Legendary Togo and Xun Rao's Greatsword

[phokus.8934]

I can’t wait for the legend to be the complete opposite of what people are expecting.

[Brunnsteinangel.2568]

1 hour ago, Parthenos Polias.5683 said:

 
"What can the revent offer for ritualist-style gameplay, that another class can not do better?"
In two words : Energy Management.

Energy Management has always be a huge part of Ritualist.
And as you can see the OP, the caster/Togo way of the Ritualist has energy management mechanisms.
So, this is the only GW2 profession which can handle that.
 

 

Energy management was huge with _EVERY_ class in GW1, as it was one of the core mechanic.

 

So all your answer boils down to is, "I want to play gw1 ritualist".

Well, then off you go, play GW1.

[Parthenos Polias.5683]

4 hours ago, Brunnsteinangel.2568 said:

 

Energy management was huge with _EVERY_ class in GW1, as it was one of the core mechanic.

 

So all your answer boils down to is, "I want to play gw1 ritualist".

Well, then off you go, play GW1.

Or not...
Only Ritualist got max energy modifiers skills.

Number of energy-related skills by profession  ---   ratio (prof/assassin)
Assassin  : 9  --- 1
Paragon  : 9  --- 1
Dervish  : 10  --- 1.1
Monk  : 12  --- 1.3
Warrior : 13  --- 1.4
Ranger : 15  --- 1.7
Necromancer : 18  --- 2
Ritualist : 21  --- 2.3
Elementalist : 24  --- 2.7
Mesmer : 48  --- 5.3

Edited September 2, 2021 by Parthenos Polias.5683

[Brunnsteinangel.2568]

20 minutes ago, Parthenos Polias.5683 said:

Or not...
Only Ritualist got max energy modifiers skills.

Number of energy-related skills by profession :
Assassin  : 9
Paragon  : 9
Dervish  : 10
Monk  : 12
Warrior : 13
Ranger : 15
Necromancer : 18
Ritualist : 21
Elementalist : 24
Mesmer : 48

 

Soooo.... your "defens" is that "ritualist was soooo depended on energy" and then list relevant energy skills across the GW1 professions, showing that some classes had more, and most at least close to the same amount of skills for energy.
And... surprise, they got in GW2 without energy and work.

 

Sooo... tldr: Ritualist has ZERO (0) need for energy and could be perfectly addopted on one of the other professions.

Edited September 2, 2021 by Brunnsteinangel.2568

[Scoobaniec.9561]

7 hours ago, Parthenos Polias.5683 said:

 

And as you can see the OP, the caster/Togo way of the Ritualist has energy management mechanisms.
So, this is the only GW2 profession which can handle that.

How so? Nothing stops Anet from releasing another elite spec with energy management. In fact its already happened with druid. Or a slight rework to adrenaline or life force on necro also works.

When u guys will get that Kalla is basically a ritualist espec and that rev is a modified on tren warrior with extra magic flavour added to his attacks?

[Buran.3796]

7 hours ago, Parthenos Polias.5683 said:

Is it enough to prove how Revenants and Ritualists are bound through the way they use Mists and Energy ?
So the called "mostly brutal physical attacks" look more "spell like" ones, isn't it ?

And, by the way, the Revenant is "equipped with the otherworldly powers of the Mists" (official site) and for the Ritualist, "The energy they channel drives Ritualist skills which wreak havoc on an enemy's health" (official manuscript).
Is it enough similarities for you ? Are the Ritualist enough brutal and powerfull for you ?

Second, the "heavy armor class" already got a healing spe. So, he can get a casting spe.
About your "semi-naked spellcaster"...
What do you think about the semi-naked centaur ?

Third, Mesmer is all about trickery.
Clone trickery, Phantasm trickery, Time trickery, Mirage trickery.
Ritualist is nothing about trickery.

1) Seems like you're comparing a mist elementalist vs a mist conjurer/summoner, and they sound very different in how they interact with the mist, the same as an Elementalist and a Necromancer use the magic in totally different ways.

2) RPGs are full of plate armor dudes with healing abilities, as  clerics, paladins and -surprise- guardians. Summoners in heavy armor are way more scarce in the RPG lore.

3) I  think nothing about Ventari because I don't use it and I don't feel obliged to pretend that He exists.  The mechanics of that legend are arguably bad and cluncky, and doesn't even have basic things like a stunbreak. My  goal in the game is to have fun, not frustration, so I ignore Ventari. And seems that this viewpoint is shared by a majority of Revenant players which don't associate this class with the bringer of letucces.

4) Fine point, so give the Ritualist spect to another spellcasting class which could appreciate their Wraithmancer abilities. As a main Rev which doesn't like/use neither Ventari or Kalla I don't have any appeal for having a third legend invoking minions.

[Brunnsteinangel.2568]

24 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

 

3) I  think nothing about Ventari because I don't use it and I don't feel obliged to pretend that He exists.  The mechanics of that legend are arguably bad and cluncky, and doesn't even have basic things like a stunbreak. My  goal in the game is to have fun, not frustration, so I ignore Ventari. And seems that this viewpoint is shared by a majority of Revenant players which don't associate this class with the bringer of letucces.

 

Just want to say: I do like this legend, cuase it is so "different" than anythign else we have.

Yes, it is "clunky" but once you get around it, it is so kitten strong!

[draxynnic.3719]

16 hours ago, Parthenos Polias.5683 said:

 
And this reply is way more explicit than the previous ones and your "already had a spirit spammer elite specialisation". Thank you for that.

I also appreciate than you react about the OP skills rather than to the ritualist side.

Nothing there was anything I hadn't already thought, I just didn't think it was worth going into the details when there were so many problems just with the broad concept.

16 hours ago, Parthenos Polias.5683 said:

As i see your "basically" and "hardly seems all that different" just give more credits to the OP.
One of the purpose of the OP was to show how a Togo specialisation fits with actual GW2 gameplay, and won't be a fantasy thing totally broken, OP, unrealistic.

It's realistic because you can compare it to the actual skills from GW2.
I do agree than some skills need to be more balanced and some numerics to be raised or lowered.

It's too similar. Even putting aside the philosophical question of whether revenant is the right place for ritualist, anyone who actually plays revenant should be looking at this and asking "what does this actually add?" It's Jalis with the potentially high impact taunt, stability, and RotGD replaced with energy management and a couple of low-impact ranged attack skills that should probably be weapon skills rather than legend skills.

16 hours ago, Parthenos Polias.5683 said:

Revenant got a long range hammer and an melee range staff.
So can we really talk about "a spellcasting weapon" when the Revenant is concerned ?

Yes. Hammer is already something of a spellcasting implement, similar to mesmer greatsword. If you're really trying to push a spellcasting theme, the weapon being melee-oriented and then incorporating a couple of ranged pokes onto the legend is not the way to do it. Legend skills are where you're supposed to burn off large amounts of energy to create something that has a high impact.

16 hours ago, Parthenos Polias.5683 said:

So your whole point about : Kalla is a "ritualist-like aspect" is giving more credits to the Revenant being the profession to implemant a channeling spe.
Just using your own analyse.

Completely missing the point. Renegade is an elite specialisation, and therefore none of its stuff can be mixed with any future elite specialisation. And revenant has nothing ritualist-like in core except arguably Ventari's tablet.

 

Necromancer, ranger, and guardian all have ritualist-like aspects in core, which could therefore be combined with an elite specialisation to create something that feels more like a ritualist than anything that needs to rely on the elite specialisation alone.

16 hours ago, Parthenos Polias.5683 said:

Is it enough to prove how Revenants and Ritualists are bound through the way they use Mists and Energy ?
So the called "mostly brutal physical attacks" look more "spell like" ones, isn't it ?

And, by the way, the Revenant is "equipped with the otherworldly powers of the Mists" (official site) and for the Ritualist, "The energy they channel drives Ritualist skills which wreak havoc on an enemy's health" (official manuscript).
Is it enough similarities for you ? Are the Ritualist enough brutal and powerfull for you ?

It's been a recognised point throughout the discussion that there are some fluff-based similarities. However, the mechanics of revenant make it a poor fit for ritualist.

16 hours ago, Parthenos Polias.5683 said:

He was more than "a good guy".
He was "key to several Canthan military victories"
He was "a Ritualist of uncanny ability"

Every generation is going to have a few people who are near the peak of their profession in their generation, and who are successful military leaders (assuming there are military conflicts during their time). They don't all get to be legends. If Turai freaking Ossa doesn't get to be a legend (and we were told back when Stronghold was being discussed that this is why he's a Stronghold hero rather than a revenant legend - because he wasn't quite impactful enough to be a legend), then I don't think Togo's achievements make the cut. He was a good fighter, a decent diplomat, a reasonably successful military leader, and he helped take down the major villain of his time. That still puts him at or below Turai's level. He certainly didn't have the impact that even Kalla had, and she's probably the least impactful of the revenant legends except possibly Mallyx (and that's mostly because we don't know what Mallyx did to get to his position).

[draxynnic.3719]

10 hours ago, Parthenos Polias.5683 said:

Or not...
Only Ritualist got max energy modifiers skills.

Number of energy-related skills by profession  ---   ratio (prof/assassin)
Assassin  : 9  --- 1
Paragon  : 9  --- 1
Dervish  : 10  --- 1.1
Monk  : 12  --- 1.3
Warrior : 13  --- 1.4
Ranger : 15  --- 1.7
Necromancer : 18  --- 2
Ritualist : 21  --- 2.3
Elementalist : 24  --- 2.7
Mesmer : 48  --- 5.3

You've just stumbled on a point I was going to make against you. Of the GW1 professions, the one that really made use of energy was mesmer, whether it was stealing energy, burning the enemy's energy, or managing its own.

 

Comparatively, ritualist had a pretty typical amount of energy management. Maybe even on the lower end, when you consider that assassin, paragon, dervish, ranger, necromancer, and elementalist all had energy management boiled into their primary attribute. That just leaves warrior (relies more on adrenaline) and monk (a balance consideration - monks were supposed to run out of energy eventually if pressured enough. Note that there's also relatively little energy management available to Restoration/SP ritualists).

 

Ritualist was not an energy management-oriented profession - it's pretty much at the median for light armour professions, in fact. If any profession really needed energy for its theme, it was mesmer... and you'll note that GW2 mesmer doesn't have energy. I'd say that the wide range of possible builds that ritualist could have was a far more important aspect... and that's why I think it would be a better fit for, well, basically any profession except revenant, really, but particularly professions I've already mentioned that have some thematic similarities in core. Revenant, with its utility skills coming in groups of five as a package, is if anything the opposite of the ritualist's wide array of possible ways you could build it.

 

The main reason revenant has energy at all, in fact, is probably so that there's a resource for upkeep skills and low-recharge legend skills to be limited by.

[The Boz.2038]

Ritualist was energy management oriented in GW1 because of the bundle mechanics, allowing you to hide your weaponset energy from your enemies until you're ready to use it, then yoink it away again. Energy hiding was big in GW1.

[draxynnic.3719]

27 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Ritualist was energy management oriented in GW1 because of the bundle mechanics, allowing you to hide your weaponset energy from your enemies until you're ready to use it, then yoink it away again. Energy hiding was big in GW1.

Anyone could do that by having a set with a shield and no energy bonuses, giving you a small boost in armour rating as well.

[GrayHawk.7560]

29 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Ritualist was energy management oriented in GW1 because of the bundle mechanics, allowing you to hide your weaponset energy from your enemies until you're ready to use it, then yoink it away again. Energy hiding was big in GW1.

A bundle elite for Revenant would be awful.  5 bundle utilities?  That would be like a full kit engie with less skills and no toolbelt ... no thanks.  The only way that that could remotely work is if our F2 or F skills become bundles that augment the rest of the utilities.

 

The whole bundle mechanic also doesn't work with GW2's more dynamic gameplay.

[The Boz.2038]

Not advocating for bundles, just saying how and why it worked in gee dubs.

[RabbitUp.8294]

4 hours ago, GrayHawk.7560 said:

A bundle elite for Revenant would be awful.  5 bundle utilities?  That would be like a full kit engie with less skills and no toolbelt ... no thanks.  The only way that that could remotely work is if our F2 or F skills become bundles that augment the rest of the utilities.

 

The whole bundle mechanic also doesn't work with GW2's more dynamic gameplay.

Less skills? Rev would have the legend swap instead of toolbelt, and a weapon swap. It would be clunky and not something I would like to see personally, but it would also be kinda broken due to the amount of skills alone.

[GrayHawk.7560]

5 hours ago, RabbitUp.8294 said:

Less skills? Rev would have the legend swap instead of toolbelt, and a weapon swap. It would be clunky and not something I would like to see personally, but it would also be kinda broken due to the amount of skills alone.

Less skills as in kits replace your weapon skills with kit skills, bundles didn't work like that.  I meant less skills compared to engie kits not Rev's in general.

[RabbitUp.8294]

3 minutes ago, GrayHawk.7560 said:

Less skills as in kits replace your weapon skills with kit skills, bundles didn't work like that.  I meant less skills compared to engie kits not Rev's in general.

When you say bundle, you specifically refer to ashes? They would never make bundles in gw2 that just remove your weapon skills without replacing them with new skills.

[GrayHawk.7560]

1 hour ago, RabbitUp.8294 said:

When you say bundle, you specifically refer to ashes? They would never make bundles in gw2 that just remove your weapon skills without replacing them with new skills.

Yep.  I agree, like u said it would be awful.