coalescence is ridiculous

[Astralporing.1957]

1 minute ago, Sobx.1758 said:

But they don't need to avoid the pve options, they just mostly refuse to complete the content by their own choice.

I did not say they need to. It's just that for most PvE players picking a non-PvE option in this case is a far better choice.

[Sobx.1758]

1 minute ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

I did not say they need to. It's just that for most PvE players picking a non-PvE option in this case is a far better choice.

I disagree (and we already know that from previous thread/s), but they're free to make that choice if they want to.

Edited October 25, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Astralporing.1957]

1 minute ago, Sobx.1758 said:

I disagree, but they're free to make that choice if they want to.

Like they're free to repeatedly hit the wall with their head if they want to. That does not mean it's a good choice however. Most people should probably be advised to pick some other option instead.

Edited October 25, 2021 by Astralporing.1957

[Sobx.1758]

1 minute ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Like they're free to hit the wall with their head if they want to. That does not mean it's a good choice however.

Awful attempt at making a comparison that has noting to do with what is being discussed here.

Edited October 25, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Linken.6345]

11 minutes ago, Arnox.5128 said:

Ok, man. OP aside, I gotta say something about this. Yes, you ARE being locked out of content in the game if you don't grind for a legendary. Specifically functionality. Specifically the ability to change stats on the fly. And don't give me that, "Oh you can just use Ascended and change the stats with those." One, it costs money, even if just a little bit. Two, you gotta obtain a certain material. And three, you gotta be at the Mystic Toliet to do so. It's still really annoying and restrictive. Locking the majority of players out of flexible builds because they didn't grind for 50,000 hours to get legendaries is b******* and should never have been put into the game.

Now, with that said, it's way too late to change things now, but regardless, let's not pretend that this isn't an issue.

About having to be at the mystic forge you do know about the item you can make right?

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Forge_Conduit_(container)

[Astralporing.1957]

4 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Awful attempt at a comparison that has noting to do with what is being discussed here.

Well, if there are two options, and for most people one is way worse than the other, then sure, picking between those two is still a choice people are free to make. That won;t make that option any better for those people, though.

And my point was, that for a huge majority of PvE players, the only PvE option is vastly inferior compared to the WvW one. Which should probably never happen. If there are paths to something through multiple modes, players of said modes should not be heavily encouraged to ignore the one in their own mode and go to other modes instead.

Edited October 25, 2021 by Astralporing.1957

[Sobx.1758]

5 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Well, if there are two options, and for most people one is way worse than the other, then sure, picking between those two is still a choice people are free to make. That won;t make that option any better for those people, though.

And my point was, that for a huge majority of PvE players, the only PvE option is vastly inferior compared to the WvW one. Which should probably never happen.

Only if those people don't want to understand/learn the game, which is not as much of a fault of getting optional legendary gear through harder content (which, really, shouldn't be surprising to absolutely anyone) as it is the fault of a badly designed wvw reward system that rewards semi-afking. Reward system that's harder to solve due to the nature of the mode, but it doesn't mean it should suddenly be the norm where better reward systems are possible due to not being a competitive mode. For me it's without a change: want the rewards? Learn and complete the content. Don't want to? Your choice.

Edited October 25, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[genjonah.1253]

Ascended level stats aren’t even required for raid training groups, you can get by with exotic. So complaining about not being able to use legendary functionality is the essence of entitlement. No one is locked out of any content without legendary gear. No one is locked out of any content without ascended gear. No one is locked out of any content using exotic gear. Legendary non armor gear costs roughly 1500g plus (that’s on the low end). For the same price, you can make 30+ ascended pieces. 
 

those who do make legendary equipment ABSOLUTELY SHOULD have access to the ‘convenience’ of stat switching and no one else should. Saying otherwise is, again, maximum entitlement in a game that doesn’t even require those max stats

[Linken.6345]

22 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Well, if there are two options, and for most people one is way worse than the other, then sure, picking between those two is still a choice people are free to make. That won;t make that option any better for those people, though.

And my point was, that for a huge majority of PvE players, the only PvE option is vastly inferior compared to the WvW one. Which should probably never happen. If there are paths to something through multiple modes, players of said modes should not be heavily encouraged to ignore the one in their own mode and go to other modes instead.

Its nice that  we already have multiple modes for most then so people can chose right?

Accept accessories.

[Shadowmoon.7986]

Get good or do the afk in wvw ring. 

[Arnox.5128]

1 hour ago, Linken.6345 said:

About having to be at the mystic forge you do know about the item you can make right?

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Forge_Conduit_(container)

A bandage on the problem that costs 150 gold extra. Putting the problem aside though, I'll grant it is kinda cool for other purposes.

 

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

When did I say "DEAL WITH IT"? And why are you bringing up any illness to this? Cheap emotional points? No, thanks. Please respond to what I wrote instead (or don't, your choice, but doing what you just did above isn't responding to anything). I've played with ascended for a long time (and still do to some extent) and I was (and still am) perfectly fine. Don't try to tell me using ascended gear is suddenly such an awful punishment/pain or whatever you're trying to imply here, it just isn't.

OK, I admit you didn't deserve that extra heat I had in my second post. Regardless though, there is an objective and marked difference in functionality between Ascended and Legendary.

Edited October 25, 2021 by Arnox.5128

[Despot.3048]

In the amount of time you take to make coalescence you could easily have thousands of Winterberries and Unbound magic. 

18 minutes ago, Arnox.5128 said:

OK, I admit you didn't deserve that extra heat I had in my second post. Regardless though, there is an objective and marked difference in functionality between Ascended and Legendary.

And again. You don't need the Legendary. There are far faster and easier ways to get rings with stats that you need. 

Personally I won't be doing coalescence anytime soon, I'm familiar with wings 1-4 but have not enough time to invest into learning Dhuum when I could just do WvW and slowly accumulate tickets for Conflux. 

[Arnox.5128]

13 minutes ago, Despot.3048 said:

In the amount of time you take to make coalescence you could easily have thousands of Winterberries and Unbound magic. 

And again. You don't need the Legendary. There are far faster and easier ways to get rings with stats that you need. 

Personally I won't be doing coalescence anytime soon, I'm familiar with wings 1-4 but have not enough time to invest into learning Dhuum when I could just do WvW and slowly accumulate tickets for Conflux. 

The problem isn't getting Exotic or even Ascended. The problem is switching builds conveniently for free and unrestricted by location. A feature that, I might add, was given to everyone in GW1 already but was stupidly pulled out and put into legendaries exclusively in GW2.

Edited October 25, 2021 by Arnox.5128

[Sobx.1758]

52 minutes ago, Arnox.5128 said:

OK, I admit you didn't deserve that extra heat I had in my second post. Regardless though, there is an objective and marked difference in functionality between Ascended and Legendary.

Sure, if there wasn't that difference, then legendary wouldn't be worth the price/effort it's currently worth. I still hold the opinion that there's a reason they've decided to add the armory -and that's to increase usefulness of the gear that was barely worth the effort before that. If people had to keep swapping legendary gear between characters, it was just better/easier to make multiple ascended gear sets and keep swapping them between characters instead.

And I still don't see how it changes anything about what I said there. Anyone who thinks legendary items aren't wroth the effort, can just continue playing with ascended gear and be perfectly fine. It's not some "workaround", it's not "punishment" or "deal with it with some extra steps". There's no content in the game that somehow can't be completed -or is vastly harder to complete- because of lack of legendary gear. And that's what I was -and still am- saying there.

Edited October 25, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Arnox.5128]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Sure, if there wasn't that difference, then legendary wouldn't be worth the price/effort it's currently worth.

 

I highly disagree. There's many ways they could have differentiated legendaries from other items without taking away basic functionality, but even if they didn't do any of those things, legendaries would still hold their value as a status symbol. A bada** aesthetic symbol that you are not just a true fan of Guild Wars but are a full-on dyed-in-the-wool veteran. (You kinda have to be to get one.) That alone will be reason enough to get them. And yeah, you would see less people getting legendaries most likely if this were the case, but maybe that's how it should be anyway. When you see a legendary, you should go, "Holy f***, that guy's a GW2 master and devotee. They didn't get that weapon because they had to for the functionality, but because they just care that much for the game and love the unique look." And you do sorta say that now as well, at least with the gen. 2 legendaries, but even so, it's hampered somewhat by the fact that you do see them around a fair amount nowadays.

Edited October 26, 2021 by Arnox.5128

[Astralporing.1957]

9 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

Its nice that  we already have multiple modes for most then so people can chose right?

Yes. It's nice. It's not nice that for most PvE players, their primary mode is the worse alternative.

[Omega.6801]

If you don't want to do the things to get the thing you might not "deserve" the thing others have done the things for.

[Cyninja.2954]

2 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Yes. It's nice. It's not nice that for most PvE players, their primary mode is the worse alternative.

 

Must be a nice luxury when you at least have a "worse" alternative.

Still waiting on those worse alternatives for most legendary gear in Spvp and WvW because as it stands right now, most of those modes have no alternative to many predominantly PvE legendary slots.

That said, lucky enough that the solution to this issue can be as easy as: pay a guild to get you the kill if you are not willing to put in the effort yourself @TC.

Edited October 26, 2021 by Cyninja.2954

[Sobx.1758]

12 hours ago, Arnox.5128 said:

I highly disagree. There's many ways they could have differentiated legendaries from other items without taking away basic functionality, but even if they didn't do any of those things, legendaries would still hold their value as a status symbol. A bada** aesthetic symbol that you are not just a true fan of Guild Wars but are a full-on dyed-in-the-wool veteran. (You kinda have to be to get one.) That alone will be reason enough to get them. And yeah, you would see less people getting legendaries most likely if this were the case, but maybe that's how it should be anyway. When you see a legendary, you should go, "Holy f***, that guy's a GW2 master and devotee. They didn't get that weapon because they had to for the functionality, but because they just care that much for the game and love the unique look." And you do sorta say that now as well, at least with the gen. 2 legendaries, but even so, it's hampered somewhat by the fact that you do see them around a fair amount nowadays.

You highly disagree and think it should be hard to get just for the skin and yet it was still decided to buff the gear perceived worth by introducing armory because it was barely worth the effort before that, as well as there are people (like in this thread) that keep complaining about it being too hard to get those items. So... sorry, but somehow I don't think you're too accurate with your assessment here.

Edited October 26, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Astralporing.1957]

4 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Must be a nice luxury when you at least have a "worse" alternative.

Ah yes, the "it's okay, because others have it even worse" defence. Hint: others having it even worse does not make things better.

4 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Still waiting on those worse alternatives for most legendary gear in Spvp and WvW because as it stands right now, most of those modes have no alternative to many predominantly PvE legendary slots.

By "many" you mean two, right? Weapons, remember, are straight out buyable. Backpacks, rings, armor and amulet have their own PvP options (with PvE amulet not being released yet, btw). Only Aurora and Vision so far have no alternative (and i'm quite sure it is "so far", and there will be PvP options for those). Besides, look above - all that it means is that there should be more alternatives than we already have.

4 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

That said, lucky enough that the solution to this issue can be as easy as: pay a guild to get you the kill if you are not willing to put in the effort yourself @TC.

Ah yes, solution to a problem is to support a degenerate form of play. Riiiight.

[Cyninja.2954]

53 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Ah yes, the "it's okay, because others have it even worse" defence. Hint: others having it even worse does not make things better.

By "many" you mean two, right? Weapons, remember, are straight out buyable.

Not gen2, at least not the initial 5.

As far as gen1, yes those are buy-able but are still acquired for a majority in PvE.

Quote

Backpacks, rings, armor and amulet have their own PvP options (with PvE amulet not being released yet, btw).

No, Spvp has an Amulet, WvW has the rings. Neither mode, and those are separate modes, has access to both.

Quote

Only Aurora and Vision so far have no alternative (and i'm quite sure it is "so far", and there will be PvP options for those).

Sure, sometime in the future at a not currently specified time. Meanwhile we already know that a legendary amulet is coming to PvE.

Quote

Besides, look above - all that it means is that there should be more alternatives than we already have.

Ah yes, solution to a problem is to support a degenerate form of play. Riiiight.

Yes, that's all I was getting at: before we start complaining about access to specific legendary item slots maybe bringing all game modes up to par would be a better idea.

As far as degenerate: I might not agree with raid selling myself, it IS an option though. In this case it's not even that expensive.

The main approach should be to master the content behind which this reward is set. I'd personally be perfectly fine with players not being allowed to "buy" raid kills and actually be required to "get gud", but that is just me.

Edited October 26, 2021 by Cyninja.2954

[Astralporing.1957]

23 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Not gen2, at least not the initial 5.

You were talking about slots, not items.

23 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Yes, that's all I was getting at: before we start complaining about access to specific legendary item slots maybe bringing all game modes up to par would be a better idea.

Sure, we can improve other things as well, but, as they say "better is the enemy of good enough". We should not stop ourselves from trying to improve game in many different ways just because some other improvements might be "better". Because that way we'll never get anything done.

 

23 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

As far as degenerate: I might not agree with raid selling myself, it IS an option though. In this case it's not even that expensive.

It is not an option that should ever be promoted, though.

23 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

The main approach should be to master the content behind which this reward is set. I'd personally be perfectly fine with players not being allowed to "buy" raid kills and actually be required to "get gud", but that is just me.

Well, the approach is not to "get gud". It's to go to WvW.

[Sobx.1758]

6 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Well, the approach is not to "get gud". It's to go to WvW.

Which is actually the "degenerate form" of rewarding semi-afking and yet that's what you're bringing up as a better option. People were aware of how crap that reward system is long before there was any legendary armor available in the first place. Putting a supposedly somewhat prestigious "endgame" (yet far from required for anything) rewards behind that system was a mistake -but it's a mistake that's hard to replace with anything more fair. That's not the issue in co-op pve mode, where you can just understand the game's mechanics, learn the content and complete it to get what you want.

Edited October 26, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Arnox.5128]

5 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

You highly disagree and think it should be hard to get just for the skin and yet it was still decided to buff the gear perceived worth by introducing armory because it was barely worth the effort before that, as well as there are people (like in this thread) that keep complaining about it being too hard to get those items. So... sorry, but somehow I don't think you're too accurate with your assessment here.

I don't care for bandwagon arguments. Also, the legendary armory is to make them more convenient to store and configure across characters. Also, ANet can make bad decisions. Like, for example, what we've been discussing this entire time. Locking core build functionality behind a legendary grind.

Edited October 26, 2021 by Arnox.5128

[Sobx.1758]

28 minutes ago, Arnox.5128 said:

I don't care for bandwagon arguments.

I don't understand. I mean, I'm pretty sure I understand what this sentence means, but I don't understand how it's relevant in context of the previous message/s, can you explain?

Quote

Also, the legendary armory is to make them more convenient to store and configure across characters.

Yes, which increases the perceived value of the gear, which is exactly what I was writing about.

Quote

Also, ANet can make bad decisions.

Yes, they can, but I don't think this one was wrong, because before that the legendary gear was really barely worth going for (which, again, is what I wrote before and what is a big reason for why I think your take on it was not accurate at all).

Quote

Like, for example, what we've been discussing this entire time. Locking core build functionality behind a legendary grind.

How is this a "core build functionality"? It clearly isn't, I've been playing with exotics/ascended items for a long time, I'm still playing with partially ascended gear and I don't see the problem. Just because you think it should be core doesn't make it core.

Edited October 26, 2021 by Sobx.1758