Cantha and Elder Dragons, fun theory for the future.

[EdwinLi.1284]

Welp they just added the ability to ride Skimmer mount underwater. Why am I getting a feeling Underwater will be a big theme in Cantha Expansion :p

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

@EdwinLi.1284 said:Welp they just added the ability to ride Skimmer mount underwater. Why am I getting a feeling Underwater will be a big theme in Cantha Expansion :pIf Cantha has any underwater content its going to be totally divorced from mounts, and the Skimmer. Each expansion is made to work totally independent of each other. PoF had none of the HoT masteries for instance, and LWS4 didn't need HoT masteries to function either.

They wouldn't design the Canthan Xpack to require something from HoT to get around.

[EdwinLi.1284]

@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

@EdwinLi.1284 said:Welp they just added the ability to ride Skimmer mount underwater. Why am I getting a feeling Underwater will be a big theme in Cantha Expansion :pIf Cantha has any underwater content its going to be totally divorced from mounts, and the Skimmer. Each expansion is made to work totally independent of each other. PoF had none of the HoT masteries for instance, and LWS4 didn't need HoT masteries to function either.

They wouldn't design the Canthan Xpack to require something from HoT to get around.

I think you forget the old expansion stuff is usually only there to give players slight advantage in certain things that would normally require a Mastery from the current expansion. It won't replace the new Expansion Mastery functions but it provides alternate source of movement around certain obstacles a player may need from a current expansion Mastery.

Not all mastery will be used but certain ones will remain relevent as alternate methods for some of the new Masteries. Gliding for example, covers part of the Griffin's mount functions in PoF for players who did not or can't afford to get Griffin but if they wanted something beyond the Griffin's gliding fucntion they need to get the mount itself.

For PoF mounts, they are most likely still going to be used a lot in Cantha expansion for their mobility and functions to help reach certain areas that can most likely still be reached with the new Cantha Mastery. So it becomes a choice, unlock Cantha Mastery to reach X and Y location easily, find a alternate root by foot, or use Mounts to take a slightly longer route using their mount functions but faster than going on foot.

Another possible function is Skimmer's new ability. If Cantha is based on Deep Sea Dragon then we can expect underwater Mastery that may improve mobility underwater but of course players must first unlock the Mastery first. However, with Skimmer it acts as a alternate method of traveling underwater without that Cantha Mastery but only slightly less effective since most likely the Cantha Swimming Master may be designed to be more effective travel than Skimmer or it may improves Skimmer's mobility with the Player's swimming ability as well so in combat Players can swim more effectively since they can't use the skimmer during combat but outside of combat skimmer will be best used due to the additonal improvements the skimmer gets from the new swimming mastery.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

@EdwinLi.1284 said:Welp they just added the ability to ride Skimmer mount underwater. Why am I getting a feeling Underwater will be a big theme in Cantha Expansion :pIf Cantha has any underwater content its going to be totally divorced from mounts, and the Skimmer. Each expansion is made to work totally independent of each other. PoF had none of the HoT masteries for instance, and LWS4 didn't need HoT masteries to function either.

They wouldn't design the Canthan Xpack to require something from HoT to get around.

This may not continue though. They made a point of patching HoT into PoF for Icebrood Saga, and we're seeing a small return of HoT, PoF, and S4 masteries in Bjora and Drizzlewood. Most notable is a slow increase of using bouncing mushrooms - there's quite a few in Drizzlewood while there were only a small handful in Bjora; similarly, they added quite a few karmic volatile nodes in Drizzlewood with Jormag Rising, and all three S5 maps have a heavy use of mounts (unsurprisingly) - even having skyscale rifts and rollerbeetle walls. They even brought back ley-line gliding with Jormag Rising, and had updrafts in Bjora Marches.

It would not surprise me if they decide to package HoT - or both HoT and PoF - into the third expansion. Especially if Episode 5's map has continued use of HoT and PoF masteries.

I won't expect much - if anything - in the way of S3, S4, or S5 masteries in the third expansion, but I could see base HoT and PoF masteries being used, which would mean mounts, gliding, and mushrooms in particular.

And in truth, this would be a smart move, as you'd otherwise just be reinventing the wheel again and again, like what PoF ended up having to do with the diverse uses of mounts, particularly the jackal which is basically just a mounted nuhoch wallow for all its otherwise usefulness over raptor.

[galen ubal.2807]

Heh. Just had a fun idea.The Commander gets word that a powerful Canthan guild, or the Canthan military, has decided to take out DSD. They haven't got a Taimi equivalent, so they have no idea how very bad an idea that is. The Commander gets to go down to Cantha to talk them out of it. Things...don't go so well.Alternately, all hell starts breaking loose, and we find out that a Canthan force has already taken out the DSD - now we get to go down there to try to fix it.Not terribly serious about this, but it would be a nice twist.

[Eekasqueak.7850]

Honestly the next expansion might even expand mounts, there's not much in the way of things left to add.

[Teratus.2859]

@Eekasqueak.7850 said:Honestly the next expansion might even expand mounts, there's not much in the way of things left to add.

I'm curious how the next expansion will handle masteries but I hope no more mounts will come about now that skimmer is going UW.

I don't have enough hotkeys for anymore xD

[Eekasqueak.7850]

@Teratus.2859 said:

@Eekasqueak.7850 said:Honestly the next expansion might even expand mounts, there's not much in the way of things left to add.

I'm curious how the next expansion will handle masteries but I hope no more mounts will come about now that skimmer is going UW.

I don't have enough hotkeys for anymore xD

I was just thinking possible new mount abilities if anything. They might just design maps around mounts and gliding, I'd love more functionality for the latter like we get in bloodstone fen.

[Teratus.2859]

@Eekasqueak.7850 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:

@Eekasqueak.7850 said:Honestly the next expansion might even expand mounts, there's not much in the way of things left to add.

I'm curious how the next expansion will handle masteries but I hope no more mounts will come about now that skimmer is going UW.

I don't have enough hotkeys for anymore xD

I was just thinking possible new mount abilities if anything. They might just design maps around mounts and gliding, I'd love more functionality for the latter like we get in bloodstone fen.

I would be all for that.. although Anet have a habit of cutting out old masteries for new ones upon each expansion.

Without PoF there would be no mount access so expanding mounts in the next expansion, and designing Cantha around existing mounts would only really work if PoF came free with it upon launch like Konig said.If it doesn't Anet are going to have to make a lot of design choices based around players who might not have the last 2 expansions and their masteries.. basically the same thing they did with PoF.

That said though, mounts have become extremely dominant in Gw2.. so I really don't think Anet could get away with restricting them in the next expansion.I'm far more inclined to expect that they will design Cantha with existing mounts in mind and probably go with the free PoF option.. or at least give players an alternative means of obtaining specific PoF mounts in Cantha.But that would be messy in terms of the mastery system and upgrading their current abilities without access to those PoF mastery points.

There's no way I could see them disable mount use there.. people would be outraged lolAnd I can't see them trying to replace mounts with new masteries that do the same thing.. kinda like what they did with HoT masteries and mounts in some ways.. same functions but portable.Griffon/Glider: Self explanatory really, can glide anywhere and you won't require a high point start anymore.Springer/Bouncing Mushroom: Literally a portable Bounching Mushroom mount when you think about it.Jackel/Wallows: As Konig pointed out this mount acts basically as a ridable key for what is PoF's version of a Nuhoch Wallow.Skimmer/Itzel Poison Lore: Can call this a stretch if you like but Skimmers primary function is to grant safe passage over toxic terrain like brand spikes and quicksand, Itzel Poison Lore is pretty much the same thing.. a mastery that allows you to traverse toxic terrain that would otherwise damage and kill you.Raptor too kinda does the same thing as a glider does only on level surfaces, we'd normally use a glider to cross a gap in the past but couldn't if point A and B were the same hight, Raptor can can get around that so long as point A is higher or equal in hight to point B.

So yeah mounts are in a lot of was portable variations of similar abilities in HoT, but due to their popularity I can't see Anet replacing them in the next X-pack without severe backlash from most players.Likewise they also couldn't just rehash those abilities with new mounts either.. that would be very lazy and would also annoy a lot of people.So im gonna have to agree with Konig and think that bundling PoF and probably HoT into the next expansion is the smartest choice to go with, at the very least it will give them more creative freedom to design Canthan maps with the mounts in mind.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@Eekasqueak.7850 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:

@Eekasqueak.7850 said:Honestly the next expansion might even expand mounts, there's not much in the way of things left to add.

I'm curious how the next expansion will handle masteries but I hope no more mounts will come about now that skimmer is going UW.

I don't have enough hotkeys for anymore xD

I was just thinking possible new mount abilities if anything. They might just design maps around mounts and gliding, I'd love more functionality for the latter like we get in bloodstone fen.

Yeah, underwater mount was pretty much the last viable mount option for this game, and since they're adding it to skimmer instead of a new mount, just wouldn't make sense for more mounts to be added.

We do have one more slot for mount skills (elite slot), three if we count skill slots 2 and 3 (warclaw takes these up but it isn't affected by pve masteries anyways), but I bet Icebrood Saga will cover that.

[Bast.7253]

@galen ubal.2807 said:Heh. Just had a fun idea.The Commander gets word that a powerful Canthan guild, or the Canthan military, has decided to take out DSD. They haven't got a Taimi equivalent, so they have no idea how very bad an idea that is. The Commander gets to go down to Cantha to talk them out of it. Things...don't go so well.Alternately, all hell starts breaking loose, and we find out that a Canthan force has already taken out the DSD - now we get to go down there to try to fix it.Not terribly serious about this, but it would be a nice twist.

I want to see the DSD and don't really want it to be killed off screen for the potential of a really cool underwater elder dragon battle, BUT, it would be neat if we found out that the Canthan empire had figured out how to kill an elder dragon and harness its magic for technological advancements. And we wind up finding some super advanced urban cityscape for Kaening instead of huts.

Maybe we can still take this approach, but instead it can be Primordus. Everyone thinks they're setting up Primordus but it would be funny if we're led to attack it because of Jormag and wind up finding out it tunneled down to Cantha and got turned into a giant battery.

[Tyson.5160]

@Bast.7253 said:

@galen ubal.2807 said:Heh. Just had a fun idea.The Commander gets word that a powerful Canthan guild, or the Canthan military, has decided to take out DSD. They haven't got a Taimi equivalent, so they have no idea how very bad an idea that is. The Commander gets to go down to Cantha to talk them out of it. Things...don't go so well.Alternately, all hell starts breaking loose, and we find out that a Canthan force has already taken out the DSD - now we get to go down there to try to fix it.Not terribly serious about this, but it would be a nice twist.

I want to see the DSD and don't really want it to be killed off screen for the potential of a really cool underwater elder dragon battle, BUT, it would be neat if we found out that the Canthan empire had figured out how to kill an elder dragon and harness its magic for technological advancements. And we wind up finding some super advanced urban cityscape for Kaening instead of huts.

Maybe we can still take this approach, but instead it can be Primordus. Everyone thinks they're setting up Primordus but it would be funny if we're led to attack it because of Jormag and wind up finding out it tunneled down to Cantha and got turned into a giant battery.

I honestly suspect that eventually we will fight the DSD outside of the water as a way to get it out of its main magical sphere as it makes sense tactically.

[Teratus.2859]

@Tyson.5160 said:

@Bast.7253 said:

@galen ubal.2807 said:Heh. Just had a fun idea.The Commander gets word that a powerful Canthan guild, or the Canthan military, has decided to take out DSD. They haven't got a Taimi equivalent, so they have no idea how very bad an idea that is. The Commander gets to go down to Cantha to talk them out of it. Things...don't go so well.Alternately, all hell starts breaking loose, and we find out that a Canthan force has already taken out the DSD - now we get to go down there to try to fix it.Not terribly serious about this, but it would be a nice twist.

I want to see the DSD and don't really want it to be killed off screen for the potential of a really cool underwater elder dragon battle, BUT, it would be neat if we found out that the Canthan empire had figured out how to kill an elder dragon and harness its magic for technological advancements. And we wind up finding some super advanced urban cityscape for Kaening instead of huts.

Maybe we can still take this approach, but instead it can be Primordus. Everyone thinks they're setting up Primordus but it would be funny if we're led to attack it because of Jormag and wind up finding out it tunneled down to Cantha and got turned into a giant battery.

I honestly suspect that eventually we will fight the DSD outside of the water as a way to get it out of its main magical sphere as it makes sense tactically.

I believe so too, though personally I would love a multi phase fight where we fight it in both elements.

[Tyson.5160]

@Teratus.2859 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@Bast.7253 said:

@galen ubal.2807 said:Heh. Just had a fun idea.The Commander gets word that a powerful Canthan guild, or the Canthan military, has decided to take out DSD. They haven't got a Taimi equivalent, so they have no idea how very bad an idea that is. The Commander gets to go down to Cantha to talk them out of it. Things...don't go so well.Alternately, all hell starts breaking loose, and we find out that a Canthan force has already taken out the DSD - now we get to go down there to try to fix it.Not terribly serious about this, but it would be a nice twist.

I want to see the DSD and don't really want it to be killed off screen for the potential of a really cool underwater elder dragon battle, BUT, it would be neat if we found out that the Canthan empire had figured out how to kill an elder dragon and harness its magic for technological advancements. And we wind up finding some super advanced urban cityscape for Kaening instead of huts.

Maybe we can still take this approach, but instead it can be Primordus. Everyone thinks they're setting up Primordus but it would be funny if we're led to attack it because of Jormag and wind up finding out it tunneled down to Cantha and got turned into a giant battery.

I honestly suspect that eventually we will fight the DSD outside of the water as a way to get it out of its main magical sphere as it makes sense tactically.

I believe so too, though personally I would love a multi phase fight where we fight it in both elements.

Ooooo maybe a fight on the deck of the boat, then in the water...

[Teratus.2859]

@Tyson.5160 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@Bast.7253 said:

@galen ubal.2807 said:Heh. Just had a fun idea.The Commander gets word that a powerful Canthan guild, or the Canthan military, has decided to take out DSD. They haven't got a Taimi equivalent, so they have no idea how very bad an idea that is. The Commander gets to go down to Cantha to talk them out of it. Things...don't go so well.Alternately, all hell starts breaking loose, and we find out that a Canthan force has already taken out the DSD - now we get to go down there to try to fix it.Not terribly serious about this, but it would be a nice twist.

I want to see the DSD and don't really want it to be killed off screen for the potential of a really cool underwater elder dragon battle, BUT, it would be neat if we found out that the Canthan empire had figured out how to kill an elder dragon and harness its magic for technological advancements. And we wind up finding some super advanced urban cityscape for Kaening instead of huts.

Maybe we can still take this approach, but instead it can be Primordus. Everyone thinks they're setting up Primordus but it would be funny if we're led to attack it because of Jormag and wind up finding out it tunneled down to Cantha and got turned into a giant battery.

I honestly suspect that eventually we will fight the DSD outside of the water as a way to get it out of its main magical sphere as it makes sense tactically.

I believe so too, though personally I would love a multi phase fight where we fight it in both elements.

Ooooo maybe a fight on the deck of the boat, then in the water...

Yea man exactly the kinda thing I was thinking off.

In my head I have a fight in mind where there are several small islands about (Jade ones since in my mind the fight takes place in the Jade Sea XD) and the Sea Dragon has 3 heads (which was kinda hinted at with some concept art)So people would have to split up on the islands and attack all 3 heads at once.

Once all 3 heads take 50% damage they retreat underwater where the groups must follow them and fight their way past a bunch of minions.2 of the Heads will coil up and regenerate while the third will get enraged, take severely reduced damage and attack the players along side the minions.Once the head has been dropped to 1-5% the Dragon sends out a shockwave that pushes everyone away and forces them to swim back to the islands.

The 3 heads come back out of the water and start charging up a big insta kill blast attack on the islands, they must be CC'd to stop this.Once the severely damaged head is CC'd it' gets attacked by something.. either a big seige weapon or Aurine or and airship canon or something big and powerful.This finishes off the weakened head and completely decapitates it.

Rince and repeat with the other heads to either kill the dragon or force it to retreat for another battle later, kind alike what they did with Kralkatorrik having you fight him several times.

That's pretty much what's in my mind lolI doubt it'll be anything like that though XD

The main flaw I know with it is the lack of melee accessability.Only thing I could think of there is that the heads come up through a chunk of jade so there would be something melee guys could stand on and attack the heads directly.

[EdwinLi.1284]

I doubt we will see DSD killed off screen by the Canthans since every story build up has already lead right into a fight with a Elder dragon. However, if we are discussing the possibility of Cantha having advance technology with the secret to their tech is that it is being powered by DSD Magical Energy.

The best guess I have, if Cantha manage to defeat the DSD, is that they only chained him so they can harvest the DSD magical energy to power their technology.

Of course there is most likely go wrong with this idea such as being exposed to that energy for too long may corrupt the user and the current Cantha Emperor may be covering this up for REASONS due to how dependent Cantha's Society is with this Technology. Of course they will have to start the story with this being unknown to the characters and player base and only view the Canthan technology as a mystery to how it works and what magical energy they may be using to power the technology. Only after a certain amount of time pass in the Main Storyline should this be revealed that the DSD is in chains and their secret super magic energy that powers their tech is actually Elder Dragon Energy and it is slowly corrupting the people of Cantha because use of the technology is very slowly corrupting them. Not as fast as direct corruption as it could take years for them to be fully corrupted but it is a slow process through years of exposure to a point the ignorant people will mistaken it as a mental disease common among people as they get older.

However, since the people of Cantha can't abaddon their technology due to how it is incorporated in every aspect of their life, the Commander and his/her allies most likely end up searching for a alternate source of magical energy that is compatible with the Cantha technology so they can end the slow DSD corrupt on Cantha's people.

[EdwinLi.1284]

Looks like Cantha may focus on the DSD after all boys and girls!

[Tyson.5160]

@EdwinLi.1284 said:Looks like Cantha may focus on the DSD after all boys and girls!

Definitely seems that way, with a title like that.

[Teratus.2859]

Indeed im very excited ^^

[Bast.7253]

Not the DSD we're thinking of though I bet. Its replacement justifying the cycle.

Yin and Yang - Kunavang and Albax. One side for ending the cycle, one for continuing it.

[Bast.7253]

Also, in terms of the new fractal - "The elements are thrown out of whack" and we learn more about what's it. Some of it isn't gameplay but ambient storytelling.

So, just tossing this in there, but could the events of this fractal be placed after the DSD was defeated? Its defeat causing the elements to act the way they do in this fractal similar to how the excess release of magic from the bloodstone and the killing of the current elder dragons created this influx of magic that drove people to insanity?