Stale meta due to players

[Genesis.5169]

2 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

No one will join my groups and the ones that do can't do t4 fractals.

I got LNHB with a PUG on a dps chrono when they sucked and they still do with my own non meta build...i doubt that.

Edited October 22, 2021 by Genesis.5169

[Aeolus.3615]

On 10/1/2021 at 5:56 PM, Jski.6180 said:

I think removing quickness and alacrity from effect any thing but wepon skills would go a long way to fixing the current meta. Its kind of silly to use alacrity to reduce the cd of your alacrity skill. Its also odd to have quickness make big slow skills that give quickness faster. I also like to see the only way to get quickness and alacrity would be from utility.

 

 That actually would be interesting! 

More from active gameplay rather stack perma boons.

Edited October 22, 2021 by Aeolus.3615

[Mell.4873]

8 hours ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

 

 That actually would be interesting! 

More from active gameplay rather stack perma boons.

I want the opposite I want more boons to be included in concentration. Imagine if Vulture Stance was affected by boon duration, that could be an amazing buff for a 5 man.

[Westenev.5289]

I think the problem is that one player can provide max stats of whatever to a group. For example, a lot of builds can provide alacrity (Revenant) or quickness (Firebrand), so what happens when you get a class that can provide both at a 100% uptime (chronomancer). This is most egregious with might, where basically every class has the ability to hit the 25 might limit. There is no benefit to classes that generate their own might, or to stack classes that produce it, since one player is likely already broadcasting 25 might to the group.

 

Plus, a group has limited health, and Anet is fond of big health bars and big damage, so stacking healers in a group and turtling a boss is never going to be a viable strategy.

 

I think if we're ever going to see original player driven meta's, we need Anet to design combat in a way that isn't so linear (Mechanics + DPS > Everything Else).

[Nephalem.8921]

On 10/18/2021 at 7:27 PM, Genesis.5169 said:

Hey OP can you tell me what stops you from making your own group and playing with like minded people.

2h+ fractal clears stop him. The like minded people would be just as bad so who is supposed to carry the group if none is playing a good dps build?

There is a reason why staff mirage is bad outside of 100 in fractals. You will do almost nothing to trash and most bosses.

[sporkles.6413]

On 9/30/2021 at 2:52 PM, Mell.4873 said:

since they are scared you will suck.

It also have to do with the fact that fractal is restricted by 5 men, so usually one person have to take on more than one responsibilities (stability, protection, might, alac, quick, reflect etc....). I assume you're playing in pugs where dps usually only dps and nothing else, in swapping support you'll likely be missing one of the crucial component to the comp unless you have someone else in the team take it. Since fractal is also a daily thing, people also just want to clear fast and don't have to spend time working out who's taking what. And groups that lack those important buffs and utils can take too long clear especially if your team lacks experience.

 

But I agree that experimenting with comps with super fun, but it's hard to find the right people

[Mell.4873]

8 hours ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

2h+ fractal clears stop him. The like minded people would be just as bad so who is supposed to carry the group if none is playing a good dps build?

There is a reason why staff mirage is bad outside of 100 in fractals. You will do almost nothing to trash and most bosses.

They do more damage than alacRen. I sit normally around 60% of top dps on a staff mirage

[Vidit.7108]

A lot of this topic is overfocused on alacrity/quickness, which is a very dps-er mindset. They help with dps but that's only generally true. Those boons don't benefit all builds equally. The more dps skills you have on cooldown the more alacrity is important to you. The more chained skills and combos you need to do the more important quickness is. In the right set up neither is really necessary if you can one burst a boss or reload before the next CC. What is actually necessary for a 5-man fractal group is 25 stacks of might (vulnerability too but that's less of an issue), fury, and stability.

If the healbrand couldn't do quickness firebrand would still be a major part of fractal group comps and possibly still required. Why? Because core Guardian has very high stability upkeep. Firebrand can upkeep fury and 25 stacks of might on it's own. Not as cleanly as staff mirage can with might but I do it all the time. With it's mantras and it's books it can upkeep resolution (or protection but not really both at the same time on top of other boons) and stability. The only class that really matches the stability of firebrand is Renegade, which one reason why they get paired together, you can actually kit out a dps firebrand with quickness and a heal alac ren just fine.

Scourge could probably substitute the Firebrand Aegis nicely but it's stability upkeep isn't great. Druid is tacked onto a dps core class and basically has none, spotter isn't all that important to fractals because of mist potions. Tempest has a lot of it's stab on overload cooldown which just doesn't cut it. 

Fractal design has gotten more treacherous over time. T4 has a lot of knockbacks that aren't in the other tiers. Instabilities are kind of ridiculous now which is why Aegis is so valued. Some say mechanics are being trivialized, these are all people who have their dailies going perfectly. This last month at least a 4th of all the Scourges I've pugged t4 dailies with have refused to be in range of my boons and are doing trash dps as a result. So I don't agree with that.

Edited October 24, 2021 by Vidit.7108

[Nephalem.8921]

On 10/24/2021 at 1:26 AM, Mell.4873 said:

They do more damage than alacRen. I sit normally around 60% of top dps on a staff mirage

I wanna see you doing 14k dps on mama. 8k on skorvald. those are ok alacren numbers. Maybe you just play with bad players? the ones the other groups try to filter with those lfgs.

[Mell.4873]

On 10/25/2021 at 10:31 AM, Vidit.7108 said:

A lot of this topic is overfocused on alacrity/quickness, which is a very dps-er mindset. They help with dps but that's only generally true. Those boons don't benefit all builds equally. The more dps skills you have on cooldown the more alacrity is important to you. The more chained skills and combos you need to do the more important quickness is. In the right set up neither is really necessary if you can one burst a boss or reload before the next CC. What is actually necessary for a 5-man fractal group is 25 stacks of might (vulnerability too but that's less of an issue), fury, and stability.

If the healbrand couldn't do quickness firebrand would still be a major part of fractal group comps and possibly still required. Why? Because core Guardian has very high stability upkeep. Firebrand can upkeep fury and 25 stacks of might on it's own. Not as cleanly as staff mirage can with might but I do it all the time. With it's mantras and it's books it can upkeep resolution (or protection but not really both at the same time on top of other boons) and stability. The only class that really matches the stability of firebrand is Renegade, which one reason why they get paired together, you can actually kit out a dps firebrand with quickness and a heal alac ren just fine.

Scourge could probably substitute the Firebrand Aegis nicely but it's stability upkeep isn't great. Druid is tacked onto a dps core class and basically has none, spotter isn't all that important to fractals because of mist potions. Tempest has a lot of it's stab on overload cooldown which just doesn't cut it. 

Fractal design has gotten more treacherous over time. T4 has a lot of knockbacks that aren't in the other tiers. Instabilities are kind of ridiculous now which is why Aegis is so valued. Some say mechanics are being trivialized, these are all people who have their dailies going perfectly. This last month at least a 4th of all the Scourges I've pugged t4 dailies with have refused to be in range of my boons and are doing trash dps as a result. So I don't agree with that.

This is exactly why I say other classes can fill these roles I mean any distortion for mesmer can provide aoe aegis (trait) and chaos storm is amazing at granted aegis. 

Druid can grant alot of stability with natural convergence aswell as the spirit of nature which can be kept alive with heals the entire fight.

 

I have run both of these classes cm just find, it's more about knowing the mechanics rather than anything else. I mean most cm's don't have dps checks. 

[Vidit.7108]

1 hour ago, Mell.4873 said:

Druid can grant alot of stability with natural convergence aswell as the spirit of nature which can be kept alive with heals the entire fight.

A lot of stability as compared to what? Core Revenant can upkeep stability on it's own with alacrity and full boon duration. Core Guardian can upkeep at least 1 stack of stability for half the fight. A firebrand without any alacrity can have one stack of stability up forever. Not that it would need to but a firebrand can put out about 15 stacks of stability out all at once. 

Neither class needs to leave celestial avatar or worry about a spirit dying.

[Mell.4873]

15 minutes ago, Vidit.7108 said:

A lot of stability as compared to what? Core Revenant can upkeep stability on it's own with alacrity and full boon duration. Core Guardian can upkeep at least 1 stack of stability for half the fight. A firebrand without any alacrity can have one stack of stability up forever. Not that it would need to but a firebrand can put out about 15 stacks of stability out all at once. 

Neither class needs to leave celestial avatar or worry about a spirit dying.

True but I'm all I'm saying is there are other options. I main ranger and mesmer and would be useless playing anything else just to try and conform to the meta. I don't play enough to learn other classes.

 

When I join a cm as a dps I normally offer to heal or alac and we normally win when I do preform these roles (except cm 100 due to hard mechanics). 

 

I mean mantra chrono can burst heal more than any class in the game, even druid.

[Mell.4873]

On 10/26/2021 at 3:45 AM, Nephalem.8921 said:

I wanna see you doing 14k dps on mama. 8k on skorvald. those are ok alacren numbers. Maybe you just play with bad players? the ones the other groups try to filter with those lfgs.

Yup that is possible.