Vindicator looks great, but can it compete with Renegade and Herald?

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

The press release for vindicator has a very interesting tidbit at the very end:

"Energy Meld will change to Alliance Tactics and immediately flip all current alliance skills to their counterparts. "

If I understand correctly that means using F2 when in core legend will switch to legendary alliance stance regardless of standard legend swap cooldown.

If it is so this huge benficial implications for vindicator:

1. Energy recharge. Swap to core legend, than f2 back to legendary alliance. Core legend will "pay" the energy cost of F2, while you wind up with fresh 50 energy to keep using alliance skills.

2. Better control over core legend. F2 will be able to get you outta unwanted core swap on demand when needed.
Imagine your team is about to eat a huge hit. You swap to Jalis to cast Rite of Great Dwarf but right after taking the hit you want to burst heal teammates. With F2 you can quickly hop back to legendary alliance stance and get busy healing.

3. More frequent legends swaps (and energy recharges) - if F2 can take me outta core legend swap into alliance, then there is a chance this does not affect standard legend swap cooldown.
Imagine i swap to Jalis again and leave it with f2 after 5 seconds. Standard legend swap cooldown will have 5s left, after which i can hop into Jalis again (albeit this time i would have to stay full 10s in it, since F2 is on cooldown).

 

[Vasdamas Anklast.1607]

On 9/19/2021 at 1:36 PM, Fueki.4753 said:

You can watch the live Stream recording on Youtube. It has all the traits covered.

I see, tyvm.  Didn't watch full length and checked on forums a bit too late so I guess I'll just wait for beta now 😛

[InsaneQR.7412]

My main concern is the lack of CC.

 

I would have loved it if the spear of archemorus would have been a ground targeted upkeep CC that you can flip over for damage. This would mimic Viktors ashes and would pronide meaningful CC instad of DPS boost upkeep like shiro or jalis.

[Aeolus.3615]

On 9/19/2021 at 1:30 PM, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

I'd be happy with seraph equivalent - power/precision + healing/contentration.

Also i forgot to mention - the vindicator dodge  is another sign of offensive support. You get a huge I-frame with ability to reposition real well, giving you room to invest less in defensive stats, especially vitality.

Actually serapth with some other stats mixed looks interesting in paper, has this spec feels more ortiend to be in the hot zone rather arorund it.

We also have zealots and plebs err i ment cleric.

 

Edited September 20, 2021 by Aeolus.3615

[Thon.3780]

As I notice vindicator use chill as CC , 

if we see normal attack3 it chill 3 sec!!! If we use viper or Expertise set for 50% condi duration, you can freeze 4.5 sec 

 

so Vindi will be action disruptor in WvW like necro. Just no minion…..

[draxynnic.3719]

1 minute ago, Thon.3780 said:

As I notice vindicator use chill as CC , 

if we see normal attack3 it chill 3 sec!!! If we use viper or Expertise set for 50% condi duration, you can freeze 4.5 sec 

 

so Vindi will be action disruptor in WvW like necro. Just no minion…..

Yeah, I've noticed myself that all that chill application possibly makes greatsword the power rev weapon that also has the greatest synergy with Abyssal Chill. Coupled with having a block on a relatively short recharge, 8s burning on Scavenger Burst, and the sustain potential of the Kurzick side of things, it could be interesting to see how it compares to celestial condi tormenting herald.

[Thon.3780]

One more thing 

if you see elite skill , spear . Range 2000

if it combine with sigil of ice. You can frozen- snipe enemy from long range in WvW.  That help team to beat enemy from back line or mark target.

[Kidel.2057]

After this first day of beta, I can safely say I was right. 

[Fueki.4753]

After testing it, I can say: It simply felt bad.

While the Greatsword almost felt okay'ish, it was really bland with hardly a twist on what every other melee power greatsword already does.

In my opinion, the only Greatsword that's worse is Warrior's.

As I assumed, the flip over utilities skills felt bad. Even my "favourite" among them, the Spear of the Razor Warband Archemorus, felt bad to use.

It would have felt much better as two completely independent legends.

I don't see what's so elite worthy of the urn. The continuous HP loss needs to go or the healing needs to be substantially better.

[Dahkeus.8243]

As it stands now: I don’t enjoy Vindicator as much as Ren or Herald.  That being said, I wasn’t a big fan of Renegade or Herald initially either.  However, both of those specs have been tuned significantly to improve them.  The seven shot rework for Renegade was HUIUGE for how good longbow ended up.  
 

Outside of pure enjoyment, the role of Vind does have potential to be the pure power DPS spec in PvE with Ren being the one for Condi as well as for Alac and Herald being the boon support/DPS hybrid.  It just depends on where the benchmarks land, but the potential is definitely there.

 

For PvP, it has the potential to be a brawler, team-fight build, which is some welcome variety from the more roamer/assassin type role that current meta builds end up more tuned towards.

 

There’s also some potential for a healer build, but that’s probably a lot harder to pull off than other roles without a bit of a rework.

[Kidel.2057]

Funny how I opened this thread before the beta and people are reacting to it like it's a beta feedback.

After the beta I can mostly confirm my fears, but not only that. I couldn't predict how bad the F2 mechanic on Alliance was, because the guild chat preview didn't have cooldowns. It would still be bad even without cooldowns however. It needs to be changed.