NorthernRedStar.3054

There's no reason for it to be so low. Massive initiative cost, roots you, telegraphed; yet hardly punishes anyone it hits. There's no many blocks and invulns in the meta right now that people can just walk out of it, too.

My point exactly. For such a hard-to-hit skill, it sure feels mediocre. 3 seconds of quickness during which your opponent can kite away to waste the duration because dagger has no other sticking tools and a crappy reach. 1.5s* :) But yeah as much as I would love an evade on this skill, I would be happy if they extended the range a bit and also cleaned up the animation so it becomes better at tracking and pursuing. Feels like I'm playing leapfrog when I use it. Giving it cripple would be really nice too, but at that point perhaps it'd be too similar to Monarch's Leap. I didn't even know it had been split. Holy bad, bad, bad skill.

My point exactly. For such a hard-to-hit skill, it sure feels mediocre. 3 seconds of quickness during which your opponent can kite away to waste the duration because dagger has no other sticking tools and a crappy reach.

Considering how dagger is not as much a burst weapon as it is damage-over-time, why doesn't dagger 3 contain an evade? It already has a telegraphed pre- and after-cast, and a fairly short travel distance. Damage aside, this is a change I'd like to see, both in PvP and PvE.

Holy eff' is ranger still being complained about? Almost anyone nukes ranger in melee without the block. It's a hit-and-run -type of weapon. Claiming it's "outstandingly best" out of all Greatswords (or 2-handed weapons) is just plain silly. Everything it has it of long cast time, and easily dodgeable, interruptible and predictable. This is an L2P-issue. Seriously.

Thief 1v3 far for a minute, allies 4v2 home, enemy has the mid node. Blame the thief, obviously. It's become synonymous to finding a scapegoat for one's own crappy rotations/mechanics.

Drawbacks:Birds/Tigers actually explode when focused at all. And then 50% of the Core Ranger's damage output is on a 60s CD.Can't peel/disengage for #$%^. When 2v1 focused by competent players at all, it dies. <- This is the first big reason why Core Ranger is not viable for tournament, because it lacks the disengage play required to stay alive long enough to do anything at all, in higher tiered play environments. The 2nd reason why Core Ranger or Soulbeast is not viable for tournament, is because the majority of the bell curve or bellow community always gets it nerfed from being able to do so. Let me explain something to you very carefully. Ok so all of the objects that have been placed in the pvp maps, those were meant to be used for LOS and positioning. These are mechanics designed into the game that were meant to be used against Longbows and Rifles and Shortbows and all ranged projectiles. However, bell curve and bellow players ignore this. They are the types of players who walk into the middle of Eternal Coliseum mid and stand there on the node while a Deadeye is shooting at them, and completely ignore the 4 pillars and the boxes around the node. When they die to the DE or a Ranger, they come into this forum and complain about how OP high the damage is. Higher tiered players above the bell curve wouldn't let that happen. 1 - They have good map awareness and would position themselves with an object in between themselves and the ranged attacker before he even arrives to the team fight. 2 - If they were caught unaware which does happen sometimes, they quickly react an begin to LOS. So what we are really talking about here, is the point where players rise from ignoring LOS mechanics, to utilizing them. Rangers are very OP in environments where players ignore LOS mechanics, and this is where all of the complaining is coming from. However, in environments where players do utilize these mechanics often and know how to exploit them, the effectiveness of Ranger drops through the floor to where it is no longer viable amongst high tiered play. <- This is because the large bulk of the community complains about how high powered ranged is, as they choose to ignore built in game mechanics that were meant to be used to deal with the ranged. And then Arenanet listens to this bulk of QQ, and Ranger gets balanced around that, instead of around high tiered players who actually utilize all the mechanics granted to them. Ranger is a weird class due to the difference in effectiveness between bellow bell curve and above bell curve for the above reasons ^ Ranger is very strong against bad players, but Ranger is just bad against good players. Unfortunately for all of the reasons described, Arenanet struggles to find a cherry sweet spot to settle the balance so that it works for everyone. Pretty much sums it up. Rangers have plenty of disengage? Half the time it feels like most of my team is chasing some ranger across the map. I mean sure it isn’t as good as a thief, but it has plenty of disengage. Soulbeast especially if you run a bird. Obviously it isn’t as good as thief or some of the warrior builds but it’s still more than enough. Even more than Mesmer right now unless the mes is running portal, which is just a waste in solo queue. That is misinformed. An example of when the community takes 2 or 3 different build structures that a class can run, and then in their mind they cram it all together and believe that there is this one build that is doing everything.Core Ranger gets only this for disengage - Greatsword #3 Swoop - Longbow #3 stealth - And then super speed on Quick Zephyr if you want to count that. No one wastes time with Smokescale field stealthing on Core Ranger because there isn't enough leap/blasts on Core to make it effective. In no way does Core Ranger have anywhere near the disengage factor as: Warrior/Spellbreaker with multiple movement skills and ability to ignore immobilization - No where even near the disengage as any Thief build - Doesn't even compare to the disengage of Soulbeast - Dude what? Core Ranger has no where even NEAR the stealth & disengage factor of a Mesmer/Mirage, not even close. You're talking ground target teleports, stealth skills that don't require hitting a target to use, and in some cases super speed on just about every utility used. As much as anti-ranger advocates would want to argue this, the Core Ranger's disengage factor is more on par with a Reaper honestly.Soulbeast is where there is disengage factor. And no, it isn't coming from bird swoop. The swoop was nerfed into a much higher CD than it was before. 25s cool down non traited, 18s with trait, that's terrible in merge for the lack of other utility on the bird. Soulbeasts aren't aiming at big bird autos. They are aiming for utility in merge play. If a Soulbeast has great disengage, it is using Rock Gazelle F2, which is an equal distance traversed to swoop "1200 range" and on only a 12s CD. The Gazelle also offers CC, Worldy Impact, and an F1 skill that hits hard & fast easy to land. Regardless, the Soulbeast can GS3Swoop into Gazelle or Bird F2 1200 range into LB3 stealth into Smokescale field 2x leaps & blast from Clarion = actual stealth uptime worth using = real disengage factor, enough to shake things like Heralds & DP Thieves & Mesmers. However, the Soulbeast cannot stay and brawl in the same way that a Core Ranger can in 1v1s because the Soulbeast has to run primarily DPS traits/utilities. It can't take hits like Core Ranger to be able to stand on a node. The Soulbeast either kills fast or gets killed fast or must run. Only rarely does it have opportune moments to stay in one place for very long to brawl, because it straight loses to other metas where the players are of same skill, and it gets focused immediately when other players see they have an opportunity to attack a DPS spec. Even if the Soulbeast is of high skill factor, to be able to survive he'll be kiting off node and losing that node just as quickly as he took it. So understand that there are two very different specs being ran here, with two very different roles:Core Ranger - It's tanky. It's good in 1v1 side node fights where pets have more realistic survivability. Terrible in team fights where AoE DPS is being tossed all over because pets explode too fast to be utilized. Good in solo queue at bell curve or bellow. Bad in high tiers because people don't fall for pet gimmicks and coordinated DPS output is way way way too high for pet sustain to remain practical, or even the Core Ranger's limited ability to kite for that matter. This build is just a gimmick that works well in solo for side nodding against around bell curve opponent teams who haven't the coordination to know how to deal with it. Rather than +ing against it, players often don't communicate and then they begin trying to ignore it rather than kill it. This has always been the case with strong side node presence in yolo queue, Core Ranger is no different other than the psychological effect that the pet makes people feel like they are being 2v1'd.Soulbeast - Great mobility/disengage, 2nd only to Thief or a Herald that is chasing. Still excellent DPS + potential, though most of it is single strike oriented. It's just as bad as Core Ranger in team fights for different reasons. It can side node in 1v1 if the Soulbeast player is good and knows what he's doing, however it is mandatory to play primarily off node against most of the dominant bruiser classes including Core Rangers, because it cannot afford to take hits. So the Soulbeast is not a primary node presence, but rather something more akin to a DP Thief with a longbow. Where a Core Ranger could hold a node against anything 1v1 but die when he gets 2v1'd, the opposite takes effect for Soulbeast. The Soulbeast can't hold a node for @#$% but it can run and survive 2v1s. Core Ranger is a Side Node duelist. Soulbeast is a DPS +. They aren't the same thing, they don't do the same things, they aren't the same build. @"cptaylor.2670 " Sorry, this wasn't all aimed at you. Just needed to get this off my chest in light off all this bellow the bell curve amalgamated Ranger complaint lately. People can complain about and make w/e suggestions they want as far as I'm concerned. I just want to see them doing it with accurate understanding.Excellent summary.

Isn't the whole point rewarding a well-timed F3 activation on core (and DH)? Non-traited stunbreak just makes it another free out-of-jail card.

If we go by hints and lore presented in both Guild Wars and Guild Wars 2, then it'd appear human race is somewhat special and has the unique ability to absorb and utilize a wider array of magic than the other races. "You already have our blessing." - something the gods communicate via their avatars in Gate of Madness. In other words, anyone in the party with Kormir had the potential and capability to absorb Abaddon's rampart magic. On the other hand, we have cases like Gaheron Baelfire, who would appear to have attained a vast magical power - but contrary to humans who attain such power from other beings of magical potency, he'd appear to have been collecting magical artifacts such as Sohothin to boost himself. It's unclear how much of Gaheron's power actually resided in himself, so to speak. Also, being one of The Six Human Gods =/= being a divine entity (as far as 'former' gods go). Balthazar being stripped of his claim and title essentially translates into him no longer being the 'patron god' of fire and war. He's still a god / divine entity none the less, just not the 'primary' / 'foremost'. Clearly he still retained many abilities even after the others apparently 'de-powered' him (see him re-igniting Sohothin and creating portals). A lot of this is just speculation and I doubt even the devs have given it as much thought yet. It appears to be established, though, that titles and ranks mean little, as there's much differentiation even among dragon champions, gods and common foot soldiers.

Ability to inflict Exhaustion is too unbalancedIf yu can actively force someone to run out of dodges, it would be too strong considering how often Thieves can interrupt someone. Thieves are already extremely oppressive because of their quick burst damage and their extreme mobility, which is already alot to handle without them actively making people unable to continue dodging just because they landed a few lucky interrupts spamming Headshot or Choking Cloud. There are better ways to implement OP's vision, and inflicting Exhaustion on Interrupt is absolutely not one of them. Obviously it'd have an internal cooldown. Spamming vigor every 5 seconds, however....

You can't cleave a person down fast enough in a 1v2, on a power build, even if you out-skill the opposition and have interrupts. In other words, the player with better mechanical ability doesn't get rewarded here.

Too strong, honestly. I like OP's suggestion.

A toughness penalty while rezzing someone? Because 'staying still' just isn't cutting it with these lower damage numbers.

have seen the first build in pvp...not sure how it s viable with berserker amulet(18k hp and almost base toughness)...second one is newer to me...all i see is heal via regen and some endurance share and stun break ..have to try it to check how much this works...thanks for sharing the builds The heal is because you can whirl in it and gain health from wind borne notes, plus you have a leap and blast finisher. You get a 10k heal to allies every 40s as well as 3s of resistance. I've run it and its viable, but honestly firebrand and tempest offer more. Also first build was a guess. Could definitely go demolishers and maybe drop something for sic em. I agree with you that this can be used as some decent builds...but they can never be meta....because they simply dont have enough against most classes> @"NorthernRedStar.3054" said: This is the very impression I was having about ranger ...very true matedps can be spiky but all stars need to be aligned...with recent nerfs the max spike is not that fancy enough to create impact...support roles are underwhelming compared to other classes...condi classes are a joke tbh...i couldn get past plat 1 with any build(playing with 250-300 ping on avg)...i was not sure if i am not skillful enough or the rotations on ranger classes are weak to carry matchesI'd like to add that since ranger COMPLETELY lacks access to boon removal (outside sigils - again, you lose damage modifiers if you run evocation etc.), they're effectively hard-counted by perma-protection appliers like prot holo. If you drop intelligence you'll be hitting like a wet fart most of the time. Pretty much all classes have the tools to negate a lot of ranger's damage and/or pet pressure. The complaints are null and often completely misinformed. For example, people cry about pets hitting them for ~7-9k with a beast skill - why does this happen? Because people don't know how ranger's damage modifiers work. The sole thing they're aware of is "they got dem dmgez!" Whereas in reality, that's a combination of multiple one-attack modifiers comboed (i.e. cancel-headbutt) with one another. One stun-break / evade ruins the whole thing, leaving ranger back at tame range of damage - which is where you'd rather have a thief or warrior on the job. "But I can't hold a node while ranger's pet is smacking me as they rapid fire!" - can you sit in the middle of the node against mesmer? Deadeye? Firebrand??? People do not like or understand classes / specialization that rely on precise timings to unleash damage / comboes. They're too used to spamming mindlessly on elementalists, necromancers, revenants and guardians. When someone outplays them, they're in shock - it's not a playstyle they're familiar with. It's unfair!

The more ANET nerfs ranger's damage, the more dependant they become on the WS tree, and the more defensive utilities they're forced to slot. The further they do this, the more and more ranger loses damage, since they lose both passive AND active damage modifiers. The end result is a cumulative effect that affects them more than other classes, because if ranger cannot deal damage and apply pressure on sides ... What do they do, really? Teamfight with the new 5-target Whirling Defense? And Mender Amulet? Please.

PVP it s DPS Soulbeast is still viable, and core ranger is arguably one of the best side noders. Though I expect nerfs to these soon. There are also quite a few hybrid/condi builds that are decent for just fun queues. Expecting nerfs to BOTH soulbeast and core ranger? Hahaha, mate. Core ranger is decent , but can't force out-duel an ele or rev fast enough to warrant the side-noder role. At this stage, you're better off with a thief - similar damage, better survivability and utility. Yes, a good ranger can stomp some pugs. So can necromancer, revenant, etc. but with less effort.

Eats all the heavier damaging skills like a good standby golem: "It's not me, it's the class!" This is the best self-own in this thread.

If you feel a Moses leading your herd, great! I've seen the strike and raid population stir upwards, and that's a good thing.

Maybe you slow?

What. Reaper boasts some of highest open world damage, which is why they're so popular among pugs. You're mixing them up with organized end-game content, where quickness-boosted DH, warrior and soulbeast have stronger burst rotations and better sustained damage.

For PvP it was doing slightly too much damage. In the right hands - like mine (since I've mained power ranger since launch, and mained this build in question for the last year) - it was absolutely devastating everyone. I hit legend in 2v2s, slayed teamfights In ATs it was a veritable blood bath. It was high risk with high reward and I patiently waited for my windows to get in and land my damage... essentially one shotting even the best people. And they didn't like it - thinking it was too easy yet unable to play it themselves at the same level. Funny enough, this build was actually BETTER pre-CC patch. It was just harder to play due to the higher damage rolling around. So for me, the nerfs were expected in some way. I think they did a fair job explaining them. Unfortunately, I think they went a little too far. It doesn't feel like the high risk of MM/BM/SB out weigh the risk when you can easily be pressured by condi mesmer (due to so many gap closers, and the lack of sustained condi clear), daredevil (due to unblockable steal and short bow 4 to interrupt your block), power rev (due to gap closers), a good spellbreaker, even HARD countered by MM-necro lol. Yet these weren't being played. There were like 0 counters being played... now some people are starting to play these builds and despite my experience... I find the reward for playing the build no longer outweighs the risk... I can outplay so well and yet i dont do enough damage anymore to pressure a counter class off of me now... But I'm not the audience... and I think for casual PvP and WvW the damage was just too high. It's truly unfortunate imo. There are MUCH easier builds out there for PvP with WAY less risk and almost the same reward... and that's not what I want to see. Well, this is ranger in a nutshell right now: outplay everyone for a smaller reward than everyone, who can just soak in your damage and sustain it right back up or tank it with protection, barrier or blinds. Unlike some other meta classes right now, ranger actually has quite a few hard counters.

Condi-bunkers are actively pushing the game in this direction. If it's not condi, it's protection holo or ele that slowly bores you to death. Slowly paving way for clueless pugs to sit afk on a node and require 3 people to kill them.

The best part is, people still want more ranger nerfs. They want to see Maul reduced to an auto -level of damage. They want to see Sic 'Em gone, pets reduced to bone minions and ranger's already low sustain not compensated by any form of utility, block or evade. I've been on various streams these past few weeks, and I can confidently say a lot of the community hates ranger for no other reason than not understanding how the class functions. Imagine if we didn't have Sigil of Intelligence and Lesser Quickening Zephyr; just for F'd we'd be.

TS was nerfed by 38% (combination of damage nerf and CD). DS, literal zero damage. LB 5 only the final hit deals damage now. Spear no damage. ToF no initial damage. And the target is not likely to stay in it or pass through it more than once. Feel free to give the damage skills whatever weight you like. The fact that I gave 50% considering that it’s main two damage skills got 38% and 100% damage reduction, is pretty generous do not you think? As for FB being better no kitten. It has been the only competitive build since core nerf a year ago. what kitten good is this balance patch if the only competitive build remained the only competitive build. And the margin between it and the other builds in viability got even bigger? TS still hits hard, deflecting Shot is a usual nerf that every CC got, LB5 hits never dealt any real dmg besides last hit, spear never dealt real dmg, inital ToF hit never dealt real dmg (the dmg buff on crossing made the skill actually stronger)You don't take ToF for the damage, you take it for the insta-cast, slow, cripple and utility (zone of control) that you could potentially combo off of. Pre-patch you could kill someone with LB 2-3, sword and a few bounces between ToF. Granted, it was extremely hard to land of all that. They killed a lot of the cool stuff with LB 3 changes.