Mesmers in SPVP

[Silvey.4287]

Im not quiet sure where to start, Ive been playing ranked for a while and got to plat on mesmer before dropping a few days after (I know that isnt good, Ive gotten 5.3k in dota and diamond in league so im not super bad in these sorts of games). I dont know if my experience is a universal one tell me if im just bad or something but what does mesmer currently do well at?

 

For the most successful build ive tried is carrion axe/pistol|sword torch as a +1/roamer. Its seems to be ok as a support in teamfights because of the 4 dazes in the kit but is a fairly bad 1v1er, fighting on side nodes can be very painful. Meta classes seem to cycle so much healing, evade, block, reflect, invuln while pulsing fairly high consistant damage and this spec relies on jumping in interrupting and then bursting if your caught or run out of saves you die, if the enemy can out survive 1-2 bursts they win. The build is useful in team fights but blinds/agis nullifies the manta when these boons are constantly being pulsed. For matchups it can kill vanilla necro if you hit every daze in succession without interrupt, reaper are 50/50, scourges I struggle with. This spec struggles to kill rangers (permanently kite when they want, easy access to stealth regen evade block while pet deals damage and instant access to knockdowns into GS 3 etc, if you interrupt they just run away again if theyre smart but every ranger build feels awful to fight), holo (seem to be permanently invuln, projectile reflect huge jumps then crit you for 6k from nowhere), bunker builds like scourge and guardian do nothing but stand still and slowly whittling you down and you cant reduce them below 80% hp if they have thumbs with the amount of Condi corruption/removal, reflect, agis, protection regen they can cycle with little effort, a good DH guard can also permanently kite with trapper rules, aegis block reflect and steal makes and form of commitment on a double melee weapon build bad into the fight. If i havnt mentioned the class they havnt come to mind

 

Ive tried a variety of carrion/sage|UD/lynx, staff builds going full signet alacrity spam (illusions, chaos, mirage) and chaos dueling mirage, chaos illusions mirage etc. I really like the idea of this build, I wish staff1, mainly due to the fact its a projectile and its very slow loving, its so easily Los'd, there's also a lot of classes that have ranged Condi weapons that are just flat better in terms of condi application and damage.  For signet damage healing seems to be about even on SPVP build and is a support/damage hybrid. Condi's seem to be wiped instantly, stacking 4-6 boons with pulsing aegis, the instant you join mid none of your projectiles hit for about 10 seconds of a team fight if theres an ele guard or mm necro. I feel like the reason staff damage is tuned so badly is because of illusions also applying the same conditions, yet in pvp illusions how very low uptime and to get 3 staff mirages is fairly hard as youll want to use a shatter to survive or daze. The alacrity helps team mates but it doesn't feel like you actually do anything when it comes to damage yet youll end a game with 200k damage 180k healing.

 

dom/duel/mirage marauder/scholar GS|S/T feels fun if no one looks at you for 20 seconds racking up high damage in teamfights (unless its a scourge or guard because reasons?????????) but if they try and kill you they will win eventually. see theif/ranger/other mesmers/revs/preaper etc, and if im honest shiro bow does this builds role better with better survive but without projectiles. 3-4k crit beams arnt that much considering the damage that comes out of holo/P reaper/ ranger/ shirorev/ren/DE thief. If you have a good team the damage can be high, but if I were making a team id rather have a shiro bow or p reaper for its utility sustain and reliablility. The build dies if it gets focused so its only really good as a +1 or a damage in teamfights.

 

Ive tried rabid staff/ a/p|s/p dueling chaos,mirage. losing sword ambush makes you a weak roamer the damage is slightly higher, your also forced between having better condi removal or more condi damage (chaos 2 line) (mirage 3 line), you could trait condi mantra but you lose ambush utility which means team wide alacrity is reduced, I might test it a bit more... 

 

Ive tried hybrid shatter you sacrifice interrupts for more crit/sustain condi, but without dazes you struggle to kill a lot more classes, kind of a no go maybe needs more testing...

 

Also chrono dead, Ive tried making a support chrono leading to 500-800 damage shatters and weak survivability, support isn't even that good when you compare it to scourge or vanilla guard (lolwhat), and pure power which makes you even more glassy than normal, so it can be fun but ultimately gimmicky.

 

 

 

I'm sure I've said a load of stuff people will disagree with and I'm probably wrong in a lot of cases because im bad wondering if any other mesmers can share their experience in spvp, Being crit for 6-8k constantly by classes that don't even sacrifice all that much surivability in traits and utility as its just their base kit (necro, ranger, guard to a lesser extent) while dealing high damage just seems counter intuitive.

[De Bourgogne.9642]

Domi condi mirage is good in ranked you probably just need to get better at it, it take a lot of effort but it is definetly very powerful in ranked. High effort, high reward. Power Mirage is also okay but not as strong, since its also high effort but not as high reward.

 

Chaos mirage sidenoder is also very strong since staff is pretty stupid now with constant 5s baseline confusion spam. It is much easier to get good results and then you have axe or scepter which are great weapons as well. You should be pretty even with core rangers and fireweavers.

 

Outside of chaos staff builds mesmer is just a class where you need to outplay opponent to win in most cases. Other classes do things easier and/or better. Your last paragraph is very true. If you want to deal damage on core mes you need to go 3 offensive traitlines (illusions, dueling, domination) which leaves you with 0 cleanse and sustain. Same with chrono double offensive and mirage but luckly mirage actually has cleanse. Meanwhile other classes running sustain traitlines dealing more damage. Alchemy on nade holo, retribution on renegade, blood on Reaper ...

Edited September 4, 2021 by McPero.3287

[Guirssane.7082]

If you got a support in your team you can try a power chrono, it just plays as a dps with some control, it's an awful sidenoder it's meant to teamfight. You have access to control and some defensive with a sword/shield switch. If you tried every other playstyle well try out this one. It's not easy to play without a support cause it's really squishy but you play with marauder amulet and it's still a good dps. It's not the best build available for mesmer but you can do well with it if that suits more your playstyle.

Otherwise the usual Mirage builds are fine, maybe you struggle against certain match up. Try to duel the class that you have a hard time against if you sidenode with Mirage. 

[SevlisBavles.3059]

It's funny how all the most fun builds like LR Weaver, Roamer Mirage, Decap Druid are all so uncompetitive while builds that win you matches by AFKing nodes and cycling sustain skills like it's PvE are dominant. Actually it's not funny, it's incredibly kittening sad and PvP is dying because of it.

[Math.5123]

32 minutes ago, SevlisBavles.3059 said:

It's funny how all the most fun builds like LR Weaver, Roamer Mirage, Decap Druid are all so uncompetitive while builds that win you matches by AFKing nodes and cycling sustain skills like it's PvE are dominant. Actually it's not funny, it's incredibly kittening sad and PvP is dying because of it.

How and in what world is decap druid "fun"?

 

Any build that revolves around pushing someone off node while infinitely sustaining should not exist. Be it Scrapper, druid or core guard. 

LR weaver is actually very powerful into power sidenoders.

[Terrorhuz.4695]

5 hours ago, Silvey.4287 said:

yadda yadda yadda

Not just your experience. Mesmer is really really bad in PvP, though the thief nerf (most deserved nerf I remember tbh) at least gave some room to breathe. Holosmiths and rangers are the most painful to match, core rangers in particular being borderline bs tier rn. Just stick to roaming and you should be good, don't ever try to 1v1 anyone, every other spec is better at this rn.

[Genesis.5169]

I agree any effort you put into mesmers would be better to put into rev or ele the difficulty curve to pay off isn't as high as those classes to set up burst you gotta set 3 clones which for my build is staff 2 jaunt and a phantasm or w/e utility then you have to interrupt to cover your damage and you have to look for no dodging as your margin for error is huge if you don't shatter you lose your clones and vigor and ton of damage, if you shatter to soon your found too soon and you die.

 

No other class in the game you have to be the better player to win every MU, No other class in the game is your the lesser one you will lose you have no favorable MU's just unfavorable ones.

[Leonidrex.5649]

9 minutes ago, Genesis.5169 said:

I agree any effort you put into mesmers would be better to put into rev or ele the difficulty curve to pay off isn't as high as those classes to set up burst you gotta set 3 clones which for my build is staff 2 jaunt and a phantasm or w/e utility then you have to interrupt to cover your damage and you have to look for no dodging as your margin for error is huge if you don't shatter you lose your clones and vigor and ton of damage, if you shatter to soon your found too soon and you die.

 

No other class in the game you have to be the better player to win every MU, No other class in the game is your the lesser one you will lose you have no favorable MU's just unfavorable ones.

there is some favourable MU but not many, warrior and nades holo comes to mind.
but in general thats it, even something that used to be favourable ( rev ) is no longer so and its downhill from there, as bunker kitten counters mesmer.

[Monkey See.1498]

Mesmer is exceptionally strong right now.  Perhaps the strongest profession and frankly in need of serious nerfs.  It pretty much has no losing match ups.

You more or less have the right builds, you just need to get good at them.  

[Axl.8924]

7 hours ago, Math.5123 said:

How and in what world is decap druid "fun"?

 

Any build that revolves around pushing someone off node while infinitely sustaining should not exist. Be it Scrapper, druid or core guard. 

LR weaver is actually very powerful into power sidenoders.

 

Fun is subjective and to someone on the others side hwo loses but doesn't understand why they might find it unfair and have a skewed vision of balance.

[Leonidrex.5649]

3 hours ago, Monkey See.1498 said:

Mesmer is exceptionally strong right now.  Perhaps the strongest profession and frankly in need of serious nerfs.  It pretty much has no losing match ups.

You more or less have the right builds, you just need to get good at them.  

detached from reality xd

[Hirosama Nadasaki.6792]

4 hours ago, Monkey See.1498 said:

Mesmer is exceptionally strong right now.  Perhaps the strongest profession and frankly in need of serious nerfs.  It pretty much has no losing match ups.

You more or less have the right builds, you just need to get good at them.  

 

Yea man, that's why literally nobody at tournaments play mesmer, they're just trying to keep the match fair by willingly not picking such an extremely powerful, god-like profession.

That surely must be what is happening!

[SevlisBavles.3059]

4 hours ago, Monkey See.1498 said:

Mesmer is exceptionally strong right now.  Perhaps the strongest profession and frankly in need of serious nerfs.  It pretty much has no losing match ups.

You more or less have the right builds, you just need to get good at them.  

Dude, where do you buy your stuff? I would really like to smoke something that can catapult my judgement this far from reality.

[De Bourgogne.9642]

9 hours ago, SevlisBavles.3059 said:

Dude, where do you buy your stuff? I would really like to smoke something that can catapult my judgement this far from reality.

It is just the side effect of playing too many silver games losing to Mirage bots.

[Axl.8924]

This just proves how much bias and hate there is for mes and thief.

 

People literally want mesmer to what stand there and be free kills?

Edited September 5, 2021 by Axl.8924