Arheundel.6451

You can have resistance for days on warrior while playing spellbreaker! At the same time you can pack enough punch to rip a hole through everything if you know what to dodge ofc and not just randomly use that rush. -Full counter gives back 3 condis every 12s CD plus an evade and 100% "block"-Berseker stance-Feather grace-Shake it off And you still have "Signet of stamina" and "Mending"/ "Natural Healing" or go crazy with "Defiant Stance", if everything fail ( dunno how ) you can learn to CC/lock necros and & with hammer-mace/shield....what more do you want? And...better stability?..Are you kidding me? Warrior is the only class with pulsing stability as utility Balanced Stance, then you have "Dolyak signet", "Stomp" and then you have the best transform in the game : "rampage" and you want more?....maybe you want to play ele and have a single utility to have stability..... And yes..I do play warrior among other things; don't just try to facetank everything simply because you play a warrior....dodge sometimes

This reminds me of the current level of skill needed to play mesmer (Except chronomancer, you need to play 25 hours a day to be viable in gold) yeah...12 hrs practice per day to learn how to play a mesmer....that must be the reason behind the huge number of mesmer main post HoT....Possibly I would agree with the OP about the removal of IH and balancing of retargeting.......that would be a good start

Every mesmer suggestions thread .....I want to be an unkillable Rambo and every definition of counterplay in every mesmer suggestions thread....as long as you practice 12 hrs per day and have inherent super gaming skill..you may stand a chance..you may......../thread as always.....IH as minor trait.....sure sure

There is more to that...Necro is simply much easier to pick up and do well with compared to an ele which will always have a bad time against a necro at equal skill level, the first thing that you fail to acknowledge is how well does necro when stacked compared to most other classes and that already requires attention. The second thing that you refuse to acknowledge : the vampiric traits in the blood line did not get balanced like the rest of the sustain traits on other professions, don't really care about death carapace but that life steal it's indeed too strong atm when coupled with loss of global dmg and sustain

I play warrior in wvw...all you say it's just your personal opinion, does not correspond to reality in my opinion Yeah a opinion shared by many, also easy to just say u play a class as well.https://i.imgur.com/kQQCKoJ.jpg

I play warrior in wvw...all you say it's just your personal opinion, does not correspond to reality in my opinion

60% winrate chad burn DH fighting depicable plebeians :D Given the skill level of current pvp playerbase at large..I am not surprised, years of powercreep must have led to bad habits . Play too much thief rifle 5-2/1 dodge rinse and repeat...and you forget the very basics of the game but again...as stated by the devs in the stream high winrate =/ needs nerfs, because in this case there is burning DH during any tournaments for a mighty reason..... I am not surprised burn DH wasn't touched....the devs mostly go for oppressive specs that oppress others with min effort from pvp to wvw at all skill levels, therefore DE was nerfed, condi mirage too and soon condi herarld Something that I can beat with a core ele in my sleep...won't ever deserve a hard nerfing..L2P peeps P.S thieves have plenty of condi removal....acrobatics, shadow art, trickery and 2 main healing skills...maybe they want to lose some of their wambo jambo copy/paste griefing build perma stealth kitten instead than come running on the forums; I have seen thief players adapting to burn dh and kill them effortlessly.... This coming from a guy who started his own thread about being dismayed about only seeing fb/dh,necro etc in every match than going on to say stack em and its guaranteed win lmao, what? U bandwagon to dh so now it's fine lmao man that right there is gold.I don't see any mention of DH for pvp or wvw...I specify specs and that's important for a discussion....accusing me of bandwagoning when for months you campaigned to see rangers nerfed..then "all of sudden" ranger's pet were fine so you are....a warrior, a thief and a ranger now?

The community doesn't want a glorified pet class oppressing the rest of the playerbase because in the end , the only time when mesmer became popular was when pet specs were viable like core sword phantasm camper - chrono bunker and staff camper IH condi mirage...basically every time mesmer had access to some brainless low effort=huge reward buid. I remember learning that core phantasm build back in the days, signet of illusions was used ...can't remember and the build was all about keeping the phantasm alive , it was dealing 5-6k dmg while you could go tanky...took one day to learn it..then we had chrono bunker...urghhhh...finally condi mirage..god. Oh and blur into stealth into dodge evasive reflect into distortion into stealth into blur again into something else like chaos field...that's not something..."easily outplayed" lol, that's an invulnerability chain not even unblockable go through because we're talking about evasion frames acting as an invulnerability....time to face reality, GW2 mesmer got nothing of the complex class in GW1, the current one is simply a badly designed super duellist with easily abusing mechanics

60% winrate chad burn DH fighting depicable plebeians :D Given the skill level of current pvp playerbase at large..I am not surprised, years of powercreep must have led to bad habits . Play too much thief rifle 5-2/1 dodge rinse and repeat...and you forget the very basics of the game but again...as stated by the devs in the stream high winrate =/ needs nerfs, because in this case there is burning DH during any tournaments for a mighty reason..... I am not surprised burn DH wasn't touched....the devs mostly go for oppressive specs that oppress others with min effort from pvp to wvw at all skill levels, therefore DE was nerfed, condi mirage too and soon condi herarld Something that I can beat with a core ele in my sleep...won't ever deserve a hard nerfing..L2P peeps P.S thieves have plenty of condi removal....acrobatics, shadow art, trickery and 2 main healing skills...maybe they want to lose some of their wambo jambo copy/paste griefing build perma stealth crap instead than come running on the forums; I have seen thief players adapting to burn dh and kill them effortlessly....

He probably was playing some DE/stealth camping bs and was burn hadokened by a rightful Dragon hunter in the name of Justice

You have Berserk stance and more condi clear or can even slot warhorn for more condi clear/resistance if choosing tactics.....sounds too crazy? Warrior got plenty of condi removal options and generous access to resistance.....but majority of warriors don't seem to accept the fact that dmg comes with a price tag...at least from now, before you could get everything in a single build...not anymore, you need to make choices, pick your fights wisely and try to be useful while doing that. Warriors got truck load of condi clear but all that comes at a price...a price you're not willingly to pay like other classes boi oh boi, runs warhorn, why didn't i think of that, guys let's all run warhorn so we don't get kitten by blinds and weakness spam.oh wait, now i got kitten by power thief/rev/ranger/guardian because i don't have a shield? silly me you think people haven't tried other amulet and other builds? you think too intelligent of yourself.Was waiting for this... Yes! It's called balance..we can't have a "ring to rule them all" sort of build, you must have counters, hard counters even to guarantee some resemblance of fun for other players..I am not the one who think too intelligent of himself

I am having enough with current warrior mains! You want to do dmg?...Use zerker amulet, burst set up utilities and gameplay You want sustain ?.....Use a bunker amulet at the cost of dmg, it was absolutely retarded that warrior with zero healing power could heal as much as a mender ele ...absolutely retarded Some numbers for you :1)pre-patch no healing power- "might makes me right" was at 113 I believe or 133 can't remember + HS healing like 340? per second + "magebane" and it was nut sustain +burst dmg +tank ....that's called broken AF If I add core warrior with "Tactics" again at 0 healing power : "mending might" + "might makes me right" + "for great justice" and that was easy 6.5k heal every 20s...a single shout alone..forget the heal signet, adrenaline health ( if running defense ) and GS burst/shield block adding more might...again broken AF 2)After patch - you can reach the same levels of sustain by investing in over 1200 healing at the cost of dmg ofc, that's how professions like ele works. Warrior is 100% fine now...people are just not used to trade sustain for dmg...welcome to reality then

You have Berserk stance and more condi clear or can even slot warhorn for more condi clear/resistance if choosing tactics.....sounds too crazy? Warrior got plenty of condi removal options and generous access to resistance.....but majority of warriors don't seem to accept the fact that dmg comes with a price tag...at least from now, before you could get everything in a single build...not anymore, you need to make choices, pick your fights wisely and try to be useful while doing that. Warriors got truck load of condi clear but all that comes at a price...a price you're not willingly to pay like other classes

Yes there are professions that duel better than others but I highly doubt they were designed for dueling. War was indeed one of the strongest duelists before the nerfs though.No one can argue that Warrior didn't straight up overperform in most if not all 1 v 1 duels with no interruptions because their Spellbreaker spec not only gave them alot of defensive aspects, it also gave them damage through Burst resets. They were hurt extremely badly because they relied alot on their sustain to tough out fights, and as such, were basically more or less an attrition based profession/build.Like I mentioned above, Warrior got double nerfed.Not only are they unable to pull of high damage bursts like before, they are also unable to sustain well anymore, hence their drop in performance. Thing is, this is mainly a PvP/WvW thread and topic.There is literally no sense in bringing in unrelated aspects to measure a Profession's performance in competitive dueling, where sustain is the focus and an important part of winning a fight. True, there are no Professions that are able to do everything with a single build or setup, but there are Professions out there that are indeed able to perform better in all aspects. Take Thief for example. They excel in roaming, dueling and ganking.They can engage and disengage at will, with no actual way of stopping them from doing so because they are able to rotate skills essentially 10x faster than other professions due to how their resource mechanic works.They are also being played frontline very often now in zerg fights, contrary to past beliefs that Thieves are useless in zerg v zerg. I've been seeing alot of frontline Staff DDs these days that are able to use Vault for 100% safe pushes while doing absurd amounts of damage.Plus they have been employing Scorpion Wire to pick off stragglers. Where am I going with all this? War was over nerfed.It used to be pretty good, and now it is less than decent.It could use some buffs for sure, even if Anet's goal is to cut out alot of powercreep and balance the game. Warrior was overperforming because of broken passive sustain + might generation through the roof which was amplifying this passive sustain even more. The warrior is already a class with inherent sustain by design : highest HP and armor, those are two stats you don't need to worry about compared to a class like ele or guardian or even thief . I just want to make sure that having the highest HP doesn't get simply swiped under the rug as a frivolous object and with that said...how would you buff warrior sustain? Before the patch a warrior could have the burst and mobility of a thief, the sustain of a bunker healer ele and the tankiness of a scrapper...all with a single build; I was running something like : strength 3-2-2 / tactics 1-2-2 and defense 2-1-1 in PvP and WvW...the sustain was pretty absurd thx to For great Justice which was gives 25 might within a short time-span and that coupled with Mending Might would give me bonker sustain on top of burst dmg for zero healing power investment, it was a little more than 7k healing every 20s with that shout alone while I was bursting people for 6-7k arcing slices...oh and I had like 3k armor...c'mon. Warrior is also easier to play than most other classes...if not just the easiest one to pick up, if to easiest you add top duellist..we may as well just delete other professions let's be realistic here. Now..let's do some math to prove you how warrior was not overnerfed but rather...put in its place : Before patch ) core warrior tactics build = ["might makes me right" x "Mending might" x "For great Justice"]+"vigorous shouts" = 7k healing every 20s at 0 Healing powerAfter patch) same build = ["might makes me right" x "Mending might" x "For great Justice"]+"vigorous shouts" = 6k healing every 20s at 1200 Healing power See what the devs did? If you want sustain...you must invest in sustain and if you want dmg you do the same...no more you get the cake and eat it too, if you want to do damage on warrior now is more risky , it's the high skill floor warrior mains always asked. People like @VaAnSs.1567 still do well on warrior while those carried by overperforming state...can't keep up anymore but they still can if they're ready to make the right sacrifices

Thieves and Necros are perpetual whiners...while having been perma meta in PvP/WvW since the inception of the game You know, you keep repeating that, but thats still wrong. Necro hasnt been meta for most of GW2s lifespan, having had brief stints in the spotlight in pre-HoT and then a couple in HoT, but by and large being absent from the meta. Thief fared better, but even thief wasnt meta every time the meta gravitated towards bunkers (it makes their rotational prowess far less relevant), which HoT had a few of. 2012 :Core necro and D/D thief 2012-2013Core necro , D/D and D/P thief 2013-2014-2015Dhuum fire necro, D/P and S/D thief So far mostly correct, necro wasnt much of a thing in most of 2013 and 2015. Here you are incorrect. Reaper was relevant for all of a couple months in early HoT, then stopped being relevant. Thief was only relevant in non-bunker metas. HoT didnt have too many of those. Deadeye was never viable. D/P core thief was not viable until late 2019. It was only S/D, and that one was ok. Core Necro only became viable after the february patch. Before that, necro wasnt viable. "Replacements"? No, that would only apply if their role was still relevant, but thieves role was not relevant in several metas. The replacement was just playing a bunker yourself as well. Necro had been replaced by various classes, Elementalists, Bunker Mesmers, Warriors, etc. etc. I think your memory is a bit fuzzy.... When the dhuum patch got released, people were playing even 3 dhuum necro per team in ranked, during that time 2013-2014 ele was literally unplayable so much that Jon Peters pitied the eles and introduced Diamond Skin to give eles a chance to fight back. At the same time of the dhuum patch we had buffs for s/d thief and their 2-3 boons steal from sword shadow step ( can't remember correct name ) and all of that contributed to make ele virtually unplayable in PvP/WvW so much again that along with Diamond skin , the devs released Stone Heart It seems your memory is a bit fuzzy. During 2014, Celestial D/D Ele was the powerhouse it would continue to be until the specialisation patch. Hell, the winning team in December 2014s WTS had 2 Eles on its team, and the others all had 1. Diamond Skin was added in early 2013, so Im not sure why youre talking about it in the context of 2014. S/D thief got a nerf in the dhuumfire patch, having Larcenous Strikes initiative cost increased by 1. You also confused Infiltrator's Strike (the shadowstep) with Larcenous Strike (the boonrip), and were wrong with the number of boons Larcenous Strike removed (2, later 1). Stone Heart was not introduced because Ele was "virtually unplayable", but because they gave several new cool traits to everyone. Guardians were actually picked more than thieves. Every team had at least 1, sometimes 2, while some teams dropped thief alltogether in 2014. I also dont know where you got the idea that Dhuumfire necros were "dominating" from, because they werent common picks. I looked back through some old tournament VoDs, and I only saw a handful of teams even having the 1 Necro. Ele was considerably more common. ... ok now your memory has gone completely haywire. Reaper was initially fairly strong, yes, but as I said, its relevance dropped fast. Thief on the other hand? People played Daredevil D/P, not S/D (Up until the recent acro nerfs, S/D has never used Daredevil), and it was not picked ... basically at all. If you look at the pro league at the time, almost no team ran any thief. You wish. Thief was broken (legitimately broken) pre-specialisation update. Afterwards, it was just good. You played 1 in your team, and it was often not even mandatory. Except for most of HoT, where thief was bad and teams just didnt play thief. Thats not "broken OP". Necro fared worse, generally being irrelevant, short of brief stints in the spotlight, before being cast aside. Even happened with PoF. Thats hilarious coming from a ranger. A class that people cry out even more, and that still tended to perform better than Necro (and is about on par with thief). 1) Diamond skinhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Diamond_Skin 2)Stone hearthttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Diamond_Skin Check the release history..... Yeah, as I said. Early 2013 for the former, the latter was just one of many traits added. It never was buffed. It was nerfed. There was a version from before that that had different stats, but thats because it was under the old system where everything had different stats. Ironically, under that version Celestial was even stronger relatively, as it only was like 20 stats off, while berserkers was way lower. Oh you dont have to link them, I can. Lets start with the Pro League shall we? My my, what do we have here? In the first tournament, there was no thief played at all. Even famous thief players, like Toker and Levin were not playing thief. So yeah, so much for thief was "always meta". What about the second one? Well, it had 2 thieves. But only players who are known for their thief and less good at other classes. Even then, Levin still dropped thief in favour of Revenant, and the teams with thieves were the worst performing ones. Once again, far cry from "meta". What about the World Championship? Same story. Almost no team played thief, and the ones that did were the ones that did the worst. Once more, thief wasnt meta. Hell, this time even MuffinZZ dropped thief. And thats all of the tournaments that happened back then. Thief was largely not meta in HoT. Yes, thief was meta for almost all of pre-HoT (excluding a small blip before the specialisation update). But past HoT? They performed pretty poorly, and they would perform poorly for parts of PoF as well. Its a far cry from "always meta". Ah yes, montages. Well known for being representative of the class and unbiased, and not just cherrypicked clips made to look the player as good as possible. We have already thoroughly disproven that Thief was "meta since launch", by showing that for most of HoT, it wasnt meta at all, and at times straight up unplayed. Necro performed a little better in HoT, but a lot worse prior and a lot worse post scourge nerfs in PoF. Ironically, Ele was meta about as much as they were. Also, thief was only "overbearing" in 2013-late 2014, while Ele had been overbearing the entirety of 2015 and 2016. So yeah, it performed way better. And no, you had several times in HoT where teams had 4-5 eles in a single match. Hell, professional teams were playing 2, or even 3 eles in the same team, while no other class basically ever got stacked. @UNOwen.7132 said: Thieves and Necros are perpetual whiners...while having been perma meta in PvP/WvW since the inception of the game You know, you keep repeating that, but thats still wrong. Necro hasnt been meta for most of GW2s lifespan, having had brief stints in the spotlight in pre-HoT and then a couple in HoT, but by and large being absent from the meta. Thief fared better, but even thief wasnt meta every time the meta gravitated towards bunkers (it makes their rotational prowess far less relevant), which HoT had a few of. 2012 :Core necro and D/D thief 2012-2013Core necro , D/D and D/P thief 2013-2014-2015Dhuum fire necro, D/P and S/D thief So far mostly correct, necro wasnt much of a thing in most of 2013 and 2015. Here you are incorrect. Reaper was relevant for all of a couple months in early HoT, then stopped being relevant. Thief was only relevant in non-bunker metas. HoT didnt have too many of those. Deadeye was never viable. D/P core thief was not viable until late 2019. It was only S/D, and that one was ok. Core Necro only became viable after the february patch. Before that, necro wasnt viable. "Replacements"? No, that would only apply if their role was still relevant, but thieves role was not relevant in several metas. The replacement was just playing a bunker yourself as well. Necro had been replaced by various classes, Elementalists, Bunker Mesmers, Warriors, etc. etc. I think your memory is a bit fuzzy.... When the dhuum patch got released, people were playing even 3 dhuum necro per team in ranked, during that time 2013-2014 ele was literally unplayable so much that Jon Peters pitied the eles and introduced Diamond Skin to give eles a chance to fight back. At the same time of the dhuum patch we had buffs for s/d thief and their 2-3 boons steal from sword shadow step ( can't remember correct name ) and all of that contributed to make ele virtually unplayable in PvP/WvW so much again that along with Diamond skin , the devs released Stone Heart It seems your memory is a bit fuzzy. During 2014, Celestial D/D Ele was the powerhouse it would continue to be until the specialisation patch. Hell, the winning team in December 2014s WTS had 2 Eles on its team, and the others all had 1. Diamond Skin was added in early 2013, so Im not sure why youre talking about it in the context of 2014. S/D thief got a nerf in the dhuumfire patch, having Larcenous Strikes initiative cost increased by 1. You also confused Infiltrator's Strike (the shadowstep) with Larcenous Strike (the boonrip), and were wrong with the number of boons Larcenous Strike removed (2, later 1). Stone Heart was not introduced because Ele was "virtually unplayable", but because they gave several new cool traits to everyone. Guardians were actually picked more than thieves. Every team had at least 1, sometimes 2, while some teams dropped thief alltogether in 2014. I also dont know where you got the idea that Dhuumfire necros were "dominating" from, because they werent common picks. I looked back through some old tournament VoDs, and I only saw a handful of teams even having the 1 Necro. Ele was considerably more common. ... ok now your memory has gone completely haywire. Reaper was initially fairly strong, yes, but as I said, its relevance dropped fast. Thief on the other hand? People played Daredevil D/P, not S/D (Up until the recent acro nerfs, S/D has never used Daredevil), and it was not picked ... basically at all. If you look at the pro league at the time, almost no team ran any thief. You wish. Thief was broken (legitimately broken) pre-specialisation update. Afterwards, it was just good. You played 1 in your team, and it was often not even mandatory. Except for most of HoT, where thief was bad and teams just didnt play thief. Thats not "broken OP". Necro fared worse, generally being irrelevant, short of brief stints in the spotlight, before being cast aside. Even happened with PoF. Thats hilarious coming from a ranger. A class that people cry out even more, and that still tended to perform better than Necro (and is about on par with thief). 1) Diamond skinhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Diamond_Skin 2)Stone hearthttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Diamond_Skin Check the release history..... Yeah, as I said. Early 2013 for the former, the latter was just one of many traits added. It never was buffed. It was nerfed. There was a version from before that that had different stats, but thats because it was under the old system where everything had different stats. Ironically, under that version Celestial was even stronger relatively, as it only was like 20 stats off, while berserkers was way lower. Oh you dont have to link them, I can. Lets start with the Pro League shall we? My my, what do we have here? In the first tournament, there was no thief played at all. Even famous thief players, like Toker and Levin were not playing thief. So yeah, so much for thief was "always meta". What about the second one? Well, it had 2 thieves. But only players who are known for their thief and less good at other classes. Even then, Levin still dropped thief in favour of Revenant, and the teams with thieves were the worst performing ones. Once again, far cry from "meta". What about the World Championship? Same story. Almost no team played thief, and the ones that did were the ones that did the worst. Once more, thief wasnt meta. Hell, this time even MuffinZZ dropped thief. And thats all of the tournaments that happened back then. Thief was largely not meta in HoT. Yes, thief was meta for almost all of pre-HoT (excluding a small blip before the specialisation update). But past HoT? They performed pretty poorly, and they would perform poorly for parts of PoF as well. Its a far cry from "always meta". Ah yes, montages. Well known for being representative of the class and unbiased, and not just cherrypicked clips made to look the player as good as possible. We have already thoroughly disproven that Thief was "meta since launch", by showing that for most of HoT, it wasnt meta at all, and at times straight up unplayed. Necro performed a little better in HoT, but a lot worse prior and a lot worse post scourge nerfs in PoF. Ironically, Ele was meta about as much as they were. Also, thief was only "overbearing" in 2013-late 2014, while Ele had been overbearing the entirety of 2015 and 2016. So yeah, it performed way better. And no, you had several times in HoT where teams had 4-5 eles in a single match. Hell, professional teams were playing 2, or even 3 eles in the same team, while no other class basically ever got stacked.You keep lying..but it's easy to disprove you... 2013 2014 "no other class basically ever got stacked"...last famous words2015 You are again proved wrong and I think this was after the June 2015 patch which made fire ele clearly OP for a good while as I have already stated and yet, I see thief being played in the finals, a single played tournament that won with 4 eles because of a patch fluke...that got fixed 3-4 months later with nerfs to the fire traitline2016 I fail to see your overbearing stacked ele still...a tempest supportTell me again how thief was not meta but at this point I don't understand what is the problem, the OP is a thief who constantly asks for nerfs...didn't get anything wrong there...about the rest I think people see what they want to see but all points have been made. As others before , you try to base your whole argument on that september esl match with 4 eles and...1 thief, that was once across the whole lifespan of GW2 and other professions have been stacked just as well in PvP ranked ...did you even watch last monthly tournie with 3-4 revs in a single match? Got anything to say about that?

My memory is a bit foggy, but what update turned them from trash into 4-5 per game? Just migration from one faceroll to another? Cellofrag has videos from pof inception, all the way until now. And it seems that he was able to fight outnumbered from day one. Oh really? Strange...because there was no weaver meta till they buffed sword dmg and changed dagger/dagger combos and nerfed some strong outliers like holo, spellbreakers and scourges and soulbeasts....zzzzzz Cellofrag heh?...good thing people can still outnumber while having 2 defensive tratilines+ healing amulet, if some professions could not even do that...we wouldn't be here no?!

Thieves and Necros are perpetual whiners...while having been perma meta in PvP/WvW since the inception of the game You know, you keep repeating that, but thats still wrong. Necro hasnt been meta for most of GW2s lifespan, having had brief stints in the spotlight in pre-HoT and then a couple in HoT, but by and large being absent from the meta. Thief fared better, but even thief wasnt meta every time the meta gravitated towards bunkers (it makes their rotational prowess far less relevant), which HoT had a few of. 2012 :Core necro and D/D thief 2012-2013Core necro , D/D and D/P thief 2013-2014-2015Dhuum fire necro, D/P and S/D thief So far mostly correct, necro wasnt much of a thing in most of 2013 and 2015. Here you are incorrect. Reaper was relevant for all of a couple months in early HoT, then stopped being relevant. Thief was only relevant in non-bunker metas. HoT didnt have too many of those. Deadeye was never viable. D/P core thief was not viable until late 2019. It was only S/D, and that one was ok. Core Necro only became viable after the february patch. Before that, necro wasnt viable. "Replacements"? No, that would only apply if their role was still relevant, but thieves role was not relevant in several metas. The replacement was just playing a bunker yourself as well. Necro had been replaced by various classes, Elementalists, Bunker Mesmers, Warriors, etc. etc. I think your memory is a bit fuzzy.... When the dhuum patch got released, people were playing even 3 dhuum necro per team in ranked, during that time 2013-2014 ele was literally unplayable so much that Jon Peters pitied the eles and introduced Diamond Skin to give eles a chance to fight back. At the same time of the dhuum patch we had buffs for s/d thief and their 2-3 boons steal from sword shadow step ( can't remember correct name ) and all of that contributed to make ele virtually unplayable in PvP/WvW so much again that along with Diamond skin , the devs released Stone Heart It seems your memory is a bit fuzzy. During 2014, Celestial D/D Ele was the powerhouse it would continue to be until the specialisation patch. Hell, the winning team in December 2014s WTS had 2 Eles on its team, and the others all had 1. Diamond Skin was added in early 2013, so Im not sure why youre talking about it in the context of 2014. S/D thief got a nerf in the dhuumfire patch, having Larcenous Strikes initiative cost increased by 1. You also confused Infiltrator's Strike (the shadowstep) with Larcenous Strike (the boonrip), and were wrong with the number of boons Larcenous Strike removed (2, later 1). Stone Heart was not introduced because Ele was "virtually unplayable", but because they gave several new cool traits to everyone. Guardians were actually picked more than thieves. Every team had at least 1, sometimes 2, while some teams dropped thief alltogether in 2014. I also dont know where you got the idea that Dhuumfire necros were "dominating" from, because they werent common picks. I looked back through some old tournament VoDs, and I only saw a handful of teams even having the 1 Necro. Ele was considerably more common. ... ok now your memory has gone completely haywire. Reaper was initially fairly strong, yes, but as I said, its relevance dropped fast. Thief on the other hand? People played Daredevil D/P, not S/D (Up until the recent acro nerfs, S/D has never used Daredevil), and it was not picked ... basically at all. If you look at the pro league at the time, almost no team ran any thief. You wish. Thief was broken (legitimately broken) pre-specialisation update. Afterwards, it was just good. You played 1 in your team, and it was often not even mandatory. Except for most of HoT, where thief was bad and teams just didnt play thief. Thats not "broken OP". Necro fared worse, generally being irrelevant, short of brief stints in the spotlight, before being cast aside. Even happened with PoF. Thats hilarious coming from a ranger. A class that people cry out even more, and that still tended to perform better than Necro (and is about on par with thief).1) Diamond skinhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Diamond_Skin 2)Stone hearthttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Diamond_Skin Check the release history..... 3)https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Celestial_AmuletNobody was using cele amulet then it got buffed It seems at this point everything turned more into a biased discussion...either way I don't deny that ele has been in relatively speaking comfortable position and seen quite few falls along the way, still thief players should not deny their interaction with the meta since the launch of the game, thief has been meta since launch in pvp...I really don't want to link all major tournaments from 2013 till now but I will if I am forced to . Stop victmizing necros.... Again I don't want to link every single video showcasing necros from reapers to scourges...the class has been meta since launch like thief in a way or another, always present way more than ele (I concede that ele became a FOTM class after the June 2015 condi patch...at least for some time) , while a solid class for good part of GW2 life span, ele was almost never this overbearing presence like thief or necro both for soloq and wvw. yes ele got really OP withe fire/water/arcana after the June 2015 patch but that's it...after that you never had a situation where they were 4-5 eles in a single match like it has been for necros

People will always advocate to nerf what is annoying to fight over what is actually strong. What is annoying to fight is most times easier to play than what is actually strong to fight against; being easier to play means it will be present at lower levels and it's from here that the majority of whine threads come from ...reason why holos and revs get a pass atm on the whining bo....I mean forum

TBH we have been scammed with those "quick" changes, I dont really see them, since the big patch we had only parody nerfsfb nerf was a jokeranger nerf was a jokenecro nerf was a jokeLR nerf was enitire circus lol You'd think the devs nerfed mesmer after reading whine posts on the forum and not after careful data analysis ....no company is about to bend over and nerf everything down to the ground as per request of some unhappy player, who proceed to write a wall of text on the forum every time they lose their 1v1, a wall of text based mostly on anecdotal evidence and hyperbole which paramount to flat out lies you are hung up on the mesmer nerfs more then any mesmer I have met, kitten is done move on, find something else to whine about.and your blind believe in developer is truly amazing, but after rereading your post you have me stuck, are you being sarcastic? I really cant tell with you anymore. Never had anything against mesmers till the introduction of Mirage and Infinite Horizon and I will keep "whining" because I don't care of being insta killed by a power mesmer from stealth or by confusion spam what I do care is being forced to fight a braindead glorified pet spec like staff condi mirage . I didn't care about your power shatter or chrono bunker or chrono shatter and I still don't , they can give back anything they want back to mesmer as long they remove Infinite Horizon out of existence and with it that mofo staff/phase retreat spam clown build I don't care about being killed, I don't go out there expecting to win every fight and I don't mind to die dozen of times for the sake of enjoyment ...I just don't like to be cheesed out by some scrub abusing some ill designed kitten like : pulmonary impact spam and staff clone ambush then why are you still whining? phase retreat is dog kitten, staff ambush is dog kitten, mirage in general is dog kitten, celebrate, you did it There is still WvW...my quest continue...heroes never sleep because the darkness never rest

TBH we have been scammed with those "quick" changes, I dont really see them, since the big patch we had only parody nerfsfb nerf was a jokeranger nerf was a jokenecro nerf was a jokeLR nerf was enitire circus lol You'd think the devs nerfed mesmer after reading whine posts on the forum and not after careful data analysis ....no company is about to bend over and nerf everything down to the ground as per request of some unhappy player, who proceed to write a wall of text on the forum every time they lose their 1v1, a wall of text based mostly on anecdotal evidence and hyperbole which paramount to flat out lies you are hung up on the mesmer nerfs more then any mesmer I have met, kitten is done move on, find something else to whine about.and your blind believe in developer is truly amazing, but after rereading your post you have me stuck, are you being sarcastic? I really cant tell with you anymore.Never had anything against mesmers till the introduction of Mirage and Infinite Horizon and I will keep "whining" because I don't care of being insta killed by a power mesmer from stealth or by confusion spam what I do care is being forced to fight a braindead glorified pet spec like staff condi mirage . I didn't care about your power shatter or chrono bunker or chrono shatter and I still don't , they can give back anything they want back to mesmer as long they remove Infinite Horizon out of existence and with it that mofo staff/phase retreat spam clown build I don't care about being killed, I don't go out there expecting to win every fight and I don't mind to die dozen of times for the sake of enjoyment ...I just don't like to be cheesed out by some scrub abusing some ill designed crap like : pulmonary impact spam and staff clone ambush

TBH we have been scammed with those "quick" changes, I dont really see them, since the big patch we had only parody nerfsfb nerf was a jokeranger nerf was a jokenecro nerf was a jokeLR nerf was enitire circus lol You'd think the devs nerfed mesmer after reading whine posts on the forum and not after careful data analysis ....no company is about to bend over and nerf everything down to the ground as per request of some unhappy player, who proceed to write a wall of text on the forum every time they lose their 1v1, a wall of text based mostly on anecdotal evidence and hyperbole which paramount to flat out lies Mesmer was nerfed based on broken ill designed mechanics like ChronoPhantasma and Infinite Horizon ....mesmer was not nerfed because some bronze lord wrote on the forum : "Mesmer too hard to fight"

Thieves and Necros are perpetual whiners...while having been perma meta in PvP/WvW since the inception of the game You know, you keep repeating that, but thats still wrong. Necro hasnt been meta for most of GW2s lifespan, having had brief stints in the spotlight in pre-HoT and then a couple in HoT, but by and large being absent from the meta. Thief fared better, but even thief wasnt meta every time the meta gravitated towards bunkers (it makes their rotational prowess far less relevant), which HoT had a few of. 2012 :Core necro and D/D thief 2012-2013Core necro , D/D and D/P thief 2013-2014-2015Dhuum fire necro, D/P and S/D thief So far mostly correct, necro wasnt much of a thing in most of 2013 and 2015. Here you are incorrect. Reaper was relevant for all of a couple months in early HoT, then stopped being relevant. Thief was only relevant in non-bunker metas. HoT didnt have too many of those. Deadeye was never viable. D/P core thief was not viable until late 2019. It was only S/D, and that one was ok. Core Necro only became viable after the february patch. Before that, necro wasnt viable. "Replacements"? No, that would only apply if their role was still relevant, but thieves role was not relevant in several metas. The replacement was just playing a bunker yourself as well. Necro had been replaced by various classes, Elementalists, Bunker Mesmers, Warriors, etc. etc.I think your memory is a bit fuzzy.... When the dhuum patch got released, people were playing even 3 dhuum necro per team in ranked, during that time 2013-2014 ele was literally unplayable so much that Jon Peters pitied the eles and introduced Diamond Skin to give eles a chance to fight back. At the same time of the dhuum patch we had buffs for s/d thief and their 2-3 boons steal from sword shadow step ( can't remember correct name ) and all of that contributed to make ele virtually unplayable in PvP/WvW so much again that along with Diamond skin , the devs released Stone Heart S/D thieves with their unblockable boon steal were making life miserable for guardians too and dhuumfire was being abused left and right with no remorse, it took some months but the nerfs started to flow in....it was still not enough and we barely reached a placebo sort of situation, because in the end whining FOTM necro mains got Diamond skin nerfed to the ground, luckily by that time dhuumfire was close to be dead. Few month later (2015) we had HoT release and was Necro/Thief invasion all over again...with busted Deathly Chill and Daredevil s/d which at release was basically the perfect duellist with no counters....life was really miserable in PvP and wvw with reapers running amok spamming Deathly chill and DD s/d thieves turning roaming in a living nightmare. I mean c'mon...with necro and thief we always gravitate from a state of Broken OP to mild /soft countered state. Thieves and necro play too much the victim card when in a way or another, they always receive some unfun mechanic to fight against.......

Thieves and Necros are perpetual whiners...while having been perma meta in PvP/WvW since the inception of the game You know, you keep repeating that, but thats still wrong. Necro hasnt been meta for most of GW2s lifespan, having had brief stints in the spotlight in pre-HoT and then a couple in HoT, but by and large being absent from the meta. Thief fared better, but even thief wasnt meta every time the meta gravitated towards bunkers (it makes their rotational prowess far less relevant), which HoT had a few of.2012 :Core necro and D/D thief 2012-2013Core necro , D/D and D/P thief 2013-2014-2015Dhuum fire necro, D/P and S/D thief 2015-2018Chill/dhuum Reaper, D/P, S/D core and Daredevil 2018-2019Scourge, Deadeye, D/P core thief 2019-2020Core necro, D/P core thief I won't mention other sub-variants and neither their implications in WvW but so far...when exactly were thief and necro non meta? and you answering the question would imply that the meta had better replacements and I'd like to know which ones

Thieves and Necros are perpetual whiners...while having been perma meta in PvP/WvW since the inception of the game

Between you and @"cptaylor.2670" ...who does create more nerf threads and attempts to stir drama?....half the nerf/drama threads on this forum are from you....there are people who I see more on the forum than actually in game But to answer your question......thief mains are the ones asking the more nerfs in general : @Vallun.2071 - @"bluri.2653" and other "pro" streamers