Terter.4125 Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 Many players, including Wooden Potatoes, have this theory of Jormag being female because of the voice that was having in the new saga cinematic. What do you think... do you agree or disagree with this theory ? I would like to hear the Arena Net devs confirming on this one so we can stop analyzing every bit of a detail.Edit: Because of the many given opinions so far I would like to add. I'm not asking about what sex organs Jormag is having, because a lot of players are having mixed opinion on this subject and escalate and give quite the abstract thinking. I'm asking about what gender does Jormag represent in your opinion given the new saga cinematic? Is it giving you a male or a female characteristics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terter.4125 Posted September 2, 2019 Author Share Posted September 2, 2019 My opinion --> I personally think Jormag is male and Arena Net gave him a manipulative, mysterious voice... a bit sexy at points... purposely. He want's to manipulate all and thus consume them, call them in his icy, cold trap. Also from time to time he sounds maniac where he shows his true color. After all... we had Modremoth, who had this monstrous voice of an entity that was consuming everything. We had Kralkatorrik which had voice of an old man, who is tired of living. So what is your opinion on all of that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayra.7405 Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 NoneDragons are Mono-sexual. Glint produced (at least) 2 eggs, but there was never a word about fertilization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terter.4125 Posted September 2, 2019 Author Share Posted September 2, 2019 @"Dayra.7405" said:NoneDragons are Mono-sexual. Glint produced (at least) 2 eggs, but there was never a word about fertilization.Can you show me information on this ?Also as far as I remember Glint produced huge amount of eggs in Guild Wars 1https://i.ytimg.com/vi/fvM2fnKZ8xg/maxresdefault.jpgAlso if there was no fertilization how do you explain Aurene having, Kralkatorrik as a grandfather ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeefa.3915 Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 I believe Dayra is correct. At least to some extend. Glint didn't have a mate.Honestly though I don't care, gender may matter in some cases, but for big ancient dragon entities, it doesn't really. In my opinion anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danikat.8537 Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 We know almost nothing about the Elder Dragons biology. We know Kralkatorrik at some point had at least 1 child, who laid a clutch of eggs (at least 2 of which hatched), but we don't know if either Glint or her offspring had a second parent or who/what that was if they did. We know the Pale Tree grew from a seed which is assumed to have come from Mordremoth, and then produced hundreds of asexual children (the sylvari) but again there is no mention of a second parent in either case. We also don't know if the Elder Dragons are actually one species or all different ones, so it might be that what one can do has no bearing on the others.What we do know is that all the Elder Dragons eat magic, preferably it seems 'pure' raw magic which can be extremely dangerous to the player races and many other lifeforms on Tyria, they live for thousands of years going through a cycle of awakening and hibernation, they have magical powers unlike those we're familiar with including the ability to convert the land around them to their ideal habitat just by being there (or even flying over it in Kralkatorrik's case) and many of them - Jormag included - look more similar to elementals than biological creatures.In other words there is no reason to think these creatures are anything like us, certainly not that their voice can tell us their gender. Outside of humans real-life reproductive biology can get absurdly complicated, from clown fish who change from male to female when their group needs it, to snails who are all hermaphrodites (typically the biggest of the two will lay the eggs, but not always) to plants who can produce seeds through sexual reproduction with the help of insects, or can fertilise their own seeds if necessary or can produce an offshoot which is effectively a clone that will grow into an independent plant. So even looking at real-life there's many more options for non-human creatures than just male or female. Add in mythology and we get even more options - creatures that just come into being with no parent of any kind, or stories like the Godess Athena being born from a thought in Zeus's head as a fully grown adult, in armour.On a slightly different note Glint, Vlast, Aurene and the Pale Tree all use male or female pronouns but that may be something they adopted when talking to other races, especially Aurene who I seem to remember the Commander calls 'she' as soon as she's born. I'd be interested to know if that carries over to other languages, since it's often raised as a limitation of English that a person must be referred to as 'he' or 'she'. 'It' is technically gender neutral but also implies the subject is not a person, so it's considered rude to use it for a person. 'They' is catching on (e.g. you'll often see people on forums call another poster 'they' if they don't know if they're male or female) but can look awkward in some sentences so the writers may have decided to assign pronouns to the dragons and the Pale Tree for simplicity when writing dialogue involving them. Or something the dragons chose as a way of making themselves seem more familiar and approachable.(On a very different note if Jormag is female, non-binary, asexual, something unique to dragons, or anything except male I really want to see how the Sons of Svanir react.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danikat.8537 Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 @Zeefa.3915 said:I believe Dayra is correct. At least to some extend. Glint didn't have a mate.Honestly though I don't care, gender may matter in some cases, but for big ancient dragon entities, it doesn't really. In my opinion anyway. To be more precise Glint has never mentioned a mate, she hasn't explicitly said there wasn't one.The way my cousin talks about her son you could believe he never had a father if you didn't know that's not possible. She'll talk about being pregnant and having the baby but there will never be any hint that a man was involved at any point. She has good reason for that, and I'll respect her desire to never again acknowledge his existence, but it doesn't change the fact that she couldn't have had a baby without a man.It's possible Glint is in a similar situation. Aurene called Kralkatorrik her grandfather, not her father, meaning he's not Glint's mate (not in a 12+ game anyway) so if sexual reproduction was involved there had to be another dragon and she may just choose to never talk about him for some reason. Or it could be that dragons don't need a partner to reproduce.Maybe they are more similar to elementals than organic beings and they create their offspring through magic, with the eggs/seeds being a way of delaying the 'birth' until an appropriate time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knomslayer.9457 Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 I think Jormag is both. They... im using they. They can choose to be a male or female. Ever heard of gender dysphoria? Yeah thats it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kumouta.4985 Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 No gender nor sex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terter.4125 Posted September 2, 2019 Author Share Posted September 2, 2019 @Danikat.8537 said:It's possible Glint is in a similar situation. Aurene called Kralkatorrik her grandfather, not her father, meaning he's not Glint's mate (not in a 12+ game anyway) so if sexual reproduction was involved there had to be another dragon and she may just choose to never talk about him for some reason. Or it could be that dragons don't need a partner to reproduce.Maybe they are more similar to elementals than organic beings and they create their offspring through magic, with the eggs/seeds being a way of delaying the 'birth' until an appropriate time.In my opinion as huge and magical creatures the elder dragons are... they are flying lizards after all and they do lay eggs, and thus those eggs must be fertilized, that's how things work irl. But I can agree on that, that this is fiction and everything is possible... but... even without having sex organs, the dragons still represent a gender, and the question of this topic is what gender does Jormag represent in your opinion.Side note: I think the Pail Tree is actually an elder dragon. Not sure if Mordremoth is her father or mating partner. Cannot wait to see more lore on that in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayakaru.6583 Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 Fourth option, elder dragons are elder dragons. They're of neither gender.The only dragon we can argue had a gender, would be kralkatorrik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terter.4125 Posted September 2, 2019 Author Share Posted September 2, 2019 Edited the question on the top, giving a bit more specific question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edelweiss.4261 Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 @knomslayer.9457 said:I think Jormag is both. They... im using they. They can choose to be a male or female. Ever heard of gender dysphoria? Yeah thats it.Gender dysphoria would be, in grossly oversimplified terms, negative feelings about your assigned gender. What you are suggesting sounds either genderfluid or something like the two-spirit. This could be an interesting topic for exploration if it is handled carefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terter.4125 Posted September 2, 2019 Author Share Posted September 2, 2019 Can we simplify things just once without adding all the colors of the rainbow when there is a topic about male and female characteristics? Just for once put your thought on a scale and decide how does Jormag voice and vibes seem to you, without staying in the middle? More of the feminine side or more of the masculine? Also English is not my native language, so I'm simplifying things just with male/female... do not hate for that please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayra.7405 Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 Hm,Kraikatorik and Glint and Aurene are (magically animated) Crystals, did you ever discussed the sex of a diamond?Mordremorth was a plant, plants are usually bothZhaitan was undead, undead usually don't reproduce, but come into existence when something alive die.Jormag seems to be a collection of a snow-Crystals, something like a blizzard, do blizzards really have sex? I think as such he can split out sub-blizzards and maybe even rejoin them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tekoneiric.6817 Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 I think they are most likely physically female and capable of parthenogenesis but their gender might independent of their physical anatomy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClickToKill.8473 Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 Elder Dragons seem to be primordial forces that don't have the concept of gender. They don't have concepts mortals have to begin with, as we learned with Kralkatorrik. Also, are we sure that is really Jormag's voice? Maybe Jormag has a herald. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terter.4125 Posted September 2, 2019 Author Share Posted September 2, 2019 @"Dayra.7405" said:Hm,Kraikatorik and Glint and Aurene are (magically animated) Crystals, did you ever discussed the sex of a diamond?Mordremorth was a plant, plants are usually bothZhaitan was undead, undead usually don't reproduce, but come into existence when something alive die.Jormag seems to be a mixture of a snow-Crystal and a blizzard, do blizzards really have sex?Dragons are living creatures no matter from what they are made, and they do have relationships between one another... for example Aurene having a mother, brother, grandfather. Aurene and Glint were referred as "she", and Kralkatorrik and Vlast as "he". Also we do not know how dragons get their natural elements. While being an egg there can be a lot of things happening. From the start the dragon inside of the egg may be neutral dragon and while growing and developing inside the egg, it may get the his/her element from which it's built up while consuming the magic surrounding the egg, thus one element gets stronger from the others and the dragon now is having a distinct element, just like a fetus developes gender in it's 2nd month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terter.4125 Posted September 2, 2019 Author Share Posted September 2, 2019 @ClickToKill.8473 said:Elder Dragons seem to be primordial forces that don't have the concept of gender. They don't have concepts mortals have to begin with, as we learned with Kralkatorrik. Also, are we sure that is really Jormag's voice? Maybe Jormag has a herald. I think that's Jormag's voice, just like sylvaries were hearing Mordremoth's voice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayra.7405 Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 @"Gopaka.7839" said:for example Aurene having a mother, brother, grandfather. That's our thinking/speaking about them, not necessarily their reality.We are a just bit limited in our language and thinking with respect to animated natural forces (dragons) or Gods.In the end all this is only a metaphor or analogy, that has it's clear limits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClickToKill.8473 Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 Elder Dragons don't really speak though. If it is Jormag's voice, then its either an amplification of the corrupting whispers or Jormag is speaking through one of its servants. Mordremoth was able to speak through telepathy, Zhaitan spoke through its servants, and Kralkatorrik only spoke through its conscience. I personally think it would make sense to have a strong villain that is aligned with Jormag as part 1 of this story. I would be completely disappointed if Jormag just appeared to be slain within what would be a LW season span. Think about it. This could be the "Scarlet Briar"-type character leading Jormag's march south. Could be a female Koda, could be male Norn, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randulf.7614 Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 Jormag is non binary. They confirmed this on Twitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randulf.7614 Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 @ClickToKill.8473 said:Elder Dragons seem to be primordial forces that don't have the concept of gender. They don't have concepts mortals have to begin with, as we learned with Kralkatorrik. Also, are we sure that is really Jormag's voice? Maybe Jormag has a herald. They confirmed it was Jormag on one of the writers twitter replies and that Jormag is non binary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fleebag.1384 Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 Neither... just female/male as options is too narrow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylvari.2953 Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 I don't care, lol. Gender doesn't matter to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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