OK... So we still have 6 Gods!

[Rognik.2579]

@Redfeather.6401 said:

@draxynnic.3719 said:

@Redfeather.6401 said:I still think lyssa could be two entities and something significant happened between lyssa and balthazar (such as possibly becoming a retainer for his power?).Kind of suspicious that balthazar didn't curse lyssa, when cursing the gods by name, and that he had the mirror.Also suspicious that wintersday is right around the corner, and that means the beginning of the season of zephyr. Which means, the festival of lyss being celebrated in.... Vabbi! Possible Living Story episode? :astonished:

Joko seems to have banned worship of the gods (in favour of himself), so it's likely that the old traditions like the Festival of Lyss are no more.

 

Isn't Joko imprisoned in another realm now?

Even if Joko can't be everywhere, his Archons and generals still follow his will, so there's not going to be a public Festival of Lyss. It might be interesting to find out some are holding it in private, kind of like that secret shrine to Kormir in the Desolation.

[DarcShriek.5829]

Isn't it obvious, Lord Faren is the 6th god.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@Ardid.7203 said:I think it is a simple description of the hierarchy. There are 6 places for the gods. No matter how many got killed or banned, there will still be 6 divine aspects to fulfill, which will be eventually taken by someone. The Six will be "The Six" as long as this structure keeps in place: its a name of the Pantheon because it is the shape it has as a whole, not because the current number of people in charge.So Balthy was fired and no one has shown up to take the place, yet. So there are 5 gods in total. Well, they are still The Six, the seat for God of War is simply waiting applications.

So then why did the group get called "The Five" for 1,075 years out of the 2,117 years that make up the known (to players) human existence on the world of Tyria?

[draxynnic.3719]

@Redfeather.6401 said:

@draxynnic.3719 said:

@Redfeather.6401 said:I still think lyssa could be two entities and something significant happened between lyssa and balthazar (such as possibly becoming a retainer for his power?).Kind of suspicious that balthazar didn't curse lyssa, when cursing the gods by name, and that he had the mirror.Also suspicious that wintersday is right around the corner, and that means the beginning of the season of zephyr. Which means, the festival of lyss being celebrated in.... Vabbi! Possible Living Story episode? :astonished:

Joko seems to have banned worship of the gods (in favour of himself), so it's likely that the old traditions like the Festival of Lyss are no more.

 

Isn't Joko imprisoned in another realm now?

 

 

One of the NPCs in the Halloween event - the candy corn general - indicates that Joko is active again. The chains that bound Joko were made by Balthaddon, and it was implied that killing Balthaddon would break or at least weaken the chains. So with Balthaddon dead, it's likely that Joko gained his freedom in short order.

Even if Joko was still missing, the Festival of Lyss wouldn't have been celebrated for about two centuries, and even historical knowledge has likely been suppressed. It's unlikely - possible, but unlikely - that anyone in Vabbi still remembers what they'd be supposed to do for the Festival of Lyss even if they wanted to.

 

[Inc.4753]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Ardid.7203 said:I think it is a simple description of the hierarchy. There are 6 places for the gods. No matter how many got killed or banned, there will still be 6 divine aspects to fulfill, which will be eventually taken by someone. The Six will be "The Six" as long as this structure keeps in place: its a name of the Pantheon because it is the shape it has as a whole, not because the current number of people in charge.So Balthy was fired and no one has shown up to take the place, yet. So there are 5 gods in total. Well, they are still The Six, the seat for God of War is simply waiting applications.

So then why did the group get called "The Five" for 1,075 years out of the 2,117 years that make up the known (to players) human existence on the world of Tyria?

Given what we knew of magic and the Five/Six during GW1 prior to Nightfall, I'd say the remaining five of the Six wouldn't want people to know that magic didn't need to be separated as it was then (which was the entire reason the big A was cast down and imprisoned). Humanity had proven once it couldn't handle the responsibility, no need to take the risk they would find out what magic can do when the different 'schools' are united. Best to keep the sixth god hidden and by extension not even implicate there is a sixth place and prevent questions about why that seat is vacant, hence the 'Five'.

To me the events of Nightfall and the existence of six ED's indicate six seems to be the best/only option when it come to dividing and balancing magic. I can accept the ED's avoiding a fight between each other because they have no way to be sure who will end up the victor (although there could easily be one whom would risk it all to gain it all), but when Abaddon was defeated the remaining Five could probably have come in to take his magic. Instead, first they imprisoned him and later they allowed a human to take his place. I'd guess they wouldn't have chosen such an unpredictable solution if they could have solved the problem of Abaddon's loose magic themselves.

Then again, if Balthazar's place isn't (to be) filled by another entity, the 'Six' wouldn't exist anymore so no entity can be a part of the 'Six'. Kormir could have spared us this discussion if she had just added 'We are 'The Five' now.' God of selective Truth she is...

[Squee.7829]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Ardid.7203 said:I think it is a simple description of the hierarchy. There are 6 places for the gods. No matter how many got killed or banned, there will still be 6 divine aspects to fulfill, which will be eventually taken by someone. The Six will be "The Six" as long as this structure keeps in place: its a name of the Pantheon because it is the shape it has as a whole, not because the current number of people in charge.So Balthy was fired and no one has shown up to take the place, yet. So there are 5 gods in total. Well, they are still The Six, the seat for God of War is simply waiting applications.

So then why did the group get called "The Five" for 1,075 years out of the 2,117 years that make up the known (to players) human existence on the world of Tyria?

I agree with this, however, I feel like it might be important to point out that there was a very active effort to thoroughly rid human memory of Abaddon. This would be very hard to do if people referred to the remaining 5 gods as "the 6..." Future generations would ask "well who is number 6"? Also, I wonder if the generation that witnessed Abaddon's fall said 6 or 5. (I'm not sure about the methods of Abaddon's erasure from memory)

There was no such effort for Balthazar. This is a generation of humans who grew up saying "the 6" and it may be a generation or two before people get used to saying "The 5 " again. Assuming no successor is found. Or is already found.

I'm not saying a replacement hasn't been found. Just that common phrasing might take a lot more time to change.

[Aplethoraof.2643]

@Westenev.5289 said:Or maybe Kasmeer is the new God of War. It'd explain why all the gods are rooting for her and her alone, regardless of the fact it's the person next to her that will be performing the important feats.

Kormir 2.0 confirmed.

[Michram.6853]

@Aplethoraof.2643 said:

@Westenev.5289 said:Or maybe Kasmeer is the new God of War. It'd explain why all the gods are rooting for her and her alone, regardless of the fact it's the person next to her that will be performing the important feats.

Kormir 2.0 confirmed.

According to what Kormir said 5 gods took Balthazar's powers, but it doesn't make sense if they were so scared because of Balthazar, if they have his powers so why 1 god didn't take his powers, like make a council that choose Melandru for example.

This is why I think one person took his powers, but it's not confirmed by anything.

[draxynnic.3719]

@Inc.4753 said:God of selective Truth she is...

Well, she is also the god of secrets, which would seem to mean that she's not required to tell the whole truth...

[Ardid.7203]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Ardid.7203 said:I think it is a simple description of the hierarchy. There are 6 places for the gods. No matter how many got killed or banned, there will still be 6 divine aspects to fulfill, which will be eventually taken by someone. The Six will be "The Six" as long as this structure keeps in place: its a name of the Pantheon because it is the shape it has as a whole, not because the current number of people in charge.So Balthy was fired and no one has shown up to take the place, yet. So there are 5 gods in total. Well, they are still The Six, the seat for God of War is simply waiting applications.

So then why did the group get called "The Five" for 1,075 years out of the 2,117 years that make up the known (to players) human existence on the world of Tyria?

I frankly don't know, since my opinion was based on what I saw at the PoF story, nothing more. I didn't have that data before. It comes from GW1, right?

[Aaron Ansari.1604]

@Inc.4753 said:

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:So then why did the group get called "The Five" for 1,075 years out of the 2,117 years that make up the known (to players) human existence on the world of Tyria?

Given what we knew of magic and the Five/Six during GW1 prior to Nightfall, I'd say the remaining five of the Six wouldn't want people to know that magic didn't need to be separated as it was then (which was the entire reason the big A was cast down and imprisoned). Humanity had proven once it couldn't handle the responsibility, no need to take the risk they would find out what magic can do when the different 'schools' are united. Best to keep the sixth god hidden and by extension not even implicate there is a sixth place and prevent questions about why that seat is vacant, hence the 'Five'.

Not exactly. From what we saw of Nightfall, the reason seems to be that just knowing about Abaddon gave him a foothold through which to interact with the world. That's why every soul that came into contact with even his indirect influence, like charr shamans in service to the Titans or Orrians killed in the Cataclysm, were consigned to the Realm of Torment. In extreme cases, we even saw individuals who gained tainted knowledge spontaneously swallowed up or slain by ridts leading to the Realm of Torment, possibly disgorging a small host of demons in the process.

That said, the same measures wouldn't need to be taken to wipe Balthazar from history, nor are the remaining gods even in a position to do so. If we do move from 'the Six' to 'the Five' again, it's going to be a result of human initiative to distance their remaining faith from the bloodthirsty, mass-murdering traitor.

[Zeivu.3615]

@Redfeather.6401 said:

@draxynnic.3719 said:

@Redfeather.6401 said:I still think lyssa could be two entities and something significant happened between lyssa and balthazar (such as possibly becoming a retainer for his power?).Kind of suspicious that balthazar didn't curse lyssa, when cursing the gods by name, and that he had the mirror.Also suspicious that wintersday is right around the corner, and that means the beginning of the season of zephyr. Which means, the festival of lyss being celebrated in.... Vabbi! Possible Living Story episode? :astonished:

Joko seems to have banned worship of the gods (in favour of himself), so it's likely that the old traditions like the Festival of Lyss are no more.

 

Isn't Joko imprisoned in another realm now?

 

There is a dynamic event in Vabbi where you are allowed to answer children's questions. If you give enough answers that don't follow Joko's narrative, you will get attacked by his henchman for your 'heresy' (Kind of creepy that in the way that it presented, as there are some people who actually think like this in communistic dictatorships.) . A lot of them have nothing to do with Joko directly, so it is unlikely that no one alive still knows of it.

[moonstarmac.4603]

@Mickey Frogeater.1470 said:Correction: Abaddon and Dhuum make Demons while Menzies creates Shadow Army members and Undead. Menzies may have allied with Abaddon yet let's not forget that GW1's Hero allied with Palawa Joko who is also evil and had aided Mad King Thorn's attempt to escape into Tyria which would have corrupted it just as much as Abaddon's return would have.

Menzies also sent his armies, with help from Abbadon's, to attempt to liberate Dhuum.