ThunderX.6591

I tested yestarday on Golem, and my result are 1k - 1.5k less dps then before.............. same build as always, but before, i was doing near 18k (17.5k around), now i struggle to stay in the 16.5k range, and if i use only 1, i stop around 15k. Until the test, i, for sure, though that the DPS in PVE was similar to the old one, BUT that wasn't the case after doing the tests. That is why i am waiting some Snowcrow or similar test on rifle Mecha now, to see the real change to it. (pre patch was around 32+k if i remember right) So, can be a bug, can be a real nerf to it cause we do 2 hit instead of 3 (base damage lost), or something else, who know........

Please, more detail on the skill and traits used, 5+k is big, and on paper, as written in some other posts, dps FB simple lost a lot of "damage" with tome usage and trait change, so i really want to understand what he is using to get this extra dps. (i was using the extra burning on CC trait (now changed to give only boons), and the F1 regen on kill for restore F1 tomes (full page) that now don't work anymore, and so, my dps is really bad now)

Every class with literally every weapons can do something like this if 10+ years of game expansion didn't stop it randomly, even the pistol engi build...... (the literally unusable engi pistol build that people talk about) can do it, so i don't understand the purpose of the post in itself.

I was talking about PVE, didn't really test the rifle in PVP, cause my first try was literally 2 second alive each rounds in 2Vs2 against an HOLO (he killed me that fast every time he get meele on me for all 3 rounds)

You never see a Virtuoso or an Harbringer at work in game, right? They literally bypass any pure dps FB with extra bonus to spare, but noone talk about their OP (over 35k+ dps)....., and the TOP pure FB DPS was capped around what i write in my post (32k - 33k), but if you provide tomes boons your DPS plummet totally under 30k (more like 25k if you are really good, and all of this before the patch), but now, the F1 source of dps is nerfed (we spend more page for some skill, before was always 1 page for a skill), we lost extra damage from trait changed (Stoic Demeanor) to some might boon and resistance.................. and F1 regen on kill appear to not work with the new tome mechanics................. i see a big big devastation here, not a simple nerf. (obviously, like i wrote before, i will wait some Snowcrow or similar test to see how is the class now, but on paper and from some "fast test", the dps part of the class appear "cancelled") To Cuks, for support FB (HFB) as i sayd in my previous post, the change can be good for exactly what you explained, the problem (as write before) is all on DPS FB (condi variant, the power one was never a decent option or functional as spec).

PVE Rifle 1 damage wise with 2 hit isn't the same as the 3 hit version, the 2 hit get a damage nerf.......... (hope was an unwanted change the nerf to the damage side) We can only wait now in a future damage up, nothing else we can do about it.

Rifle Engi damage skill 1 was nerfed with the patch, that is the unfortunate true, apart the bad new animation that is really strange. We can only wait in a bonus up damage and a better smoth animation, nothing else we can do.

You need the movement-impairing condition like Cripple or CC like Daze, Stun and so on to activare Immobilize, at least as the note say, so maybee you missed them, or maybee a normal bug.

I add some experience from yestarday first 2Vs2 PVP.......... i used mecha, didn't have the time to change spec to the OP one now, was against an HOLO (the OP one spec now), Holo literally killed us in around 2 second even after usuing all skill to heal and reduce damage, for all the rounds......... Never happened before against an Holo class (at least all the other fight was balanced and a "fight", not a "spam button but die for sure whatever you do) kind of fight). And, Rifle is a BASE engi weapon, normally i use if on scrapper, mecha, core engi (Holo don't need it having proton Forge range trait) for PVP and PVE, so a nerf to the damage of 1 is a noticiable impact for all the specs.

The change can be kind of decent on a support build, cause you can circle faster on the support tomes now without the need to wait the cooldown to reuse them, but the problem is the dps side of FB...... the condi DPS side of it, that now is a lot slower and the trait Renewed Justice practically do nothing anymore for FB........... plus we lost Stoic Demeanor extra burning damage with the rework too, getting dps FB in a not good position for a class that before patch was around 32-33k dps max.......... (when other go around 38k). I will wait some Snowcrow or similar test to see how is the class now, but don't see it doing well as dps as of now.

Rifle, joy and harm of the engi class....... I though seeing the extra coefficient bonus given from moving from 3 to 2 hits, the damage would be near the same, obviously not more then the 3 hit have, but, near the same....... instead, even after that extra bonus, we ended getting a nerf to the dps as sayd, with even worse dps respect the original rifle damage (before the change to 3 hit). Hope in a fast up of the coefficient to get to normal dps again, and setting the animation right (appear not good and clunky i could say). We can only wait for it, nothing more. (atm, the weapon is bad, nothing more to say)

People are so focused in complaining to nerf Mecha (well the 4 people who complain about it write so many posts combined that from an external point of view, appear to be a lot more) that don't see the nerf to it even if someone write it in front of them.......... For the last 4 or 5 patches consecutive, Mecha get nerfed (Again) on the condi side (again) and on the barrier side now too (is a new nerf), plus some nerf to boons duration, just to add something extra, but like all the time, people don't understand it and think Mecha go buffed for a randon +5% on a skill that give better buff to scrapper or holosmith than the Mecha........ I tell you a secret, that boons don't affect the robot after the June patch, so what are you all talking about? Learning how a class work could help in playing the game better, and really, you need to check the buff to some classes, now they really have taken a bost in performance.

With the patch today, Mecha was nerfed (again) on the condi side (again) and on the barrier side (half the barrier from original now, a new nerf). Scrapper and holo was powered up (weapons powered up and some skills), but noone talk about them for now, noone talk about the Iboga ranger nerf, or about the powering up of some power build (that didn't need extra power, but get it, and for me, is ok, didn't bother me at all). On the Renegade part, he do a lot more than the Mecha, but, is a bit more complicated to use, cause you need to "move" in combat, because you are "more versatile" than a mecha that can only hit with mace for giving alac............ play renegade is a lot more "moving intensive" than a normal Mecha, that is the main difference. But for alac, Renegade is better than mecha, but Mecha have the robot, ehehehehe, and like i say all time, many people choose it because of the Robot. Is in the login window, the main selling point of EOD (robot and tecnology), and so, from a businnes point of view, they hit the jackpot, even if they are nerfing it constantly for the last 4 patch at least. But don't know, the Steam release if they continue with the nerfing could became a real nightmare for them.

Renegade Alac give 100% alac uptime and do decent damage, is even better than Mecha you know that right? So why people get Mecha? Robot, easy as that, People like robot even unconsciously, easy. Sunchaser, you explain things nicely, even if post became a bit longher, so, could you start asking for some Buffs to the "not so good class" like power dh/wb, non spectre thiefs specs, the strangely negletted Reaper, and so on? Could help a lot.

Considering we switch from save So Won to kill So Won to kill the Void (but So Won die the same) and we reuse previous EOD maps for some story near the end too, yeah, i think EOD was rushed, but at least, they give us a kind of completion on it (kind of similar to HOT expansion). I would have preferred So Won surviving, maybe go "in retirement" but alive; the devs could have always sparked a new story from it, instead of "ending it all". Well, maybee they wanted to end the Dragon story in a definite way, their story, their choice, no?

Sunchaser, you have represented the real world works mostly perfectly......... i can only add that people take position A and position M indifferently, because that is the real world....... if you want to work, you get position A or try next round, same for position M obviously, it's your choice. On Yaki, yeah, most "casual" play Mecha because has the Robot........ because a robot is in the login window of the game....... (and what is in a strategic position is perceived as "good thing to play in game", and "casual" try to play directly the class literally advertased on the front of the game. As i sayd before, my main is ranger (Soulbeast even when the class was subpar), FB Condi, nothing fancy here, renegade alac (started as Herald, but then, people needed Alac for all...........), and many other, even holo, but now i use Mecha too because, (big reveal) i like robots and mechanics, so i choose it. AS i posted various time, Mecha with 01/08 patch lost 2k dps, so from the 36k dps on Snowcrow (old test), you need to sub 2k (so around 34k), dps that take the class on the lower part of the ranking benchmark......... but i will continue to use it cause i like robot...... simple as that. And remember, the majority of "casual" want to play easy the game, no "piano/complicated rotation", they are "casual"...... (Major part of the Steam community too)

Buffs the "not so good classes" instead of only asking nerfs randomly wouldn't be a better thing to do for a better and fun to play game? And remember, this is a game, i want to have fun in an easy and not "piano rotation" way where play a class is more a job than a fun thing to do, and even if i am an old player, so tend to stay here, there are many many more who don't bother stay if the game became a "second job" for them considering in the last 5 years, many new games come out that can offer new opportunity for these kind of people.

Depend your main class (i don't see you specify it). Or wait for 23/08 where some classes get some extra buffs (what the rumor say).

Scourge even in support mode (sand give barrier, done support mode) can outdps a support Mecha, but noone say anything about it cause you need to "target" with the sand....... I mean, i see always people asking only nerfs all the time instead of asking to buffs the "not so good classes"......... why? Who know.......... Oh right, as the last buff to Soulbeast demonstrate, you simple need to up some weapons coefficient for a fast fix to some "not so good classes", so i don't think asking for buffs is so "hard to code or exceptionally time consuming".

Sunchaser and Tails and Obtena write nice (long) posts, but.......... you all understand that all this thing started because i simple point out that all LI build are similar, so if one LI build can be AFK, the rest would be able to do that too and the original Lottie sayd was not that, that only Mecha could be AFK and no the other LI build? The discussion then go on all other tracks now.......... well, some interesting info come out of it at least. Ah, right, remember Rifle Mecha lost around 2k dps from AARocket change for Robot now, and the dps test on Snowcrow are older (20/07) then the nerfing patch (01/08), so all dps on the site that use AARocket with the robot (or flamethrower) are now around -2k dps.

But all LI build work as Mecha do....... my point is that; a Vindicator LI build work as a Mecha LI build, if Mecha can be AFK, so can be Vindicator........ but you try to differentiate between the 2. Want something more like Mecha? Ranger LI build with Autopet is same as Mecha, Long bow 1 and pet autopet active is like Mecha, i see no difference, so if Mecha can be AFK, Ranger can be AFK too.

Yeah, for Flamethrower, is a big nerf............ the only range option as power now is Rifle............. Don't delete if is one of the oldest class you have, you lost the "birthday reward" items from the oldest one.

I know about that, tested it too, to see the difference (even for self boons build and the interaction of it with the golem), but a Condi quickness FB is around 26k dps without Allies (but i see all the time people point out the 29k dps with Allies....... why, i don't know). I simple arranged the build as top DPS, but if you want an all around build, yeah, FB is the best choice for a guardian, but in this case, don't think too much about it if they ask you if you are healer or quickness as FB class, normal dps isn't in most party radar as FB.

If you consider the benchmark only, and the fact noone used AARocket even though was totally possible before the 28/06 patch, and Mecha was 39k-40k dps (middle rank), and that the balance reduced all classes around 4k dps flat, so mecha be around 36k is totally normal, after that, Mecha was nerfed with the hot fix of 01/07 patch, and lost around 2k damage for all Robot different stile interaction (because instead of nerfing AARocket, they nerfed coefficient on the Robot damage skill........) plus, lost around another 2k damage with the last patch of 02/08, but benchmark isn't updated,(last update is 20/07 on snocrow) so, now, Mecha with the 2k dps loss is around 34k dps, on the lower side of the ranking, but people who use it now unless are older players with extra gold and extra armor to equip another class, will continue to use it, even if they do less dps of the media in the site (media dps is considered around 36k). But people here on the forum, even though the nerf come, continue to use the old bench to ask more nerf (instead of buffs for other classes), when the class is like 34k or less now........... but they don't understand it. For the Ele, i explained in many other post why Cata Hammer was nerfed......... Was explained too in the topic at the start of the Elementalist changing part in the patch, where they talked about what they found analizing the data from high level encounter contents, and that get the hammer nerf to the hammer of the cata.

You know that the party composition when boons and buffs where scarce but more powerfull than today was literally only DPS as "the best you can get" zerk stile? (Zerk group idea started there) You would get the easy (for you) best dps class the game offer and use it with any party you find for party contents, that was the game at that time. Healer, buffer, anything else? What are they?