NorthernRedStar.3054

It is neither durable nor does it dish out a lot of damage. There are certain classes and builds it can do a fine job of dueling against (favored-to-clearly-favored if you're good w/ it), and others are unkillable regardless of boon strip. If you compared s/d to, say, herald or soulbeast or burn guard, you'll notice it's far from "durable" - evasion does not count as durability; it counts as survivability. Pre-Feb 2020 patch this was an effective necromancer kill machine - now, thanks to the numerous base damage, scale and initiative nerfs, it takes quite a long time to kill a competent player. After the recent changes the evasion time and mobility took a notable (noticeable) hit, and the build is riskier than before (which I don't mind much). Personally, I would've rather seen them change SoA into a single-target effect, or even raised the cooldown by 5 seconds instead of the 25 endurance nerf. D/p thief is still something of an achilles heel for this build. S/d and d/p both scale with the user's experience and creativity. While thief has to exert more effort than a lot of the other classes, either build is an effective 'newbie stomper'. You'll have an easier time utilizing condi thief, though; a superiorly easier build with low skill floor and cap. Roamer / decapper 1st, duelist and pest 2nd if you feel confident. Lot of people get salty when a thief T-bags on them 1v1.

Legend has it that's what most non-necro players have been pondering since the dawn of Guild Wars 2.

We weren't talking about DH Spear damage though. We were talking about whether the skill is un-evadable and if that un-evadable aspect is easily applied/there is an excuse to being hit by it. the answer to both of those questions is yes on Trapper rune builds, since trapper rune makes it easier to apply the first spear skill. Even if we were, the spear damage is not solely relevant to the synergy with Trapper runes. My issue is that Trapper Runes gives guardians a means to hide animations that high damage skills rely on to justify them. Spear tether is just one of those. ^.Guardians already have generous amounts of damage mitigation built into their core. Their weaknesses- Namely that they are ordinarily highly visible and have telegraphed animations/are only mobile in bursts are all covered by Trapper Rune. Not to mention it's impossible to be looking around you at a 360-degree angle at all times. Being hit by spear is, by all means, a real possibility even in part thanks to foul luck.

Yaa thanks for the correction. But I'm sure you get the point though. Twist of Fate is just an example. You're right about it's cooldown, but the cooldown was not really important to the point I was making. Yes CD is very important. If u havent noticed, there is no build with more than one long cd skill. If every skill gives negative effect on u, its the same as if no one skill gives negative. I know its fantasy game but there is no logic u should get penalty for using stunbreak or evading an attack. Penalty is for wasting long cd skill and dying cuz u cant use it. Fantasy game yet in real life i can survive a lot longer weapon attacks than my thief does Thief has enough sustain, if u are facetanking damage, cant cleanse or dodge then blame your skills, not class. I said in a previous post: im not gonna name classes because i dont believe in feeding trolls.Well i f....d up. my bad. You're playing a high-skill cap class that also happens to be squishy when they're not careful but is given the toolset to be very cautious. You knew exactly what you were in for when you give a comment like that. You're also playing a class almost nobody in PvP likes because they've been prevalent since just about the beginning of time because of their mobility and ability to +1, even when people supposedly call them "bad" on the forums. How bad the class must be to remain a staple. It's a high skill cap class with low reward output. It may not have been along the lines of Fresh Air ele skill cap, but people that were good can punish poor plays severely. The only reason why Theif was ever prevalent/staple in PvP is because of mobility, and its role in decapping, +1 shouldn't even be considered because that's pretty much tied in with mobility. Not to mention Any class can +1. Thief is a high skill cap class that starts off with high reward output (vs worse players) and slowly drifts towards the lower end of the spectrum as you progress through more and more skilled opponents. You can definitely stomp noobs 1vX as thief, but even that will always take more effort than other classes. Revenant has had a stronger +1 for nearly the entirely of its existence; the reason, as you stated, for thief's prevalence has been out-of-combat mobility and decap. I also agree AND disagree with @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 in that more skills, particularly on classes that "spam" a lot, should have a definite anti-positive when used / used repeatedly within a short time frame. The easiest example from GW1 that comes to mind is overcast; however, GW2 is such a fundamentally different game from its predecessor that is nigh' impossible to compare the two in this manner or reflect the changes forward. Some skills already have a 'downside' in either moving you to an unfavorable position or telegraphing you for your opponent. On the other hand we have shouts and commands that are basically just a form of "Kitten you, nope." I think many Signets are some of the most interesting skills in this aspect, and the most well-balanced; an (often) instant cast which trades a passive favor for a short-period active benefit. And I think some - but not all - skills could do with a similar re-structuring in order to fresh out the game.

Dragonhunter. Clear, defined strengths and weaknesses. Visual clarity and satisfying effects. Timing-reliant and contains nuance I can appreciate. Firebrand's too much like elementalist: less about timing and game sense, more about skill chaining and no real weaknesses as a result of flexibility that's hard to balance. If we speak about trapper rune DH, I'll take Firebrand. Meditrapper is the apex, though.

You're years behind. Longbow DH used to be a frequent thing in PvP back in 2015-2016, and was aptly playable before Feb 2020. In PvE it's never been a high-end thing, because it lacks consistent dps and traps have superior burst. They actually did a fine job of differentiating guardian's longbow playstyle from ranger's. The former is a more 'zone-oriented' control style of play, whereas the latter is constantly on the move like a lone predator. I was an avid player of meditrapper DH before the balance changes went on to contently butcher that build. Easy to play, but with a LOT of nuance. Satisfying to master.

Your lists nearly matches mine. I would add that i like condi cleanse from healing seed - REALLY useful when burning guards and necros are in dominating pvp. I'm tempted to put Blinding Tuft at #1 spot. Blind + stealth is ALWAYS useful, in nearly every situation conceivable, plus you can get an added daze from Pommel Attack and added dps from Backstab. I'd also put Whirling Axe at #2 because Healing Seed is sort of 'you're already losing = lose less' -type of skill. It is definitely a life-saver at times, but so is Whirling Axe. Axe in general has more options and is, again, more useful in a wider range of scenarios. A fine point about Mace, but you can oftentimes strip that stab w/ Bountiful Theft and/or Larcenous Strike. If you add Mace on top (x2 if sword main), that's locking a bunker down right there. So in my books Mace > Sap.

Thief. Insane amount of outplay potential and brings up the player's creativity a notch. Despite Anet frequently gutting thief's 1v1 output, I enjoy this class in dueling the most.

Literally this ^ Also, it is never good to make a trait (or entire tree, which is unfortunately already the case with Trickery) too strong/desirable because it limits build diversity. Reaper's Onslaught is a great example of that. It is a near mandatory trait and it works with any Reaper build. Why take anything else when the other options are so much weaker and less versatile? If Bountiful Theft were to be buffed in the way OP suggests it would just make it a mandatory pick and make almost the entire Trickery tree a static selection across every build. Remember when Warrior was like that with Defense? It wasn't fun. To be fair, thief isn't limited by 'a single trait being too strong per tree'; it's limited by every other trait in said lines ranging from mediocre to useless in nearly every meta.

Buff one of the better (/best) traits thief has? How about we buff Trickster and change Pressure Striking instead?

What would you nerf? Daredevil line lol. Its busted You'd nerf the entire daredevil trait line? Seems vague. On the other hand, I can see this line of thinking (particularly if we assume you're a warrior main based on your choice of AVI): thief is supposed to be a punching bag that soaks in all damage instead of evading and avoiding it. It's surprisingly common for warrior players in particular to be shouting "coward" or "stop running" after a thief's forced them to retreat or killed them after a soft reset.

Some more than others. Not to sound like a broken record, but revenant's been the king of power builds for a lengthy while now. Thief isn't one-shotting anyone in 2021. Especially not a guardian. In WvW that's possible, but leaves you glass against anything except NPCs. There's only so much skill difference equalization a veteran player will take before leaving. The current PvP meta is one of the most skill-negating metas I've ever seen. This isn't League of Legends. You should be able to play anything you want without being hard-countered as long as you got the skill and experience to back it up. The issue with bunker metas is, you end up with a very strict selection of builds that are viable. More so than usual. As long as you're able to kill the enemy, your build is - to some extent - viable.

Meditrapper was fine before the rework. Slightly on the weaker side, but playable into a lot of comps. I was an avid player of it, and enjoyed great a many hours on it.

You do realize that's fundamentally broken and impossible to balance?

wvw yeah damage is good but pvp conquest is a whole different beast entirely and uve got classes that have no right to be bursting anywhere close to a rogue like while having tank stats.If u can tank a lot of damage than the reason why USUALLY that class does not have high burst is because u can stay in the fight and build ur dps up through sustained dps while a rogue like cannot and has to do its damage entirely through bursts unless of course the rogue is far more skilled than opponent and is able to stay in the fight.Right now uve got classes that can take continuous long bouts of pressure all while bursting as much or more than the thief, thats so messed up.Anyway just my opinion, I hardly play these days so matters little. Not just that, the entire meta's turned hostile towards thief w/ Rune of the Trapper all over the place. If there's no bunker on the node you can be sure there's at least a sidenode trapper in there. CMC logic: "Let's remove all of thief's burst AND heavily gimp their ability to remain in a fight as a sustained DPS - oh, they've turned to roaming you say? Well then, gimp their mobility WITHOUT ANY COMPENSATIONS. That'll show them what's balance. " Pure genius. Absolute, unadultered, bunker main logic.

I am always confused by people arguing like this. If this is true, then DH can never get buffed without making it OP, because of the rune. Change/delete the rune, then buff the rest of DH - slightly, noone likes passive trap bots, but the pushing/pulling playstyle was fun and challenging. This also enables more build diversity, because the rune is less of a straight up addon to some few burst builds. I agree 100%. If dh is viable because of trapper rune and gbage without it that clearly indicates not only are their sever problems with the dh spec but also with trapper runes.Trapper ruins 6th bonus needs a rework or hard nerf and if needed dh some buffs in area to make it viable, hopefully in a manner that doesn't promote a skill less playstyle as is trap dh currently."B-but Trapper Rune has remained unchanged for years kwkwkwkwkw." Yeah, not like other changes happened that indirectly and massively buffed the rune, LEL. The most skill-less, monotone and low risk promoting rune. But we get it, Anet and CMC. You hate roamers, you hate timing-reliant risk/reward builds.

What would you nerf? Off the top of my head:-Damage shave on Shadow shot and remove its blind. This skill has been extremely bloated forever.-Damage shave on Skirmisher's shot-%damage per malice reduced on Death's Judgement-Remove damaging condi application from Steal traits and replace with utility (I am a firm believer that condi builds should NEVER be burst-related since its impossible to balance thanks to Dire/TB) I've probably had a couple more come to mind but those stand out.I would've agreed with Shadow Shot nerf pre-Feb 2020. Rest seems fine.

What would you nerf?

Lol cmon. In pvp teefs a loss vs every class but war and mesmer, even then a good warrior can definitely out play and destroy a thief, especially if thief misses a couple blinds. It has to +1 most classes to down them, and in this meta that can even take too long when u combine the tanks builds around now with the Feb damage nerfs. Thief has to make good on decapping to pull its weight which just got nerfed with IA cost nerf and jump on already engaged targets to get its downs more times than not, that sound op?A class designed like thief/rogue already produces salt, combine that with +1 playstyle which creates salt on its own is a recipe for hate, but its not thief players fault that they enjoy rogue classes and that this particular one isn't great at 1v1's.Wvw, Teefs excel at roaming, shouldn't they though? They certainly have far less presence in zergs than almost any other class ie warrior. Almost ever class contributes to zerg fights far more than thief if not all so shouldn't it be allowed to be good at roaming.U know its funny u see very very few thiefs complaining about thief short commings in zerg fights yet tons of players who on their own accord chose to play a class/build more suited to zergs complain about thief being strong at roaming compared to their class yet dont consider how and why when their killed on their way to their zerg where they become 2x more useful than a teef could dream of. To add some classes like warrior as a example have both effective zerg builds and roaming builds so its fine if the warrior tho great at roaming isn't as good as a class like teef who specializes in the roaming role.Honestly bias has led this game down the drain but that's on anet in the end. It's funny, though; thief's traditionally been one of the better roamer classes in WvW, yet is clearly being overtaken by revenant, ranger and engineer. Thief is cleanly out-DPS'd in every game mode even if they choose a non-stealth build with a focus on dueling. Stealth is the sole reason the class is even able to exist at the moment. Sad, so kitten sad. Yeah I honestly couldn't imagine thief trying to 1v1 these days without stealth lol its been nerfed to the ground, its sad the main burst class gets out burst by tanks nowadays lmao.Rune of Durability + marauder gear > thief. The sad truth.

Lol cmon. In pvp teefs a loss vs every class but war and mesmer, even then a good warrior can definitely out play and destroy a thief, especially if thief misses a couple blinds. It has to +1 most classes to down them, and in this meta that can even take too long when u combine the tanks builds around now with the Feb damage nerfs. Thief has to make good on decapping to pull its weight which just got nerfed with IA cost nerf and jump on already engaged targets to get its downs more times than not, that sound op?A class designed like thief/rogue already produces salt, combine that with +1 playstyle which creates salt on its own is a recipe for hate, but its not thief players fault that they enjoy rogue classes and that this particular one isn't great at 1v1's.Wvw, Teefs excel at roaming, shouldn't they though? They certainly have far less presence in zergs than almost any other class ie warrior. Almost ever class contributes to zerg fights far more than thief if not all so shouldn't it be allowed to be good at roaming.U know its funny u see very very few thiefs complaining about thief short commings in zerg fights yet tons of players who on their own accord chose to play a class/build more suited to zergs complain about thief being strong at roaming compared to their class yet dont consider how and why when their killed on their way to their zerg where they become 2x more useful than a teef could dream of. To add some classes like warrior as a example have both effective zerg builds and roaming builds so its fine if the warrior tho great at roaming isn't as good as a class like teef who specializes in the roaming role.Honestly bias has led this game down the drain but that's on anet in the end. It's funny, though; thief's traditionally been one of the better roamer classes in WvW, yet is clearly being overtaken by revenant, ranger and engineer. Thief is cleanly out-DPS'd in every game mode even if they choose a non-stealth build with a focus on dueling. Stealth is the sole reason the class is even able to exist at the moment. Sad, so damn sad.

I am "not OK" with PvP. Period.

Ranger literally counters burn guard, so... I see you chose to ignore reaper, but your missing the point anyway. That was just an example, any class can beat a burn guard if played well. Burn guards are one trick ponies though they do that trick very well. Burn guards rely on your condi cleanse being on cooldown or you not knowing how to disengage. Sometimes in PvP its better to disengage and +1 a different point if you know you can't win that fight. Burn guard is countered by other classes, just like any other class has its counters. Its burning can be ridiculous and is over tuned, but far from over powered.Í wouldn't call guardian's burn access ridiculous or overtuned when it's tied to a specific bunch of telegraphed skills that can be dodged, blocked and even reflected. Burn guard doesn't rely on your cleanse being on cooldown as much as it relies on you blowing it too early due to being scared kittenless. The build is an extremely good example of a pure-class newbie stomper that falls off harder the higher you go. Due to lack of cover condis you're forced to sacrifice utility sigils to retain pressure-able firepower. This is particularly noticeable when you're facing more than 1 person at a time. Personally, I use greatsword in some matchups so I can disengage and whittle the opponent down from range when necessary, as well as unload my melee burst faster.

Herald's issues can't be solved without a full revamp on a number of skills and traits. The only ones defending the spec at this point are the abusers; best profession in PvP, WvW, great in PvE ... It's amazing how Anet refuses to tone this cluster-kitten down.

Comparing reaper and revenant (herald, to be precise) is like apples and oranges. Reaper is extremely telegraphed for the entirety of its kit, and you can see everything they do clearly from a visual and audio perspective. They hit hard, but are extremely fair in terms of counterplay. Revenant has some telegraphs as well, but those can be largely negated by the fact they have multiple blinks on an insane range for such a tanky profession. Apart from those, they have better access to boons, apply much better consistent pressure even with their main burst skills on cooldown, and sustain themselves much better than reaper does in skirmishes and 1v1's. The hate comes from people who realize how broken this class is, both from a fundamental as well as a numbers perspective. Yes, a bad revenant is most likely a free kill no matter where you encounter them. But anywhere from decent to great you'll start to see the issues with the class: low windows of vulnerability (and people complain about ranger's counterattack, lol), high mobility and burst (hello there, thief nerfs), versatility and utility thanks to legend swapping etc. the list goes on. On a heavy armor class. Who on earth thought this was a good idea during development phase.

No other class the absurd combination of sustain AND burst damage that revenant has, on both condi and power. The class has been broken for nearly the entirety of its existence; there's almost nothing it doesn't do: good CCgreat sustainbest burst in the gamegood/great mobilityutility and buffsHow did the meme-worthy saying go, again? "Best players tend to play revenant, that's why the class performs so good" KEKW. It never quite occurred to me how people could keep on complaining about thief while ignoring herald.