Domain of Istan - Mass AFK Farm - Rising Issue

[Jaffa.1845]

Domain of Istan has always had an issue with AFK Farmers in the Modri Caverns. Killing Ibogas with Minion Necros, Mallyx Revs and Turret Engis. While Turret Engis require player interaction (or macro) every 5 minutes to reset timers. Necros and Revs and simply set 1 skill to auto cast (Gs4 for necro, Mallyx elite for Rev) and stay AFK indefinitely. 

With the most recent story replay of Istan given out to all accounts for free. There has been a huge influx of Alt accounts and bots to the Modri Caves to AFK Farm Ibogas and Spiders. By AFKing in this area. I've seen players with as many as 7 Alt accounts (all similar acc name) spread around the caverns and across different maps. If untouched, this 1 player alone is harvesting upwards of 14,000 volatile magic every hour from all their accounts. Equal to 56 Trophy Shipments/hr. An enormous profit. If running all day, that's 1,048g. 7.3k/week

These players can get upwards of 2k volatile magic, several thousand karma, along with Venom Sacs, Unidentified Gear and Crystalline Dust. Other rarer drops can also be obtained. The main issue here being the Volatile Magic, as large quantities of this generated by the AFKers are used to purchase Trophy Shipments. Resulting in massive profits from T6 and T5 materials. 

I have discovered ways to combat some of these AFKers. Giving AFK Revenants Might will cause their self torment to deal more damage than their passive heal can handle. Thus killing them over time. Perma Stealthing Core Necros/Scourges who aren't auto casting a skill will cause them to be kicked from the server for being AFK after 30-45 minutes.

Necros that are auto-casting skills such as GS4 can be countered by killing NPCs instantly as they spawn, with classes such as Deadeye. However this only negates their rewards for as long as you stay. This is because necro minions only attack after being attacked, thus killing the NPCs instantly will result in not kill tagging from the AFK necro. Sadly on the engineer front. There is nothing that can be done. Generally engineers are just semi-afk, which is ok. Only a minority of them appear to be using macros (noticeable if an iboga pulls them, and they continue to setup turrets).

Before posting this, I checked 6 maps and found a total of 63 players who are AFK (Auto Cast or Minion Necros/Revenants). Using the same estimated rewards as above, these AFK players are bringing in 504 Trophy Caches/hr combined. Equal to roughly 400g/hr while fully AFK for hours on end. 9.6k gold per day (24hr). This is not including the engineers.

Solutions to this problem, which I can think of are;
1: Making both skill activation AND movement required to avoid the map DC timer. Requiring players to do both to avoid being kicked after 30-45 minutes
2: Making skill auto-casting only work while in combat, such as Auto-attacks already. 
3: Giving minions a 5 or 10 minute despawn timer. Similar to engineers and their turrets. 

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

Honestly this sounds like a sales pitch more than anything.  May I inquire what the auto-revenant farm build is?  I can't quite figure it out from the description.  

[Vinceman.4572]

Stop playing the block warden or pretending to be the police.

 

Play the game and have fun otherwise your desire to login will decrease massively over time.

 

In addition I highly doubt the dimension of income you are describing in your post.

[Jaffa.1845]

Just now, Vinceman.4572 said:

Stop playing the block warden or pretending to be the police.

 

Play the game and have fun otherwise your desire to login will decrease massively over time.

 

In addition I highly doubt the dimension of income you are describing in your post.

Dont worry I have fun. Its quite entertaining. I just run around and see if there are any abusers who can be stopped when bored. 
The income described is entirely accurate. 6g/hr per player AFK stacks up over time. Here's the what 1 player got in just under 1 month. Fully AFK https://imgur.com/a/eMe3cRJ. Thats equal to 3.1k gold. Plus the 18 BLK drops which occur rarely, though frequent enough to warrant mentioning. (~1 per day)

[Vinceman.4572]

6g/hr - LOL

 

So, you still care. I ask: Why? Don't you have better things to do in the game, with your life?

Anet doesn't see a problem here, me neither because the player count doing this is quite low not so say a tiny tiny exception. And the ones that are using multiple accounts are an exception of an exception

 

OK: Let's be serious. The gold amount is so little you gain a lot more gold by playing the game. Those "afk farmers" were and still are no issue in this game - for nobody!

[Cyninja.2954]

15 minutes ago, Vinceman.4572 said:

6g/hr - LOL

 

So, you still care. I ask: Why? Don't you have better things to do in the game, with your life?

Anet doesn't see a problem here, me neither because the player count doing this is quite low not so say a tiny tiny exception. And the ones that are using multiple accounts are an exception of an exception

 

OK: Let's be serious. The gold amount is so little you gain a lot more gold by playing the game. Those "afk farmers" were and still are no issue in this game - for nobody!

 

Let's recalculate that 6g/hr for bots shall we?

 

10hr = 60g

24hr = 144g

10 days = 1,440g (about 1 T1 legendary)

 

1 month = 30 days = 3 legendary T1 weapons. How many players do you know that craft 3 legendary weapons per month? Oh and this is afk, not actually considering any involvement with the game.

 

Now we know that login rewards are already enticing and passive income. Let's assume a player has 6 accounts, 5 of which he runs bots on 24/7. That's 15 T1 legendary weapons in 1 month. So the entire armory worth of weapons for his main account.

 

Still sound cool?

 

 

Edited August 29, 2021 by Cyninja.2954

[T G.7496]

Their contribution to t6 mats supply on the TP perhaps helps reduce the cost of these by a tiny fraction which helps me in my legendary acquisition.

Apart from being an eyesore, which I grant they are, they're not really doing any harm to anybody. In fact, as you claim, they're providing you with enrichment.

Edited August 29, 2021 by TwoGhosts.6790

[Jaffa.1845]

6g/hr 24/7 or while you sleep is worth more than 50g/hr when you're busy and cant play during the day. It is a distinct unfair advantage. Thats 144g in a day per player. Most people cant play more than 2hr a day. 144g doing nothing, or 100g farming properly but you cant do the things you want to do. 
Anet do have a problem with it, its directly against their ToS, they do ban people for it, they just dont have the resources, and the huge influx with the most recent current events release has made that even harder for them to control. 
The gain is little, yes, but its not bound by effort, time or ability.

Are you defending people breaking the ToS?

[Vinceman.4572]

Cy, I always appreciated your posts in this forum - for years. But we both now that this calculation is highly theoretically. And we both now that people trying to be rich in this game are using way more effective things than this which obligates you to run your pc 24/7 and definitely not in idle mode when using several accounts = high personal costs. It would be far better to work at MCD and buy gems to convert them to gold.

 

Edited August 29, 2021 by Vinceman.4572

[Cyninja.2954]

3 minutes ago, Vinceman.4572 said:

Cy, I always appreciated your posts in this forum - for years. But we both now that this calculation is highly theoretically. And we both now that people trying to be rich in this game are using way more effective things than this which obligates you to run your pc 24/7 and definitely not in idle mode when using several accounts.

 

 

Oh to get rich in this game all it takes is: 40 or so alt accounts which you log through (10 accounts will do too, still 600g or so per month). Way less risky than bots. Not that I agree with this approach myself, but at least it does not break ToS atm.

 

Both cases though have an effect on the game and the reward structure.

 

Now how much that effect is, only the developers know. My personal hope is it is so minor that they are ignoring it.

 

The main problem I see here is:

it is very difficult to distinguish between players who are not that active, just letting their main account "farm" somewhere (which I personally take 0 issue with), and bot farms.

Edited August 29, 2021 by Cyninja.2954

[Vinceman.4572]

3 minutes ago, Jaffa.1845 said:

Anet do have a problem with it, its directly against their ToS, they do ban people for it, they just dont have the resources, and the huge influx with the most recent current events release has made that even harder for them to control. 
The gain is little, yes, but its not bound by effort, time or ability.

Are you defending people breaking the ToS?

That's not correct. Anet has set up rules properly and often commented on afk-farmers. In the past they were surveilling reports and send GMs to check if ppl are afk. It was explained in these forums - several times. 

You are making this "problem" as if it would be a major issue in this game. This is not the fact. 

In addition you have no proof that Anet doesn't have the time for this at the moment due to the expac. That's your personal construction but no valid statement.

[T G.7496]

3 minutes ago, Jaffa.1845 said:

It is a distinct unfair advantage.

I just never understand this mentality.

First of all, it's not unfair at all when you can also choose to do exactly the same thing. I presume you choose not to because you prefer to play the game in other ways, as do 99.9% of players.

Secondly, I really struggle with the notion of 'advantage'. Really, what are we talking about here, some gold? Whoopie doo. Fill yer boots. I tell you, I would much, much, much rather Anet spent time dealing with bots and hackers in actual competitive game modes.

[Jaffa.1845]

•  

  2 minutes ago, Vinceman.4572 said:

  In the past they were surveilling reports and send GMs to check if ppl are afk

  You do notice the contradiction right? 
  They check if people are AFK because AFK farming is against ToS. If not found to be fully AFK, then its ok. But if they are AFK, which in this case. The majority of Necro/Rev AFK Farmers are. They get a 2 week (?) suspension. Its not that the AFK farming is ok, its that they sometimes check people to make sure they arent AFK farming. 
   

   

  11 minutes ago, Vinceman.4572 said:

  people trying to be rich in this game are using way more effective things than this which obligates you to run your pc 24/7

  You may be surprised to know that many barons have several alt accounts parked here almost 24/7. In a sense, there is no way more effective than this, as 1 player can stack this to an infinite degree, unlike any other way of making money. 
  If I did this on 10 accounts. Within 1 night, I would have made more than Any other method of making money grinded for days. I want a legendary? Boom 1.5 days fully AFK. 

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

How dare they lower my T5/T6 mats costs so it doesn't cost me 500g just for a few Gifts. Its unthinkable.

Edited August 29, 2021 by Hannelore.8153

[Jaffa.1845]

1 minute ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

How dare they lower my T5/T6 mats costs so it doesn't cost me 500g just for a few Gifts. Its unthinkable.

 

Remember how Drizzlewood also "destroyed' the econemy?

At least you actually had to be at your computer for drizzlewood. 

[Cyninja.2954]

5 minutes ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

How dare they lower my T5/T6 mats costs so it doesn't cost me 500g just for a few Gifts. Its unthinkable.

 

Assuming that the economy is only affected to benefit players....

 

What about players who are selling their T5/T6 materials? In this case not you.

 

What about changes to reward structures of the game in case bots DO have an effect? Maybe you wouldn't need as many T5/T6 materials if they were more expensive or not boted as much?

 

I always find this shortsighted notion some player have fascinating. If bots DO have an effect on the economy, it is highly probably that this is NOT in favor of other players (and rewards are balance around it out of necessity), given wealth generation happens outside of regular player ability. If bots do NOT have an effect, it matters not.

 

What never is the case is that the average player base benefits if we assume the average player base does not afk farm.

Edited August 29, 2021 by Cyninja.2954

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

6 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

 

Assuming that the economy is only affected to benefit players....

 

What about players who are selling their T5/T6 materials? In this case not you.

 

What about changes to reward structures of the game in case bots DO have an effect? Maybe you wouldn't need as many T5/T6 materials if they were more expensive or not boted as much?

 

I always find this shortsighted notion some player have fascinating. If bots DO have an effect on the economy, it is highly probably that this is NOT in favor of other players (and rewards are balance around it out of necessity), given wealth generation happens outside of regular player ability. If bots do NOT have an effect, it matters not.

 

What never is the case is that the average player base benefits if we assume the average player base does not afk farm.

So the thousands of hoarders who have pushed inflation sky-high in the time since the game's release, going from everything in the game costing mere silvers to up to hundreds of gold, has nothing to do with it?

 

So its not the guy with 50k Hardened Leather, Mystic Coin, Quartz Crystal, etc. Its the bots.

 

I've been down this road for many years, I've never once seen bots affect the econemy whatsoever compared to players who just have alot of gold and items and use those to influence the econemy in their favor. If anything, the fact that bots sell and keep gold in circulation instead of hoarding already makes them more beneficial.

 

And even if you took all that away, you'd still have liquid gold generation from dailies, Fractals, etc.

[Vinceman.4572]

21 minutes ago, Jaffa.1845 said:

•  

  You do notice the contradiction right? 
  They check if people are AFK because AFK farming is against ToS. If not found to be fully AFK, then its ok. But if they are AFK, which in this case. The majority of Necro/Rev AFK Farmers are. They get a 2 week (?) suspension. Its not that the AFK farming is ok, its that they sometimes check people to make sure they arent AFK farming. 
   

   

  You may be surprised to know that many barons have several alt accounts parked here almost 24/7. In a sense, there is no way more effective than this, as 1 player can stack this to an infinite degree, unlike any other way of making money. 
  If I did this on 10 accounts. Within 1 night, I would have made more than Any other method of making money grinded for days. I want a legendary? Boom 1.5 days fully AFK. 

1. There is no contradiction for me. They check IF people are completely afk using scripts or bots because you find those in EVERY fricking online game. So, they DO something against it. I would be disappointed if they don't. And the other thing is no point because if you do such things more often you won't get a 2 week ban only. Bots also get their account permabanned.

 

2. You may be surprised to know that most of the barons are tp barons and thus the richest players in GW2 with the use of external web pages for their business. 

Even though you find the claimed method unfair or an advantage for other players I would call it stupid to waste electricity costs for an online game that big.

[Cyninja.2954]

11 minutes ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

So the thousands of hoarders who have pushed inflation sky-high in the time since the game's release, going from everything in the game costing mere silvers to up to hundreds of gold, has nothing to do with it?

 

So its not the guy with 50k Hardened Leather, Mystic Coin, Quartz Crystal, etc. Its the bots.

 

I've been down this road for many years, I've never once seen bots affect the econemy whatsoever compared to players who just have alot of gold and items and use those to influence the econemy in their favor. If anything, the fact that bots sell and keep gold in circulation instead of hoarding already makes them more beneficial.

 

And even if you took all that away, you'd still have liquid gold generation from dailies, Fractals, etc.

 

True, which is why I gave 2 options: it affects the economy, or it does not.

 

It might very well be that bots have no effect on the economy. In which case your claim that they reduce T5/T6 prices is nonsense. Highly probably given the size of this games economy.

 

The moment they do affect the economy though, your entire summary of things up there are irrelevant because 2 wrongs do not make a right.

 

What I disagreed with was your cherry picking claim that this has a net positive effect on not boting players. Which it has not.

Edited August 29, 2021 by Cyninja.2954

[shrew.3059]

The indifference to AFK farming is so strange.

 

1. The game economy is presumably balanced around certain numbers, if those numbers fall out of scope, things start getting unpredictable.

 

2. It doesn’t matter whether it is efficient in hourly terms versus playing the game or playing the TP. The fact is that both those require engagement or dedication. AFK farming requires no effort, so it can be done indefinitely, which changes the calculation.

 

3. Although many seem not to care, there is the matter of fairness. AFK farming is certainly not intended and if most people did it, the game would be unplayable. I find it hard to process the argument that it’s “just another way to play”; it’s the equivalent of cheating on your taxes.

 

One solution could be that in known areas, ANet implements a timer/counter that spawns a mob to disrupt farming. Diminishing returns on certain mobs could also work.

[Gorem.8104]

I can't really see how other people having more gold then you somehow gives them an advantage or edge over you, when full legend gear, is the exact same as full asc, which you can get in a day of playing at max level if you know what you are doing. 

 

If anything, them putting more T6 mats up to sell helps everyone out, as it reduces prices for everyone, if you are actually making legends you want cheaper ways to make em' and T6 mats are one of the most expensive parts. 

[Gorem.8104]

1 hour ago, shrew.3059 said:

The indifference to AFK farming is so strange.

 

1. The game economy is presumably balanced around certain numbers, if those numbers fall out of scope, things start getting unpredictable.

 

2. It doesn’t matter whether it is efficient in hourly terms versus playing the game or playing the TP. The fact is that both those require engagement or dedication. AFK farming requires no effort, so it can be done indefinitely, which changes the calculation.

 

3. Although many seem not to care, there is the matter of fairness. AFK farming is certainly not intended and if most people did it, the game would be unplayable. I find it hard to process the argument that it’s “just another way to play”; it’s the equivalent of cheating on your taxes.

 

One solution could be that in known areas, ANet implements a timer/counter that spawns a mob to disrupt farming. Diminishing returns on certain mobs could also work.

According to the wiki, the game already has DR that does reduce loot drops and quality

[shrew.3059]

43 minutes ago, Gorem.8104 said:

I can't really see how other people having more gold then you somehow gives them an advantage or edge over you, when full legend gear, is the exact same as full asc, which you can get in a day of playing at max level if you know what you are doing. 

 

If anything, them putting more T6 mats up to sell helps everyone out, as it reduces prices for everyone, if you are actually making legends you want cheaper ways to make em' and T6 mats are one of the most expensive parts. 

 

It’s less about having an advantage over me, and more about the health of the economy. It’s entirely possible this has no-to-low effect on the economy, and is just personally enriching, at which point everyone is incentivised to do it since the benefits are obvious and the harms are few. AFK farming goes from a niche oddity to recommended strategy (assuming it’s easy enough to set up).

 

The key issue here is time investment. Farming an instance (e.g., CoF back in the day) at least requires effort, however minimal. AFK farming presumably requires zero effort, meaning that any time I’m not playing my character, I should be AFK farming to maximise its benefit. This normalises the practice leading the increasing numbers of farmers. Widespread AFK farming could have a negative impact on the economy and the community.

 

42 minutes ago, Gorem.8104 said:

According to the wiki, the game already has DR that does reduce loot drops and quality

 

I do not know the precise tuning of the DR, but perhaps it needs to be tweaked at higher timescales to avoid punishing active farming while punishing passive farming?

[Cyprien.4208]

I'm 100% for AFK farming why should I have to waste my time playing the game like a peasant. Why play hard when you can play smart. Sure, It lowers the sell value but that's time I don't have to waste killing random trash mobs and can go afk at a world boss! It's like why mine a node when it's quicker to farm the gold somewhere else and buy the supplies off the trading post.

I for one don't think you should be rewarded for doing nothing unlike the text above suggest as I don't believe anything posted above other then the fact yes it's useless to mine nodes. Sure, there are benefits to bots lowering the prices of matts but that also causes matts to be worthless in the long run. I'm not against farming you can farm while being active it's the farming that doesn't require anything which is the problem.  

Guild Wars has a ton of great maps you can farm in while being active and still can watch or listen to something on the side. Silver Waste, Dragon Stand, S4 Trains, etc... It's all great for that even champ trains back in the day require people to be active. It's when people aren't active I have a problem with it.

[Rogue.8235]

4 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Now how much that effect is, only the developers know. My personal hope is it is so minor that they are ignoring it.

 

52 minutes ago, shrew.3059 said:

It’s less about having an advantage over me, and more about the health of the economy. It’s entirely possible this has no-to-low effect on the economy, and is just personally enriching, at which point everyone is incentivised to do it since the benefits are obvious and the harms are few. AFK farming goes from a niche oddity to recommended strategy (assuming it’s easy enough to set up).

The key issue here is time investment. Farming an instance (e.g., CoF back in the day) at least requires effort, however minimal. AFK farming presumably requires zero effort, meaning that any time I’m not playing my character, I should be AFK farming to maximise its benefit. This normalises the practice leading the increasing numbers of farmers. Widespread AFK farming could have a negative impact on the economy and the community.

 

You underestimate the sheer number of players that play this game. A relatively small fraction of a percent of the players AFK farming will not lead to any measurable change in the commodities market.  The player base actively playing in the same map will definitely change it.

In addition, you underestimate the energy bill for running graphics-intensive processing for so long.  The cost far exceeds the benefit.  Unless you're able to live off-grid to which I say I'm jealous of ya.

There isn't any actionable econmic impact for these players AFK farming an area.  It seriously isn't a concern from that standpoint.

The peskiness, unsightliness,, etc. of AFK farming is definitely debatable.  You'll probably gain more traction staying clear of the economic impact and staying within the bounds of personal dislike and aesthetic impact.  

It would also be arguable if AFK farming was so egregious that you could not get any event participation or heart completion.  I have yet to see this actually happen.

 

My personal take is that it really doesn't matter.  It's high risk for such a trivial gain.  It's my opinion that the people who do this lack the cognitive ability to identify why AFK farming is just not worth it.

 

16 minutes ago, Cyprien.4208 said:

I for one don't think you should be rewarded for doing nothing unlike the text above suggest as I don't believe anything posted above other then the fact yes it's useless to mine nodes. Sure, there are benefits to bots lowering the prices of matts but that also causes matts to be worthless in the long run. I'm not against farming you can farm while being active it's the farming that doesn't require anything which is the problem.  

Guild Wars has a ton of great maps you can farm in while being active and still can watch or listen to something on the side. Silver Waste, Dragon Stand, S4 Trains, etc... It's all great for that even champ trains back in the day require people to be active. It's when people aren't active I have a problem with it.

It seems contradictory that you view AFK farming as rewarding but not node gathering.  If crafting materials aren't worth getting, then how could AFK farming be rewarding?

I agree that active gameplay should be condoned and AFK farming should be chastened for the reason that it is not in the spirit of the game.  It's not like Civilization VI where I click next turn then walk away to do stuff while the idiotic AI spends forever trying to figure out what to do, then denouncing me because "omg military on my borders" but seriously dude I'm moving my naval fleet past you to attack the very clearly threatening Shaka and Chandragupta  alliance that is very very clearly going to wreck us all if we don't do anything about it and seriously you're right there they'll hit you first don't you want me to move my military force to intercept any potential invasion of your empire but sure yeah denounce me that's cool your so dumb.

 

that was oddly specific.....