Rating rework

[nevermore.6193]

As pvp currently stands in half dead state and players have steadily left past months there is issue of inflation that needs to be addressed.Currently winning game at higher rating gives you +8-11 at good times or even as low as +3-5 while losing usually ends up in -14 - 20.People now have number of alt accounts to q ranked pvp mainly because of how discouraging current rating system stands while creating more inflation in available rating.Im fairly sure alot of current active players agree on creating more static rating gain and loss ratios, Losing 20 rating from one game and then having to win 2-3 games to be at 0 gain is unacceptable when games current state is disaster anyway. Smilyface

[DoomNexus.5324]

@"Divsen.9864" said:Currently winning game at higher rating gives you +8-11 at good times or even as low as +3-5 while losing usually ends up in -14 - 20.People now have number of alt accounts to q ranked pvp

My guess would be that you and or those people in question are at least plat1 or plat2?If so then this is understandable and to be expected from the matchmaking.. Since the population is so low you are likely to play against people who are ranked way lower than you. Which in return means you are supposed to win those matches. Changing this to a "more static rating" would just cause the MM to be even less effective since it can't change the fact that there are just less people in higher skill groups to match you against.People in Legendary even got +0 from wins sooo... ye..The thing is that the bad rating is not causing anything but is rather a result of the low playerbase, so I'd argue that Anet should first and foremost focus on new features and stuff for people to actually stay in PvP other than rewards or other temporary incentives. Because this just promotes everyone and their dog to get into pvp, play through horribly tedious matches and possibly throw them just to eventually get to the loot while ruining every competitive player's matches (at least if they happen to be on their team).Even if it's just a separate full team queue for example to give PvP guilds a reason to exist. You know... because if you want to support a large playerbase you have to have features in place a large playerbase can make use of.. If everything just gets tailored towards a low population then it can't grow in the first place..

But Anet has no interest in PvP anyway so I don't think there will be any changes.

[Bazsi.2734]

Whats the point though? The ladder still reflects your performance in relation to other players. Those above average rating must maintain a positive winrate to remain there. The higher you are, the more insane your winrate must be, it's just math.The playerbase shrunk, so ratings also shrink, there is nothing that needs adressing here.

[Dantheman.3589]

My problem with the current system isn’t that it doesn’t reflect your skill level as I think my skill level is plat3-legend 1 and that’s where I end up. But to do this I generally have to be conservative, play my strongest stuff and meta game with a good duo who probably wants to q dodge. The problem with this is I have zero fun and I know most ppl in top 10 do the same thing, but if we had a pure league based system I could play basically whatever I want as long as it’s strong and still climb.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

I think you're totally right tbh. It's all RNG right now. Literally the only thing that determines your gains/losses is who the matchmaker puts you with and against.

As the population gets lower it starts to get more and more obvious and less rewarding. Like, you wouldn't feel or notice this very often in plat1 a couple years back, but now it treats people barely in the top 250 like they're in the top 10. If you aren't used to having to win 2-3 games to make up for losing 1, it's probably very jarring and frustrating.

Most other competitive games use a combination of average ratings(like gw2), personal performance(how well you did in the role you filled), and win/loss streaks to determine how much you gain at the end of a match so that the person playing still has some agency over their own rating.

There's still a ton of luck involved, and the gains usually always slow down as you get higher on the ladder, but skill at least plays some part there.

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

@Multicolorhipster.9751 said:I think you're totally right tbh. It's all RNG right now. Literally the only thing that determines your gains/losses is who the matchmaker puts you with and against.

As the population gets lower it starts to get more and more obvious and less rewarding. Like, you wouldn't feel or notice this very often in plat1 a couple years back, but now it treats people barely in the top 250 like they're in the top 10. If you aren't used to having to win 2-3 games to make up for losing 1, it's probably very jarring and frustrating.

Most other competitive games use a combination of average ratings(like gw2), personal performance(how well you did in the role you filled), and win/loss streaks to determine how much you gain at the end of a match so that the person playing still has some agency over their own rating.

There's still a ton of luck involved, and the gains usually always slow down as you get higher on the ladder, but skill at least plays some part there.

A) Rating:Well yes I posted about the rating system and how incompetent it is in 2 different threads I think and explained it how it is done in other game (like you said).The current system in GW2 only advantage is in maximize the grind because from my experience you gain + 1 more when you win instead of lose with a 50/50 ratio you will at some point lose a game out of the order because your rating goes up and so the enemies get stronger. Let say you lose then 12 points to get those 12 points back you need to play then 24 rounds until you have the same scoring as before and make another try on your personal limit.

Okay this assumes everything works as intended and there is no randomness which is absolutely there. Actually there is no PvP game I know where you have less influence on the outcome as in GW 2.

B) Randomness:Yes in all PvP where you use some type of matchup system a random team on your side and a random team on the other side . What the problem is what they people bring into the Arena and what not .

1.) Completely outdated builds or builds that doesn't make sense On top of that people are proud to play them . Yes there are exception to this but it is really hard and if I give example people would jump into the thread and say hey I play that...

2.) Basically before those nerfs the reason why one side got killed in seconds was they haven't a healer in their group even now this cause problems because a part of the meta is extremely condi based . so if they have a build that cleans condi but not we and we both playing condi this ends most of the time bad for those they don't have a cleaner.

3.) Builds which people would call in WvW Roamer , Mesmer, Ranger, Thief, Weaver. One of them is okay , two is still doable but starts to be hard ,three of them ' okay guys our chance to win is now under 15% (from a table I made )'. Yes you can still win but you need to change your strategy and people need to be good in 1:1 . The main problem with those builds are they have no synergy which means player who play them are mostly off center , they rarely give boons , they don't revive boons because they are not near the others also like thief some builds hardly gains anything by reviving boons.

c)BalanceOkay now the people who trash healer and boons will come out of the woodwork because I said what they criticize. I can only say wrong this is an MMORPG you have healers inside it and boons . Otherwise this would be something else and those are more or less core elements of the game . What is different in GW2 is the amount of aoe, cc and condis at least from an action game perspective this is way too much and in other MMORPGS there are only 1 to 2 classes who have more then access to 1 aoe mainly some kind of mage classes it an ironie that they went for those builds first in this game to reduce the amount of aoe.

From the original design what they did to solve this was implementing an anti-pattern to the aoe . Which was everyone gives boons the same way aoe does limited time , limited range and for vanilla it was more even around the classes. Yes with E specs this became different yes FB spams boons but the same time what nobody noticed they nerfed and removed abilities from the other classes to give boons making stuff like this highly specialist and sought after. With removing this too the game feels hallowed out because 90% of the game class mechanics focus around aoe and boons.

D)Basically another rating system and at least a way to pick your team composition or teach the people how to reroll . Actually there is more to the topic balance there is also a side where high end players and premade groups in other content are constantly pushed while the rest lays in the dirt.(with nerfed/no boons xD)

[Ragnar.4257]

@Multicolorhipster.9751 said:I think you're totally right tbh. It's all RNG right now. Literally the only thing that determines your gains/losses is who the matchmaker puts you with and against.

As the population gets lower it starts to get more and more obvious and less rewarding. Like, you wouldn't feel or notice this very often in plat1 a couple years back, but now it treats people barely in the top 250 like they're in the top 10. If you aren't used to having to win 2-3 games to make up for losing 1, it's probably very jarring and frustrating.

Most other competitive games use a combination of average ratings(like gw2), personal performance(how well you did in the role you filled), and win/loss streaks to determine how much you gain at the end of a match so that the person playing still has some agency over their own rating.

There's still a ton of luck involved, and the gains usually always slow down as you get higher on the ladder, but skill at least plays some part there.

He literally didn't say anything about RNG or luck. You have a very tunneled vision.

[Dantheman.3589]

Adding onto what I’ve said before I’d like to point out that like 90% of ppl who got rank 1 title etc on NA in the past what idk 5 seasons? Quiet literally got there by duoing with the same person on multiple alts, playing the most op builds and at around 4 am for every one of their 120 matches, so that they would purposely be put in gold level matches. If it makes you feel prideful that “god of the arena” is a title that means not appearing online once in a season and never playing against another high rated duo than idk what to say. I would think a healthy system would be like 1 person in the top ten at most playing like this, but the reality is it’s most of them and at least on Na it’s all the top competitors.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

@Ragnar.4257 said:He literally didn't say anything about RNG or luck. You have a very tunneled vision.

Wym? To even talk about rating in Gw2 is to talk about RNG/luck because that's all it is.

[phokus.8934]

@Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:He literally didn't say anything about RNG or luck. You have a very tunneled vision.

Wym? To even talk about rating in Gw2 is to talk about RNG/luck because that's all it is.

Rating and matchmaker are not to be used interchangeably. Glicko2 is used for rating and whatever ruleset ANet uses for their matchmaker are two different systems working together.

[Vancho.8750]

@phokus.8934 said:

@Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:He literally didn't say anything about RNG or luck. You have a very tunneled vision.

Wym? To even talk about rating in Gw2 is to talk about RNG/luck because that's all it is.

Rating and matchmaker are not to be used interchangeably. Glicko2 is used for rating and whatever ruleset ANet uses for their matchmaker are two different systems working together.There is a mechanic of the matchmaker that puts you in harder games so you are the highest rated player there, so you get phases you get some good matchups and if you win you get into the other phase that you are the strongest player on your team and after a while you get free wins and this cycles, this was less evident before because the skill deviation was not that great and 100 points of difference was not that big and everyone was somewhat equal mechanically, now we have players in the same division with wildly huge difference in skill both players have the same rating but for some reason one of them is clearly performing way better. We have problem with the population, but not the general one, we have issue with the population that gives a s hit. This was easily fixed when new expansion came since you get new content with new elite specs, but Arenanet opted out of that and PVP is going stale, cause there is not much mechanical shake up going on, even mechanical rework on some 'dead' specks would have helped to make the wait for the next expansion bearable.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

@phokus.8934 said:Rating and matchmaker are not to be used interchangeably. Glicko2 is used for rating and whatever ruleset ANet uses for their matchmaker are two different systems working together.

I mean, i'm still gonna.

Literally the one thing that determines rating is the matchmaking; both for your team, and the other team. Nothing anyone does in match actually contributes to the rating gain/loss. It is all pre-decided and RNG.

You really can't talk about one without at least inadvertently talking about the other because if matchmaking is bad for whatever reason(IE dwindling player base) then rating gains/losses are also going to suck for anyone who sticks around. Likewise if rating gains/losses are taking like 2-3 wins to make up for 1 loss, that's a sign of consistently bad matchmaking unless you're a god gamer in the top 10 and everyone you face is lower rating than you.

[Goldilock.2584]

It should be a even 10 win or loose no matter the match up. It’s suppor annoying winning 3 games in row +6 then 1 loss of 20 lol

[stobes.9254]

Getting a little bit fed up having to play against the top players as a gold league. Im willing to wait the extra time for a propper matchup, but instead i lose 15 points to double premades consisting of players in top 20. Thanks anet, now fix your matchmaking please.

[Scykosix.7836]

@stobes.9254 said:Getting a little bit fed up having to play against the top players as a gold league. Im willing to wait the extra time for a propper matchup, but instead i lose 15 points to double premades consisting of players in top 20. Thanks anet, now fix your matchmaking please.

Having exactly the same problem. Playing vs top 50 double premades, games go 500-20 and i lose 15. When a game is 450-500 i win 6. It feels like the opposite of how a balanced system should work. Absolute stomp, u win / lose tripple the amount of a close game.