Stop trying making complex specs

[Bunny.9834]

Catalyst is simply: All setup, no reward. 

[Razor.6392]

Catalyst is just badly designed.

[frareanselm.1925]

12 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Not rly. Because the games hardest content only requires you to perform at 50% of the proffessions ability.

Because of how easy they made the content itself complicated speccs are fine because the games created go ensure it doesn't matter if you learn the information. 

That's not true, I cannot do Raid content in a engi turret build, for example. The endgame is elitist and if you dont perform you're kicked in most groups.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

I just don't get why we need to cast a field, struggle to maintain energy ... to do what others classes can do with shouts, mantras, elixirs, etc !?

Spam boons, quickness and ... that's all.   (Yes, the combo field, but was it really an issue with D/D, staff, in group, in wvw ? Even in pve/OW an aura every 10sec ... who cares ? Doesn't even trigger Persisting flames)
Sure we have precedents, Ventari / kalla, wells ... but at least they work and have multiple effects.

The mechanic has been spoiled.
The field could serve as a teleport, a projectile block, a trap, a healing/rez field, a "range option" for augments effects, an aura detonator, a "banner" to grant uniques buffs/stats, damage / Conditions, it could have option to increase range, duration/energy, overlap fields/boons etc  ...
They saw FB, Ren, scourge, scrapper, ..."Hm yeah, one boon with broken mechanic will make elem viable, I feel it"

 

I'm not even mad, I think it has potential as I suggest, but I don't understand how limited they developed it !?

Edited September 25, 2021 by Zhaid Zhem.6508

[Jongi.7612]

I have been trying to get into the elementalist for a long time but it seems so counter productive for many things and catalyst takes it to a whole new level.

 

To get a 4 attunement grand finale you have to ignore the rest of the attunement abilities and for what exactly?

 

Why is there no bleed on Earth Hammer 1? Like... seriously why isnt it there? Just by looking at the attunements fire looks midrange condi, water looks kind of bruiser melee, air looks like midrange power, and earth looks condi as well.

 

Condi application is like non-existent and the damage from Fire and Earth dont make up for it even in a power build. I know numbers can be adjusted but I think they should just quit with damage conditions and power being on the same weapon and then nothing can actually be good on the weapon since its trying to do too much.

 

Also with the stat increase trait, its almost always best to focus on a select few stats to boost up than to spread them thin. 3% increase across 6 stats is worse than a 3% increase to 2 stats since out of those 6 stats only a few are really useful anyways. 

 

 

[Bleikopf.2491]

I don't think Catalys is essentially designed more complicated than core Ele, and not even close to Weaver.
It's just in a strangle-hold from Anet being afraid of Ele being strong. Buffs are all too short to really achieve anything without super tight rotations. They basically sent them into the beta nerfed. Just up the buff uptimes so it's realistically possible to keep them up while focusing on something else than your rotation. Sure, the buffs are strong, but we're post PoF already, everything is strong, and the buffs aren't really that balance breaking anymore.

[AliamRationem.5172]

Next GW2 stream: Okay, guys.  We went back to the drawing board!  Catalyst was a stupid idea.  Sorry about that!  Here's the new elementalist elite spec:  The Faceroller!

Facerollers forgo weapon skills in favor of one big button that just does whatever they need it to do from a safe distance of 5000 range.  It's just like those other specs you've been jealous of for years, but better!

[Einlanzer.1627]

17 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Next GW2 stream: Okay, guys.  We went back to the drawing board!  Catalyst was a stupid idea.  Sorry about that!  Here's the new elementalist elite spec:  The Faceroller!

Facerollers forgo weapon skills in favor of one big button that just does whatever they need it to do from a safe distance of 5000 range.  It's just like those other specs you've been jealous of for years, but better!

I often agree with you, but I don't really agree here. This was not the right direction to take this elite spec.

First of all, most elementalist players favor ranged spellslinging over melee facesmashing - it is actually quite laughably out of touch with the community that they made this a melee hammer spec and moreso that they did so without announcing any updates to the staff to make it more generally useful.

Secondly, there appears to be a disconnect between the theme of the Hammer as a weapon and the theme of the spec itself in terms of how you are intended to interact with the spheres and apply them in fights. It just feels thematically misaligned. This was even alluded to in the livestream where Indigo described that she had a classic wizard in mind when first theming the spec. It really seems like somebody just came along later and randomly said "oh let's go hammer that'll be cool!" and the result is a hot mess of a class. 

Lastly, core elementalist is over-designed from a mechanics perspective. It has terrrible baseline attrition, its range spells (from staff & scepter) are slow and difficult to use properly outside of large group environments, and its melee options don't provide enough sustain without very specialized setups. Adding elite specs that add layers of complexity to the already complex base class, even if it's not as egregious as Weaver, is not the right design approach in most cases. 

Edited September 25, 2021 by Einlanzer.1627

[AliamRationem.5172]

8 minutes ago, Einlanzer.1627 said:

I often agree with you, but I don't really agree here. This was not the right direction to take this elite spec.

First of all, most elementalist players favor ranged spellslinging over melee facesmashing - it is actually quite laughably out of touch with the community that they made this a melee hammer spec and moreso that they did so without announcing any updates to the staff to make it more generally useful.

Secondly, there appears to be a disconnect between the theme of the Hammer as a weapon and the theme of the spec itself in terms of how you are intended to interact with the spheres and apply them in fights. It just feels thematically misaligned. This was even alluded to in the livestream where Indigo described that she had a classic wizard in mind when first theming the spec. It really seems like somebody just came along later and randomly said "oh let's go hammer that'll be cool!" and the result is a hot mess of a class. 

Lastly, core elementalist is over-designed from a mechanics perspective. It has terrrible baseline attrition, its range spells (from staff & scepter) are slow and difficult to use properly outside of large group environments, and its melee options don't provide enough sustain without very specialized setups. Adding elite specs that add layers of complexity to the already complex base class, even if it's not as egregious as Weaver, is not the right design approach in most cases. 

 

I must also disagree.  I've always loved the attunement swapping mechanic with ele and weaver only made it more interesting.  I would not care to see a version of ele that gives that up.  However, I don't mind slower variants like Tempest and I am not against the mage fantasy (I just don't really care for it as melee specs are generally more fun to play!).

This is not a defense of catalyst.  I am not stuck on hammer and I didn't particularly enjoy the feel of the spec when I tried it.  I agree with a lot of the criticisms people have.

 

 

[Loules.8601]

On 9/26/2021 at 1:18 AM, Einlanzer.1627 said:

First of all, most elementalist players favor ranged spellslinging over melee facesmashing - it is actually quite laughably out of touch with the community that they made this a melee hammer spec

Hammer - not melee, for DPS build - it's mostly ranged (even if only with 600 distance)

[Puck.3697]

On 9/25/2021 at 9:46 AM, frareanselm.1925 said:

That's not true, I cannot do Raid content in a engi turret build, for example. The endgame is elitist and if you dont perform you're kicked in most groups.

Dude... 

A raid of level 76 core proffessions cleared every raid in the game. With under 20% boon uptime... 

Your mixing 2 things up here. 

Player mentality V actual requirements. 

Every raid in the game can be done with players doing 20k DPS. To give u a exact example of what that DPS requires. 

Power weaver can do 20k DPS auto attacking in air.

You can do end content with a turret engi build. Will other players accept you as a turret engi. Likely not. But it's very possible. 

Saying "oh the elitists won't let me in the group" doesn't mean the content isn't doable lol, it means player expectations are higher then content requirements. Which is a common thing among pugs across all games. 

Every game has this problem. Not because content requires those things however. Because you effectively make up for the lack of communication and experience together with being over the bar in performance. 

The content is actually very easy, that's just factual. Just because players gatekeep the content doesn't mean it's hard. It simply means the playerbase hold a higher expectation then the game itself does. 

A good example of this would be. 

Shadowlands Launch - 205 ilevel players were managing the content that they now require 225-230 ilevel to complete. Breathe that in for a moment. 

Player perception isn't accurate nor close to the minimum bar, ironically pugs generally require you to be far higher then premade groups do effectively. 

The idea is most players want to clear content in the fastest and easiest path with the highest success rates. Which means players aim to create groups that are above the content their clearing. The fastest kills aren't generated on building what is needed, it's built on what is wanted and what is wanted is generally far above what is actually needed. 

Edited September 27, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Swagg.9236]

The worst part is that nothing that comes out of GW2 is complex; you just have a warehouse of the same main idea that's painted different colors and each arbitrarily assigned better or worse numbers.

[PeerlessArch.6547]

You know, we all wanted Longbow Arcane Archer style, but to he honest concerning these elite specs feeling bad in spvp; I don't think it would be any better for spvp or even wvw, but it would be waaaaay cooler.

I'd rather have a LB AA spec and just play it in PvE then get this trash we were handed.

Edited September 28, 2021 by PeerlessArch.6547

[Puck.3697]

On 9/28/2021 at 12:55 AM, Swagg.9236 said:

The worst part is that nothing that comes out of GW2 is complex; you just have a warehouse of the same main idea that's painted different colors and each arbitrarily assigned better or worse numbers.

im not sure i understand exactly what ur realistically saying here, are u trying tyo say every Proffession and Elite Specc is the same main ideas painted different colours? Lol.

Because i'd Say theres a Complexity difference if u were to compare Power Reaper to Condi Weaver, i mean its Insane if you beleive these are both as Easy to learn and master as one another. i'd argue theres alot of complexity in GW2.. if we were to compare Core guardian to Firebrand theres defintly a Growth in complexity realistically, or Core Mesmer to Chronomancer.