Zerg build ideas for beta specs

[Grand Marshal.4098]

I know it's too early, but I enjoy theorycrafting stuff. So I wanted to ask you what role and build do you think the especs could probably fill in WvW. For a zerg comp. 

 

So far my ideas (that I have yet to fully test) are a Boonshare Harbinger (obviously) aiming at replacing a Scourge (scepter, dagger and staff) at boon strip and possibly a Herald in boonsupport. I don't see harbinger being a solid enough option to replace Scourge's barrier tho so maybe 1 or 2 per squad would be ideal. 

 

For virtuoso, their AoE immob can be used strategically in spikes and with the added role of boonstrip coming from chrono, perhaps a more dps oriented mesmer can make it into the comps. Standard sword (maybe dagger) focus and GS setup to spike targets. Again I don't see any great potential here over a chrono support or even a Boonshare Mirage, but it's a spec maybe in the same boat as the latter. Maybe 1 per squad is pushing it xd

 

As for Willbender, I actually had some fun ideas about a bursty interrupt WB with JI and Hammer GS, porting inside the enemy group with hammer 5 and unleashing their burst through virtue 1 and 3 until the ally zerg has pushed through. Akin to what many dps core guards did back in the day. I don't see dual sword being remotely viable in zerging. Again, I don't see more than 2 or max 3 of those making it into a squad. They are basically more melee focused Dragonhunters for zerging and instead leaving traps for the enemy to step on, they charge the enemy and kite away after creating some panic. 

 

Just some random fun ideas I had. Any suggestions on how these specs can make it into zergs? It's too early to say for sure ofc, but speculation is always fun!

Edited August 20, 2021 by Grand Marshal.4098

[Dawdler.8521]

Zergs with harbingers would pretty much run around with perma quickness in addition to all other boons.

 

Nothing is for certain but it might be the new meta once people adjust to less standoffs and more stealth one pushing with quickness.

 

Because thats what we all want. More AoE boons. Funniest case would be if they also shift to condi over power, so we have zerg condi meta.

 

I am salivating at the thought. The rants on the forums would be so glorious.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

3 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Zergs with harbingers would pretty much run around with perma quickness in addition to all other boons.

 

Nothing is for certain but it might be the new meta once people adjust to less standoffs and more stealth one pushing with quickness.

 

Because thats what we all want. More AoE boons. Funniest case would be if they also shift to condi over power, so we have zerg condi meta.

 

I am salivating at the thought. The rants on the forums would be so glorious.

So far I'd still choose a quickness scrapper over a harbinger though. I mean the utility is there and I know how to play scrapper to not require stronger barriers for myself and instead I prefer to commit to the overall party comp. 

 

Although that harbinger elite is probably the leaving-outside-enemy-WoD button for a massive boost post enemy strips and it can def be a game changer. The fact that it gives 5 stab makes it too kitten strong already!

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

i think harbinger would be rather an adding than replacement to scrouge. the barriers help its survival, and scourge likely still corrupts way better. the boonloads are very short duration on harbinger, but they can help bridge at times where firebrands have not stab left up

 

virtuoso is a slow specs, but might be useful once people learn to place its aoes correctly. currently it feels weaker than herald while doing a similar job overall. the F2 herald echoing boons is simply pretty strong. also dwarf road stab speaks for herald in that comparison (tho u can run mantra on virtuoso, still only 2 man stab)

 

current testing isn't finalized. these few days most people only played meme builds simply.

 

overall, harbinger performs better than virtuoso i feel.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

52 minutes ago, kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

(tho u can run mantra on virtuoso, still only 2 man stab)

huh? stab mantra for mesmer is 5 man 360 radius. the cooldown is 45s tho.

[Dawdler.8521]

1 hour ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

So far I'd still choose a quickness scrapper over a harbinger though. I mean the utility is there and I know how to play scrapper to not require stronger barriers for myself and instead I prefer to commit to the overall party comp. 

 

Although that harbinger elite is probably the leaving-outside-enemy-WoD button for a massive boost post enemy strips and it can def be a game changer. The fact that it gives 5 stab makes it too kitten strong already!

Scrapper dont add enough bomb damage though. Maybe we'll see a red carpet of death era with 50-70% necros again lol. 

 

But I guess we'll find out next year. Maybe it wont be any difference at all. 

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

1 hour ago, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

huh? stab mantra for mesmer is 5 man 360 radius. the cooldown is 45s tho.

u sure about that, i gotta check again, but it for some reason thought it as target cap 2. well, it has two charges anyways, so the cd isn't that crazy. i run mantra heal and stabmantra for immediate cast mainly.

i'm by far no mesmer main, but i could get some nice numbers with virtuoso yet. while i am not sure if it should be played on its boonrip option or pure damage, as i don't feel that it can do both. additionally, the skilltree uses a lot of wording about "illusions", but runs obviously floaty daggers in its newest specs. bit confusing.

 

overall, the slight delays are a problem on this mesmers' attacks. it seems to lack a bit of dmg in the end - while i got several times solid dps yet.

 

___
about scrapper, just dont play dmg scrapper thanks. waste of everything, it's so far more value having it as healer/cleanse and superspeed provider. scrapper barriers aren't that useful anymore.

Edited August 20, 2021 by kamikharzeeh.8016

[korasukage.9315]

My one wish is to see a condition, boonshare, corrupting harbinger! The other especs might have a place in a niche situation as pointed out above, there could be some potential. Cannot wait to see what the other especs have to offer. 🙂

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

condition builds are useless in wvw... so no

 

i'm sure u can play it condi, but that's not for this mode...

[ArchonWing.9480]

Harbringer probably can't replace scourge, but the quickness can be very useful in conjunction with scrappers (and maybe firebrands). They will also have pretty high burst thanks to https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Wicked_Corruption but won't have the constant pressure that Scourge provide. The elite and bursts will go pretty easily together but Elixirs as is aren't that great as a whole and you're still better off keeping those wells.

 

It will most likely just be the same power curses that scourge has but adapted for Harbinger. While I would certainly love for some kind of meme blood build, Scourge probably does that better.

 

Willbender.... just bring a warrior. Guardian already has too many busted specs.

 

Virtuoso, seems to do good damage and also bring the utility of what a mesmer can bring normally. Nobody was using projectile hate though when I was testing sooo.., I think people that are too bored of Minstrel Chrono will go to this.

Edited August 21, 2021 by ArchonWing.9480

[Grand Marshal.4098]

4 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

 

 

Willbender.... just bring a warrior. Guardian already has too many busted specs.

 

 

On the contrary. As a warrior main it pains me to say it, but I was trying willbender for hours in zerging last night and it was very good. 

 

I theorycrafted a Valor, Virtues WB with GS and Hammer, meditations and courage trait. JI, Contemplation and Merciful Intervention. Renewed focus and block heal. You burst into the enemy zerg with JI hammer 5 and hammer 2. Hammer 3 to immob, swap GS and burst. Justice can be used preemptively for extra burst, I use resolve to kite towards my peeps or further into the enemy, pop courage and start dealing another burst and use Merciful intervention to port back. Renewed focus and heal are usually off CD and I can safely kite back. 

 

I played with a mix of cavalier and knight or sentinel for toughness and power precision ferocity with the boon uptime trait, the resistance port trait and the can't be downed trait from WB. 

 

Very fun, very quick, exactly how a hammer warrior could play if not for the 0 dmg... 

[ArchonWing.9480]

9 hours ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

On the contrary. As a warrior main it pains me to say it, but I was trying willbender for hours in zerging last night and it was very good. 

 

I theorycrafted a Valor, Virtues WB with GS and Hammer, meditations and courage trait. JI, Contemplation and Merciful Intervention. Renewed focus and block heal. You burst into the enemy zerg with JI hammer 5 and hammer 2. Hammer 3 to immob, swap GS and burst. Justice can be used preemptively for extra burst, I use resolve to kite towards my peeps or further into the enemy, pop courage and start dealing another burst and use Merciful intervention to port back. Renewed focus and heal are usually off CD and I can safely kite back. 

 

I played with a mix of cavalier and knight or sentinel for toughness and power precision ferocity with the boon uptime trait, the resistance port trait and the can't be downed trait from WB. 

 

Very fun, very quick, exactly how a hammer warrior could play if not for the 0 dmg... 

Ehh, I guess, but we take warrior mostly for the strips. As for a damage Guardian that doesn't really support, I'm a bit skeptical since we can already just take a DH and deal a lot of damage quickly without much risk, but we'll see.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

5 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Ehh, I guess, but we take warrior mostly for the strips. As for a damage Guardian that doesn't really support, I'm a bit skeptical since we can already just take a DH and deal a lot of damage quickly without much risk, but we'll see.

Yeah... That's what pains me as a warrior.. That we are reduced to bubble bots and everyone is skeptical when a core Phalanx warrior, a banner Zerker or whatever else build joins a squad... Roles that belonged to the warrior and are now unviable or subpar for many.. 

 

Also, the Willbender build I tried most def keeps up with Dragonhunter and actually surpasses it in prolonged ranged combat with its huge mobility via shadowsteps. Only a condi firebrand in an open tag outdid me. 

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

finally could test virtuoso and harbinger in more serious scenarios , structured blob vs blob fights. virtuoso is pretty much useless. it's nice to cloud, but it has too much delay in any dmg move, and the shatters are too risky to randomly shoot around as they are reflectable. the aoe swordrain has pretty bad damage and a very obvious circle before it starts casting. it's pretty hard to hit it well

 

the elite doesn't feel like the 1200 range that it says it has. to get all out of it, u need to be very close to the enemy. looks good dmg on the paper, but not very well afterall

___

 

on the other hand, harbinger can definitely perform. i don't like that shroud  skill 3 targets. and overall, it should have more damage for the squishiness that u load urself up with during blight stacking. i managed to get surprisingly solid strips with it, while it still doesn't perform similar to scourge. like, u can outstrip the weaker 3 scourges of a blob, and u provide extra boons and cc support, have mobility to reposition and focus stuff, also stronger wells.

still, it's extremly hectic under pressure.

like, it misses something with barrier, since every single other necro has a 2nd health bar or a ton of barrier.

[Za Shaloc.3908]

I have played Virtuoso in WvW quite a bit but did not touch the others so can only comment on Virt. IMO the biggest potential I see is the synergy with Shattered Concentration providing really strong boonrip, combined with high concentrated spike damage. F1 and F2 both remove 1 boon per blade, and even the F4 removes per pulse (albeit PBAoE). However, that simply can't happen at the moment due to almost the entire e-spec being subjected to projectiles.

[ArchonWing.9480]

On 8/21/2021 at 11:11 AM, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

Yeah... That's what pains me as a warrior.. That we are reduced to bubble bots and everyone is skeptical when a core Phalanx warrior, a banner Zerker or whatever else build joins a squad... Roles that belonged to the warrior and are now unviable or subpar for many.. 

 

Well, they should probably unnerf hammer. But I doubt that's the first time you've heard that.

[displayname.8315]

9 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Well, they should probably unnerf hammer. But I doubt that's the first time you've heard that.

The lockdown warriors of old used hammer for stuns and greatswords for the burst I thought.  You can still stun, 1 1 1, knockdown, 111, stun, 111. 

 

The synergy is still there with the sigils of paralization and impact.  I've seen some warrior wrecking people with some sort of stun build.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

11 minutes ago, displayname.8315 said:

The lockdown warriors of old used hammer for stuns and greatswords for the burst I thought.  You can still stun, 1 1 1, knockdown, 111, stun, 111. 

 

The synergy is still there with the sigils of paralization and impact.  I've seen some warrior wrecking people with some sort of stun build.

Doable in small scale. 

 

Impossible in zerging. Or actually, extremely difficult and low gain build for the open field fights. Only thing making weapons like hammer and Mace viable is the fact that spellbreaker can strip on CC. If that didn't exist and the alternative to strips was: strip a Boon based on adrenaline used in burst, Hammer would be in the trash even lower than now. 

[displayname.8315]

5 hours ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

Impossible in zerging

Oh idk I play around with hammer warriors in zergs.  They have a heal shield like rev after all..  not as easy to work through your sustains like a guard.. getting a good flow of full counters, dodges, and utility is necessary.  Lotta fun IMO.

[schokelmei.8271]

They could finally touch scrapper to make condi worth playing again and Scrapper seriously needs more nerfs anyway.