Let's redesign Stances!

[Zergs.9715]

This image  got me thinking why can't warrior stances be well... actual stances. I know it's easier to make a fire and forget skill but honestly they are boring and bland. How cool it would be to have your character actually change the way he/she is standing and holding a weapon depending on what stance you're in. It would be a lot of work initially, but once you're done you can apply it to all professions that have Stances and get something flavorful and visually interesting forever. Idle animations would be split into 3 categories defence/offence and/support. For example defensive would be the image i linked, offensive male human GS hold, support female human GS dragging. There's also a ton of animations that can be reused for dual wielding characters. It's not like they have to start everything from scratch.

 

Oooor just forget about animations (which would be awesome!!!) and focus on new skills! 😁😁😁

 

Here's how I imagine it:

1. New Stances would work like a mix of Kits and Attunements. Entering stance changes its icon to Unequip icon

2. Like Kits, when you enter Stance you can stay as long as you like

3. Like Attunement, leaving or swapping Stance puts it on a [insert number] cooldown

4. You get pulsing boons/effects depending on Stance you're in.

5. If you think that effects are powerful bear in mind that you can use ONLY ONE at a time instead of popping them all at once.

6. You are Warrior, Harry! You SHOULD be a killing machine!

 

DEFIANT STANCE

When you're damaged, you're healed for a % of the damage dealt. When you block an attack, you're healed for a large amount/full damage

 

BALLANCED STANCE

All critical hits are turned to normal hits. Pulse swiftness.

 

BERSERKER STANCE

Pulse might, -180 Toughness

Duration of non-damaging conditions is reduced by 50%

 

ENDURE PAIN

Pulse protection. Break stun.

You cannot be controlled

 

FRENZY

If you have [insert number] might stacks, pulse quickness

 

So what do you think? Do you have any ideas how they should be changed if at all? I know that a lot of ppl are using existing ones to great effect, but I just find them boring and genuinely lazy design. On top of it all, no matter what it says on the tin they are not stances.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Zergs.9715 said:

This image  got me thinking why can't warrior stances be well... actual stances. I know it's easier to make a fire and forget skill but honestly they are boring and bland. How cool it would be to have your character actually change the way he/she is standing and holding a weapon depending on what stance you're in. It would be a lot of work initially, but once you're done you can apply it to all professions that have Stances and get something flavorful and visually interesting forever. Idle animations would be split into 3 categories defence/offence and/support. For example defensive would be the image i linked, offensive male human GS hold, support female human GS dragging. There's also a ton of animations that can be reused for dual wielding characters. It's not like they have to start everything from scratch.

 

Oooor just forget about animations (which would be awesome!!!) and focus on new skills! 😁😁😁

Alright, I see where we are going with this. Bear in mind though that Soulbeasts, and Weavers would also need such changes, unless you change warrior's 'stances' to another skill type entirely.

1 hour ago, Zergs.9715 said:

Here's how I imagine it:

1. New Stances would work like a mix of Kits and Attunements. Entering stance changes its icon to Unequip icon

You'll run into balance problems with the things you suggest below. IF you want this to happen and also work well, they would have to function more like conjures where the stance persists for a duration and can be left early. They would also have to have CDs once you leave.

1 hour ago, Zergs.9715 said:

2. Like Kits, when you enter Stance you can stay as long as you like

See above.

1 hour ago, Zergs.9715 said:

3. Like Attunement, leaving or swapping Stance puts it on a [insert number] cooldown

See above.

1 hour ago, Zergs.9715 said:

4. You get pulsing boons/effects depending on Stance you're in.

Cool, I'm in.

1 hour ago, Zergs.9715 said:

5. If you think that effects are powerful bear in mind that you can use ONLY ONE at a time instead of popping them all at once.

Naturally.

1 hour ago, Zergs.9715 said:

6. You are Warrior, Harry! You SHOULD be a killing machine!

Preach it.

1 hour ago, Zergs.9715 said:

DEFIANT STANCE

When you're damaged, you're healed for a % of the damage dealt. When you block an attack, you're healed for a large amount/full damage

This is why you can stay in this for as long as you want. This would have to be an effect that you gain from using skills while in the stance, not some passive perma benefit.

1 hour ago, Zergs.9715 said:

BALLANCED STANCE

All critical hits are turned to normal hits. Pulse swiftness.

See above. Too strong for a passive perma benefit.

1 hour ago, Zergs.9715 said:

BERSERKER STANCE

Pulse might, -180 Toughness

Duration of non-damaging conditions is reduced by 50%

It would have to be smaller, like 20-33%, believe me you really only need another 20% to nullify 4 of the more common non damaging conditions that hose warrior.

1 hour ago, Zergs.9715 said:

ENDURE PAIN

Pulse protection. Break stun.

You cannot be controlled

Too powerful for a perma passive.

1 hour ago, Zergs.9715 said:

FRENZY

If you have [insert number] might stacks, pulse quickness

 

So what do you think? Do you have any ideas how they should be changed if at all? I know that a lot of ppl are using existing ones to great effect, but I just find them boring and genuinely lazy design. On top of it all, no matter what it says on the tin they are not stances.

Perma passives so long as you don't leave or be forced out of is bad balance. Cool idea though.

[Zergs.9715]

@Lan Deathrider.5910

 

Hey! Thanks for the nice break down!

 

I think that playstyle would be viable mechanics wise if the numbers are properly balanced. Maybe offset more powerful effects with stronger debuffs.

I don't know whether it's bad design or not, but the game is has lots of stuff like that. I tried not to stray too far from gw2 current designs. Herald can maintain his passives indefinitely and not just one, Ele cannot be crit as long as he is in earth, Harbinger will be able to maintain shroud almost if not permanently, core necro can pulse perma protection as long as he has 25 carapace, engi pulses juggernaut. There's probably more.

 

I think that as long as you apply proper counterweight to the power you're getting, anything can be balanced.

[kmark.8519]

To balance it out, "active" stances would eat up your adrenaline (so you have an active stance where your character puts their concentration and focus, but then you can't do burst! good balance imho), kinda like with other class and their depleting class resources on active stuffs.

Edited September 9, 2021 by kmark.8519

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

It works thematically as well. From Kung Fu to Boxing and from fencing to spear fighting, everyone who learns to fight, learns stances. The only thing that might put Anet off is that WoW warrior uses stances. I think Anet takes pride in innovating and doesn't like copying what's already been done.

[Zergs.9715]

On 9/10/2021 at 10:12 AM, Verdict is Vengence.6912 said:

It works thematically as well. From Kung Fu to Boxing and from fencing to spear fighting, everyone who learns to fight, learns stances. The only thing that might put Anet off is that WoW warrior uses stances. I think Anet takes pride in innovating and doesn't like copying what's already been done.

 

Eh GW2's stances aren't that innovative and WoW's stances are hardly original concept. I used to play old MMO called Shadowbane which also had stance dancers. Offensive stance for more damage, precise stance for taking down high def characters, defensive stance for evading hits. Pretty standard stuff. I'm sure a lot of MMOs have similar concepts. If Anet is trying to stand out with those stances then they are doing terrible job of it since they the most forgettable skills I've ever seen. 🙂

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

39 minutes ago, Zergs.9715 said:

 

Eh GW2's stances aren't that innovative and WoW's stances are hardly original concept. I used to play old MMO called Shadowbane which also had stance dancers. Offensive stance for more damage, precise stance for taking down high def characters, defensive stance for evading hits. Pretty standard stuff. I'm sure a lot of MMOs have similar concepts. If Anet is trying to stand out with those stances then they are doing terrible job of it since they the most forgettable skills I've ever seen. 🙂

Too true. All points are valid. Anet's unique mechanic for warrior is adrenaline which is pretty much rage from WoW warrior but lacks the utility and flexibility.

 

Anet failing hard on warrior now. Looking up how other video games have used warrior resources like rage or warrior stances, it shows how inadequate warrior is in GW2 right now. I've said it before somewhere on a forum but Anet somehow failed on the simplest class in RPG history.

[Downstate.4697]

Stances need lower cooldowns. The effects are too little to justify 40s cooldowns. 

 

Defiant stance 30->25s

Balanced stance 60->45s

Berserker stance cd is fine but needs to cleanse 2 condi per second.

Endure pain 4s baseline

Frenzy 45->30s and 10 might->5 might and 4 quickness->3s

[Kodama.6453]

On 9/9/2021 at 4:34 PM, Zergs.9715 said:

I don't know whether it's bad design or not, but the game is has lots of stuff like that. I tried not to stray too far from gw2 current designs. Herald can maintain his passives indefinitely and not just one, Ele cannot be crit as long as he is in earth, Harbinger will be able to maintain shroud almost if not permanently, core necro can pulse perma protection as long as he has 25 carapace, engi pulses juggernaut. There's probably more.

Many of the stuff you suggested is way more powerful than what is in the game, though.

 

Either because it has no conditions added or it is straight up a stronger version.

Stone heart requires you to stay in earth attunement, which means that you have access to just 5 of your 20 weapon skills as long as you want to get the benefits of this trait.

Juggernaut requires you to stay in flamethrower and pulses 1 stack of stability every 3 seconds, which is way weaker than the effect "you can't be controlled".

 

Stances how you suggest them here just have the downside that you can just use one at a time, but you can use any weapon you want with them, as long as you just pick one stance in your bar, you get the effects permanently without restricting your gameplay in any way, while some of the other effects you mention are locking you out of parts of your build.

 

[Aeolus.3615]

 

The fix for stances:

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Stance

 

Stances should work like a stance like the word itself means rather something that creates boons for certain effects.. but gw2 is what it is.. best way would be to address this and do a hybrid version of gw1 stances and gw2.

Problem with GW2  is everything is boon's... its the culprit if the awful balance that the game always had...

Stances should last around 5-6 some even 10sec and entering stances would end the previous stance, one cant have several stance at the same time.

IMO stance should work like this:

Enduring Pain (Duration: 8s) (Cooldown: 40sec): You take  70% less damage from incoming attacks, periodically gain resolution.
Resolution application Interval: 1 second
Stance ends if you use another stance during its time.
Breaks Stun

Balanced Stance (Duration: 4s) (Cooldown: 38sec): You become immune to knocked down, pushed back, pulled, launched, stunned, dazed, floated, sunk, feared, or taunted.
Breaks Stun.
Stance ends if you use another stance during its time.

Berserker's Stance (10s):Stance. For 10sec you attack  20% faster and  gain adrenaline every second.
Adrenaline (1s): 3
Breaks Stun
Stance ends if you use another stance during its time.

Frenzy Stance(Duration: 4sec)(Cooldown:40): Gain quickness and might at cost of armor.
25% less armor while in Frenzy, at 25 might stacks.
Quickness application Interval: 1 second
Gain 2s might per hit suffered.
Breaks Stun
Stance ends if you use another stance during its time.

Edited September 13, 2021 by Aeolus.3615

[Naneel.2348]

Really cool idea for a unique skill type. I agree the effects need to be more balanced, but the overall idea is awesome and very fitting.

Could also work on Ele and Ranger, but i fear Ele would need some own animations to really fit, e.g. Staff, Scepter maybe even dagger. For Ranger it would be cool to really have stances that mimic the animals they are named after (like the Kungu styles try to mimic actual animals). Would be a ot of work, but if done right also really cool 😍