Is Renegade forever locked as support?

[Joxer.6024]

I enjoy Revenant, loved it since it first came out and also the renegade. But having been gone for 5 yrs things have changed and it seems like all I see is Rev being used as an alacbot. Now granted, this is a great thing for the group but like Chrono was a slave to being a tank years ago is this the ONLY role for a Revenant, or can one run a power build, so fun!...or condi, so much damage!, and not be kicked from any groups for choosing such?  

[draxynnic.3719]

Short answer: No.

Slightly longer answer: Condi renegade has a DPS benchmark of ~40kDPS in ideal raid conditions, which seems to be pretty close to the line that ArenaNet considers to be "too good". You'll probably be expected to run alacrity if it's not available, but if alacrity is already present, people shouldn't turn down condi renegade for condi DPS unless the boss is one where Torment has reduced value.

Power revenant is a bit lower in the order at about 35kDPS. It's not bad, but it's not generally going to be what people are going to take if they're just looking to maximise DPS.

It's just that people are going to want alacrity first, since that generally increases everyone's damage, survivability, and the effect of other supports to create a net benefit greater than another pure DPS. So if you rock up to group PvE with a revenant and they don't have alacrity covered, that's going to be the first thing they're going to ask about. Similar to if you rock up with a guardian and the group doesn't already have Quickness covered.

Edited November 11, 2021 by draxynnic.3719

[Joxer.6024]

15 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Short answer: No.

Slightly longer answer: Condi renegade has a DPS benchmark of ~40kDPS in ideal raid conditions, which seems to be pretty close to the line that ArenaNet considers to be "too good". You'll probably be expected to run alacrity if it's not available, but if alacrity is already present, people shouldn't turn down condi renegade for condi DPS unless the boss is one where Torment has reduced value.

Power revenant is a bit lower in the order at about 35kDPS. It's not bad, but it's not generally going to be what people are going to take if they're just looking to maximise DPS.

It's just that people are going to want alacrity first, since that generally increases everyone's damage, survivability, and the effect of other supports to create a net benefit greater than another pure DPS. So if you rock up to group PvE with a revenant and they don't have alacrity covered, that's going to be the first thing they're going to ask about. Similar to if you rock up with a guardian and the group doesn't already have Quickness covered.

cheers, and quick question then. For one picking up the class again how "hard" is it to run the alac build? I mean is all you are doing is hitting one skill, if so that kinda blows?

[draxynnic.3719]

Your rotation is very similar to the rotation for the DPS spec of the same type of damage, the main difference (apart from the trait) being that you need to always make sure you have 20 energy available when F4 comes off cooldown.

 

It's worth noting that alacrigade is a bit of a hybrid between DPS and support, and not full support. You're still expected to pull roughly 75% of the DPS of a dedicated DPS spec. Heal alacrigade does exist, but it's not commonly used.

[Joxer.6024]

10 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

It's worth noting that alacrigade is a bit of a hybrid between DPS and support, and not full support. You're still expected to pull roughly 75% of the DPS of a dedicated DPS spec. Heal alacrigade does exist, but it's not commonly used.

ok, now that gives me hope!  😉

[genjonah.1253]

I know this isn’t raid related, but shortbow renegade does wonderfully in WvW in PvP if you know what you’re doing. I roam and duel with a large win percentage using it myself 

[Telgum.6071]

Renegade? Locked as support? In which parallel reality?

[Asum.4960]

Renegade is arguably the best DPS in the game, staple as Alac Support, the best solo spec in the game by far and has been pretty consistently good to way overpeforming in PvP. 

 

I'd go as far as saying it's the strongest spec in the game over all (it's just a bit more subtle about it's strengths than say Firebrand or Scourge).

[frareanselm.1925]

In wvw I see renes roaming and they're overpowered!

In pve open world and dungeons power rene is the bomb, and in complex bosses or raids the condi version is king.

[ArthurDent.9538]

Dps ren is fine, dps herald on the other hand is seemingly perma screwed.

[genjonah.1253]

9 hours ago, ArthurDent.9538 said:

Dps ren is fine, dps herald on the other hand is seemingly perma screwed.

Agreed. Herald is in waaaaay more of a position for a massive adjustment. Call me basic, but I love the aesthetic of the good old sword and shield. I hate that A) it’s locked behind an elite specialization for my favorite class, and B) even if using that class, it’s pretty terrible (I have to get by on my Guardian to scratch that itch, but even then it’s nowhere’s close to a meta combo)

 

Renegade, on the other hand, is pretty much in a perfect state where it is. I will highly disagree that it is overpowered (seven shot is powerful, yes, but only if it hits, and that is the biggest ‘if’ in the game currently, though I imagine the bladesworn is going to take that title over), and it takes a lot of getting used to and such, but it has a solid, A or B-list spot in pretty much all it’s niches- roaming, power dps, condi dps, boon support, heal support, etc., and is balanced well in that picking one of those roles appropriately downgrades your ability to do any of the other roles so it isn’t a ‘you can only play renegades in our raid group’ by any means

[Zenith.7301]

Until they make Herald not a garbage support, as ironically Renegade does the support function better than the actual support spec...

The shield for herald needs retooling. The shield 4 needs to give more boons than just prot, at longer duration, and either shield 4 or shield 5 need to give aegis while shield 5 needs to be made like Shield of Absorption, projectile reflect with pulsing stability and heal.

Then the facets need retooling, so the activation is worthwhile to give a burst of strong boons or effects.

Hell, the Herald facets are a perfect candidate for being an alternative to warrior banners so there is an alternative to warrior banners, which currently does not exist.

They then need to fix Ventari so it's able to maintain alacrity on its own without needing Renegade to do so. Increase alacrity per pulse to 8 seconds, or make it 6 seconds for any ventari skill use.

Remove the garbage orb gimmicks and give back regen application on tablet pulse trait.

Reduce or remove the energy costs of staff.

Edited November 16, 2021 by Zenith.7301