Can EoD introduce the concept or earning some mount skins in game?

[Rasimir.6239]

2 minutes ago, Hanako.1827 said:

The fact that you mention RPG's and something being locked behind a challenge as an intrinsically bad thing just displays a very unfortunate way of thinking that I only suspect a well-spoken, mobile gaming 13 year old to have. 

Interesting how quickly you dismiss arguments that don't go your way. For reference, I've been playing computer games since my late teens. I think my first rpg was the then brand-new Ultima IV on my dad's apple IIc sometime during the 1980s. I was however a bit older than 13 at that time, computer games weren't a thing that far back 😉 .

I've lost count of the number of rpgs, adventures, strategy games, and whatever else I've played, including a wide range of online games (starting with text-based muds in the late 80s/early 90s). Chasing rewards isn't the only goal in an rpg. In fact I would argue that that is more of a modern, mobile gaming thing than it used to be. Exploring worlds, solving puzzles, figuring out mechanics has been the base of rpgs long before the mindless grind for stats has surfaced as the be-all endgame of way too many of today's games.

And that's where this game has its strengths: making worlds to explore, give us things to figure out. It's not an endless, railroaded race for bigger numbers. It's an involved world that you are free to explore any way you like. And this is the reason why I, and many others I have met in game and on the forums, play this game: it has an emphasis on exploration and discovery, it gives me the feeling that I choose to play what I enjoy. It doesn't imbalance rewards depending on which map, which kind of content I choose to play.

 

GW2 rewards me for playing the game the way I enjoy it, unlike many of the other modern games that only reward me for playing the very narrow tunnel the developers have chosen.This game's main reward is enjoyment, and it's why I primarily play this game, instead of any of the other options, several of which have been tempting me but ultimately turned me off by forcing me into very narrow gameplay repetitions to get to the shinies I might like.

[Xanadrine.4352]

On 9/16/2021 at 2:50 AM, titje.2745 said:

I liked to fish for turtle and pets in other mmo. I hope eod have also mount skins or minis that can be caught by fishing. If not then I don’t know why I should fish. 
 

Or maybe a long quest chain that you have to fish up items (collection) to build a mount skin. 

That will be the day it snows in hades. As was pointed out by others they wont put mount skins in game for free lol

[Xanadrine.4352]

3 minutes ago, Hanako.1827 said:

Its something I've considered when responding to half the people here. They might genuinely not even be old enough to know the other option that existed. Given how unsound some of the points as to why people prefer the idea of earning something over a gemstore purchase and the dodging of some question I think that might be the case. 

Yep its always like this in life, the more time goes on the newer generations really dont know , they just blindly accept w/e as normal. Its sad because unless things change I can see my gaming era coming to an end as more and more things become paywalls microtransactions and loot boxes

[Hanako.1827]

27 minutes ago, Rasimir.6239 said:

Interesting how quickly you dismiss arguments that don't go your way.

Quote

"Your whole chain of argument in this thread builds on the assumption that players are motivated into playing by chasing rewards, and that rewards are the main (or even only) incentive that makes people play this came"

 

You literally altered my argument into saying its the main when I said its a vital component, imo a fundamental, but not a sole concept to be revolved around (arenanet agree btw because it literally funds itself off of selling this component instead of integrating it within gameplay so I don't really see how you can reject this absolutely undeniable truth to it being very important).

I believe it intertwines, so don't wax lyrical about how I'm apparently dismissing arguments when you're not even engaging mine in good faith. Also your point makes no sense whatsoever because games evolved to include these functions because they were much more engaging and gave extra value to those exploratory concepts of gameplay and world expo you just mentioned. This literally was the case up until the internet was integrated with gaming and those desires slowly were transitioned to be ones you purchase instead, some games try to find a balance which is fine, other games go way to hard on those rewards being store exclusive so they fail. Again you mention a chase like its a bad thing, people like earning things others don't have, stop being frightened at the idea of something potentially not being so easy to access, your mindset is what killed this game for a lot of people. The community will spout 17million strong yet realise barely any of those 17 million wanted to stick around because why? The games easy and streamlined af. 

How important are rewards? Some of MMO's most popular videos have been about the journey of getting a legendary or a mount, or a pvp rank, or a title. Again you don't live in reality if you believe specified reward incentives that require different attempts and adaptability to modes of gameplay are engaging for people who play games.

You're saying Im dismissing arguments but you understand your response is you going off on platitudes of "Oh exploring and playing the game is all I need" and claiming I want bigger numbers (despite my actual indifference towards GW2's progression system involving stats). You understand all the things your mentioning being tied with SOME reward incentive would make it only more accessible to some right? I like exploring the world for its game assets but it doesn't give me much reason to go back which is typically why collections are a good thing (which... who would have guess.... are a reward incentive). Again you said I'm being dismissive but you have avoided every other point in my response.

Is really calling a game better for letting you earn something in-game by having a dedicated mastery towards its multitude modes of gameplay really a point you struggle to comprehend? 

Can you just admit you want everything to be accessible and want no sense of challenge (in an MMORPG) to earn something?

 

Edited September 17, 2021 by Hanako.1827

[Rasimir.6239]

7 minutes ago, Hanako.1827 said:

Can you just admit you want everything to be accessible and want no sense of challenge (in an MMORPG) to earn something?

Please stop putting words in my mouth.

 

I'll try to put it plainly one more time: your are focussed on rewards you get from playing. I am focussed on enjoyable gameplay. I have found over the years that focus on rewards (in game design) is ultimately detrimental to my enjoyment of the game. I have chosen GW2 over similar games because it is the least reward focussed and the most gameplay focussed of the games I have tried.

[Dean Calaway.9718]

On 9/1/2021 at 4:54 PM, Hanako.1827 said:

I love the mounts in this game. I also love earning unique skin through unique challenges in other MMO's. I know a driving force of the gem store is selling mount skins through their but I find it very saddening that there aren't a handful of skins for each type of mount to earn in the game. I don't mind a majority of them being in the gem store I just want some decent looking skins to earn in the game so I can play it and have something to show off as a kind of achievement. Having a skin tied to a raid/ hard dungeon/ world collectible/ legendary collectible/ pvp rank/ rare drop would be such a delight to see.

I don't see why purchasable skins and earnable skins cannot co-exist and my one hope for Anet is they make an effort to give me something to earn in the game. I don't much care for collecting armours and weapons anymore since I have such a large variety but it really sucks that the only way to make my mount look cool is to spend an absurd amount of money or boringly convert gems to earn a mount that can't be distinguished from one achieved through specified gameplay efforts that aren't gold farming.. 

Your point is self defeating, you want skins tied to hard content or rare drops, but you don't wanna grind the Gold for Gems to get them...
What do you think you'd be doing if you had to earn X amount of a currency in a game mode to ultimately unlock a skin? What about relying on RNG? Grinding. At least with Gold to Gems you can grind anywhere, different place everyday, how is that worse than having to grind the same specific content for who knows how long till you get it? specially if it's RNG dependent?

Right now mount skins are around ~320 gold, that's Precursor money for something with a much greater visual impact.
As you've quite rightly mentioned, it's about driving the Gem store, the thing that ensures the game has no monthly subscription fee and allows you to get everything you want with Gold anyway.
Now, I myself cheekily proposed for the 10 year anniversary next year we should get an entire special mount collection to celebrate, but I know that will never happen, not when things like mail carriers, chairs and even finishers probably haven't seen as many sales as they other wise would have if not for the free Birthday versions of those.

[Dean Calaway.9718]

58 minutes ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

Yep its always like this in life, the more time goes on the newer generations really dont know , they just blindly accept w/e as normal. Its sad because unless things change I can see my gaming era coming to an end as more and more things become paywalls microtransactions and loot boxes

I'm not one least bit found of paywalls and microtransactions, but I can tell you go back far enough to the dawn of video games and you had plenty of guys saying "in my day we'd be playing football, riding bikes, swimming, doing wood working or soldering electronic kits for youths, unless something changes these video games will ruin everything."

Fast forward to today and more than half of millennials don't know how to deal with a trip breakers, or even own any tools.
They sure know how to spend all day looking at screens, so where do we call it stop? Look at the Amish and where they think technology was perfect, with not too much and not too little.

Times change, and we might not perceive them for the better, I for one think electric cars are an awful idea since they have a manufacturing environmental impact several times of a normal car with only a fraction of the life spam, about 10 years and the batteries are shot, in my country that costs 8,000 EUR to replace, that means in 50 years cars are only gonna be for rich or upper middle class people since they'll never be cheap enough for low income families to afford with their low life spam (read planned obsolescence) while right now a working normal car can be had for less than 1,000 EUR that is good enough to go to work, get the kids from school and go to the supermarket. Personal transport is a MASSIVE quality of life improvement, and ride apps aren't gonna fill that gap, so you can expect the quality of life to drop in the following decades as normal cars stop being manufactured and the existing ones are taxed to non existence, now, is that trend gonna change if people know that? No.

On the same coin, video games are a product, and if there is more money to be made in new ways, that is where the industry will drift to, you cannot blame companies from going that way, blame all the people that make it financially appealing for them to do so.

[Hanako.1827]

49 minutes ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

Your point is self defeating, you want skins tied to hard content or rare drops, but you don't wanna grind the Gold for Gems to get them...

Not a sound argument. Since one I never established a premise that I'm broke in gw2 to even afford a mount skin or that that's my issue, I have plenty of gold and don't care about farming, and two I HAD established (you just chose to ignore) why that isn't a satisfying alternative because it flatlines  the outcome of how a mount is achieved in contrast to say earning it via a specified accomplishment. If you're gonna try and use terms like "self-defeating" but not actually establish a premise to why than maybe avoid using that term if you're unaware as to what it means as much as you're indicating.

 

[HowlKamui.5120]

I don't know what else to tell you my man. At the end of the day you don't like GW2's gameplay loop and I do. It isn't satisfying to you, but it is to me. I like farming different content for gold, and converting the gold into gems, and you don't. 

If you are not enjoying the game anymore then maybe play something else.

Edited September 17, 2021 by HowlKamui.5120

[Hanako.1827]

3 minutes ago, HowlKamui.5120 said:

I don't know what else to tell you my man. At the end of the day you don't like GW2's gameplay loop and I do. It isn't satisfying to you, but it is to me. I like farming different content for gold, and converting the gold into gems, and you don't. 

If you are not enjoying the game anymore then maybe play something else.

I can voice an opinion as to why the game has something I consider an issue? I don't think you realize a game with an interactive community doesn't really change if people don't express it, especially if a few people in the thread act like shareholders and have to submit to what might be considered a poor decision for player engagement because "well they gotta earn money". (that or they're very weirdly content with the game not building on its initially established cosmetic reward incentive)

[HowlKamui.5120]

10 minutes ago, Hanako.1827 said:

I can voice an opinion as to why the game has something I consider an issue? I don't think you realize a game with an interactive community doesn't really change if people don't express it, especially if a few people in the thread act like shareholders and have to submit to what might be considered a poor decision for player engagement because "well they gotta earn money". (that or they're very weirdly content with the game not building on its initially established cosmetic reward incentive)

I never tried silencing you though. I engaged in discussion with you until I've exhausted all dialogue on my end without being a broken record. 

By all means, voice your opinions away. Expect people to have differing opinions though.

Just don't invalidate people who enjoy the gameplay loop as "weird" or are "submitting to poor practices." We obviously arent playing this game just to give ANet money. We play it because we enjoy the current state of the game. Similar to how you keep saying that we are ignoring your points, don't ignore the fact that some people actually enjoy the current state of the game.

But again, I've said all I can regarding the matter and further discourse seems pointless. I wish you well. Cya around.

Edited September 17, 2021 by HowlKamui.5120

[HowlKamui.5120]

6 minutes ago, Hanako.1827 said:

The thing is, I don't think these people speak in good faith and generally just want to justify their gemstore purchases. 

Then I'll hop back in one last time and tell you you are wrong. All my posts have no ill intent and im certainly not replying in this thread to justify my gemstore purchases. I merely wanted to inform.

As a final bit of advice from me, try to not have preconceived notions of people who you engage with.

Edited September 17, 2021 by HowlKamui.5120

[Sobx.1758]

16 minutes ago, Hanako.1827 said:

I can voice an opinion as to why the game has something I consider an issue? I don't think you realize a game with an interactive community doesn't really change if people don't express it, especially if a few people in the thread act like shareholders and have to submit to what might be considered a poor decision for player engagement because "well they gotta earn money". (that or they're very weirdly content with the game not building on its initially established cosmetic reward incentive)

You don't need to be a shareholder to understand that the company needs to make money in order for the product to exist. In this case, people that -according to you- "act like shareholders" possibly understand this much and are simply willing to close one eye on certain aspects of the game they don't deem as crucial or gamechanging to assign as the "money makers" without influencing the rest of the game. And seeing how I've bought mount skins through gold > gem exchange, I'm not sure why I'm supposed to have a problem with that. I've earned them through gameplay.

[Dean Calaway.9718]

38 minutes ago, Hanako.1827 said:

Not a sound argument. Since one I never established a premise that I'm broke in gw2 to even afford a mount skin or that that's my issue, I have plenty of gold and don't care about farming, and two I HAD established (you just chose to ignore) why that isn't a satisfying alternative because it flatlines  the outcome of how a mount is achieved in contrast to say earning it via a specified accomplishment. If you're gonna try and use terms like "self-defeating" but not actually establish a premise to why than maybe avoid using that term if you're unaware as to what it means as much as you're indicating.

 

Tell me the difference between:
Farming a Raid to get Magnetite Shards to get a Mount.
Farming a Raid to get Gold to get Gems to get a Mount.

There isn't one, you're doing the same content for the same reason, unless you crave for the amount of time to get X Magnetite Shards to be less than the ~350 Gold, defeating your premise of "achieving" through hard content, ergo, self defeating point.

[Dean Calaway.9718]

8 minutes ago, Hanako.1827 said:

 Cool you back tracked on your silly conjecture of "=they don't want to farm gold" assumption, glad you admitted to that. 

I back tracked nothing, you are just digging yourself in a deeper hole here as the walls close in, Magnetite Shards don't mean anything when at any time of day and night you can buy raids with gold to get them to do what ever you want, you can literally get a full set of Legendary armor without ever actually doing any raids yourself or knowing any of the boss mechanics, any well versed player would know this.

[Hanako.1827]

21 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

You don't need to be a shareholder to understand that the company needs to make money in order for the product to exist.

Ive already established that I can understand but not fully empathize with something if it can be considered by some of the player base (and a common criticism of most youtube content creators) a detriment to their playing experience. And also that even mentioning whether or not the inclusion of a few hard-to-earn earnable mount skins will hurt the store skin market so much.

 

I find these people aggravating because you make the argument that "arenanet need to make their money" then tie it with the premise of "make it hard to earn" and the the complaint switches to "But I don't want to be forced into a mode of gameplay or effort to do it". You literally can't win. Its not enough the gemstore has a ton of skins that the idea of some being behind a form of accomplishment is so detrimental to their own experience? So as a result my idealised incentives which I typically expect in an MMO have to disappear? 

 

25 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

And seeing how I've bought mount skins through gold > gem exchange, I'm not sure why I'm supposed to have a problem with that. I've earned them through gameplay.

Because I prefer outcomes that can be tied to feats of accomplishment which has been a present thing in most MMO's that have mounts and more importantly I like incentives to play the game which unlockable mounts have always done. I can't distinguish your efforts from someone paying money and as a result no form of accomplishment is really on display for your efforts which I typically like indicated when im getting something flashy. 

[Hanako.1827]

20 minutes ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

I back tracked nothing, you are just digging yourself in a deeper hole here as the walls close in,

How is it self defeating when a lot of other MMO's have allowed gold to get them mounts through other ways, the idea is that the specific ways the mounts are earned make the price of getting say carried through a raid, or a pvp achievement are so much its not worth it. Ive earned plenty of mounts via gold, and even my own money since I genuinely don't mind giving anet my money on occasion. 

Also Im well aware of paid raids because they exist in other MMO's but!

1.  You understand because a gold buying option exists currently doesn't mean a future implementation has to abide by it right? Thats what this thread is asking. You're the one who pigeon holed it to magnetite shards when I wouldn't even implement it that way. (thats also what your entire original premise relied upon)

2 The gold worth of a run goes up when there's now a mount incentive to pay for one that usually its so much that people will have to spend an absurd amount on gems to get the gold to pay for one that its probably far less incentivising. Especially if it doesn't use your Magnetite example you projected onto my position. (wow has mount runs and has had them for ages and it has never devalued the mount to the point where you see it everywhere, they're just absurdly expensive because its a burden to take a paying player through a harder difficulty raid, which is how I personally would go about earning a mount in a raid)

3. This entire post has argued about multiple ways to get mounts, not only have you tunnel visioned it into raids but youve told me to defend it within a framework you setup.

"I back tracked nothing, you are just digging yourself in a deeper hole here as the walls close in,"

You got me joker. Your complex debating mind has had me cornered with no escaping the maze of  'everything has to be in the gemstore because its not really different from earning it in modes of gameplay right?'

Edited September 17, 2021 by Hanako.1827

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

So, is the Guildrider Warclaw Skin a high-prestige item? Does everyone ooh and aah when they see one in WvW or anywhere else? 

What about the first Gen 2 Legendaries?  Or even Perfected Envoy Armor? 

 

Not sure that's a reason for in-game acquirable Mount Skins in Guild Wars 2.