELL deserved, cant do that on warrior.

    Core warriors have way more sustain while being able to use Zerker gear and spike for stupid amounts of damage.

    I play Boonbeast with a greatsword axe and warhorn, how is that a bad build by any means? Not everyone plays glass damage builds. I easilly beat most glass rangers with this build as this build excells against glass builds, but any build that also has simillar sustain but way more damage, like core warrior, just wrecks it, all i can do is be on the defensive, kite, and not die as i don't get a chance to do enough damage.

  • @Anput.4620 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

    How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

    Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

    Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

    Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

    Warrior is often full melee class, outside of troll killshot builds, they need mobility to stay with a target. This is a bit OP right now because of warrior sustain and hard CC still hitting like a truck, however after the patch those hard CCs will be doing more or less 0 dmg and sustain will be going down as well. Soulbeast isn't hurting for mobility, they have some of the highest in the game for a class that can kite at 1,800 range, warrior can't do that. Mobility across the board was nerfed, guard GS LoF which is only 600 range, not 1,000 like soulbeast GS, is also seeing a CD increase to 15s.

    You might want to read the patch notes about OTHER classes as well. Soulbeast does indeed right now have to much mobility, after the patch with nerfs to hard CC, mobility and kiting are going to be just that much more powerful. And looking at everything else, the nerfs look inline with most others, we will have to wait for live to see how it all plays out in the game.

    How are the nerfs inline with Thieves and Mesmers which are the other mobile classes? I don't see any nerfs for them except 5 more seconds on Mes blink.

    The problem is that the Warclaw still has the same speed, going OOC when you see 3 poeple on cats going towards you while fighting a mob will be that much harder and this only helps ganking groups.

    Staff on mes saw an increased CD on Phase Retreat, increased CD on Blink, Mirage loses a dodge and as such doubles the CD of sword leap. For Thief, Death's Retreat saw a initiative cost increase, Withdraw saw a CD increase, along with other things and other initiative cost increases that effect all skill use on thief.

    So I will ask again, did you read the patch notes for any of the other classes?

    Warclaw was already talked about in the balance threads, they agree it is to powerful, and that a dodge will probably end up getting removed, and run speed will be the same across all areas with a possible over all reduction, people were asking for swiftness speed only. If that happens, then you would still be able to out run them. You also should not just be guaranteed escape because you are on soulbeast.

    Mirage loses a dodge which is true, but most i see don't use staff, the oneshot builds or condi builds, the Thiefs abilities can still be spammed to run away, the initiative increases only hurt when you actually want to use the mobility while fighting, if you play defensive for a bit you can still shortbow out of there right after, i say this as someone that plays staff Thief and doesn't get the vault nerf because i literally see no other staff thiefs, the rifle nerf only affects DE and i am more worried about shortbow.

    I don't play Mesmer so my knowledge on skill names is limmited but as someone that also plays Thief a lot the only nerfs that hurt a lot is vault to 6 and some cd increases like roll, nothing as bad as Swoop almost getting double the CD, heck, make it 15s, but 18 is just way too much on something that is just a dash.

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

    How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

    Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

    Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

    Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

    Warrior is often full melee class, outside of troll killshot builds, they need mobility to stay with a target. This is a bit OP right now because of warrior sustain and hard CC still hitting like a truck, however after the patch those hard CCs will be doing more or less 0 dmg and sustain will be going down as well. Soulbeast isn't hurting for mobility, they have some of the highest in the game for a class that can kite at 1,800 range, warrior can't do that. Mobility across the board was nerfed, guard GS LoF which is only 600 range, not 1,000 like soulbeast GS, is also seeing a CD increase to 15s.

    You might want to read the patch notes about OTHER classes as well. Soulbeast does indeed right now have to much mobility, after the patch with nerfs to hard CC, mobility and kiting are going to be just that much more powerful. And looking at everything else, the nerfs look inline with most others, we will have to wait for live to see how it all plays out in the game.

    How are the nerfs inline with Thieves and Mesmers which are the other mobile classes? I don't see any nerfs for them except 5 more seconds on Mes blink.

    The problem is that the Warclaw still has the same speed, going OOC when you see 3 poeple on cats going towards you while fighting a mob will be that much harder and this only helps ganking groups.

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

    How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

    Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

    Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

    Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

    Double swoop is 2400 range. Whirlwind attack+rush is 1650 range. Double swoop is more mobility per CD than WWA+Rush.

    Swoop is 2200 range, Warriors still have another weapon set in Dagger for spellbreaker to have a small dash too, Warrior was also never considered a mobility class and has other things, like stupid damage in core.

    @Tinnel.4369 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Tinnel.4369 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

    How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

    Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

    Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

    Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

    Where are these thieves with unlimited initiative you speak of?

    I am saying that they can still spam the same amount so their relative mobility goes up.

    The same amount isn't all that much and they're still left with the exact same options after they've blown that initiative. Except after the patch, turning and unloading a burst won't be an option. Shortbow mobility isn't what's wrong with thief.

    Soulbeast lasted the longest out of any class with a killer tool kit at their disposal. Cutting their mobility and sustain, especially relative to all the other class changes, on paper, doesn't seem bad imo. Looking at it with blinders on before you can even play it is just unnecessary stress.

    Im just imagining ganking groups on cats running me down and i have no mobility to not get chased and corpse jumped on. If Warclaw had swiftness speed i wouldn't mind as much, 18 seconds on just a dash is insane though, 15 would be more fair.

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    because ranger has very good ranged options, has access to stealth, and overall good mobility.
    while warrior is mostly full melee, has no way to stealth without others and has to be able to stick to their target, because thats the only way to apply pressure.
    you are comparing oranges with apples

    Except core warrior is way more broken atm.

    Stealth is also very limited, i don't use either smokescale or longbow.

    And what about thieves and mesmers?

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    because ranger has very good ranged options, has access to stealth, and overall good mobility.
    while warrior is mostly full melee, has no way to stealth without others and has to be able to stick to their target, because thats the only way to apply pressure.
    you are comparing oranges with apples

    Very much this^
    This post is a good example of why simply comparing one classes skill to ur own and thinking cuz their similar they should follow the same parameters is never a good way to try and argue a nerf or for a buff.

    Core war is infinitely better. And what about thieves and mesmers?

    In what regard is core war infinitely better than soulbeast? Ranger cant kite warriors so hard and have more or same amount of sustain atm.

    Its not my fault you dont play the strong stuff, longbow and smokescale are definately very very viable and just because YOU dont play those doesnt mean your mobility should get buffed, lol.

    Use the tools the game gives you. And if you dont use them, dont cry for buffs, seriously. Anet wont buff mobility, just because you dont like your stealth options.
    Imagine someone dares to like longbow AND smallscale and gets mobility buffs ontop, just because you need that with your special snowflake build. Oof. Nightmares.

    I was just answering about warrior, because i know warrior best and i do agree that thief, mesmer and warclaw mobility need to be toned down as they are right now.

    You are telling me that right now in the game you can outrun a warclaw? Well there you have your answer, mobility nerf WELL deserved, cant do that on warrior.

    Core warriors have way more sustain while being able to use Zerker gear and spike for stupid amounts of damage.

    I play Boonbeast with a greatsword axe and warhorn, how is that a bad build by any means? Not everyone plays glass damage builds. I easilly beat most glass rangers with this build as this build excells against glass builds, but any build that also has simillar sustain but way more damage, like core warrior, just wrecks it, all i can do is be on the defensive, kite, and not die as i don't get a chance to do enough damage.

    All that sustain is contingent on actually hitting a foe, you would know this if you used your even better mobility and a Longbow to create a gap and spike the warrior down with Rapid Fire, hit him with Hunter's Shot, close in, weapon swap, and Maul him. GG Dead Warrior.

    Concerned about double EP plus double LS? Stay in LB and pew pew at 1800 range the first 10 seconds of the fight. Rapid Shot -> Hunter's Shot -> swap and close -> Maul. Dead Warrior.

  • TinkTinkPOOF.9201TinkTinkPOOF.9201 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 7, 2020

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Mirage loses a dodge which is true, but most i see don't use staff, the oneshot builds or condi builds, the Thiefs abilities can still be spammed to run away, the initiative increases only hurt when you actually want to use the mobility while fighting, if you play defensive for a bit you can still shortbow out of there right after, i say this as someone that plays staff Thief and doesn't get the vault nerf because i literally see no other staff thiefs, the rifle nerf only affects DE and i am more worried about shortbow.

    I don't play Mesmer so my knowledge on skill names is limmited but as someone that also plays Thief a lot the only nerfs that hurt a lot is vault to 6 and some cd increases like roll, nothing as bad as Swoop almost getting double the CD, heck, make it 15s, but 18 is just way too much on something that is just a dash.

    So, your reasoning goes from "show me the mobility nerfs on Thief and Mes" to after being shown the mobility nerfs on those two classes the goal post moves to "Ok, sure, but they still have mobility period". That about sum it up?

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    All that sustain is contingent on actually hitting a foe, you would know this if you used your even better mobility and a Longbow to create a gap and spike the warrior down with Rapid Fire, hit him with Hunter's Shot, close in, weapon swap, and Maul him. GG Dead Warrior.

    Concerned about double EP plus double LS? Stay in LB and pew pew at 1800 range the first 10 seconds of the fight. Rapid Shot -> Hunter's Shot -> swap and close -> Maul. Dead Warrior.

    I think they forget that Warrior is full melee, not really any other options for builds outside of not very useful troll builds. Yes, core is very strong right now, however they look right past all the hard CC nerfs, as well as sustain and passives that were a HUGE part of those builds. I also love that he plays boonbeast and is crying about this, it's amazing lol. He plays boonbeast and runs into a core warrior he can't beat and wants to use that as the reason the class as a whole should be able to keep it's broken mobility even AFTER huge nerfs to warrior and mobility nerfs to just about everything else as well.

    "When you power creep the game and make it so that spam gameplay is nearly as effective as deep knowledge and nuance, the quality of players will decrease." -Exedore

  • Anput.4620Anput.4620 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

    How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

    Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

    Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

    Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

    Warrior is often full melee class, outside of troll killshot builds, they need mobility to stay with a target. This is a bit OP right now because of warrior sustain and hard CC still hitting like a truck, however after the patch those hard CCs will be doing more or less 0 dmg and sustain will be going down as well. Soulbeast isn't hurting for mobility, they have some of the highest in the game for a class that can kite at 1,800 range, warrior can't do that. Mobility across the board was nerfed, guard GS LoF which is only 600 range, not 1,000 like soulbeast GS, is also seeing a CD increase to 15s.

    You might want to read the patch notes about OTHER classes as well. Soulbeast does indeed right now have to much mobility, after the patch with nerfs to hard CC, mobility and kiting are going to be just that much more powerful. And looking at everything else, the nerfs look inline with most others, we will have to wait for live to see how it all plays out in the game.

    How are the nerfs inline with Thieves and Mesmers which are the other mobile classes? I don't see any nerfs for them except 5 more seconds on Mes blink.

    The problem is that the Warclaw still has the same speed, going OOC when you see 3 poeple on cats going towards you while fighting a mob will be that much harder and this only helps ganking groups.

    Staff on mes saw an increased CD on Phase Retreat, increased CD on Blink, Mirage loses a dodge and as such doubles the CD of sword leap. For Thief, Death's Retreat saw a initiative cost increase, Withdraw saw a CD increase, along with other things and other initiative cost increases that effect all skill use on thief.

    So I will ask again, did you read the patch notes for any of the other classes?

    Warclaw was already talked about in the balance threads, they agree it is to powerful, and that a dodge will probably end up getting removed, and run speed will be the same across all areas with a possible over all reduction, people were asking for swiftness speed only. If that happens, then you would still be able to out run them. You also should not just be guaranteed escape because you are on soulbeast.

    Mirage loses a dodge which is true, but most i see don't use staff, the oneshot builds or condi builds, the Thiefs abilities can still be spammed to run away, the initiative increases only hurt when you actually want to use the mobility while fighting, if you play defensive for a bit you can still shortbow out of there right after, i say this as someone that plays staff Thief and doesn't get the vault nerf because i literally see no other staff thiefs, the rifle nerf only affects DE and i am more worried about shortbow.

    I don't play Mesmer so my knowledge on skill names is limmited but as someone that also plays Thief a lot the only nerfs that hurt a lot is vault to 6 and some cd increases like roll, nothing as bad as Swoop almost getting double the CD, heck, make it 15s, but 18 is just way too much on something that is just a dash.

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

    How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

    Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

    Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

    Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

    Warrior is often full melee class, outside of troll killshot builds, they need mobility to stay with a target. This is a bit OP right now because of warrior sustain and hard CC still hitting like a truck, however after the patch those hard CCs will be doing more or less 0 dmg and sustain will be going down as well. Soulbeast isn't hurting for mobility, they have some of the highest in the game for a class that can kite at 1,800 range, warrior can't do that. Mobility across the board was nerfed, guard GS LoF which is only 600 range, not 1,000 like soulbeast GS, is also seeing a CD increase to 15s.

    You might want to read the patch notes about OTHER classes as well. Soulbeast does indeed right now have to much mobility, after the patch with nerfs to hard CC, mobility and kiting are going to be just that much more powerful. And looking at everything else, the nerfs look inline with most others, we will have to wait for live to see how it all plays out in the game.

    How are the nerfs inline with Thieves and Mesmers which are the other mobile classes? I don't see any nerfs for them except 5 more seconds on Mes blink.

    The problem is that the Warclaw still has the same speed, going OOC when you see 3 poeple on cats going towards you while fighting a mob will be that much harder and this only helps ganking groups.

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

    How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

    Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

    Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

    Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

    Double swoop is 2400 range. Whirlwind attack+rush is 1650 range. Double swoop is more mobility per CD than WWA+Rush.

    Swoop is 2200 range, Warriors still have another weapon set in Dagger for spellbreaker to have a small dash too, Warrior was also never considered a mobility class and has other things, like stupid damage in core.

    @Tinnel.4369 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Tinnel.4369 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

    How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

    Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

    Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

    Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

    Where are these thieves with unlimited initiative you speak of?

    I am saying that they can still spam the same amount so their relative mobility goes up.

    The same amount isn't all that much and they're still left with the exact same options after they've blown that initiative. Except after the patch, turning and unloading a burst won't be an option. Shortbow mobility isn't what's wrong with thief.

    Soulbeast lasted the longest out of any class with a killer tool kit at their disposal. Cutting their mobility and sustain, especially relative to all the other class changes, on paper, doesn't seem bad imo. Looking at it with blinders on before you can even play it is just unnecessary stress.

    Im just imagining ganking groups on cats running me down and i have no mobility to not get chased and corpse jumped on. If Warclaw had swiftness speed i wouldn't mind as much, 18 seconds on just a dash is insane though, 15 would be more fair.

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    because ranger has very good ranged options, has access to stealth, and overall good mobility.
    while warrior is mostly full melee, has no way to stealth without others and has to be able to stick to their target, because thats the only way to apply pressure.
    you are comparing oranges with apples

    Except core warrior is way more broken atm.

    Stealth is also very limited, i don't use either smokescale or longbow.

    And what about thieves and mesmers?

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    because ranger has very good ranged options, has access to stealth, and overall good mobility.
    while warrior is mostly full melee, has no way to stealth without others and has to be able to stick to their target, because thats the only way to apply pressure.
    you are comparing oranges with apples

    Very much this^
    This post is a good example of why simply comparing one classes skill to ur own and thinking cuz their similar they should follow the same parameters is never a good way to try and argue a nerf or for a buff.

    Core war is infinitely better. And what about thieves and mesmers?

    In what regard is core war infinitely better than soulbeast? Ranger cant kite warriors so hard and have more or same amount of sustain atm.

    Its not my fault you dont play the strong stuff, longbow and smokescale are definately very very viable and just because YOU dont play those doesnt mean your mobility should get buffed, lol.

    Use the tools the game gives you. And if you dont use them, dont cry for buffs, seriously. Anet wont buff mobility, just because you dont like your stealth options.
    Imagine someone dares to like longbow AND smallscale and gets mobility buffs ontop, just because you need that with your special snowflake build. Oof. Nightmares.

    I was just answering about warrior, because i know warrior best and i do agree that thief, mesmer and warclaw mobility need to be toned down as they are right now.

    You are telling me that right now in the game you can outrun a warclaw? Well there you have your answer, mobility nerf WELL deserved, cant do that on warrior.

    Core warriors have way more sustain while being able to use Zerker gear and spike for stupid amounts of damage.

    I play Boonbeast with a greatsword axe and warhorn, how is that a bad build by any means? Not everyone plays glass damage builds. I easilly beat most glass rangers with this build as this build excells against glass builds, but any build that also has simillar sustain but way more damage, like core warrior, just wrecks it, all i can do is be on the defensive, kite, and not die as i don't get a chance to do enough damage.

    All that sustain is contingent on actually hitting a foe, you would know this if you used your even better mobility and a Longbow to create a gap and spike the warrior down with Rapid Fire, hit him with Hunter's Shot, close in, weapon swap, and Maul him. GG Dead Warrior.

    Concerned about double EP plus double LS? Stay in LB and pew pew at 1800 range the first 10 seconds of the fight. Rapid Shot -> Hunter's Shot -> swap and close -> Maul. Dead Warrior.

    Like i said, i play Boonbeast, not glassbeast.

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Mirage loses a dodge which is true, but most i see don't use staff, the oneshot builds or condi builds, the Thiefs abilities can still be spammed to run away, the initiative increases only hurt when you actually want to use the mobility while fighting, if you play defensive for a bit you can still shortbow out of there right after, i say this as someone that plays staff Thief and doesn't get the vault nerf because i literally see no other staff thiefs, the rifle nerf only affects DE and i am more worried about shortbow.

    I don't play Mesmer so my knowledge on skill names is limmited but as someone that also plays Thief a lot the only nerfs that hurt a lot is vault to 6 and some cd increases like roll, nothing as bad as Swoop almost getting double the CD, heck, make it 15s, but 18 is just way too much on something that is just a dash.

    So, your reasoning goes from "show me the mobility nerfs on Thief and Mes" to after being shown the mobility nerfs on those two classes the goal post moves to "Ok, sure, but they still have mobility period". That about sum it up?

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    All that sustain is contingent on actually hitting a foe, you would know this if you used your even better mobility and a Longbow to create a gap and spike the warrior down with Rapid Fire, hit him with Hunter's Shot, close in, weapon swap, and Maul him. GG Dead Warrior.

    Concerned about double EP plus double LS? Stay in LB and pew pew at 1800 range the first 10 seconds of the fight. Rapid Shot -> Hunter's Shot -> swap and close -> Maul. Dead Warrior.

    I think they forget that Warrior is full melee, not really any other options for builds outside of not very useful troll builds. Yes, core is very strong right now, however they look right past all the hard CC nerfs, as well as sustain and passives that were a HUGE part of those builds. I also love that he plays boonbeast and is crying about this, it's amazing lol. He plays boonbeast and runs into a core warrior he can't beat and wants to use that as the reason the class as a whole should be able to keep it's broken mobility even AFTER huge nerfs to warrior and mobility nerfs to just about everything else as well.

    I am saying that the mobility nerfs on Thiefs are far from the ones on Ranger, Warrior also didn't get a 5s increase on their GS3, we are talking from 10 to 18, that is almost double the CD, what other skill got almost double the CD?

    Warrior has gunflame builds and i play melee Ranger too right now so? How is Ranger mobility "broken", we have 2 dashes, a Mesmer wins the range on pure gap closer with CD's up any time, a Mesmer can move about 4k range in 2,5 seconds.

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    No offense about but maybe rangers just not for you. If u main it and have been playing it for a decent amount of time and think its weak than maybe it's time to self realise cuz soulbeast is very very strong when played right and will remain so post patch competitively to other classes. Ur acting like ranger was only class to get hard nerfed which is obviously not the case. U class lost some mobility but still has great mobility after the change and on top gets to have the highest effective range to support its builds. Poor poor anput.

    I never said it was weak, i just think 18 seconds for a dash ability is over the top and beyond any other non-utility CD besides Rush which is only that CD because there are 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon, 15s would be more fair but 18s is ridiculous. All i care about is parties on Warclaws ruining my day by keeping me in combat infinitely with this nerf, just Swoop, i haven't complained about any of the other nerfs.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 7, 2020

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

    How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

    Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

    Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

    Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

    Warrior is often full melee class, outside of troll killshot builds, they need mobility to stay with a target. This is a bit OP right now because of warrior sustain and hard CC still hitting like a truck, however after the patch those hard CCs will be doing more or less 0 dmg and sustain will be going down as well. Soulbeast isn't hurting for mobility, they have some of the highest in the game for a class that can kite at 1,800 range, warrior can't do that. Mobility across the board was nerfed, guard GS LoF which is only 600 range, not 1,000 like soulbeast GS, is also seeing a CD increase to 15s.

    You might want to read the patch notes about OTHER classes as well. Soulbeast does indeed right now have to much mobility, after the patch with nerfs to hard CC, mobility and kiting are going to be just that much more powerful. And looking at everything else, the nerfs look inline with most others, we will have to wait for live to see how it all plays out in the game.

    How are the nerfs inline with Thieves and Mesmers which are the other mobile classes? I don't see any nerfs for them except 5 more seconds on Mes blink.

    The problem is that the Warclaw still has the same speed, going OOC when you see 3 poeple on cats going towards you while fighting a mob will be that much harder and this only helps ganking groups.

    Staff on mes saw an increased CD on Phase Retreat, increased CD on Blink, Mirage loses a dodge and as such doubles the CD of sword leap. For Thief, Death's Retreat saw a initiative cost increase, Withdraw saw a CD increase, along with other things and other initiative cost increases that effect all skill use on thief.

    So I will ask again, did you read the patch notes for any of the other classes?

    Warclaw was already talked about in the balance threads, they agree it is to powerful, and that a dodge will probably end up getting removed, and run speed will be the same across all areas with a possible over all reduction, people were asking for swiftness speed only. If that happens, then you would still be able to out run them. You also should not just be guaranteed escape because you are on soulbeast.

    Mirage loses a dodge which is true, but most i see don't use staff, the oneshot builds or condi builds, the Thiefs abilities can still be spammed to run away, the initiative increases only hurt when you actually want to use the mobility while fighting, if you play defensive for a bit you can still shortbow out of there right after, i say this as someone that plays staff Thief and doesn't get the vault nerf because i literally see no other staff thiefs, the rifle nerf only affects DE and i am more worried about shortbow.

    I don't play Mesmer so my knowledge on skill names is limmited but as someone that also plays Thief a lot the only nerfs that hurt a lot is vault to 6 and some cd increases like roll, nothing as bad as Swoop almost getting double the CD, heck, make it 15s, but 18 is just way too much on something that is just a dash.

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

    How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

    Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

    Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

    Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

    Warrior is often full melee class, outside of troll killshot builds, they need mobility to stay with a target. This is a bit OP right now because of warrior sustain and hard CC still hitting like a truck, however after the patch those hard CCs will be doing more or less 0 dmg and sustain will be going down as well. Soulbeast isn't hurting for mobility, they have some of the highest in the game for a class that can kite at 1,800 range, warrior can't do that. Mobility across the board was nerfed, guard GS LoF which is only 600 range, not 1,000 like soulbeast GS, is also seeing a CD increase to 15s.

    You might want to read the patch notes about OTHER classes as well. Soulbeast does indeed right now have to much mobility, after the patch with nerfs to hard CC, mobility and kiting are going to be just that much more powerful. And looking at everything else, the nerfs look inline with most others, we will have to wait for live to see how it all plays out in the game.

    How are the nerfs inline with Thieves and Mesmers which are the other mobile classes? I don't see any nerfs for them except 5 more seconds on Mes blink.

    The problem is that the Warclaw still has the same speed, going OOC when you see 3 poeple on cats going towards you while fighting a mob will be that much harder and this only helps ganking groups.

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

    How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

    Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

    Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

    Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

    Double swoop is 2400 range. Whirlwind attack+rush is 1650 range. Double swoop is more mobility per CD than WWA+Rush.

    Swoop is 2200 range, Warriors still have another weapon set in Dagger for spellbreaker to have a small dash too, Warrior was also never considered a mobility class and has other things, like stupid damage in core.

    @Tinnel.4369 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Tinnel.4369 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

    How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

    Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

    Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

    Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

    Where are these thieves with unlimited initiative you speak of?

    I am saying that they can still spam the same amount so their relative mobility goes up.

    The same amount isn't all that much and they're still left with the exact same options after they've blown that initiative. Except after the patch, turning and unloading a burst won't be an option. Shortbow mobility isn't what's wrong with thief.

    Soulbeast lasted the longest out of any class with a killer tool kit at their disposal. Cutting their mobility and sustain, especially relative to all the other class changes, on paper, doesn't seem bad imo. Looking at it with blinders on before you can even play it is just unnecessary stress.

    Im just imagining ganking groups on cats running me down and i have no mobility to not get chased and corpse jumped on. If Warclaw had swiftness speed i wouldn't mind as much, 18 seconds on just a dash is insane though, 15 would be more fair.

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    because ranger has very good ranged options, has access to stealth, and overall good mobility.
    while warrior is mostly full melee, has no way to stealth without others and has to be able to stick to their target, because thats the only way to apply pressure.
    you are comparing oranges with apples

    Except core warrior is way more broken atm.

    Stealth is also very limited, i don't use either smokescale or longbow.

    And what about thieves and mesmers?

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    because ranger has very good ranged options, has access to stealth, and overall good mobility.
    while warrior is mostly full melee, has no way to stealth without others and has to be able to stick to their target, because thats the only way to apply pressure.
    you are comparing oranges with apples

    Very much this^
    This post is a good example of why simply comparing one classes skill to ur own and thinking cuz their similar they should follow the same parameters is never a good way to try and argue a nerf or for a buff.

    Core war is infinitely better. And what about thieves and mesmers?

    In what regard is core war infinitely better than soulbeast? Ranger cant kite warriors so hard and have more or same amount of sustain atm.

    Its not my fault you dont play the strong stuff, longbow and smokescale are definately very very viable and just because YOU dont play those doesnt mean your mobility should get buffed, lol.

    Use the tools the game gives you. And if you dont use them, dont cry for buffs, seriously. Anet wont buff mobility, just because you dont like your stealth options.
    Imagine someone dares to like longbow AND smallscale and gets mobility buffs ontop, just because you need that with your special snowflake build. Oof. Nightmares.

    I was just answering about warrior, because i know warrior best and i do agree that thief, mesmer and warclaw mobility need to be toned down as they are right now.

    You are telling me that right now in the game you can outrun a warclaw? Well there you have your answer, mobility nerf WELL deserved, cant do that on warrior.

    Core warriors have way more sustain while being able to use Zerker gear and spike for stupid amounts of damage.

    I play Boonbeast with a greatsword axe and warhorn, how is that a bad build by any means? Not everyone plays glass damage builds. I easilly beat most glass rangers with this build as this build excells against glass builds, but any build that also has simillar sustain but way more damage, like core warrior, just wrecks it, all i can do is be on the defensive, kite, and not die as i don't get a chance to do enough damage.

    So u play soulbeast who has a way more effective and versatile ranged weapon with lb than any other class and for sure warrior and ur complaining that ur melee builds are also not superior to the class who SHOULD be the king of melee (warrior) as rangers are king of range. Cmon man u serious? I donno if I'd even put warrior ahead in melee compared to ranger though it definitely should be. With that said soulbeast as a whole has great mobility and the fact u chose to play a build that runs with less mobility than comparing it to classes running higher mobility builds is funny. If a warrior isnt running gs or bullscharge what crazy mobility does it have? Yeah.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 7, 2020

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

    How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

    Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

    Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

    Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

    Warrior is often full melee class, outside of troll killshot builds, they need mobility to stay with a target. This is a bit OP right now because of warrior sustain and hard CC still hitting like a truck, however after the patch those hard CCs will be doing more or less 0 dmg and sustain will be going down as well. Soulbeast isn't hurting for mobility, they have some of the highest in the game for a class that can kite at 1,800 range, warrior can't do that. Mobility across the board was nerfed, guard GS LoF which is only 600 range, not 1,000 like soulbeast GS, is also seeing a CD increase to 15s.

    You might want to read the patch notes about OTHER classes as well. Soulbeast does indeed right now have to much mobility, after the patch with nerfs to hard CC, mobility and kiting are going to be just that much more powerful. And looking at everything else, the nerfs look inline with most others, we will have to wait for live to see how it all plays out in the game.

    How are the nerfs inline with Thieves and Mesmers which are the other mobile classes? I don't see any nerfs for them except 5 more seconds on Mes blink.

    The problem is that the Warclaw still has the same speed, going OOC when you see 3 poeple on cats going towards you while fighting a mob will be that much harder and this only helps ganking groups.

    Staff on mes saw an increased CD on Phase Retreat, increased CD on Blink, Mirage loses a dodge and as such doubles the CD of sword leap. For Thief, Death's Retreat saw a initiative cost increase, Withdraw saw a CD increase, along with other things and other initiative cost increases that effect all skill use on thief.

    So I will ask again, did you read the patch notes for any of the other classes?

    Warclaw was already talked about in the balance threads, they agree it is to powerful, and that a dodge will probably end up getting removed, and run speed will be the same across all areas with a possible over all reduction, people were asking for swiftness speed only. If that happens, then you would still be able to out run them. You also should not just be guaranteed escape because you are on soulbeast.

    Mirage loses a dodge which is true, but most i see don't use staff, the oneshot builds or condi builds, the Thiefs abilities can still be spammed to run away, the initiative increases only hurt when you actually want to use the mobility while fighting, if you play defensive for a bit you can still shortbow out of there right after, i say this as someone that plays staff Thief and doesn't get the vault nerf because i literally see no other staff thiefs, the rifle nerf only affects DE and i am more worried about shortbow.

    I don't play Mesmer so my knowledge on skill names is limmited but as someone that also plays Thief a lot the only nerfs that hurt a lot is vault to 6 and some cd increases like roll, nothing as bad as Swoop almost getting double the CD, heck, make it 15s, but 18 is just way too much on something that is just a dash.

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

    How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

    Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

    Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

    Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

    Warrior is often full melee class, outside of troll killshot builds, they need mobility to stay with a target. This is a bit OP right now because of warrior sustain and hard CC still hitting like a truck, however after the patch those hard CCs will be doing more or less 0 dmg and sustain will be going down as well. Soulbeast isn't hurting for mobility, they have some of the highest in the game for a class that can kite at 1,800 range, warrior can't do that. Mobility across the board was nerfed, guard GS LoF which is only 600 range, not 1,000 like soulbeast GS, is also seeing a CD increase to 15s.

    You might want to read the patch notes about OTHER classes as well. Soulbeast does indeed right now have to much mobility, after the patch with nerfs to hard CC, mobility and kiting are going to be just that much more powerful. And looking at everything else, the nerfs look inline with most others, we will have to wait for live to see how it all plays out in the game.

    How are the nerfs inline with Thieves and Mesmers which are the other mobile classes? I don't see any nerfs for them except 5 more seconds on Mes blink.

    The problem is that the Warclaw still has the same speed, going OOC when you see 3 poeple on cats going towards you while fighting a mob will be that much harder and this only helps ganking groups.

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

    How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

    Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

    Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

    Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

    Double swoop is 2400 range. Whirlwind attack+rush is 1650 range. Double swoop is more mobility per CD than WWA+Rush.

    Swoop is 2200 range, Warriors still have another weapon set in Dagger for spellbreaker to have a small dash too, Warrior was also never considered a mobility class and has other things, like stupid damage in core.

    @Tinnel.4369 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Tinnel.4369 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

    How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

    Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

    Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

    Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

    Where are these thieves with unlimited initiative you speak of?

    I am saying that they can still spam the same amount so their relative mobility goes up.

    The same amount isn't all that much and they're still left with the exact same options after they've blown that initiative. Except after the patch, turning and unloading a burst won't be an option. Shortbow mobility isn't what's wrong with thief.

    Soulbeast lasted the longest out of any class with a killer tool kit at their disposal. Cutting their mobility and sustain, especially relative to all the other class changes, on paper, doesn't seem bad imo. Looking at it with blinders on before you can even play it is just unnecessary stress.

    Im just imagining ganking groups on cats running me down and i have no mobility to not get chased and corpse jumped on. If Warclaw had swiftness speed i wouldn't mind as much, 18 seconds on just a dash is insane though, 15 would be more fair.

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    because ranger has very good ranged options, has access to stealth, and overall good mobility.
    while warrior is mostly full melee, has no way to stealth without others and has to be able to stick to their target, because thats the only way to apply pressure.
    you are comparing oranges with apples

    Except core warrior is way more broken atm.

    Stealth is also very limited, i don't use either smokescale or longbow.

    And what about thieves and mesmers?

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    because ranger has very good ranged options, has access to stealth, and overall good mobility.
    while warrior is mostly full melee, has no way to stealth without others and has to be able to stick to their target, because thats the only way to apply pressure.
    you are comparing oranges with apples

    Very much this^
    This post is a good example of why simply comparing one classes skill to ur own and thinking cuz their similar they should follow the same parameters is never a good way to try and argue a nerf or for a buff.

    Core war is infinitely better. And what about thieves and mesmers?

    In what regard is core war infinitely better than soulbeast? Ranger cant kite warriors so hard and have more or same amount of sustain atm.

    Its not my fault you dont play the strong stuff, longbow and smokescale are definately very very viable and just because YOU dont play those doesnt mean your mobility should get buffed, lol.

    Use the tools the game gives you. And if you dont use them, dont cry for buffs, seriously. Anet wont buff mobility, just because you dont like your stealth options.
    Imagine someone dares to like longbow AND smallscale and gets mobility buffs ontop, just because you need that with your special snowflake build. Oof. Nightmares.

    I was just answering about warrior, because i know warrior best and i do agree that thief, mesmer and warclaw mobility need to be toned down as they are right now.

    You are telling me that right now in the game you can outrun a warclaw? Well there you have your answer, mobility nerf WELL deserved, cant do that on warrior.

    Core warriors have way more sustain while being able to use Zerker gear and spike for stupid amounts of damage.

    I play Boonbeast with a greatsword axe and warhorn, how is that a bad build by any means? Not everyone plays glass damage builds. I easilly beat most glass rangers with this build as this build excells against glass builds, but any build that also has simillar sustain but way more damage, like core warrior, just wrecks it, all i can do is be on the defensive, kite, and not die as i don't get a chance to do enough damage.

    All that sustain is contingent on actually hitting a foe, you would know this if you used your even better mobility and a Longbow to create a gap and spike the warrior down with Rapid Fire, hit him with Hunter's Shot, close in, weapon swap, and Maul him. GG Dead Warrior.

    Concerned about double EP plus double LS? Stay in LB and pew pew at 1800 range the first 10 seconds of the fight. Rapid Shot -> Hunter's Shot -> swap and close -> Maul. Dead Warrior.

    Like i said, i play Boonbeast, not glassbeast.

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Mirage loses a dodge which is true, but most i see don't use staff, the oneshot builds or condi builds, the Thiefs abilities can still be spammed to run away, the initiative increases only hurt when you actually want to use the mobility while fighting, if you play defensive for a bit you can still shortbow out of there right after, i say this as someone that plays staff Thief and doesn't get the vault nerf because i literally see no other staff thiefs, the rifle nerf only affects DE and i am more worried about shortbow.

    I don't play Mesmer so my knowledge on skill names is limmited but as someone that also plays Thief a lot the only nerfs that hurt a lot is vault to 6 and some cd increases like roll, nothing as bad as Swoop almost getting double the CD, heck, make it 15s, but 18 is just way too much on something that is just a dash.

    So, your reasoning goes from "show me the mobility nerfs on Thief and Mes" to after being shown the mobility nerfs on those two classes the goal post moves to "Ok, sure, but they still have mobility period". That about sum it up?

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    All that sustain is contingent on actually hitting a foe, you would know this if you used your even better mobility and a Longbow to create a gap and spike the warrior down with Rapid Fire, hit him with Hunter's Shot, close in, weapon swap, and Maul him. GG Dead Warrior.

    Concerned about double EP plus double LS? Stay in LB and pew pew at 1800 range the first 10 seconds of the fight. Rapid Shot -> Hunter's Shot -> swap and close -> Maul. Dead Warrior.

    I think they forget that Warrior is full melee, not really any other options for builds outside of not very useful troll builds. Yes, core is very strong right now, however they look right past all the hard CC nerfs, as well as sustain and passives that were a HUGE part of those builds. I also love that he plays boonbeast and is crying about this, it's amazing lol. He plays boonbeast and runs into a core warrior he can't beat and wants to use that as the reason the class as a whole should be able to keep it's broken mobility even AFTER huge nerfs to warrior and mobility nerfs to just about everything else as well.

    I am saying that the mobility nerfs on Thiefs are far from the ones on Ranger, Warrior also didn't get a 5s increase on their GS3, we are talking from 10 to 18, that is almost double the CD, what other skill got almost double the CD?

    Warrior has gunflame builds and i play melee Ranger too right now so? How is Ranger mobility "broken", we have 2 dashes, a Mesmer wins the range on pure gap closer with CD's up any time, a Mesmer can move about 4k range in 2,5 seconds.

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    No offense about but maybe rangers just not for you. If u main it and have been playing it for a decent amount of time and think its weak than maybe it's time to self realise cuz soulbeast is very very strong when played right and will remain so post patch competitively to other classes. Ur acting like ranger was only class to get hard nerfed which is obviously not the case. U class lost some mobility but still has great mobility after the change and on top gets to have the highest effective range to support its builds. Poor poor anput.

    I never said it was weak, i just think 18 seconds for a dash ability is over the top and beyond any other non-utility CD besides Rush which is only that CD because there are 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon, 15s would be more fair but 18s is ridiculous. All i care about is parties on Warclaws ruining my day by keeping me in combat infinitely with this nerf, just Swoop, i haven't complained about any of the other nerfs.

    Warrior needs that dash often to get into melee against kitting builds like soulbeast etc they cant just tear someone up at range like a slb can unless running the memest of meme gun zerker build which a slb would literally obliterate with their lb by comparison.

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

    How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

    Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

    Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

    Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

    Warrior is often full melee class, outside of troll killshot builds, they need mobility to stay with a target. This is a bit OP right now because of warrior sustain and hard CC still hitting like a truck, however after the patch those hard CCs will be doing more or less 0 dmg and sustain will be going down as well. Soulbeast isn't hurting for mobility, they have some of the highest in the game for a class that can kite at 1,800 range, warrior can't do that. Mobility across the board was nerfed, guard GS LoF which is only 600 range, not 1,000 like soulbeast GS, is also seeing a CD increase to 15s.

    You might want to read the patch notes about OTHER classes as well. Soulbeast does indeed right now have to much mobility, after the patch with nerfs to hard CC, mobility and kiting are going to be just that much more powerful. And looking at everything else, the nerfs look inline with most others, we will have to wait for live to see how it all plays out in the game.

    How are the nerfs inline with Thieves and Mesmers which are the other mobile classes? I don't see any nerfs for them except 5 more seconds on Mes blink.

    The problem is that the Warclaw still has the same speed, going OOC when you see 3 poeple on cats going towards you while fighting a mob will be that much harder and this only helps ganking groups.

    Staff on mes saw an increased CD on Phase Retreat, increased CD on Blink, Mirage loses a dodge and as such doubles the CD of sword leap. For Thief, Death's Retreat saw a initiative cost increase, Withdraw saw a CD increase, along with other things and other initiative cost increases that effect all skill use on thief.

    So I will ask again, did you read the patch notes for any of the other classes?

    Warclaw was already talked about in the balance threads, they agree it is to powerful, and that a dodge will probably end up getting removed, and run speed will be the same across all areas with a possible over all reduction, people were asking for swiftness speed only. If that happens, then you would still be able to out run them. You also should not just be guaranteed escape because you are on soulbeast.

    Mirage loses a dodge which is true, but most i see don't use staff, the oneshot builds or condi builds, the Thiefs abilities can still be spammed to run away, the initiative increases only hurt when you actually want to use the mobility while fighting, if you play defensive for a bit you can still shortbow out of there right after, i say this as someone that plays staff Thief and doesn't get the vault nerf because i literally see no other staff thiefs, the rifle nerf only affects DE and i am more worried about shortbow.

    I don't play Mesmer so my knowledge on skill names is limmited but as someone that also plays Thief a lot the only nerfs that hurt a lot is vault to 6 and some cd increases like roll, nothing as bad as Swoop almost getting double the CD, heck, make it 15s, but 18 is just way too much on something that is just a dash.

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

    How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

    Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

    Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

    Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

    Warrior is often full melee class, outside of troll killshot builds, they need mobility to stay with a target. This is a bit OP right now because of warrior sustain and hard CC still hitting like a truck, however after the patch those hard CCs will be doing more or less 0 dmg and sustain will be going down as well. Soulbeast isn't hurting for mobility, they have some of the highest in the game for a class that can kite at 1,800 range, warrior can't do that. Mobility across the board was nerfed, guard GS LoF which is only 600 range, not 1,000 like soulbeast GS, is also seeing a CD increase to 15s.

    You might want to read the patch notes about OTHER classes as well. Soulbeast does indeed right now have to much mobility, after the patch with nerfs to hard CC, mobility and kiting are going to be just that much more powerful. And looking at everything else, the nerfs look inline with most others, we will have to wait for live to see how it all plays out in the game.

    How are the nerfs inline with Thieves and Mesmers which are the other mobile classes? I don't see any nerfs for them except 5 more seconds on Mes blink.

    The problem is that the Warclaw still has the same speed, going OOC when you see 3 poeple on cats going towards you while fighting a mob will be that much harder and this only helps ganking groups.

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

    How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

    Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

    Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

    Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

    Double swoop is 2400 range. Whirlwind attack+rush is 1650 range. Double swoop is more mobility per CD than WWA+Rush.

    Swoop is 2200 range, Warriors still have another weapon set in Dagger for spellbreaker to have a small dash too, Warrior was also never considered a mobility class and has other things, like stupid damage in core.

    @Tinnel.4369 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Tinnel.4369 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

    How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

    Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

    Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

    Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

    Where are these thieves with unlimited initiative you speak of?

    I am saying that they can still spam the same amount so their relative mobility goes up.

    The same amount isn't all that much and they're still left with the exact same options after they've blown that initiative. Except after the patch, turning and unloading a burst won't be an option. Shortbow mobility isn't what's wrong with thief.

    Soulbeast lasted the longest out of any class with a killer tool kit at their disposal. Cutting their mobility and sustain, especially relative to all the other class changes, on paper, doesn't seem bad imo. Looking at it with blinders on before you can even play it is just unnecessary stress.

    Im just imagining ganking groups on cats running me down and i have no mobility to not get chased and corpse jumped on. If Warclaw had swiftness speed i wouldn't mind as much, 18 seconds on just a dash is insane though, 15 would be more fair.

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    because ranger has very good ranged options, has access to stealth, and overall good mobility.
    while warrior is mostly full melee, has no way to stealth without others and has to be able to stick to their target, because thats the only way to apply pressure.
    you are comparing oranges with apples

    Except core warrior is way more broken atm.

    Stealth is also very limited, i don't use either smokescale or longbow.

    And what about thieves and mesmers?

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    because ranger has very good ranged options, has access to stealth, and overall good mobility.
    while warrior is mostly full melee, has no way to stealth without others and has to be able to stick to their target, because thats the only way to apply pressure.
    you are comparing oranges with apples

    Very much this^
    This post is a good example of why simply comparing one classes skill to ur own and thinking cuz their similar they should follow the same parameters is never a good way to try and argue a nerf or for a buff.

    Core war is infinitely better. And what about thieves and mesmers?

    In what regard is core war infinitely better than soulbeast? Ranger cant kite warriors so hard and have more or same amount of sustain atm.

    Its not my fault you dont play the strong stuff, longbow and smokescale are definately very very viable and just because YOU dont play those doesnt mean your mobility should get buffed, lol.

    Use the tools the game gives you. And if you dont use them, dont cry for buffs, seriously. Anet wont buff mobility, just because you dont like your stealth options.
    Imagine someone dares to like longbow AND smallscale and gets mobility buffs ontop, just because you need that with your special snowflake build. Oof. Nightmares.

    I was just answering about warrior, because i know warrior best and i do agree that thief, mesmer and warclaw mobility need to be toned down as they are right now.

    You are telling me that right now in the game you can outrun a warclaw? Well there you have your answer, mobility nerf WELL deserved, cant do that on warrior.

    Core warriors have way more sustain while being able to use Zerker gear and spike for stupid amounts of damage.

    I play Boonbeast with a greatsword axe and warhorn, how is that a bad build by any means? Not everyone plays glass damage builds. I easilly beat most glass rangers with this build as this build excells against glass builds, but any build that also has simillar sustain but way more damage, like core warrior, just wrecks it, all i can do is be on the defensive, kite, and not die as i don't get a chance to do enough damage.

    I never said you were playing a bad build, but if you think you need more means to kite, then use those that you got kitten, dont cry for more if your class has them already.

    So you are already winning vs those glass builds buz get cou tered by some others, so you want to win vs everyone, ok got it.
    You dont want to have actual balance, you want to have and OP class that tears through everything. No real point in arguing much further.

    And you are still crying about warriors gs5 for getting less cd nerf than ranger gs... You still dont understand that you cant compare 2 classes completely linear like that.
    Warrior has other disadvantages that ranger doesnt have (they were already named several times) and that justifies warrior having a little bit less cd on gapcloser.

    Also, if you want to compare those skills directly, swoop is a frickin dodge, while rush basically locks you in that animation while you eat all the dmg they throw at you. How is that fair, eh?

    You have like 3 or 4 ppl talking against you and nobody really arguing for you, dont you think that might be a sign that you might want to think about it some more before you keep arguing, or do you think that we all have no idea about the game and you are the one with the only understanding of the game?

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 7, 2020

    Post patch with not only might nerf but nerf to the mmr trait with a hard nerf to healing sig ranger may very well have more sustain than a warrior lmao a ranger more sustainable than warrior and ur mentioning warriors sustain in ur arguments? I'd be careful man, u dont want to draw attention to rangers possible sustain post patch lol.

  • Kovu.7560Kovu.7560 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 7, 2020

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    You have like 3 or 4 ppl talking against you and nobody really arguing for you

    Oh, we're here. We're just tired of rehashing the same arguments over and over again year-in-and-year-out. In the end, 8-out-of-9 players approve of ranger nerfs.

    As a ranger main, warrior is basically my kryptonite, but as it seems like warrior, ranger and elementalist saw the biggest nerfs and I'm not actually all that bummed about cooldown increases to the swoops. Those cooldowns are still fairly short, it is what it is. Honestly, its the continued nerfs to druid healing, core ranger, as well as weapons and utilities never seen in this gamemode that gets me.

    Like, if Druid healing is overpowered in pve, nerf it in pve -- not here. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    ~ Kovu

    Ranger, Necromancer, Fort Aspenwood.

  • high ranged damage with strong mobility is one of the worst balance mistakes

    Te lazla otstara.

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 7, 2020

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    You have like 3 or 4 ppl talking against you and nobody really arguing for you

    Oh, we're here. We're just tired of rehashing the same arguments over and over again year-in-and-year-out. In the end, 8-out-of-9 players approve of ranger nerfs.

    As a ranger main, warrior is basically my kryptonite, but as it seems like warrior, ranger and elementalist saw the biggest nerfs and I'm not actually all that bummed about cooldown increases to the swoops. Those cooldowns are still fairly short, it is what it is. Honestly, its the continued nerfs to druid healing, core ranger, as well as weapons and utilities never seen in this gamemode that gets me.

    Like, if Druid healing is overpowered in pve, nerf it in pve -- not here. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    ~ Kovu

    In what world is warrior your kryptonite???
    Im serious, are we playing the same effing game? Sure you might not play a optimal build to fight warriors, but there sure as kitten are ranger builds that stomp warrior and laugh at him while doing it, in no world in warrior the counter to ranger kitten.

    Yea, here we are again, multiple ppl trying to tell him why ranger has certain advantages over warrior, that justify longer cds on swoop, because they simply exist, no questions asked.

    He has literally no argument, always just repeats "what about mesmer or thief" or "core war wrecks my build" no real explanation given and no understanding of the fact that other builds can wreck that core warrior.

  • Kovu.7560Kovu.7560 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    You have like 3 or 4 ppl talking against you and nobody really arguing for you

    Oh, we're here. We're just tired of rehashing the same arguments over and over again year-in-and-year-out. In the end, 8-out-of-9 players approve of ranger nerfs.

    As a ranger main, warrior is basically my kryptonite, but as it seems like warrior, ranger and elementalist saw the biggest nerfs and I'm not actually all that bummed about cooldown increases to the swoops. Those cooldowns are still fairly short, it is what it is. Honestly, its the continued nerfs to druid healing, core ranger, as well as weapons and utilities never seen in this gamemode that gets me.

    Like, if Druid healing is overpowered in pve, nerf it in pve -- not here. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    ~ Kovu

    In what world is warrior your kryptonite???
    Im serious, are we playing the same effing game? Sure you might not play a optimal build to fight warriors, but there sure as kitten are ranger builds that stomp warrior and laugh at him while doing it, in no world in warrior the counter to ranger kitten.

    Yea, here we are again, multiple ppl trying to tell him why ranger has certain advantages over warrior, that justify longer cds on swoop, because they simply exist, no questions asked.

    He has literally no argument, always just repeats "what about mesmer or thief" or "core war wrecks my build" no real explanation given and no understanding of the fact that other builds can wreck that core warrior.

    Warrior mobility is only somewhat weaker than ranger's and generally good enough to catch rangers that initially commit to a fight, they have several tools to slow down rangers trying to run away via cripple, their damage in melee pre-patch dwarfs anything a ranger can put, much of that damage (pre-patch) coming attached to stuns, they have enough uptime on projectile reflection to counter ranged spam until they close the gap, arguably more damage mitigation, a larger health pool, higher base armor/defense, better stun break access and prevention, passive and active regeneration, the ability to be immune to critical hits (which they can cycle into their other immunities for nice power-damage mitigation for a longer duration) and some of the larger damage coefficients in the game (whereas rangers have lower coefficients due to their pets supposedly significantly contributing to the fight).

    I'm not saying warriors are universally better at everything, but there are certainly things they are better at.

    ~ Kovu

    Ranger, Necromancer, Fort Aspenwood.

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    You have like 3 or 4 ppl talking against you and nobody really arguing for you

    Oh, we're here. We're just tired of rehashing the same arguments over and over again year-in-and-year-out. In the end, 8-out-of-9 players approve of ranger nerfs.

    As a ranger main, warrior is basically my kryptonite, but as it seems like warrior, ranger and elementalist saw the biggest nerfs and I'm not actually all that bummed about cooldown increases to the swoops. Those cooldowns are still fairly short, it is what it is. Honestly, its the continued nerfs to druid healing, core ranger, as well as weapons and utilities never seen in this gamemode that gets me.

    Like, if Druid healing is overpowered in pve, nerf it in pve -- not here. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    ~ Kovu

    In what world is warrior your kryptonite???
    Im serious, are we playing the same effing game? Sure you might not play a optimal build to fight warriors, but there sure as kitten are ranger builds that stomp warrior and laugh at him while doing it, in no world in warrior the counter to ranger kitten.

    Yea, here we are again, multiple ppl trying to tell him why ranger has certain advantages over warrior, that justify longer cds on swoop, because they simply exist, no questions asked.

    He has literally no argument, always just repeats "what about mesmer or thief" or "core war wrecks my build" no real explanation given and no understanding of the fact that other builds can wreck that core warrior.

    Warrior mobility is only somewhat weaker than ranger's and generally good enough to catch rangers that initially commit to a fight, they have several tools to slow down rangers trying to run away via cripple, their damage in melee pre-patch dwarfs anything a ranger can put, much of that damage (pre-patch) coming attached to stuns, they have enough uptime on projectile reflection to counter ranged spam until they close the gap, arguably more damage mitigation, a larger health pool, higher base armor/defense, better stun break access and prevention, passive and active regeneration, the ability to be immune to critical hits (which they can cycle into their other immunities for nice power-damage mitigation for a longer duration) and some of the larger damage coefficients in the game (whereas rangers have lower coefficients due to their pets supposedly significantly contributing to the fight).

    I'm not saying warriors are universally better at everything, but there are certainly things they are better at.

    ~ Kovu

    You said warrior is the kryptonite to ranger which highly indicates a hard counter, which warrior just isnt.

    A hardcounter to warrior would be like dragon hunter vs warrior, which definately isnt the case in a warrior vs ranger.

  • Kovu.7560Kovu.7560 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    You have like 3 or 4 ppl talking against you and nobody really arguing for you

    Oh, we're here. We're just tired of rehashing the same arguments over and over again year-in-and-year-out. In the end, 8-out-of-9 players approve of ranger nerfs.

    As a ranger main, warrior is basically my kryptonite, but as it seems like warrior, ranger and elementalist saw the biggest nerfs and I'm not actually all that bummed about cooldown increases to the swoops. Those cooldowns are still fairly short, it is what it is. Honestly, its the continued nerfs to druid healing, core ranger, as well as weapons and utilities never seen in this gamemode that gets me.

    Like, if Druid healing is overpowered in pve, nerf it in pve -- not here. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    ~ Kovu

    In what world is warrior your kryptonite???
    Im serious, are we playing the same effing game? Sure you might not play a optimal build to fight warriors, but there sure as kitten are ranger builds that stomp warrior and laugh at him while doing it, in no world in warrior the counter to ranger kitten.

    Yea, here we are again, multiple ppl trying to tell him why ranger has certain advantages over warrior, that justify longer cds on swoop, because they simply exist, no questions asked.

    He has literally no argument, always just repeats "what about mesmer or thief" or "core war wrecks my build" no real explanation given and no understanding of the fact that other builds can wreck that core warrior.

    Warrior mobility is only somewhat weaker than ranger's and generally good enough to catch rangers that initially commit to a fight, they have several tools to slow down rangers trying to run away via cripple, their damage in melee pre-patch dwarfs anything a ranger can put, much of that damage (pre-patch) coming attached to stuns, they have enough uptime on projectile reflection to counter ranged spam until they close the gap, arguably more damage mitigation, a larger health pool, higher base armor/defense, better stun break access and prevention, passive and active regeneration, the ability to be immune to critical hits (which they can cycle into their other immunities for nice power-damage mitigation for a longer duration) and some of the larger damage coefficients in the game (whereas rangers have lower coefficients due to their pets supposedly significantly contributing to the fight).

    I'm not saying warriors are universally better at everything, but there are certainly things they are better at.

    ~ Kovu

    You said warrior is the kryptonite to ranger which highly indicates a hard counter, which warrior just isnt.

    A hardcounter to warrior would be like dragon hunter vs warrior, which definately isnt the case in a warrior vs ranger.

    My kryptonite, as in me personally for the build I run. If I rolled condi I'd probably have better odds, or I could tank up on boonbeast and force a stalemate.

    ~ Kovu

    Ranger, Necromancer, Fort Aspenwood.

  • @Justine.6351 said:
    No,
    Shadow step is the thief's profession mechanic.

    And steal, initiative, stealth, evade, damage, ... but probably not laserbeams.

    Yes. Everyone else got their profession mechanics nerfed again and again, filthy thieves should also.

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    You have like 3 or 4 ppl talking against you and nobody really arguing for you

    Oh, we're here. We're just tired of rehashing the same arguments over and over again year-in-and-year-out. In the end, 8-out-of-9 players approve of ranger nerfs.

    As a ranger main, warrior is basically my kryptonite, but as it seems like warrior, ranger and elementalist saw the biggest nerfs and I'm not actually all that bummed about cooldown increases to the swoops. Those cooldowns are still fairly short, it is what it is. Honestly, its the continued nerfs to druid healing, core ranger, as well as weapons and utilities never seen in this gamemode that gets me.

    Like, if Druid healing is overpowered in pve, nerf it in pve -- not here. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    ~ Kovu

    In what world is warrior your kryptonite???
    Im serious, are we playing the same effing game? Sure you might not play a optimal build to fight warriors, but there sure as kitten are ranger builds that stomp warrior and laugh at him while doing it, in no world in warrior the counter to ranger kitten.

    Yea, here we are again, multiple ppl trying to tell him why ranger has certain advantages over warrior, that justify longer cds on swoop, because they simply exist, no questions asked.

    He has literally no argument, always just repeats "what about mesmer or thief" or "core war wrecks my build" no real explanation given and no understanding of the fact that other builds can wreck that core warrior.

    Warrior mobility is only somewhat weaker than ranger's and generally good enough to catch rangers that initially commit to a fight, they have several tools to slow down rangers trying to run away via cripple, their damage in melee pre-patch dwarfs anything a ranger can put, much of that damage (pre-patch) coming attached to stuns, they have enough uptime on projectile reflection to counter ranged spam until they close the gap, arguably more damage mitigation, a larger health pool, higher base armor/defense, better stun break access and prevention, passive and active regeneration, the ability to be immune to critical hits (which they can cycle into their other immunities for nice power-damage mitigation for a longer duration) and some of the larger damage coefficients in the game (whereas rangers have lower coefficients due to their pets supposedly significantly contributing to the fight).

    I'm not saying warriors are universally better at everything, but there are certainly things they are better at.

    ~ Kovu

    You said warrior is the kryptonite to ranger which highly indicates a hard counter, which warrior just isnt.

    A hardcounter to warrior would be like dragon hunter vs warrior, which definately isnt the case in a warrior vs ranger.

    My kryptonite, as in me personally for the build I run. If I rolled condi I'd probably have better odds, or I could tank up on boonbeast and force a stalemate.

    ~ Kovu

    Eveb if you rolled a propet longbiw build youd probably have much better odds

  • Kovu.7560Kovu.7560 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 8, 2020

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    You have like 3 or 4 ppl talking against you and nobody really arguing for you

    Oh, we're here. We're just tired of rehashing the same arguments over and over again year-in-and-year-out. In the end, 8-out-of-9 players approve of ranger nerfs.

    As a ranger main, warrior is basically my kryptonite, but as it seems like warrior, ranger and elementalist saw the biggest nerfs and I'm not actually all that bummed about cooldown increases to the swoops. Those cooldowns are still fairly short, it is what it is. Honestly, its the continued nerfs to druid healing, core ranger, as well as weapons and utilities never seen in this gamemode that gets me.

    Like, if Druid healing is overpowered in pve, nerf it in pve -- not here. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    ~ Kovu

    In what world is warrior your kryptonite???
    Im serious, are we playing the same effing game? Sure you might not play a optimal build to fight warriors, but there sure as kitten are ranger builds that stomp warrior and laugh at him while doing it, in no world in warrior the counter to ranger kitten.

    Yea, here we are again, multiple ppl trying to tell him why ranger has certain advantages over warrior, that justify longer cds on swoop, because they simply exist, no questions asked.

    He has literally no argument, always just repeats "what about mesmer or thief" or "core war wrecks my build" no real explanation given and no understanding of the fact that other builds can wreck that core warrior.

    Warrior mobility is only somewhat weaker than ranger's and generally good enough to catch rangers that initially commit to a fight, they have several tools to slow down rangers trying to run away via cripple, their damage in melee pre-patch dwarfs anything a ranger can put, much of that damage (pre-patch) coming attached to stuns, they have enough uptime on projectile reflection to counter ranged spam until they close the gap, arguably more damage mitigation, a larger health pool, higher base armor/defense, better stun break access and prevention, passive and active regeneration, the ability to be immune to critical hits (which they can cycle into their other immunities for nice power-damage mitigation for a longer duration) and some of the larger damage coefficients in the game (whereas rangers have lower coefficients due to their pets supposedly significantly contributing to the fight).

    I'm not saying warriors are universally better at everything, but there are certainly things they are better at.

    ~ Kovu

    You said warrior is the kryptonite to ranger which highly indicates a hard counter, which warrior just isnt.

    A hardcounter to warrior would be like dragon hunter vs warrior, which definately isnt the case in a warrior vs ranger.

    My kryptonite, as in me personally for the build I run. If I rolled condi I'd probably have better odds, or I could tank up on boonbeast and force a stalemate.

    ~ Kovu

    Eveb if you rolled a propet longbiw build youd probably have much better odds

    The main comparison of this thread seems to be how the OP's concerns with regard to mobility are invalid because they're "comparing apples to oranges", and while that may or may not be true everyone is busy talking about the strengths of the apple (ranger) and not of that of the orange (warrior). I thought I'd pipe in and talk about the orange for a little bit.
    But sure, disregard everything I mentioned in a previous post about how warriors can literally tank and regen power damage for days and reflect projectiles and assume pewpew to be a suitable counter. If you want to think that rangers are somehow omnipotent, I honestly can't stop you.

    You guys can continue discussing the whole swoop nerf with Anput, I couldn't be kitten about that particular change.

    ~ Kovu

    Ranger, Necromancer, Fort Aspenwood.

  • EremiteAngel.9765EremiteAngel.9765 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    cries in necro

    I’m having popcorn watching them go bonkers over mobility nerfs that should have happened Long ago.
    HOT mobility was still in the acceptable range.
    POF mobility was way over the top for some classes.

    I enjoyed fighting them though.
    Those Soulbeasts and Deadeyes.
    Ultimate challenge for Necros in open field fights.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Me a Necro

    Haha, check out my wheelchair bro.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • Anput.4620Anput.4620 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    You have like 3 or 4 ppl talking against you and nobody really arguing for you

    Oh, we're here. We're just tired of rehashing the same arguments over and over again year-in-and-year-out. In the end, 8-out-of-9 players approve of ranger nerfs.

    As a ranger main, warrior is basically my kryptonite, but as it seems like warrior, ranger and elementalist saw the biggest nerfs and I'm not actually all that bummed about cooldown increases to the swoops. Those cooldowns are still fairly short, it is what it is. Honestly, its the continued nerfs to druid healing, core ranger, as well as weapons and utilities never seen in this gamemode that gets me.

    Like, if Druid healing is overpowered in pve, nerf it in pve -- not here. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    ~ Kovu

    In what world is warrior your kryptonite???
    Im serious, are we playing the same effing game? Sure you might not play a optimal build to fight warriors, but there sure as kitten are ranger builds that stomp warrior and laugh at him while doing it, in no world in warrior the counter to ranger kitten.

    Yea, here we are again, multiple ppl trying to tell him why ranger has certain advantages over warrior, that justify longer cds on swoop, because they simply exist, no questions asked.

    He has literally no argument, always just repeats "what about mesmer or thief" or "core war wrecks my build" no real explanation given and no understanding of the fact that other builds can wreck that core warrior.

    Warrior mobility is only somewhat weaker than ranger's and generally good enough to catch rangers that initially commit to a fight, they have several tools to slow down rangers trying to run away via cripple, their damage in melee pre-patch dwarfs anything a ranger can put, much of that damage (pre-patch) coming attached to stuns, they have enough uptime on projectile reflection to counter ranged spam until they close the gap, arguably more damage mitigation, a larger health pool, higher base armor/defense, better stun break access and prevention, passive and active regeneration, the ability to be immune to critical hits (which they can cycle into their other immunities for nice power-damage mitigation for a longer duration) and some of the larger damage coefficients in the game (whereas rangers have lower coefficients due to their pets supposedly significantly contributing to the fight).

    I'm not saying warriors are universally better at everything, but there are certainly things they are better at.

    ~ Kovu

    You said warrior is the kryptonite to ranger which highly indicates a hard counter, which warrior just isnt.

    A hardcounter to warrior would be like dragon hunter vs warrior, which definately isnt the case in a warrior vs ranger.

    My kryptonite, as in me personally for the build I run. If I rolled condi I'd probably have better odds, or I could tank up on boonbeast and force a stalemate.

    ~ Kovu

    Eveb if you rolled a propet longbiw build youd probably have much better odds

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    You have like 3 or 4 ppl talking against you and nobody really arguing for you

    Oh, we're here. We're just tired of rehashing the same arguments over and over again year-in-and-year-out. In the end, 8-out-of-9 players approve of ranger nerfs.

    As a ranger main, warrior is basically my kryptonite, but as it seems like warrior, ranger and elementalist saw the biggest nerfs and I'm not actually all that bummed about cooldown increases to the swoops. Those cooldowns are still fairly short, it is what it is. Honestly, its the continued nerfs to druid healing, core ranger, as well as weapons and utilities never seen in this gamemode that gets me.

    Like, if Druid healing is overpowered in pve, nerf it in pve -- not here. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    ~ Kovu

    In what world is warrior your kryptonite???
    Im serious, are we playing the same effing game? Sure you might not play a optimal build to fight warriors, but there sure as kitten are ranger builds that stomp warrior and laugh at him while doing it, in no world in warrior the counter to ranger kitten.

    Yea, here we are again, multiple ppl trying to tell him why ranger has certain advantages over warrior, that justify longer cds on swoop, because they simply exist, no questions asked.

    He has literally no argument, always just repeats "what about mesmer or thief" or "core war wrecks my build" no real explanation given and no understanding of the fact that other builds can wreck that core warrior.

    Warrior mobility is only somewhat weaker than ranger's and generally good enough to catch rangers that initially commit to a fight, they have several tools to slow down rangers trying to run away via cripple, their damage in melee pre-patch dwarfs anything a ranger can put, much of that damage (pre-patch) coming attached to stuns, they have enough uptime on projectile reflection to counter ranged spam until they close the gap, arguably more damage mitigation, a larger health pool, higher base armor/defense, better stun break access and prevention, passive and active regeneration, the ability to be immune to critical hits (which they can cycle into their other immunities for nice power-damage mitigation for a longer duration) and some of the larger damage coefficients in the game (whereas rangers have lower coefficients due to their pets supposedly significantly contributing to the fight).

    I'm not saying warriors are universally better at everything, but there are certainly things they are better at.

    ~ Kovu

    You said warrior is the kryptonite to ranger which highly indicates a hard counter, which warrior just isnt.

    A hardcounter to warrior would be like dragon hunter vs warrior, which definately isnt the case in a warrior vs ranger.

    My kryptonite, as in me personally for the build I run. If I rolled condi I'd probably have better odds, or I could tank up on boonbeast and force a stalemate.

    ~ Kovu

    Eveb if you rolled a propet longbiw build youd probably have much better odds

    W> @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    You have like 3 or 4 ppl talking against you and nobody really arguing for you

    Oh, we're here. We're just tired of rehashing the same arguments over and over again year-in-and-year-out. In the end, 8-out-of-9 players approve of ranger nerfs.

    As a ranger main, warrior is basically my kryptonite, but as it seems like warrior, ranger and elementalist saw the biggest nerfs and I'm not actually all that bummed about cooldown increases to the swoops. Those cooldowns are still fairly short, it is what it is. Honestly, its the continued nerfs to druid healing, core ranger, as well as weapons and utilities never seen in this gamemode that gets me.

    Like, if Druid healing is overpowered in pve, nerf it in pve -- not here. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    ~ Kovu

    In what world is warrior your kryptonite???
    Im serious, are we playing the same effing game? Sure you might not play a optimal build to fight warriors, but there sure as kitten are ranger builds that stomp warrior and laugh at him while doing it, in no world in warrior the counter to ranger kitten.

    Yea, here we are again, multiple ppl trying to tell him why ranger has certain advantages over warrior, that justify longer cds on swoop, because they simply exist, no questions asked.

    He has literally no argument, always just repeats "what about mesmer or thief" or "core war wrecks my build" no real explanation given and no understanding of the fact that other builds can wreck that core warrior.

    Warrior mobility is only somewhat weaker than ranger's and generally good enough to catch rangers that initially commit to a fight, they have several tools to slow down rangers trying to run away via cripple, their damage in melee pre-patch dwarfs anything a ranger can put, much of that damage (pre-patch) coming attached to stuns, they have enough uptime on projectile reflection to counter ranged spam until they close the gap, arguably more damage mitigation, a larger health pool, higher base armor/defense, better stun break access and prevention, passive and active regeneration, the ability to be immune to critical hits (which they can cycle into their other immunities for nice power-damage mitigation for a longer duration) and some of the larger damage coefficients in the game (whereas rangers have lower coefficients due to their pets supposedly significantly contributing to the fight).

    I'm not saying warriors are universally better at everything, but there are certainly things they are better at.

    ~ Kovu

    You said warrior is the kryptonite to ranger which highly indicates a hard counter, which warrior just isnt.

    A hardcounter to warrior would be like dragon hunter vs warrior, which definately isnt the case in a warrior vs ranger.

    My kryptonite, as in me personally for the build I run. If I rolled condi I'd probably have better odds, or I could tank up on boonbeast and force a stalemate.

    ~ Kovu

    Eveb if you rolled a propet longbiw build youd probably have much better odds

    Why is LB literally the only valid build to you lol.

    I also mainly care about my mobility relative to a Warclaw as that is important to not get ganked, 15s cd on swoop would be fine if Warclaw didn't exist.

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

    How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

    Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

    Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

    Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

    Warrior is often full melee class, outside of troll killshot builds, they need mobility to stay with a target. This is a bit OP right now because of warrior sustain and hard CC still hitting like a truck, however after the patch those hard CCs will be doing more or less 0 dmg and sustain will be going down as well. Soulbeast isn't hurting for mobility, they have some of the highest in the game for a class that can kite at 1,800 range, warrior can't do that. Mobility across the board was nerfed, guard GS LoF which is only 600 range, not 1,000 like soulbeast GS, is also seeing a CD increase to 15s.

    You might want to read the patch notes about OTHER classes as well. Soulbeast does indeed right now have to much mobility, after the patch with nerfs to hard CC, mobility and kiting are going to be just that much more powerful. And looking at everything else, the nerfs look inline with most others, we will have to wait for live to see how it all plays out in the game.

    How are the nerfs inline with Thieves and Mesmers which are the other mobile classes? I don't see any nerfs for them except 5 more seconds on Mes blink.

    The problem is that the Warclaw still has the same speed, going OOC when you see 3 poeple on cats going towards you while fighting a mob will be that much harder and this only helps ganking groups.

    Staff on mes saw an increased CD on Phase Retreat, increased CD on Blink, Mirage loses a dodge and as such doubles the CD of sword leap. For Thief, Death's Retreat saw a initiative cost increase, Withdraw saw a CD increase, along with other things and other initiative cost increases that effect all skill use on thief.

    So I will ask again, did you read the patch notes for any of the other classes?

    Warclaw was already talked about in the balance threads, they agree it is to powerful, and that a dodge will probably end up getting removed, and run speed will be the same across all areas with a possible over all reduction, people were asking for swiftness speed only. If that happens, then you would still be able to out run them. You also should not just be guaranteed escape because you are on soulbeast.

    Mirage loses a dodge which is true, but most i see don't use staff, the oneshot builds or condi builds, the Thiefs abilities can still be spammed to run away, the initiative increases only hurt when you actually want to use the mobility while fighting, if you play defensive for a bit you can still shortbow out of there right after, i say this as someone that plays staff Thief and doesn't get the vault nerf because i literally see no other staff thiefs, the rifle nerf only affects DE and i am more worried about shortbow.

    I don't play Mesmer so my knowledge on skill names is limmited but as someone that also plays Thief a lot the only nerfs that hurt a lot is vault to 6 and some cd increases like roll, nothing as bad as Swoop almost getting double the CD, heck, make it 15s, but 18 is just way too much on something that is just a dash.

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

    How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

    Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

    Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

    Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

    Warrior is often full melee class, outside of troll killshot builds, they need mobility to stay with a target. This is a bit OP right now because of warrior sustain and hard CC still hitting like a truck, however after the patch those hard CCs will be doing more or less 0 dmg and sustain will be going down as well. Soulbeast isn't hurting for mobility, they have some of the highest in the game for a class that can kite at 1,800 range, warrior can't do that. Mobility across the board was nerfed, guard GS LoF which is only 600 range, not 1,000 like soulbeast GS, is also seeing a CD increase to 15s.

    You might want to read the patch notes about OTHER classes as well. Soulbeast does indeed right now have to much mobility, after the patch with nerfs to hard CC, mobility and kiting are going to be just that much more powerful. And looking at everything else, the nerfs look inline with most others, we will have to wait for live to see how it all plays out in the game.

    How are the nerfs inline with Thieves and Mesmers which are the other mobile classes? I don't see any nerfs for them except 5 more seconds on Mes blink.

    The problem is that the Warclaw still has the same speed, going OOC when you see 3 poeple on cats going towards you while fighting a mob will be that much harder and this only helps ganking groups.

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

    How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

    Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

    Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

    Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

    Double swoop is 2400 range. Whirlwind attack+rush is 1650 range. Double swoop is more mobility per CD than WWA+Rush.

    Swoop is 2200 range, Warriors still have another weapon set in Dagger for spellbreaker to have a small dash too, Warrior was also never considered a mobility class and has other things, like stupid damage in core.

    @Tinnel.4369 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Tinnel.4369 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

    How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

    Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

    Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

    Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

    Where are these thieves with unlimited initiative you speak of?

    I am saying that they can still spam the same amount so their relative mobility goes up.

    The same amount isn't all that much and they're still left with the exact same options after they've blown that initiative. Except after the patch, turning and unloading a burst won't be an option. Shortbow mobility isn't what's wrong with thief.

    Soulbeast lasted the longest out of any class with a killer tool kit at their disposal. Cutting their mobility and sustain, especially relative to all the other class changes, on paper, doesn't seem bad imo. Looking at it with blinders on before you can even play it is just unnecessary stress.

    Im just imagining ganking groups on cats running me down and i have no mobility to not get chased and corpse jumped on. If Warclaw had swiftness speed i wouldn't mind as much, 18 seconds on just a dash is insane though, 15 would be more fair.

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    because ranger has very good ranged options, has access to stealth, and overall good mobility.
    while warrior is mostly full melee, has no way to stealth without others and has to be able to stick to their target, because thats the only way to apply pressure.
    you are comparing oranges with apples

    Except core warrior is way more broken atm.

    Stealth is also very limited, i don't use either smokescale or longbow.

    And what about thieves and mesmers?

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    because ranger has very good ranged options, has access to stealth, and overall good mobility.
    while warrior is mostly full melee, has no way to stealth without others and has to be able to stick to their target, because thats the only way to apply pressure.
    you are comparing oranges with apples

    Very much this^
    This post is a good example of why simply comparing one classes skill to ur own and thinking cuz their similar they should follow the same parameters is never a good way to try and argue a nerf or for a buff.

    Core war is infinitely better. And what about thieves and mesmers?

    In what regard is core war infinitely better than soulbeast? Ranger cant kite warriors so hard and have more or same amount of sustain atm.

    Its not my fault you dont play the strong stuff, longbow and smokescale are definately very very viable and just because YOU dont play those doesnt mean your mobility should get buffed, lol.

    Use the tools the game gives you. And if you dont use them, dont cry for buffs, seriously. Anet wont buff mobility, just because you dont like your stealth options.
    Imagine someone dares to like longbow AND smallscale and gets mobility buffs ontop, just because you need that with your special snowflake build. Oof. Nightmares.

    I was just answering about warrior, because i know warrior best and i do agree that thief, mesmer and warclaw mobility need to be toned down as they are right now.

    You are telling me that right now in the game you can outrun a warclaw? Well there you have your answer, mobility nerf WELL deserved, cant do that on warrior.

    Core warriors have way more sustain while being able to use Zerker gear and spike for stupid amounts of damage.

    I play Boonbeast with a greatsword axe and warhorn, how is that a bad build by any means? Not everyone plays glass damage builds. I easilly beat most glass rangers with this build as this build excells against glass builds, but any build that also has simillar sustain but way more damage, like core warrior, just wrecks it, all i can do is be on the defensive, kite, and not die as i don't get a chance to do enough damage.

    So u play soulbeast who has a way more effective and versatile ranged weapon with lb than any other class and for sure warrior and ur complaining that ur melee builds are also not superior to the class who SHOULD be the king of melee (warrior) as rangers are king of range. Cmon man u serious? I donno if I'd even put warrior ahead in melee compared to ranger though it definitely should be. With that said soulbeast as a whole has great mobility and the fact u chose to play a build that runs with less mobility than comparing it to classes running higher mobility builds is funny. If a warrior isnt running gs or bullscharge what crazy mobility does it have? Yeah.

    How am i running less mobility? My build still has double swoop.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 8, 2020

    So if ur running double swoop then ur mobility is more than sufficient with ur effective range.

  • Anput.4620Anput.4620 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 9, 2020

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    So if ur running double swoop then ur mobility is more than sufficient with ur effective range.

    At the moment, but with 18s CD it will be bad, i already have trouble catching Thieves with their shadowsteps, after this Warrior will easilly outmobility Ranger and Ranger won't even want to try to keep up with Thieves, also range totally depends on the build, my highest range comes from my throwing axe in the build i play.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    So if ur running double swoop then ur mobility is more than sufficient with ur effective range.

    At the moment, but with 18s CD it will be bad, i already have trouble catching Thieves with their shadowsteps, after this Warrior will easilly outmobility Ranger and Ranger won't even want to try to keep up with Thieves, also range totally depends on the build, my highest range comes from my throwing axe in the build i play.

    I get that it sucks ur losing a bit of mobility but with rangers ability to hit a target for decent damage at 1200+ range should u really have been able to catch a thief or warrior using mobility skills in the first place?

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It is almost as if like certain people jump from a nerfed broken build to the next broken build, and QQ when said broken build will get rightly nerfed, cause they get classcarried. Almost.

  • Kovu.7560Kovu.7560 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Anput.4620 said:
    I also mainly care about my mobility relative to a Warclaw as that is important to not get ganked, 15s cd on swoop would be fine if Warclaw didn't exist.

    For what its worth I'm pretty sure the warclaw movement is being reduced to not-in-your-territory movement and (possibly?) the dodges will be affected as well. I can't find an Anet post on the matter, but folks around the forum seem to indicate that's a thing that's been discussed. Longbow on ranger is still one of the better tools for dealing with mounted players and the brief knockdown off their pet often allows an extra free shot or two. Plus if they're running away they're probably starting the fight some distance from you so you can pew pew to your heart's content. If they're a thief, mesmer or a bunker build they may still escape, but everyone has to deal with this fact.

    It is true some of the other professions escaped minor mobility nerfs but rangers are still arguably in the best position to deal with mounted runners. So there's that at least.

    ~ Kovu

    Ranger, Necromancer, Fort Aspenwood.

  • Anput.4620Anput.4620 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    So if ur running double swoop then ur mobility is more than sufficient with ur effective range.

    At the moment, but with 18s CD it will be bad, i already have trouble catching Thieves with their shadowsteps, after this Warrior will easilly outmobility Ranger and Ranger won't even want to try to keep up with Thieves, also range totally depends on the build, my highest range comes from my throwing axe in the build i play.

    I get that it sucks ur losing a bit of mobility but with rangers ability to hit a target for decent damage at 1200+ range should u really have been able to catch a thief or warrior using mobility skills in the first place?

    Why do you assume everyone runs glassbow? Why shouldn't a ranger have mobility?

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    It is almost as if like certain people jump from a nerfed broken build to the next broken build, and QQ when said broken build will get rightly nerfed, cause they get classcarried. Almost.

    I have mained ranger for a long time now, boonbeast specifically.

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    I also mainly care about my mobility relative to a Warclaw as that is important to not get ganked, 15s cd on swoop would be fine if Warclaw didn't exist.

    For what its worth I'm pretty sure the warclaw movement is being reduced to not-in-your-territory movement and (possibly?) the dodges will be affected as well. I can't find an Anet post on the matter, but folks around the forum seem to indicate that's a thing that's been discussed. Longbow on ranger is still one of the better tools for dealing with mounted players and the brief knockdown off their pet often allows an extra free shot or two. Plus if they're running away they're probably starting the fight some distance from you so you can pew pew to your heart's content. If they're a thief, mesmer or a bunker build they may still escape, but everyone has to deal with this fact.

    It is true some of the other professions escaped minor mobility nerfs but rangers are still arguably in the best position to deal with mounted runners. So there's that at least.

    ~ Kovu

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    I also mainly care about my mobility relative to a Warclaw as that is important to not get ganked, 15s cd on swoop would be fine if Warclaw didn't exist.

    For what its worth I'm pretty sure the warclaw movement is being reduced to not-in-your-territory movement and (possibly?) the dodges will be affected as well. I can't find an Anet post on the matter, but folks around the forum seem to indicate that's a thing that's been discussed. Longbow on ranger is still one of the better tools for dealing with mounted players and the brief knockdown off their pet often allows an extra free shot or two. Plus if they're running away they're probably starting the fight some distance from you so you can pew pew to your heart's content. If they're a thief, mesmer or a bunker build they may still escape, but everyone has to deal with this fact.

    It is true some of the other professions escaped minor mobility nerfs but rangers are still arguably in the best position to deal with mounted runners. So there's that at least.

    ~ Kovu

    Movement speed normalization everywhere will just make it so you can't chase someone/escape someone ever anymore depending on what range you spot them.

    I don't play Longbow but boonbeast. You are telling me that everyone has to deal with this warclaw BS, but no one should have to, make the darn thing swiftness speed.

  • KryTiKaL.3125KryTiKaL.3125 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    So if ur running double swoop then ur mobility is more than sufficient with ur effective range.

    At the moment, but with 18s CD it will be bad, i already have trouble catching Thieves with their shadowsteps, after this Warrior will easilly outmobility Ranger and Ranger won't even want to try to keep up with Thieves, also range totally depends on the build, my highest range comes from my throwing axe in the build i play.

    It won't be bad with an 18 second cooldown on Bird Swoop, and with you still being able to get a 12 second CD on GS Swoop when traited, which is still an evade, your mobility will be just fine. If you're running Boonbeast there was more that needed to be done to bring it in line and not have it be the overtuned nonsense that it was. Which it did see. Moa Stance nerfed, boon durations nerfed, CD increases on your Stability, Bambi saw nerfs to damage, reduction to Concentration from your taits, etc. Boonbeast was literally one of the examples as to why Boons have been a prime contributor to the power creep in the game.

    I assume you're running some variant of the Boonbeast build, or just rather the standard axe-axe/sword-warhorn and yes you have more limited range compared to Longbow, but it isn't like Boonbeast lacks in sustain, even with boon rip, the frequency in which Soulbeast can reapply boons has been excessive and their ability to hard disengage as much as they have been, either with double swoop or just the one swoop, easily allows them to buy more than enough time for cooldowns to reset. Their Might gen, constant Protection and Regeneration on top of the large stacks of Stability that last for well over 30 seconds. Moa Stance, pop Dolyak Stance, pop Strength of the Pack, and merge with pet (to then gain all of the boons you just gave it) you can very easily achieve around 45 seconds of Stability and it is a large stack of it. That is all with Mara/Zerk gear or just full Mara gear with Dura runes. Not even building Concentration, in fact the 240 Concentration you do get from Lingering Magic gives you another 16% Boon Duration, thats why they cut that down.

    With the build you say you run, at least what I can somewhat assume it is, your swoop right now has a 10 second cooldown. That is short and by no means do you need it every 10 seconds if you're properly managing cooldowns. You still have evades off of your mainhand sword skills, some of which are also mobility, on top of the egregious amount of boons you're able to apply to yourself. Unless said Core Warrior you're fighting is somehow running more boon rip than a Spellbreaker...that isn't exactly a scenario that is very easy for the Core Warrior as the only boon rip they can possible get is from sigils, which either have cooldowns or are completely contingent upon a CC skill actually causing an interrupt and not just hitting.

    The most this update will do is cause you to be smarter about when you use your merge swoop as opposed to just pressing it every 10 seconds purely because you can.

    @Kovu.7560 I wouldn't dispute that Core Warrior is strong, however thats a moot point considering pretty much everything right now is overtuned which was why such a wide sweeping patch like this needs to happen. Warrior in general did need to get touched on, but not nearly as much as other classes and truthfully the things they needed to hit on Warrior in general they did hit. Might generation, sustain off of that insane Might generation, the passives being a massive crutch mechanic that were very widely used, Bull's Charge getting its damage reduced because it was still able to nuke people, Rampage skills seeing damage reductions, and Reckless Dodge getting its damage reduced as well. Most of the problems got hit. The only lingering one I'd say is Adrenal Health and similar Burst related traits still proccing even if Full Counter doesn't actually hit, which is a contrary function compared to other burst skills (Longbow burst being the only exception) where if Eviscerate or Arcing Slice either miss or are otherwise negated (dodged, blinded, invuln'd, blocked) they do not proc those traits.

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    So if ur running double swoop then ur mobility is more than sufficient with ur effective range.

    At the moment, but with 18s CD it will be bad, i already have trouble catching Thieves with their shadowsteps, after this Warrior will easilly outmobility Ranger and Ranger won't even want to try to keep up with Thieves, also range totally depends on the build, my highest range comes from my throwing axe in the build i play.

    I get that it sucks ur losing a bit of mobility but with rangers ability to hit a target for decent damage at 1200+ range should u really have been able to catch a thief or warrior using mobility skills in the first place?

    Why do you assume everyone runs glassbow? Why shouldn't a ranger have mobility?

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    It is almost as if like certain people jump from a nerfed broken build to the next broken build, and QQ when said broken build will get rightly nerfed, cause they get classcarried. Almost.

    I have mained ranger for a long time now, boonbeast specifically.

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    I also mainly care about my mobility relative to a Warclaw as that is important to not get ganked, 15s cd on swoop would be fine if Warclaw didn't exist.

    For what its worth I'm pretty sure the warclaw movement is being reduced to not-in-your-territory movement and (possibly?) the dodges will be affected as well. I can't find an Anet post on the matter, but folks around the forum seem to indicate that's a thing that's been discussed. Longbow on ranger is still one of the better tools for dealing with mounted players and the brief knockdown off their pet often allows an extra free shot or two. Plus if they're running away they're probably starting the fight some distance from you so you can pew pew to your heart's content. If they're a thief, mesmer or a bunker build they may still escape, but everyone has to deal with this fact.

    It is true some of the other professions escaped minor mobility nerfs but rangers are still arguably in the best position to deal with mounted runners. So there's that at least.

    ~ Kovu

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    I also mainly care about my mobility relative to a Warclaw as that is important to not get ganked, 15s cd on swoop would be fine if Warclaw didn't exist.

    For what its worth I'm pretty sure the warclaw movement is being reduced to not-in-your-territory movement and (possibly?) the dodges will be affected as well. I can't find an Anet post on the matter, but folks around the forum seem to indicate that's a thing that's been discussed. Longbow on ranger is still one of the better tools for dealing with mounted players and the brief knockdown off their pet often allows an extra free shot or two. Plus if they're running away they're probably starting the fight some distance from you so you can pew pew to your heart's content. If they're a thief, mesmer or a bunker build they may still escape, but everyone has to deal with this fact.

    It is true some of the other professions escaped minor mobility nerfs but rangers are still arguably in the best position to deal with mounted runners. So there's that at least.

    ~ Kovu

    Movement speed normalization everywhere will just make it so you can't chase someone/escape someone ever anymore depending on what range you spot them.

    I don't play Longbow but boonbeast. You are telling me that everyone has to deal with this warclaw BS, but no one should have to, make the darn thing swiftness speed.

    You used to main permastealth deadeye prenerf, and jumped to boonbeast after.

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    You have like 3 or 4 ppl talking against you and nobody really arguing for you

    Oh, we're here. We're just tired of rehashing the same arguments over and over again year-in-and-year-out. In the end, 8-out-of-9 players approve of ranger nerfs.

    As a ranger main, warrior is basically my kryptonite, but as it seems like warrior, ranger and elementalist saw the biggest nerfs and I'm not actually all that bummed about cooldown increases to the swoops. Those cooldowns are still fairly short, it is what it is. Honestly, its the continued nerfs to druid healing, core ranger, as well as weapons and utilities never seen in this gamemode that gets me.

    Like, if Druid healing is overpowered in pve, nerf it in pve -- not here. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    ~ Kovu

    In what world is warrior your kryptonite???
    Im serious, are we playing the same effing game? Sure you might not play a optimal build to fight warriors, but there sure as kitten are ranger builds that stomp warrior and laugh at him while doing it, in no world in warrior the counter to ranger kitten.

    Yea, here we are again, multiple ppl trying to tell him why ranger has certain advantages over warrior, that justify longer cds on swoop, because they simply exist, no questions asked.

    He has literally no argument, always just repeats "what about mesmer or thief" or "core war wrecks my build" no real explanation given and no understanding of the fact that other builds can wreck that core warrior.

    Warrior mobility is only somewhat weaker than ranger's and generally good enough to catch rangers that initially commit to a fight, they have several tools to slow down rangers trying to run away via cripple, their damage in melee pre-patch dwarfs anything a ranger can put, much of that damage (pre-patch) coming attached to stuns, they have enough uptime on projectile reflection to counter ranged spam until they close the gap, arguably more damage mitigation, a larger health pool, higher base armor/defense, better stun break access and prevention, passive and active regeneration, the ability to be immune to critical hits (which they can cycle into their other immunities for nice power-damage mitigation for a longer duration) and some of the larger damage coefficients in the game (whereas rangers have lower coefficients due to their pets supposedly significantly contributing to the fight).

    I'm not saying warriors are universally better at everything, but there are certainly things they are better at.

    ~ Kovu

    You said warrior is the kryptonite to ranger which highly indicates a hard counter, which warrior just isnt.

    A hardcounter to warrior would be like dragon hunter vs warrior, which definately isnt the case in a warrior vs ranger.

    My kryptonite, as in me personally for the build I run. If I rolled condi I'd probably have better odds, or I could tank up on boonbeast and force a stalemate.

    ~ Kovu

    Eveb if you rolled a propet longbiw build youd probably have much better odds

    The main comparison of this thread seems to be how the OP's concerns with regard to mobility are invalid because they're "comparing apples to oranges", and while that may or may not be true everyone is busy talking about the strengths of the apple (ranger) and not of that of the orange (warrior). I thought I'd pipe in and talk about the orange for a little bit.
    But sure, disregard everything I mentioned in a previous post about how warriors can literally tank and regen power damage for days and reflect projectiles and assume pewpew to be a suitable counter. If you want to think that rangers are somehow omnipotent, I honestly can't stop you.

    You guys can continue discussing the whole swoop nerf with Anput, I couldn't be kitten about that particular change.

    ~ Kovu

    Since you believe that warrior is an omnipotent god, let me my religion that ranger is one. Sounds just as kitten as it is.

    In what world can warrior tank power dmg for days? They have pretty much no source of protection (which ranger btw has)
    The reflect has to be traited and then still has traited 20sec cd its on 1 weapon, wowi, ranger gs even has a knockdown tied to their block.
    They have barely any source for regeneration (the boon).
    The biggest sustain comes from traits that are tied to hitting their burst skills, dodge those and they wont have that.

    And dont get me started on endure pain, ranger has stone sig, just saying.

    And yes, longbow ranger hits hard enough to pressure a warrior, especially if they use unblockables. Not that hard to slot such thing in. Also helps vs guards btw.
    Warrior is in no world a counter to ranger, thats just kitten.

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    You have like 3 or 4 ppl talking against you and nobody really arguing for you

    Oh, we're here. We're just tired of rehashing the same arguments over and over again year-in-and-year-out. In the end, 8-out-of-9 players approve of ranger nerfs.

    As a ranger main, warrior is basically my kryptonite, but as it seems like warrior, ranger and elementalist saw the biggest nerfs and I'm not actually all that bummed about cooldown increases to the swoops. Those cooldowns are still fairly short, it is what it is. Honestly, its the continued nerfs to druid healing, core ranger, as well as weapons and utilities never seen in this gamemode that gets me.

    Like, if Druid healing is overpowered in pve, nerf it in pve -- not here. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    ~ Kovu

    In what world is warrior your kryptonite???
    Im serious, are we playing the same effing game? Sure you might not play a optimal build to fight warriors, but there sure as kitten are ranger builds that stomp warrior and laugh at him while doing it, in no world in warrior the counter to ranger kitten.

    Yea, here we are again, multiple ppl trying to tell him why ranger has certain advantages over warrior, that justify longer cds on swoop, because they simply exist, no questions asked.

    He has literally no argument, always just repeats "what about mesmer or thief" or "core war wrecks my build" no real explanation given and no understanding of the fact that other builds can wreck that core warrior.

    Warrior mobility is only somewhat weaker than ranger's and generally good enough to catch rangers that initially commit to a fight, they have several tools to slow down rangers trying to run away via cripple, their damage in melee pre-patch dwarfs anything a ranger can put, much of that damage (pre-patch) coming attached to stuns, they have enough uptime on projectile reflection to counter ranged spam until they close the gap, arguably more damage mitigation, a larger health pool, higher base armor/defense, better stun break access and prevention, passive and active regeneration, the ability to be immune to critical hits (which they can cycle into their other immunities for nice power-damage mitigation for a longer duration) and some of the larger damage coefficients in the game (whereas rangers have lower coefficients due to their pets supposedly significantly contributing to the fight).

    I'm not saying warriors are universally better at everything, but there are certainly things they are better at.

    ~ Kovu

    You said warrior is the kryptonite to ranger which highly indicates a hard counter, which warrior just isnt.

    A hardcounter to warrior would be like dragon hunter vs warrior, which definately isnt the case in a warrior vs ranger.

    My kryptonite, as in me personally for the build I run. If I rolled condi I'd probably have better odds, or I could tank up on boonbeast and force a stalemate.

    ~ Kovu

    Eveb if you rolled a propet longbiw build youd probably have much better odds

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    You have like 3 or 4 ppl talking against you and nobody really arguing for you

    Oh, we're here. We're just tired of rehashing the same arguments over and over again year-in-and-year-out. In the end, 8-out-of-9 players approve of ranger nerfs.

    As a ranger main, warrior is basically my kryptonite, but as it seems like warrior, ranger and elementalist saw the biggest nerfs and I'm not actually all that bummed about cooldown increases to the swoops. Those cooldowns are still fairly short, it is what it is. Honestly, its the continued nerfs to druid healing, core ranger, as well as weapons and utilities never seen in this gamemode that gets me.

    Like, if Druid healing is overpowered in pve, nerf it in pve -- not here. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    ~ Kovu

    In what world is warrior your kryptonite???
    Im serious, are we playing the same effing game? Sure you might not play a optimal build to fight warriors, but there sure as kitten are ranger builds that stomp warrior and laugh at him while doing it, in no world in warrior the counter to ranger kitten.

    Yea, here we are again, multiple ppl trying to tell him why ranger has certain advantages over warrior, that justify longer cds on swoop, because they simply exist, no questions asked.

    He has literally no argument, always just repeats "what about mesmer or thief" or "core war wrecks my build" no real explanation given and no understanding of the fact that other builds can wreck that core warrior.

    Warrior mobility is only somewhat weaker than ranger's and generally good enough to catch rangers that initially commit to a fight, they have several tools to slow down rangers trying to run away via cripple, their damage in melee pre-patch dwarfs anything a ranger can put, much of that damage (pre-patch) coming attached to stuns, they have enough uptime on projectile reflection to counter ranged spam until they close the gap, arguably more damage mitigation, a larger health pool, higher base armor/defense, better stun break access and prevention, passive and active regeneration, the ability to be immune to critical hits (which they can cycle into their other immunities for nice power-damage mitigation for a longer duration) and some of the larger damage coefficients in the game (whereas rangers have lower coefficients due to their pets supposedly significantly contributing to the fight).

    I'm not saying warriors are universally better at everything, but there are certainly things they are better at.

    ~ Kovu

    You said warrior is the kryptonite to ranger which highly indicates a hard counter, which warrior just isnt.

    A hardcounter to warrior would be like dragon hunter vs warrior, which definately isnt the case in a warrior vs ranger.

    My kryptonite, as in me personally for the build I run. If I rolled condi I'd probably have better odds, or I could tank up on boonbeast and force a stalemate.

    ~ Kovu

    Eveb if you rolled a propet longbiw build youd probably have much better odds

    W> @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    You have like 3 or 4 ppl talking against you and nobody really arguing for you

    Oh, we're here. We're just tired of rehashing the same arguments over and over again year-in-and-year-out. In the end, 8-out-of-9 players approve of ranger nerfs.

    As a ranger main, warrior is basically my kryptonite, but as it seems like warrior, ranger and elementalist saw the biggest nerfs and I'm not actually all that bummed about cooldown increases to the swoops. Those cooldowns are still fairly short, it is what it is. Honestly, its the continued nerfs to druid healing, core ranger, as well as weapons and utilities never seen in this gamemode that gets me.

    Like, if Druid healing is overpowered in pve, nerf it in pve -- not here. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    ~ Kovu

    In what world is warrior your kryptonite???
    Im serious, are we playing the same effing game? Sure you might not play a optimal build to fight warriors, but there sure as kitten are ranger builds that stomp warrior and laugh at him while doing it, in no world in warrior the counter to ranger kitten.

    Yea, here we are again, multiple ppl trying to tell him why ranger has certain advantages over warrior, that justify longer cds on swoop, because they simply exist, no questions asked.

    He has literally no argument, always just repeats "what about mesmer or thief" or "core war wrecks my build" no real explanation given and no understanding of the fact that other builds can wreck that core warrior.

    Warrior mobility is only somewhat weaker than ranger's and generally good enough to catch rangers that initially commit to a fight, they have several tools to slow down rangers trying to run away via cripple, their damage in melee pre-patch dwarfs anything a ranger can put, much of that damage (pre-patch) coming attached to stuns, they have enough uptime on projectile reflection to counter ranged spam until they close the gap, arguably more damage mitigation, a larger health pool, higher base armor/defense, better stun break access and prevention, passive and active regeneration, the ability to be immune to critical hits (which they can cycle into their other immunities for nice power-damage mitigation for a longer duration) and some of the larger damage coefficients in the game (whereas rangers have lower coefficients due to their pets supposedly significantly contributing to the fight).

    I'm not saying warriors are universally better at everything, but there are certainly things they are better at.

    ~ Kovu

    You said warrior is the kryptonite to ranger which highly indicates a hard counter, which warrior just isnt.

    A hardcounter to warrior would be like dragon hunter vs warrior, which definately isnt the case in a warrior vs ranger.

    My kryptonite, as in me personally for the build I run. If I rolled condi I'd probably have better odds, or I could tank up on boonbeast and force a stalemate.

    ~ Kovu

    Eveb if you rolled a propet longbiw build youd probably have much better odds

    Why is LB literally the only valid build to you lol.

    I also mainly care about my mobility relative to a Warclaw as that is important to not get ganked, 15s cd on swoop would be fine if Warclaw didn't exist.

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

    How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

    Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

    Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

    Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

    Warrior is often full melee class, outside of troll killshot builds, they need mobility to stay with a target. This is a bit OP right now because of warrior sustain and hard CC still hitting like a truck, however after the patch those hard CCs will be doing more or less 0 dmg and sustain will be going down as well. Soulbeast isn't hurting for mobility, they have some of the highest in the game for a class that can kite at 1,800 range, warrior can't do that. Mobility across the board was nerfed, guard GS LoF which is only 600 range, not 1,000 like soulbeast GS, is also seeing a CD increase to 15s.

    You might want to read the patch notes about OTHER classes as well. Soulbeast does indeed right now have to much mobility, after the patch with nerfs to hard CC, mobility and kiting are going to be just that much more powerful. And looking at everything else, the nerfs look inline with most others, we will have to wait for live to see how it all plays out in the game.

    How are the nerfs inline with Thieves and Mesmers which are the other mobile classes? I don't see any nerfs for them except 5 more seconds on Mes blink.

    The problem is that the Warclaw still has the same speed, going OOC when you see 3 poeple on cats going towards you while fighting a mob will be that much harder and this only helps ganking groups.

    Staff on mes saw an increased CD on Phase Retreat, increased CD on Blink, Mirage loses a dodge and as such doubles the CD of sword leap. For Thief, Death's Retreat saw a initiative cost increase, Withdraw saw a CD increase, along with other things and other initiative cost increases that effect all skill use on thief.

    So I will ask again, did you read the patch notes for any of the other classes?

    Warclaw was already talked about in the balance threads, they agree it is to powerful, and that a dodge will probably end up getting removed, and run speed will be the same across all areas with a possible over all reduction, people were asking for swiftness speed only. If that happens, then you would still be able to out run them. You also should not just be guaranteed escape because you are on soulbeast.

    Mirage loses a dodge which is true, but most i see don't use staff, the oneshot builds or condi builds, the Thiefs abilities can still be spammed to run away, the initiative increases only hurt when you actually want to use the mobility while fighting, if you play defensive for a bit you can still shortbow out of there right after, i say this as someone that plays staff Thief and doesn't get the vault nerf because i literally see no other staff thiefs, the rifle nerf only affects DE and i am more worried about shortbow.

    I don't play Mesmer so my knowledge on skill names is limmited but as someone that also plays Thief a lot the only nerfs that hurt a lot is vault to 6 and some cd increases like roll, nothing as bad as Swoop almost getting double the CD, heck, make it 15s, but 18 is just way too much on something that is just a dash.

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

    How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

    Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

    Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

    Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

    Warrior is often full melee class, outside of troll killshot builds, they need mobility to stay with a target. This is a bit OP right now because of warrior sustain and hard CC still hitting like a truck, however after the patch those hard CCs will be doing more or less 0 dmg and sustain will be going down as well. Soulbeast isn't hurting for mobility, they have some of the highest in the game for a class that can kite at 1,800 range, warrior can't do that. Mobility across the board was nerfed, guard GS LoF which is only 600 range, not 1,000 like soulbeast GS, is also seeing a CD increase to 15s.

    You might want to read the patch notes about OTHER classes as well. Soulbeast does indeed right now have to much mobility, after the patch with nerfs to hard CC, mobility and kiting are going to be just that much more powerful. And looking at everything else, the nerfs look inline with most others, we will have to wait for live to see how it all plays out in the game.

    How are the nerfs inline with Thieves and Mesmers which are the other mobile classes? I don't see any nerfs for them except 5 more seconds on Mes blink.

    The problem is that the Warclaw still has the same speed, going OOC when you see 3 poeple on cats going towards you while fighting a mob will be that much harder and this only helps ganking groups.

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

    How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

    Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

    Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

    Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

    Double swoop is 2400 range. Whirlwind attack+rush is 1650 range. Double swoop is more mobility per CD than WWA+Rush.

    Swoop is 2200 range, Warriors still have another weapon set in Dagger for spellbreaker to have a small dash too, Warrior was also never considered a mobility class and has other things, like stupid damage in core.

    @Tinnel.4369 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Tinnel.4369 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

    How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

    Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

    Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

    Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

    Where are these thieves with unlimited initiative you speak of?

    I am saying that they can still spam the same amount so their relative mobility goes up.

    The same amount isn't all that much and they're still left with the exact same options after they've blown that initiative. Except after the patch, turning and unloading a burst won't be an option. Shortbow mobility isn't what's wrong with thief.

    Soulbeast lasted the longest out of any class with a killer tool kit at their disposal. Cutting their mobility and sustain, especially relative to all the other class changes, on paper, doesn't seem bad imo. Looking at it with blinders on before you can even play it is just unnecessary stress.

    Im just imagining ganking groups on cats running me down and i have no mobility to not get chased and corpse jumped on. If Warclaw had swiftness speed i wouldn't mind as much, 18 seconds on just a dash is insane though, 15 would be more fair.

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    because ranger has very good ranged options, has access to stealth, and overall good mobility.
    while warrior is mostly full melee, has no way to stealth without others and has to be able to stick to their target, because thats the only way to apply pressure.
    you are comparing oranges with apples

    Except core warrior is way more broken atm.

    Stealth is also very limited, i don't use either smokescale or longbow.

    And what about thieves and mesmers?

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

    What leap has 18s cd?!

    because ranger has very good ranged options, has access to stealth, and overall good mobility.
    while warrior is mostly full melee, has no way to stealth without others and has to be able to stick to their target, because thats the only way to apply pressure.
    you are comparing oranges with apples

    Very much this^
    This post is a good example of why simply comparing one classes skill to ur own and thinking cuz their similar they should follow the same parameters is never a good way to try and argue a nerf or for a buff.

    Core war is infinitely better. And what about thieves and mesmers?

    In what regard is core war infinitely better than soulbeast? Ranger cant kite warriors so hard and have more or same amount of sustain atm.

    Its not my fault you dont play the strong stuff, longbow and smokescale are definately very very viable and just because YOU dont play those doesnt mean your mobility should get buffed, lol.

    Use the tools the game gives you. And if you dont use them, dont cry for buffs, seriously. Anet wont buff mobility, just because you dont like your stealth options.
    Imagine someone dares to like longbow AND smallscale and gets mobility buffs ontop, just because you need that with your special snowflake build. Oof. Nightmares.

    I was just answering about warrior, because i know warrior best and i do agree that thief, mesmer and warclaw mobility need to be toned down as they are right now.

    You are telling me that right now in the game you can outrun a warclaw? Well there you have your answer, mobility nerf WELL deserved, cant do that on warrior.

    Core warriors have way more sustain while being able to use Zerker gear and spike for stupid amounts of damage.

    I play Boonbeast with a greatsword axe and warhorn, how is that a bad build by any means? Not everyone plays glass damage builds. I easilly beat most glass rangers with this build as this build excells against glass builds, but any build that also has simillar sustain but way more damage, like core warrior, just wrecks it, all i can do is be on the defensive, kite, and not die as i don't get a chance to do enough damage.

    So u play soulbeast who has a way more effective and versatile ranged weapon with lb than any other class and for sure warrior and ur complaining that ur melee builds are also not superior to the class who SHOULD be the king of melee (warrior) as rangers are king of range. Cmon man u serious? I donno if I'd even put warrior ahead in melee compared to ranger though it definitely should be. With that said soulbeast as a whole has great mobility and the fact u chose to play a build that runs with less mobility than comparing it to classes running higher mobility builds is funny. If a warrior isnt running gs or bullscharge what crazy mobility does it have? Yeah.

    How am i running less mobility? My build still has double swoop.

    I "literally" never said that longbow is the only valid build for ranger. I said that you cant just have everything in one build, jesus, and thats what you exactly want, you want insane mobility, you want stealth and big damages.

    You have to make decisions, take one and leave something else, its not hard to understand that concept.
    You already said, you destroy other builds with your boonbeast, so why do you think it should destroy EVERY build out there?