Soulbeast nerfs are not fair.

[Sandzibar.5134]

@"Valar Dotalis.6409" said:The funniest part is rangers who think their build takes skill defending 30k+ burst damage like it wasn't OP. As for "withstanding" 30k damage, he bursted through warclaw hp, normal hp, and downstate hp. This isn't about the HP I have, it's the insane damage that rangers were able to dish out even after the first nerf. 19.5k damage for pressing F3 is so skillful, fair, and balanced, you guys.

Its much more skillful to go stealth, and then Press 1.

Ok. Good point.

[Dajas.4715]

@Substance E.4852 said:

@Blocki.4931 said:Everything was nerfed and SB with it's large multipliers was mostly untouched. This was coming for a long time. Doesn't have to be OP by the definition of most people, the fact you can stack high multipliers on top of high scaling when everything in this game got nerfed is stupid.

@"Valar Dotalis.6409" said:Screenshot of a damage log I took on March 14.

-Takes 36,000 damage-Still alive

uh what?

More to the point, if I can lay down that kind of damage willy nilly then why am I told to reroll when I bring a ranger into a zerg?

Surely being able to instagib 5 people in mere seconds should make us top pick

Something's just not adding up

Looks like he was just being attacked by 2 people so not really a zerg fight. And I think you are forgetting about his downed health bar, the last hit would off been whe he was downed.

[Eramonster.2718]

Since Ranger is one of my main. Very interested in that SB build, cause if my calculation isn't wrong, the SB long range shot should be dealing 6.8-7k per crit. No where close to that atm with boons :blush:.

[Brynioch.1873]

@"Mokk.2397" said:Soulbeast damage is NOT the problem .The big numbers are not coming from the soulbeast attacks alone. IT"S COMING FROM THE BOON SHARE !!! It's the boons that are problem. This has been the problem since HOT . FIX THE "F" ING BOONS. Until the boon share is fixed we will see the same meta and the same classes dominating the play field . If SoulBeast was so darn OP Then why Is it NOT dominating the game . Because it's not over powered and never was over powered. What it was doing was disrupting the META and the people playing the META don't like that.

I won't even hesitate the the Devs are even cratering to this and have absolutely NO interest of balancing the game in WvW .Waiting patiently 8 years to have ranger brought up to a position to actually compete in WvW just to have it completely destroyed over and over again . I'm tired and seriously considering on leaving . But I guess since I don't play the META I won't have an effect on ANETS bottom line

Boonshare is fine. The problem is "Sic 'Em" and the meme builds that come with it. People will always complain about it. Just rework it, remove the damage buff and balance the damage in PvE and PvP accordingly afterwards.

[Lazze.9870]

@"Valar Dotalis.6409" said:The funniest part is rangers who think their build takes skill defending 30k+ burst damage like it wasn't OP. As for "withstanding" 30k damage, he bursted through warclaw hp, normal hp, and downstate hp. This isn't about the HP I have, it's the insane damage that rangers were able to dish out even after the first nerf. 19.5k damage for pressing F3 is so skillful, fair, and balanced, you guys.

It's funnier that thief players in WvW talk about what "takes skill" to begin with.

The fact of the matter is that ranger is barely represented in the wvw or the pvp meta, outside of roaming. Any class can roam or duel. I have no intention to sit and defend some of the burst capabilities a soulbeast had, but it is fucking ridiculous that this class barely can catch a break when it fringes on being closer to the meta.

We have a fucking support focused elite spec, and yet ranger has never had a proper support role in competetive game modes (sidenoder with heals and Search & Rescue niche don't count). Instead we get these meme immobilize druid builds that are never really meta, but will still get nerfed because they are annoying and people are crying about everything.

People have 0 interest in seeing this class as a viable option in PvP, or as anything other than a roamer or nuisance in WvW. Most people barely tolerate the latter.

[Mokk.2397]

@"Miellyn.6847" said:Boonshare is fine. The problem is "Sic 'Em" and the meme builds that come with it. People will always complain about it. Just rework it, remove the damage buff and balance the damage in PvE and PvP accordingly afterwards.

Boon share is not fine when 2 classes with minimal presence can hold a 100% up time with minimal effort on a whole group. "Sic'Em" was only a problem to people with glass Meta builds . Glass cannon ranger is not a Meme build but a forced build because no other choice is given that has any benefit to a group. Ferocity and fury is rammed down the rangers throat forcing power and precision the only valid choices to make.

[Evil.1580]

While some people hate the ranger this doesn't mean it should be nerfed or considered OP.Not worth it arguing about this. We just have to stick with the facts.

1. PvP -> check the top 100 players and see how many end up with a ranger.
2. WvW -> Place in good WvW squad? Absolutely not. Roaming? Not the greatest but decent enough.
3. Raid -> excluding the support druid which is still essential for every raid, we can safely say that the ranger DPS doesn't shine and we can compare and see this at many websites, including snowcrows.

Overall, the ranger was punished very hard, let's face it and drop the sh*ts from the walls - there is absolutely no reason to consider the ranger an OP profession. And the nerf was a little too much, considering this class wasn't the best in any of the GW2 game modes. Don't get me wrong - I am all for balance, but sorry, this was too much and unnecessary.

[Murshid.9854]

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

1. PvP -> check the top 100 players and see how many end up with a ranger.THISBalance should be based on top tier gameplay not bronze-platinum gameplay or even bottom legend, I remember in Dota we had one hero called Spectre she was so OP in all levels but in Tier 1 matches she was easily counterable by teamplay and almost no one play it in tier 1, so it didn't get nerfed at all even it reached high average win rates by far from the 2nd top win rate cause the issue is with other players don't know how to counter it not with the hero herself being OP, thats very similar with ranger, you don't see any ranger in top PvP cause everybody know how to counter it and you need to be really really great with it to play ranger in top tier, I really hope if someone can deliver this point to our balance team who I see want to make good changes but kinds make it with wrong implementation, you don't nerf based on feedback from people < legend crying about class they can't counter but its easily countered in higher levels, its them who can't counter it not the class being non counterable enough.

[Fueki.4753]

@"bOTEB.1573"THISBalance should be based on top tier gameplayWould should any developer did balance around the top 1% or 2%?Those will always find ways to exploit any balance.Just because those people toy with something and make it look super strong doesn't mean it actually is too strong for the majority of people using it.

Balance is something that affects everyone and should be done to the advantage of as many players as possible.Balancing around the top percentages balances only their matches and leaves the rest even more unbalanced.Such a situation is objectively not to the advantage of as many players as possible.

[Arheundel.6451]

@Murshid.9854 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

1. PvP -> check the top 100 players and see how many end up with a ranger.THISBalance should be based on top tier gameplay not bronze-platinum gameplay or even bottom legend, I remember in Dota we had one hero called Spectre she was so OP in all levels but in Tier 1 matches she was easily counterable by teamplay and almost no one play it in tier 1, so it didn't get nerfed at all even it reached high average win rates by far from the 2nd top win rate cause the issue is with other players don't know how to counter it not with the hero herself being OP, thats very similar with ranger, you don't see any ranger in top PvP cause everybody know how to counter it and you need to be really really great with it to play ranger in top tier, I really hope if someone can deliver this point to our balance team who I see want to make good changes but kinds make it with wrong implementation, you don't nerf based on feedback from people < legend crying about class they can't counter but its easily countered in higher levels, its them who can't counter it not the class being non counterable enough.

Balance affects everybody in game..not only those free to play for 5-6 hrs every day of the week

[Evil.1580]

@Fueki.4753 said:

@"bOTEB.1573"THISBalance should be based on top tier gameplayWould should any developer did balance around the top 1% or 2%?Those will

always

find ways to exploit any balance.Just because those people toy with something and make it

look

super strong doesn't mean it actually

is

too strong for the majority of people using it.

Balance is something that affects everyone and should be done to the advantage of as many players as possible.Balancing around the top percentages balances only their matches and leaves the rest even more unbalanced.Such a situation is objectively not to the advantage of as many players as possible.

Wait a minute. I am not saying balance should be around the top 100 players but it is a very good indication of what works and what doesn't in the mode, as it is meant to be played. I am pretty sure that ANET can check how many rangers are playing overall and whats their average win percentage - the result will be very similar.

Now, let's assume that in the lower tier (where are the majority of players) there are a lot more rangers than in the top 100 (or 250). Considering the mechanic of the PvP game mode that introduces rank progression (which is basically the point of the ranked, excluding the fun), we can't skip the obvious question: Why these rangers can't get the same % of players in higher tiers, like the rest of the professions? I know that some of you are here saying that the current ranger state is either balanced or still OP, that is why I am trying to understand your logic. Assuming the player base is equally spread across all different professions and all professions have an equal amount of good players, why would the leaderboards lack rangers?

[BRNBRITO.9624]

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

3. Raid -> excluding the support druid which is still essential for every raid, we can safely say that the ranger DPS doesn't shine and we can compare and see this at many websites, including snowcrows.

I assume you don't do PvE?

[Fueki.4753]

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@Fueki.4753 said:

@"bOTEB.1573"THISBalance should be based on top tier gameplayWould should any developer did balance around the top 1% or 2%?Those will

always

find ways to exploit any balance.Just because those people toy with something and make it

look

super strong doesn't mean it actually

is

too strong for the majority of people using it.

Balance is something that affects everyone and should be done to the advantage of as many players as possible.Balancing around the top percentages balances only their matches and leaves the rest even more unbalanced.Such a situation is objectively not to the advantage of as many players as possible.

Wait a minute. I am not saying balance should be around the top 100 players but it is a very good indication of what works and what doesn't in the mode, as it is meant to be played. I am pretty sure that ANET can check how many rangers are playing overall and whats their average win percentage - the result will be very similar.

Now, let's assume that in the lower tier (where are the majority of players) there are a lot more rangers than in the top 100 (or 250). Considering the mechanic of the PvP game mode that introduces rank progression (which is basically the point of the ranked, excluding the fun), we can't skip the obvious question: Why these rangers can't get the same % of players in higher tiers, like the rest of the professions? I know that some of you are here saying that the current ranger state is either balanced or still OP, that is why I am trying to understand your logic. Assuming the player base is equally spread across all different professions and all professions have an equal amount of good players, why would the leaderboards lack rangers?

Considering how low the player count in PvP is, it doesn't even make sense to split PvP into tiers anymore, since low plat players are matched with silver players.As for the lack of Rangers in leaderboards, I attribute that to the lack of exploitable features on Rangers.While Rangers had over-performing features (like the Rock Gazelle dealing 11k damage on top of the CC), it doesn't seem to have any features that are downright exploitable like the semi-permanent evasion spam Mirage used to have.

[Murshid.9854]

@"Fueki.4753" said:Considering how low the player count in PvP is, it doesn't even make sense to split PvP into tiers anymore, since low plat players are matched with silver players.

So you mean that we should nerf a class/e-spec that is can get counterable and its normally counterable by good players just cause people at lower tier level can't counter it? I really don't want to sound silly but at this situation those asking for nerfs on counterable class/e-spec should be responded to with "git gud" rather than nerfing those class/e-spec cause they are counterable but those crying about them are not good enough to counter them or they didn't devote any time/effort to train themselves against them, and also we should respect the fact that each class/e-spec do have their roles and ranger supposed to be the 1v1 duelist so why cry on ranger single target damage? its the only role left for the class with all druid nerfs ranger can't support and have no reliable AoE damage, the only thing left is single target damage and they are not even the best on it.

[Sandzibar.5134]

@Murshid.9854 said:

@"Fueki.4753" said:Considering how low the player count in PvP is, it doesn't even make sense to split PvP into tiers anymore, since low plat players are matched with silver players.

So you mean that we should nerf a class/e-spec that is can get counterable and its normally counterable by good players just cause people at lower tier level can't counter it? I really don't want to sound silly but at this situation those asking for nerfs on counterable class/e-spec should be responded to with "git gud" rather than nerfing those class/e-spec cause they are counterable but those crying about them are not good enough to counter them or they didn't devote any time/effort to train themselves against them, and also we should respect the fact that each class/e-spec do have their roles and ranger supposed to be the 1v1 duelist so why cry on ranger single target damage? its the only role left for the class with all druid nerfs ranger can't support and have no reliable AoE damage, the only thing left is single target damage and they are not even the best on it.

That's not how forums work - and forums seemingly drive the devs balance agenda.

So the squeakiest wheel gets to swing the nerf bat regardless of actual reality.

[Fueki.4753]

@Murshid.9854 said:

@"Fueki.4753" said:Considering how low the player count in PvP is, it doesn't even make sense to split PvP into tiers anymore, since low plat players are matched with silver players.

So you mean that we should nerf a class/e-spec that is can get counterable and its normally counterable by good players just cause people at lower tier level can't counter it? I really don't want to sound silly but at this situation those asking for nerfs on counterable class/e-spec should be responded to with "git gud" rather than nerfing those class/e-spec cause they are counterable but those crying about them are not good enough to counter them or they didn't devote any time/effort to train themselves against them, and also we should respect the fact that each class/e-spec do have their roles and ranger supposed to be the 1v1 duelist so why cry on ranger single target damage? its the only role left for the class with all druid nerfs ranger can't support and have no reliable AoE damage, the only thing left is single target damage and they are not even the best on it.

Balance should neither revolve around top end nor low end players, but around the average.Balancing around the average makes it better for the majority of players, since that's the level were most players are at.Balancing around the top end makes no sense, because they will always find a way to exploit things, even if things were tailored towards them.Tailoring towards low end players make no sense for GW2 either, because that would homogenize all professions and end in a pointless "I hit you first, so I win" situation.

But we know that Arenanet doesn't even try to balance in the first place, as their changes-for-the-sake-of-changes are quite the opposite of balance.I doubt Arenanet even is interested in balance, as the latest changes patch made the prior existing problems even bigger, instead of trying to fix them.

Also, "git gud" should never be a reasonable response.If someone whines and accuses a mechanic of over-performance, tell them how to counter it, rather than almost literally spitting a "git gud" in their face.

[Moira Shalaar.5620]

I am going to paste my response in a similar thread:—————@Moira Shalaar.5620 said:The issue is that Rangers have a high burst damage, but very low sustain damage. That means that we can hit hard for very brief time and then almost nothing for the next 20-30 seconds while our burst skills are on cool down. Other classes can't necessarily hit that hard burst, but can sustain a higher DPS over all. But in order to really maximize the burst damage on a soulbeast, that means traits, pets and skill choices to maximize that burst potential, leaving the soulbeast also more vulnerable to sustain damage without mitigation. The very definition of glass cannon.

However, now that everybody has complained about the soulbeast burst damage and are quite satisfied with it being heavily nerfed, what is left is a bursty class whose burst damage is in line with everybody else, but whose sustain damage is LOWER than everybody else, and we have to give up all of our mitigation traits and skills just to get the bursty damage that others can enjoy while still keeping decent sustain damage AND mitigation.

—————-

[Moira Shalaar.5620]

@"Valar Dotalis.6409" said:Screenshot of a damage log I took on March 14.

When we see these screenshot proofs we are only seeing a snapshot of the fight which itself is a small encapsulated portion of gameplay. They do not provide a complete picture of the entire gameplay involved. there CLEARLY is might sharing going on given the symbol of punishment damage. But also this doesn’t show the ranger’s wind up, getting that kind of damage is a lot more than just “pressing f3”. There are things that build up to pressing f3 that all contribute to this kind of damage. The screen shot doesn’t show any of that. During that windup phase interrupts are key pieces in counter play, or stealth/invulnerability. Chill is also a real downer for rangers at any time.

Neither does this screen shot and others like it show the near entire lack of damage mitigation that is needed to pull this off (glass cannon) meaning that there were durability sacrifices made to get that damage. It does not show the extended cooldown that the ranger has AFTER blowing all its damage potential in a few hard hits.

But most of all players aren’t supposed to act like NPCs. This ranger was making use of OTHER game mechanics to maximize damage. The person posting this was on a warclaw so they were trying to avoid combat with the ranger or did not see the ranger. Almost certainly this means conceding a flanking bonus. When they were dismounted the game does a knockdown penalty which concedes to the ranger another damage bonus. Just by how this person chose to play they handed the ranger an opportunity to play to its greatest strengths while doing nothingThis post shows that this player was being at least double teamed, making best use of both classes. The guardian was there buffing the ranger so that the ranger could maximize DPS. The ranger was left alone to pull off the combination of skills necessary, THAT is why these numbers are so high. But ofc no one posts any of those kinds of details to supplement their screenshots with a full context.

EditI encourage anyone posting this kind of screen shot to go hand similar advantages to a glassy Berserker or Dragonhunter in the same timeframe (that includes unimpeded wind up time) and see if you don't see similar results, and yes many "high packet/lower damage in a very short timeframe" does count (i.e. Warrior Axe 5 or DH symbol + GS2 + trap simultaneously).