About rewards

[yann.1946]

I've seen a lot of arguments of the type, "content X only get played because of rewards as lots of people stop after getting the rewards Y and Z from it".

This statement completely misses the point of why rewards exist in the first place, as as long as you a person would play it without incentives you do not need rewards.

 

 

The purpose of rewards is always twofold:

-Incentivizing people to play content they normally would not (in the hope that they start enjoying the content)

-Making people play a  part of the game longer then they normally would have.

It is therefore normal that people in general stop playing content ones they got the rewards they want. 

As some examples, The metas that keep being repeated the most give good "gold" rewards ( sometimes hidden in a rare drop) as that is an always usefull reward , After having done the return events people will probably not play the ls maps again if they did not before, etc.

 

 

[Strider Pj.2193]

6 hours ago, yann.1946 said:

 

 

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It is therefore normal that people in general stop playing content ones they got the rewards they want. 

 

 

 

Unless they actually ENJOY the content…….

 

 

[yann.1946]

31 minutes ago, Strider Pj.2193 said:

Unless they actually ENJOY the content…….

 

 

no not really, everyone has a sort of maximum that they can do content even if they enjoy it.

For example i like pasta a lot, but if i had to eat soly pasta for the rest of my life id probably get over it pretty soon.

 

 Or do you think that people will just keep playing the same thing over and over indefinetly? 

[costepj.5120]

I level a human commoner every week and enjoy it. Is that the sort of thing you had in mind?

[Raknar.4735]

16 minutes ago, yann.1946 said:

 Or do you think that people will just keep playing the same thing over and over indefinetly? 

Yes, if it is fun to them.

Examples in GW2: WvW, PvP

Examples in other games that focus on PvP: Summoner‘s Rift, ARAM, CSGO/Valorant/OW matches, Fortnite/BRs etc.

Examples in other games that focus on PvE: 7 Days to Die, any roguelike like binding of isaac/STS, etc.

[yann.1946]

10 minutes ago, Raknar.4735 said:

Yes, if it is fun to them.

Examples in GW2: WvW, PvP

People quit these gamemodes all the time. what are you talking about.

Quote

Examples in other games that focus on PvP: Summoner‘s Rift, ARAM, CSGO/Valorant/OW matches, Fortnite/BRs etc.

Honestly im not familiar with those games, but as far as i know fortnite has a season system where they give different cosmetics rewards to get people to play those seasons.

Quote

Examples in other games that focus on PvE: 7 Days to Die, any roguelike like binding of isaac/STS, etc.

I have not played those games, but tbh i know no one who plays these games indefinitly. Even the most replayable roguelikes.

Edited September 27, 2021 by yann.1946

[costepj.5120]

5 minutes ago, yann.1946 said:

For the blkey you mean?

Then sort of, because its pretty clear that without that reward way less people would level that human commoner every weak for shits and giggles. Would you keep doing it without the bl key, and do you think other people would keep doing it for the enjoyment?

The key is just an excuse. I have a stack of nearly 250 keys that I haven't used because there's nothing in the chests that interests me.

[yann.1946]

2 minutes ago, costepj.5120 said:

The key is just an excuse. I have a stack of nearly 250 keys that I haven't used because there's nothing in the chests that interests me.

That does not really answer the question though.

 Would you keep doing it without the bl key, and do you think other people would keep doing it for the enjoyment without the blkey?

[costepj.5120]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I do it because I enjoy it. I don't need any rewards to play the game. After nine years I have everything I need and play for fun. Honestly, I'd hope that anyone who is still here after nine years is playing for fun. Otherwise, what is the point?

[Raknar.4735]

6 minutes ago, yann.1946 said:

People quit these gamemodes all the time. what are you talking about.

Honestly im not familiar with those games, but as far as i know fortnite has a season system where they give different cosmetics rewards to get people to play those seasons.

I have not played those games, but tbh i now noone who plays these games indefinitly. Even the most replayable roguelikes.

Those who actually enjoy the gamemode stay for the gamemode. See any of the WvWers that stick to it because it is fun, even though they already have everything and are stacking skirmish tickets left and right. So what are you talking about?
 

Figures you‘re not familiar with the rest of the games. Especially those players play to have fun and not for a reward.

[yann.1946]

Just now, Raknar.4735 said:

Those who actually enjoy the gamemode stay for the gamemode. See any of the WvWers that stick to it because it is fun, even though they already have everything and are stacking skirmish tickets left and right. So what are you talking about?
 

Figures you‘re not familiar with the rest of the games. Especially those players play to have fun and not for a reward.

Im pretty baffled tbh, that for some reason you seem to argue that everyone will just play whathever they enjoy indefinitly and apperently never get bored from it. Do you honestly believe that is true?

[Raknar.4735]

Just now, yann.1946 said:

Im pretty baffled tbh, that for some reason you seem to argue that everyone will just play whathever they enjoy indefinitly and apperently never get bored from it. Do you honestly believe that is true?

It is indeed baffling how you moved the goal post from:

„It is therefore normal that people in general stop playing content ones they got the rewards they want“

to

„everyone will just play whathever they enjoy indefinitly and apperently never get bored from it“

But yes, people will play anything even without a reward if it is fun, for as long as it is fun to them. Some people have been playing WC3 since the beginning in 2002 and are still having fun today, 19 years later (even though reforged was a miss).

 

[yann.1946]

4 minutes ago, costepj.5120 said:

I can't speak for anyone else, but I do it because I enjoy it. I don't need any rewards to play the game. After nine years I have everything I need and play for fun. Honestly, I'd hope that anyone who is still here after nine years is playing for fun. Otherwise, what is the point?

I  really would like to have a talk with you, because this probably needs a longer text then i can type but ill try.

 

Do you agree with the following two statements.

-People on average will get bored from a piece of content.

-Rewards adds fun to content on average for people. People will enjoy the pinata slightly more because of the change of the rare infusion then they would otherwise.

 

[Kalocin.5982]

MMOs are basically a loot simulator existing solely to bait you to play as long as possible so the player themselves become an extension of the content. Sounds more pessimistic than the reality but functionally that's how they work

[costepj.5120]

Maybe we're from different generations with different attention spans? I started reading fantasy fiction in my early teens (Stephen Donaldson's Thomas Covenant series just captured my imagination) and I've stuck with the genre ever since. I've started playing pen and paper AD&D, then migrated to computer based games such as Eye of the Beholder and Neverwinter Nights. Flirted with WoW but disliked the subscription model and fetched up in Tyria about 2010. In one sense I've played the same game my whole life.

[yann.1946]

Just now, Raknar.4735 said:

It is indeed baffling how you moved the goal post from:

„It is therefore normal that people in general stop playing content ones they got the rewards they want“

to

„everyone will just play whathever they enjoy indefinitly and apperently never get bored from it“

i havent , ill explain why.

Just now, Raknar.4735 said:

But yes, people will play anything even without a reward if it is fun, for as long as it is fun to them.

Exactly for as long as its fun for them. The whole point i am making is that time it is fun for them gets extended by adding rewards. Do you disagree with that statement?

Thus the moment they have gotten the rewards their will be people who are in the zone where they would enjoyed the content with rewards to chase but not anymore without them. So we will so a drop in players.

Just now, Raknar.4735 said:

Some people have been playing WC3 since the beginning in 2002 and are still having fun today, 19 years later (even though reforged was a miss).

 

Im not disagreeing with that, but thats also completely beside the point im making.

[Fuchslein.8639]

The thing is there will always be outliers. But most people will only do XY if they think it's worth it.

And as you can see here, there will always be people who use these individual cases to drive unnecessary discussions ^^''. And from my point of view, even these exceptions are not exceptions because they also have a reason to do something. Because the joy of XY is their reward.

 

And call me cynical, but I doubt there are many people who would play GW2 purely for the joy of experience and helpfulness. Personally, I would not. Even when I help friends or strangers, I do it because I enjoy it. If I didn't have that "reward", I wouldn't help.

[costepj.5120]

You just need to allow for the fact other people have different motivations to yourself.

Yes we are all here for a "reward", but that could be anything from social interactions with guildies to a sense of achievement when you complete a collection. At the end of the day if the only reward was some pixels on the screen, we'd have to be pretty shallow to keep playing year after year.

[yann.1946]

2 minutes ago, costepj.5120 said:

Maybe we're from different generations with different attention spans? I started reading fantasy fiction in my early teens (Stephen Donaldson's Thomas Covenant series just captured my imagination) and I've stuck with the genre ever since. I've started playing pen and paper AD&D, then migrated to computer based games such as Eye of the Beholder and Neverwinter Nights. Flirted with WoW but disliked the subscription model and fetched up in Tyria about 2010. In one sense I've played the same game my whole life.

This has nothing to do with attention spans though, This is also broader then singular experiences.

My main point is that adding rewards to chase adds enjoyment to the experience for most people (even in the games Raknar gave as counterexamples)

THus the moment someone gets the rewards they want their is a change they fall in the zone where they would have enjoyed it with the chase but not without. Leading to a drop in players at that specific time.

[Raknar.4735]

Just now, yann.1946 said:

i havent , ill explain why.

Exactly for as long as its fun for them. The whole point i am making is that time it is fun for them gets extended by adding rewards. Do you disagree with that statement?

Thus the moment they have gotten the rewards their will be people who are in the zone where they would enjoyed the content with rewards to chase but not anymore without them. So we will so a drop in players.

Im not disagreeing with that, but thats also completely beside the point im making.

If content is fun, content will be played. Adding rewards doesn‘t extend the time content is fun. If content is only done due to the rewards and only them and then left immediately it is just bad content. Content that is fun will still be played even after all the rewards have been gained.

So yes, content will be dropped by some once the rewards have been earned, because the content strictly wasn‘t fun in the first place. It doesn‘t extend the time content is fun, it just extends the tediousness because players feel the need to play content they don‘t enjoy because of how rewarding it is.

My last bit isn‘t besides the point, but actually exactly answers your point about content being played indefinately if it is fun. WC3 is fun for those players, so they keep playing it today, 19 years after the game released.

[yann.1946]

1 minute ago, costepj.5120 said:

You just need to allow for the fact other people have different motivations to yourself.

Yes we are all here for a "reward", but that could be anything from social interactions with guildies to a sense of achievement when you complete a collection. At the end of the day if the only reward was some pixels on the screen, we'd have to be pretty shallow to keep playing year after year.

You really have to explain something to me, where have i suggested that people play exclusively for rewards.

[Sobx.1758]

40 minutes ago, Raknar.4735 said:

Examples in GW2: WvW, PvP

Examples in other games that focus on PvP: Summoner‘s Rift, ARAM, CSGO/Valorant/OW matches, Fortnite/BRs etc.

All of these have reward systems. BRs usually have account-wide systems in the form of cosmetics. Not only that, but you're trying to compare competitive modes with just open world/co-op modes. For a lot of people just winning in a competitive mode is rewarding and a goal in itself -and even with that, those games still have reward systems on top of it.

Edited September 27, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[yann.1946]

5 minutes ago, Raknar.4735 said:

If content is fun, content will be played. Adding rewards doesn‘t extend the time content is fun. If content is only done due to the rewards and only them and then left immediately it is just bad content. Content that is fun will still be played even after all the rewards have been gained.

So yes, content will be dropped by some once the rewards have been earned, because the content strictly wasn‘t fun in the first place. It doesn‘t extend the time content is fun, it just extends the tediousness because players feel the need to play content they don‘t enjoy because of how rewarding it is.

Honestly , This explains why you think what you think. But this is so demonstrably false its hard to engage with.

Edit: Or let me ask you then, why do you think games have rewardssystems.

Quote

My last bit isn‘t besides the point, but actually exactly answers your point about content being played indefinately if it is fun. WC3 is fun for those players, so they keep playing it today, 19 years after the game released.

Its beside the point because im not making an argument from singular experience. Im making a point about motivation to play games in general.

Edited September 27, 2021 by yann.1946

[Raknar.4735]

1 minute ago, yann.1946 said:

Honestly , This explains why you think what you think. But this is so demonstrably false its hard to engage with.

Its beside the point because im not making an argument from singular experience. Im making a point about motivation to play games in general.

Ok, seems we‘re done here then, since you didn‘t actually want a discussion and aren‘t open to any arguments but your own ones.

[yann.1946]

1 minute ago, Raknar.4735 said:

Ok, seems we‘re done here then, since you didn‘t actually want a discussion and aren‘t open to any arguments but your own ones.

I'm really not, you just have not been engaging with my original points at all.

 

Let me ask you then, what do you think is the point of rewards then?

 

Btw, maybe my argument also works for social interactions in games.