ledernierrempart.6871

why do you feel like it is becoming boring?

this is a "get better" kind of scenario. boonballing and spaming AOE all over the place isn't tactic. just strategicall decision made beforehand, kust like the commmander movement.i believe you are speaking about bus fights. who in their right mind would try to revive a downed player if he is being bombed?what i see is dumbed down tactic as poeple go all AOE to secure downed instead of keeping those ability to hurt the enemy bus.i see way more opportunity in focusing on killing rather than securing downed.no downstate event should stay way longer than just one week to get better data. right now alot of people are lost in what build they should use or what move the comander should do because there isn't any downed to rally to or focus on. as for roaming and small scale fights it is just as i said in my previous post.in the end , downstate is an unbalanced gimmick that favor larger groups and rally bot should not exist outside of PvE. what tactic? you mean everyone going bunker support and ram into each other to let the number do the damage?or necro going full braindead AOE spam? i get it, you people like battles of attrition. that's what killed competitive play in PvP. maybe if WvW were more of a PvP game and less of a PvE one more player would play it?are you really satisfied with the current WvW meta? do you not want something new and fresh everyone can work on? yes it mostly benefit roamers because they usually have a better individual skill and builds to kill or solo survive. well no. WvW will get populated again and even grab the attention of PvP oriented people from other games.EOTM did go full PvE mode and finally died. the day WvW will be only populated by single bus running around is the day WvW will die for good.

how is this related to no downstate?

i agree that rally needs to go completely.but downedstate is also a problem in small outnumbered fights. (1v2, 5v10, etc)if you get rid of rally, bus clashing will often result in downed being kill soo fast it wont matter much if there is downstate or not anyway.only that some AOE would be used on living players instead of downed ones. this is useless because if you are outnumbered, being downed means death.and it will still create unfair engagement between equal roaming groups which in turn will make WvW even more unbalanced. in the end, without downstate, you can rebalance WvW with new mechanics like revive ability being used on the deads.i am for fresh new feature that would actually promote fights no matter the odds instead of keeping that old downstate that clearly increase the problems of overall damage nerf and boonballs.

why so? because you can't elem mist back to the bus? because it is harder to deal with smaller groups? becasue you can't abuse your numerical advantage as much as before? then let us have another thing you feel unbalanced since everything is unbalanced anyway? but each class has their own gameplay. dwonstate has nothing to do with class gameplay. and if you are using downstate as a core game^play of the class then you are playing it wrong. downstate has too many downside in WvW. alot of the complaints about damage nerf, boonballing, outnumbered, etc all can be completely or partially resolved just by getting rid of downstate.downstate IS good for PvE.can be interesting in PvP (as it is a capture the point gamemode and not a team deathmatch).but in a chaotic mass Pvp environment? it is bad. only when both fighting groups are at an roughly equal number can the fight be interesting.sadly that doesn't happen often in WvW. WvW hasn't been that much populated since months (sure, there is still summer vacation to take in consideration). never have i seen queues on at least one map during all day long. usually there is a queue only at prime time.when downstate will come back WvW will be that bus fest where you can't do anything without number again. imagine all the interesting things you would see without downstate!raizing deads with resurection skills.more builds diverity as players will try new combinations to either kill fast or make everyone survive.individual skill will rise as players will be more cautious.downstate in EOTM and obsidian sanctuary so PvE players and duelists may go back to those wonderfull maps.hunting parties!dead thieves instead of getting invisible by a mate to come back to life! cough cough...new balance upon burst skill (as you don't have to dps a second life bar).better bus stacking to avoid getting nuked by a team focus while straying to far from the bus. you know, the 2 main cause of WvW burnout are: playing too much for the server to earn the maximum points possible (data from WvW seasons we had years ago) and outnumbered being too hard to counter. (each time arenanet change the balance of WvW which intentionaly or unintentionaly increase bus or larger groups effectivness while decreasing smaller group effectivness, fighting guilds leave or disband.) at one point WvW will just become like EOTM with only bus running around and that will be the death of WvW.i want WvW to be and feel different than PvE. i don't want to just follow a bus all day long like i would do on a PvE map. i want to fight. taking objectives are a pretexte to encounter those fights. i want to be able to improve my skills and build to achieve victory against outnumbered fights. i want to feel like a hero in a fantasy world. not a simple soldier that can't do anything against numbers.

no, it would be a healthy addition to WvW with some minor tweak and rebalance.with the boonball meta (which always was a thing), damage overall nerf and downed state, bus are stronger than ever. if you are outnumbered you will not be able to make any significant action to counter that bus or larger group. so all you will do is try to grab a few lost enemy nd that will be your roaming experience.. but feels better and mor fun? downstate is terribly unbalanced between class and feels more like a gimmick for PvE than a properly implemented feature for gameplay purpose. no downstate just proved that one of the "core" gw2 mechanic may not be a good thing after all in a mass PvP environment.

you don't understand. having several skills, if not all of them on cd to down someone just to see him come back isn't fun or rewarding at all.if 4-5 players helps a downed they will raize him so fast that your poor attempt at dealing damage to all of them will result in your death.when the fight is even and one is down, the downed can still dps and CC you. soem will just dps you instead of helping the downed while you are folcused on finishing that downed..in bus vs bus you often waste AOE on downed to be sure of their death instead of hitting the enemy, still alive. by vet players you mean veteran who plays only or mostly gw2, scared to go out of their confort zone blob to learn something new and adapt to the situation?they are the ones who play only/mostly bus in WvW and would hate any change that would nerf the bus, make their game experience harder.

but you still havea chance to turn the tied or significantly diminish your opponent number.whereas with downstate (and rally bot) it is just impossible.

useless. if you are outnumbered you will mostly die the moment you go into downstate.but! what could be interesting is the use... ...of revive skills on dead players instead of on downed. just make it so a revived player can't be revived again if he dies unless he comes back by normal means.that could be either used out of combat only or whenever you want. Or it can be used only 30s after a person's death. something like that.

would making it raize the dead instead of downed a good thing?

all the problem you listed here are true in WvW, even with downstate. at least now the larger group has more chance to loose against smaller groups.

A lot of players adjusted their builds to one shot or lock down a precise spot and explode whatever is there but if no downstate stuck around I think people would ease back into their usual builds again. When I was messing around with timing on area blinds and pulls and stuff to mess with openers I got beat up the worst by players who didn't seem to change anything much. I agree about the mode overall, raising full dead is frustrating and the tighter a zerg tail has to get the less is replenishes. I build to cover people and it's been a wild weekend but I think downstate needs to stay but it needs to be broke down to something basic and make it more about quick team play and less about personal gimmicks that aren't consistent among professions. if downed state stay. they should remove auto attack to make it more fair in small ountumbered, nerf HP pool, restrict healing by one person and remove rally bot completely. but honestly thats alot of tiny changes that would just be resolved with no downed state at all. even more troubling, while the no downed state is active there is more players in WvW than ever, queus on some maps all day long instead of only in prime time and people naturally floc together more and create instinctively lots of little groups of hunter and roamers.which is very healthy for WvW. but maybe thats becasue of it being new and fresh.who know how people would react to it if it was one month long?

you know, the dead can be rez back up with the helpers are not in combat state. also , no downed stae being permanent could also mean that special revive abilities would be used on dead people instead of downed ones. (tho this may cause another uproar. lets say you can be rez back only once by such ability per death.) right now there is alot of boonball problems, damage nerf problem, and many other issues that favour bus play and larger groups.no downstate is a cheap but effective way to balance everything out by itself. becasue the unkillable will be killable again.then you ll only need to adjust some specific, ranger and thief skills (or whatever trylu op skills) instead of changing everything just to see how it goes.(and rework elem, especially the staff.)

erm... if you rely on being in downstate as a core gameplay then something is wrong. becasue that is crearly not what downstate was intended for.i did made some elem roaming and it can be successfull in small group fights but problematic in large group.it all depends on the build. for example elem D/D works with condi gear. elem burst works with old sceptre/focus fresh air. the problem here is the staff.long channeling time for average damage anyclass can do in few seconds. easy to dodge AOE. only the CC is decent in some situation.also elem has so manymid to close range weapons and ability that it takes often too much risk going in. i wish elem would have viable big hitting long range AOE like in any other RPG. so in that regard the problem isn't the no downstate but the elem itself.

i agree about elem. tho creating a gimmick to save unbalanced weak class from being trully unbalanced... is not a solution. getting better at a game is also a satisfying part of the experience.gw2 build diversity should be big. there will always be a build for those less good players to survive and even have a significant impact in a group. its just that now your mistakes are less forgiving.

i wonder, about build diversity. sure you wont have build designed to rez downed fast.. but that is not really a loss either. also you wont have to take a specific skill to finish downed state thus leaving room for more diversity in the build..sometimes changes are for the better.

It is faster. And thats what makes any fight so... hollow. No soul. I fought this morning and its like running in zombie mode. Switch off the brain, kill and move on. Sometimes I just moved on before they even died, just condi burst when running past lol. Since the enemy is equally running like a pack of rabid dogs, its not like you can stop anyway. There is no satisfaction to actually killing players. Its like killing NPCs. Heres the typical scenario after getting someone down with downstate:Whats my HP, am I good enough to perform a stomp?What class is he, what do I need to consider him being able to do?Is there enemy reinforcements incoming?Do I need stealth?Do I need stab?Do I need invouln?Should I cleave him?Do I need to CC ressers?Is it too risky position to do anything, should I withdraw?Do I need to tell my squadmates to suppress him while I stomp?Do I need to tell my squadmates they have to stomp/cleave because I cant?Etc Heres the typical scenario after getting someone down without downstate:He ded downstate is a PvE mechanic... Not really, it was a feature for an MMORPG that did not have actual healers and with obnoxious low skill damage application (this game carries its players by aiming for them in a supposed "action" combat game). In PvP (which is what the combat in this game was designed around) it actually raised the relatively mediocre skill cap of the combat in this game by adding extra teamwork, decision making, awareness, etc, which is why the handful of PvP teams that were actually good in this game tended to manage downstate better than the other PvP teams, it favours better players. Beyond that for PvP it was there for their "e-sports" as it created moments of excitement / drama when someone was downed in a teamfight, though on the other hand it was normally a dull mechanic when it came to a 1v1 on a side node. In fact it became something of a meme, in that the GW2 combat was such a dull spammy mess to watch / commentate on that at times it seemed the only drama in a match or real calls the casters made were in relation to downstate.i do think ths downstate mechanic give a unique feel to sPvP. and it does add some depth. but for WvW it is a pain when playing outside of a bus.

the event barely started and i am already having fun. suddenly roaming and hunting parties become viable against larger groups. you can now wreck havoc in unorganized group of player wandering around.outnumbered is possible if not too outnumbered.i was amazed as we successfully pushed a 3 time larger PUG (yes PUG, not organized guild bus but still) bus. i made other post about WvW balance in the past like, nerfing downed state auto attack, nerfing overall damage was a bad decision, etc..but no downed state just resolve most of the problems.because even if you have a boon ball in front of you, if you kill one player, he is dead. (amazing concept!) instead of getting immediatly rez back and having to put extra effort in killing one.you can still revive dead mates when out of combat anyway. if i had to make a list of good and bad things:good:■ outnumbered is more possible than before.■ smaller groups have a chance of dealing effective blows to bus.■ boonball meta gets affected as a kill will be a death and not an instant rez.■ roaming and hunting feels more rewarding as you don't have to go in and take extra risk for a finisher.■ works very well with the overall damage reduction and CC damage nerf. downed state is atm too strong as a group mechanic and unbalanced for some calss. having to deal extra damage when a boonball or a larger group is already hard to down... as less builds can destroy people in one seconds, i feel it is fait to get less.■ to kill faster players tend to actually use more power builds than condi builds.■ players naturally tend to play together to increase survivability since they can't abuse the downstate mechanic to win a fight.■ when you die you can quickly come back to the fight insetad of waiting to die while downed. (tho it may cause some slight balance issue when taking on a fort close to the enemy starting base) bad:■ death of duels. (obsidian sanctuary and edge of the mist should not have that no downstate debuff.)■ less bags. hard to spam 1 on every downed to get the bags. now you need to commit into the fight to earn your bags. (i personnaly don't care about this but i am sure some does!)■ no finisher. anet needs to sell some cool finishers right? either auto enable finisher on death (but that may be a bit problematic in large group fight.)■ resurrection ability are useless... well what if you could use them to actually revive dead people like i other games instead of downedstate?■ less casual friendly. yes i know that downed state (and less overall damage) helps new players alot in trying to survive against veterans. but maybe that would force those who want to commit to WvW to join a WvW guild and learn with a group? i am always for changes that makes bus less stronger. this event does that without changing much WvW core mechanics or class balance.i am for this event to be permanent. tho i don't know how this may be recieved by the community as there is players who would hate that either because it change the way they would play or becasue they would die too often without coming back to the fight instantly after.or maybe this event could be everyweekend? or every saturday or sunday? anyway, i am really enjoying this event so far :)

It is faster. And thats what makes any fight so... hollow. No soul. I fought this morning and its like running in zombie mode. Switch off the brain, kill and move on. Sometimes I just moved on before they even died, just condi burst when running past lol. Since the enemy is equally running like a pack of rabid dogs, its not like you can stop anyway. There is no satisfaction to actually killing players. Its like killing NPCs. Heres the typical scenario after getting someone down with downstate:Whats my HP, am I good enough to perform a stomp?What class is he, what do I need to consider him being able to do?Is there enemy reinforcements incoming?Do I need stealth?Do I need stab?Do I need invouln?Should I cleave him?Do I need to CC ressers?Is it too risky position to do anything, should I withdraw?Do I need to tell my squadmates to suppress him while I stomp?Do I need to tell my squadmates they have to stomp/cleave because I cant?Etc Heres the typical scenario after getting someone down without downstate:He ded you don't realise how stupid it is to have a fight were the players you downed just go back up. downstate is a PvE mechanic that helps bus or larger groups being even more stronger which isn't healthy at all.now fights are tense, the hunt is enjoyable, some even fear the death becasue they know they wont be rez. when you go in, you put everytihng you can on the table, you stick better than ever because you MUST survive.zerg fights are not that quicker. downed dies very quickly when zerg decide to clash.the only real downside of this event is the death of duels. (and less bags since you can't spam 1 on every downed, but meh)

so some players hate that event because they will die more often? what's WvW? a PvE map? tsss.everything that tone down bus in profite of smaller groups are a good thing.

do it planetside 2 style. make so a guild earn special ressources depending on what it currently hold. (camp, castle, fort?).create special ops only usable by this new ressource. special ops:■ emergency call. start a mass teleport cooldown for all guild members currently in WvW (can be cancelled individually) toward the owned structure. (a charr helicopter could appear above that structure to warn people of an emergency call in that area.)■ dropship support. call out a dropship over the map with a driver, 2 gunners for both sides and passenger from the guild. the gunner is able to fire the dropship canons just like the air call for stonemist castle. only one dropship can be used per server at the same time. drop ships can fire on ovther drop ships too to damage it or its passengers.the driver can move close to another dropship to boeard the targeted dropship. both drop ship would move to enter a boarding state. destroy the core of the enemy drop ship to annihilate it.■ call in the destroyer. a special tank mount you can use to destroy gates, charr heli and dropgates.■ special canons that deal bonus damage to dropships, destroyers, heli, and siege . customize your own castle with permanent defence systems, traps and goodies. well i guess you get the gist of it.create tools that force quilds to protect their belongings. create a guild rivalry system so specific guilds need to take out specific target territory from specific guild.reward guilds that hold of territory with a special ressources to use for unique tactics. let me dream :p

Well Warrior sustain is pretty much reliant on generating might, so you'd see no Warriors that week lol. I think a better way of doing this though would be -95% boon duration week. That way classes that rely on +XYZ benefit when they receive a boon still get the benefit even if the boon just flashes for 1/8s. Another would be a -95% condi duration week :tongue: this will never be balanced. some builds will even become unplayable... or maybe not that much? it would be an interesting weekend to gather data.

there is none atm. it's one guy working on WvW when he is not working on PvE. it is like a side project.

imagine WvW but without any boons.just to see how boons shaped the WvW scene.

you understand that this is all because overall damage got nerfed right? so that only cheesy pure dps build deals enough damage to kill quickly rigth?and because of that bus got stronger while smaller groups got weaker. 1v1 got more interesting but outnumbered is even more of a hassle.now alot of semi dps spec or bruiser have better survivability but less damage. so more chance of +1 and less success in 1v2. you must understand that, nerfing damage again like CMC wanted to do (with a heal efficiency reduction) will hurt roaming and small groups even more while making bus the kings. damage in WvW should not be globally reduced (except for CC skills. that was a nice addition despite rendering a few skills useless because of it like the mine tool for engineer.) without any other changes.skills need to be nerfed independently so that specs like holosmith doesn't deal 20K on a reaper with photonforge4 (tested that in guild hall arena) while other specs that struggle in dealing good damage or burst isn't touched that much.another example is soulbeast. if you fuse with a pig you can, with the right build, hit someone from 10K to 13K just with the F1. you basically have a melee skill that one shot any glass builds with less than 13K hp. (still doable in WvW rigth now) those kind opf skills NEED to be nerfed but not at the cost of everything else.any change that helps small groups kill larger groups are a good thing. BUT, i can agree about a mass dps nerf if Boons and Downedstate also get a rework. (not just playing with the nerf and up button)