Harbinger!

[Morde.3158]

So um from testing harbinger I can only ask for one thing can shroud get a lower shroud cooldown this time around? this class no blocks besides the one ageis on the elite no evades besides the one  leap and it seems to be the empowered leap now. Not sure the goal is for harbinger in wvw this time around is it a skirmishing class or what? Because if it is we need more ways to survive like the other Shadow arts perma stealth perma run away builds perma super speed 10k ranger blocks and healing other classes have. I feel like I will be using Death magic 100% of the time. You took away what was strong about necro without really balancing it and then you found away to introduce the same struggles that necro has had from launch in a different way with every expansion. We get a pistol main hand and then shroud auto is ranged and now we can pop bottles and crack other players up side the head with the bottles and allot more damage but, no shroud and even worse build diversity this time around and , no im not just about to put on full cele and or run trailblazer.

[Infusion.7149]

What would a lower shroud cooldown really achieve though? You aren't using shroud defensively.

Harbinger shroud needs its mobility restored and more ways to drop blight. Since dropping enough blight also potentially drops you out of shroud the primary concern is the blight payoff and whether you are able to leave harbinger shroud while CC-ed. If you are CC-ed and can't use utility or "F" skills unlike scourge then there needs to be the ability to dump blight in shroud even while CC-ed, if you can't stunbreak.

I don't believe you'll be using Death Magic for Unholy Sanctuary as that is counterproductive , the carapace stacking isn't helpful to condition damage and power builds on harbinger aren't that great. One of the niche WvW builds right now is power reaper with death magic for example, as opposed to PVP necros which normally run blood magic. For WvW (roaming) specifically because torment makes such a large portion of harbinger DPS you can probably run tormenting runes. In large group scenarios you would not run harbinger because it doesn't have a strong power build.

Edited January 25, 2022 by Infusion.7149

[Svarty.8019]

The combat system is all rubbish. 

 

The core mechanics of the classes ruin the balance to such a degree that no amount of number-tweaking will ever fix this crap.

[Shroud.2307]

With the changes made to it last beta, it became a lot better. But they still need to completely rework the Blight mechanic because right now, it doesn't make any sense.

You want Blight for more damage, but your main damage kit, Shroud, cleanses it. 

Harbinger has potential for very rapid Condi application or close range Power burst, has moderate mobility, and can better take advantage of Siphons or being healed by not needing to worry of Shroud blocking that income. 
But the mechanics are confused with a disproportionately punishing theme yet also making it difficult to take advantage of the reward the mechanic offers.

I think the spec has a lot of potential, but ANet really needs to do something for it to make it desirable over the other Necro specs. As is, it's just core Necro on crack - attacks faster and burns out faster. 

[Bale.3851]

21 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

What would a lower shroud cooldown really achieve though? You aren't using shroud defensively.

 Well you could leave shroud, use a stunbreak/worm port and move back into shroud to kite more. Surely you need to put a cd of 10 sec on traits that trigger on going in shroud/leaving shroud. But thats easy and it would generally help harbinger to be more mobile. Also you would have a higher skill celing with good players keeping track of shroud abilities. So over all i think this would be a good change.

 

22 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

arbinger shroud needs its mobility restored and more ways to drop blight. Since dropping enough blight also potentially drops you out of shroud the primary concern is the blight payoff and whether you are able to leave harbinger shroud while CC-ed. If you are CC-ed and can't use utility or "F" skills unlike scourge then there needs to be the ability to dump blight in shroud even while CC-ed, if you can't stunbreak.

I agree more interaction with blight would be welcomed. This would also increase the skill celing of harbinger with good players keeping track of cds/positioning and blight stacks. Maybe add a stunbreak on implaceable foe on a 30 sec cd. Would help the fast paced gameplay.

[Morde.3158]

On 1/25/2022 at 11:31 AM, Infusion.7149 said:

What would a lower shroud cooldown really achieve though? You aren't using shroud defensively.

Harbinger shroud needs its mobility restored and more ways to drop blight. Since dropping enough blight also potentially drops you out of shroud the primary concern is the blight payoff and whether you are able to leave harbinger shroud while CC-ed. If you are CC-ed and can't use utility or "F" skills unlike scourge then there needs to be the ability to dump blight in shroud even while CC-ed, if you can't stunbreak.

I don't believe you'll be using Death Magic for Unholy Sanctuary as that is counterproductive , the carapace stacking isn't helpful to condition damage and power builds on harbinger aren't that great. One of the niche WvW builds right now is power reaper with death magic for example, as opposed to PVP necros which normally run blood magic. For WvW (roaming) specifically because torment makes such a large portion of harbinger DPS you can probably run tormenting runes. In large group scenarios you would not run harbinger because it doesn't have a strong power build.

Death magic will be standard on harbinger if you want some survive, if i'm not mistaken life from death isn't working correctly on blood magic and there is no telling when they will fix it so that may not be an option. Also blood magic is not taken for heals anymore its taken for the condition remove life stealing for sustain is not good vs good players it may work in team comps but its not good vs players you cant hit. the problem with harbinger is not the blight its the healing and since you agreee that harbinger will not be meta for groups and its more of a solo class then you should agree that it needs more things like other skirmish solo classes.

Edited January 26, 2022 by Morde.3158

[Morde.3158]

To the ones who disagree with what I'm saying did you actually test harbinger both betas? Did you test all of the build options and also did you try 1v1s and teamfights and zerg fights as power? I dont want to hear anything about condition damage output.

[Infusion.7149]

I tried it both betas. Even in PVE where the numbers aren't gutted power is not a strong archetype, it peaks at about 26K DPS.
In WVW harbinger power coefficients are underwhelming as well because only harbinger shroud 2 really is applicable for ranged damage beyond the auto so you end up being a glass melee spec. If you run power harbinger as opposed to condition harbinger you pulse cripple rather than weakness which means your ability to mitigate damage passively while in near melee range is more or less non-existent. I guess that is why you feel death magic is necessary even though it is merely 100 toughness unless you run a minion based build (power builds don't output enough poison for Putrid Defense). Even if you run Corrupter's Fervor (which is ~600 toughness with 30 stacks of carapace and requires a ramp up) or Unholy Sanctuary (1% health gain per second is regen boon level of 200-300 health if you have 20-30K health and potentially lethal if triggered inadvertently) it doesn't change the mobility deficit that occurred in the final patch we saw that hampers any build using power.

Harbinger Shroud

• Tainted Bolts / auto = 0.66 coefficient dual hit, which is barely better than Death Shroud given the cast time but performs better versus aegis as due to dual hit you still get half the damage but keep in mind it is projectile
• Dark Barrage = 2.0 , which is the only consistently decent ranged damage on it but it requires hitting with nearly all 6 hits otherwise it is worse than auto attack due to cast time (2 times 0.33 = 0.66). The spread occurs around 600 range or so and it is projectile.
• Devouring Cut = 1.0 and 2.0 if over 5 blight,  is mainly for mobility as damage is at landing location even though reduced to a 600 range leap. The advantage over core necro is you don't need a target so you gain mobility outside of combat.
• Voracious Arc = 1.4 with daze and 2.8 if over 10 blight however it was reduced to 600 range ; in reality it will probably be reduced to 0.01 coefficient due to the hard CC which means torment will end up the primary damage output and unlike in PVE it has 18s cooldown
• Vital Draw = 0.01 coefficient due to the float (hard CC) , which isn't as strong as immob in WVW whereas in PVP the daze is probably stronger

Pistol

• Vicious Shot = 0.233 coefficient , which is lower than scepter and is projectile
• Weeping Shots = 1.02 coefficient, which is extremely bad considering a 1.25s cast time
• Vile Blast = 0.01 coefficient which is not damage per say, hard CC

Meanwhile you can just use axe with CC on your offhand via warhorn. Elixirs are all 0.8 coefficient using utility skill scaling and not weapon scaling.

If Arenanet wants to improve harbinger as a power spec then the damage bonus on Wicked Corruption should be reverted as reaper has +300 ferocity in shroud and quickness on top of that with a single trait. Soul Eater on reaper is 10% bonus in range , Cold Shoulder minor trait is a flat 10% vs chilled,  so if Harbinger shroud is not to do max damage at range it could just amplify Cascading Corruption. To get that amount of ferocity from Implacable foe requires 2307 vitality which means you'd need full marauder at the very least. Wicked Corruption would probably also need to make Dark Barrage not able to be reflected as it is hard enough to land all hits at range already.

The mobility on harbinger shroud would also need to be restored and that goes for any variant of harbinger. A bonus would be if devouring cut could be used to reposition and drop blight while CC-ed in shroud.  If you get all hits of Death's Charge on reaper it is 1.3 coefficient on landing and 8 hits of 0.06 during the travel time = 1.78 without any prerequisites and then you also have the ferocity bonus and quickness advantage. Soul Spiral is 2.7 coefficient which is more or less Voracious Arc's current damage coefficient without the ferocity bonuses from reaper traitline.

Unless you're running speed runes to capitalize on swiftness I don't see how you are out-kiting people in a roaming situation in the current iteration of harbinger using power weapons and skills. The leaps are 600 , which is more or less the lowest leap range in-game. It should be 800-900 at least on harbinger shroud skills IMO to match the likes of swoop/infiltrator's strike/wings of resolve/bull's charge/rocket charge/jump shot.

The fact that you propose using projectiles as a primary source of damage in a WvW teamfight is baffling honestly as both harbinger auto and pistol are projectile and Dark Barrage is as well. Likewise you probably won't be using spectral wurm in WVW unless you are in a keep or tower and defending. Either you're fighting people that aren't even remotely comped or they're not paying attention as winds/bubbles/reflects/Field of the mists on revenant hammer all affect projectiles and harbinger can't afford to be counter-bombed by wells , CoR, or DH sword of justice due to not having health from shroud as well as the health loss from blight. I can't see why anyone would try and run harbinger over power renegade for example, as even boon rips are covered on renegade and unlike herald your citadel bombardment and even shortbow AoE skills aren't split from PVE for the most part.
 

[Sigmoid.7082]

14 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

• Voracious Arc = 1.4 with daze and 2.8 if over 10 blight however it was reduced to 600 range ; in reality it will probably be reduced to 0.01 coefficient due to the hard CC which means torment will end up the primary damage output and unlike in PVE it has 18s cooldown

Skills that daze generally don't follow that rule. If it was a stun then maybe..

Edited January 26, 2022 by Sigmoid.7082

[cobracommander.5861]

Cursed is 100% correct here. We need quicker access to shroud with all builds but especially with harbinger. I don’t get what the point of the class even is in wvw. We have none of the defensive traits that allow other classes to port in an engage. We’re stuck taking DM and honestly you’re stuck taking Wurm. Power is suicide. There is zero build diversity with the class. And to make matters worse, the entire class scales poorly the higher numbers you engage. It further railroads you into tb/cele. That is not fun. 

[cobracommander.5861]

No stealth, no defensive invulns, no instant ports out inherent to the class, there’s nothing that makes it playable for this aggressive upfront build concept. And to make it worse, we aren’t given a melee weapon and dagger damage still blows. The pistol is underwhelming and if I’m bombing in on a group I want the reaper gs, or SOMETHING. Give us something that’s fun. This is very uninspiring. We need something we can play power and live on. 

Edited January 26, 2022 by cobracommander.5861

[Morde.3158]

5 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

I tried it both betas. Even in PVE where the numbers aren't gutted power is not a strong archetype, it peaks at about 26K DPS.
In WVW harbinger power coefficients are underwhelming as well because only harbinger shroud 2 really is applicable for ranged damage beyond the auto so you end up being a glass melee spec. If you run power harbinger as opposed to condition harbinger you pulse cripple rather than weakness which means your ability to mitigate damage passively while in near melee range is more or less non-existent. I guess that is why you feel death magic is necessary even though it is merely 100 toughness unless you run a minion based build (power builds don't output enough poison for Putrid Defense). Even if you run Corrupter's Fervor (which is ~600 toughness with 30 stacks of carapace and requires a ramp up) or Unholy Sanctuary (1% health gain per second is regen boon level of 200-300 health if you have 20-30K health and potentially lethal if triggered inadvertently) it doesn't change the mobility deficit that occurred in the final patch we saw that hampers any build using power.

Harbinger Shroud

• Tainted Bolts / auto = 0.66 coefficient dual hit, which is barely better than Death Shroud given the cast time but performs better versus aegis as due to dual hit you still get half the damage but keep in mind it is projectile
• Dark Barrage = 2.0 , which is the only consistently decent ranged damage on it but it requires hitting with nearly all 6 hits otherwise it is worse than auto attack due to cast time (2 times 0.33 = 0.66). The spread occurs around 600 range or so and it is projectile.
• Devouring Cut = 1.0 and 2.0 if over 5 blight,  is mainly for mobility as damage is at landing location even though reduced to a 600 range leap. The advantage over core necro is you don't need a target so you gain mobility outside of combat.
• Voracious Arc = 1.4 with daze and 2.8 if over 10 blight however it was reduced to 600 range ; in reality it will probably be reduced to 0.01 coefficient due to the hard CC which means torment will end up the primary damage output and unlike in PVE it has 18s cooldown
• Vital Draw = 0.01 coefficient due to the float (hard CC) , which isn't as strong as immob in WVW whereas in PVP the daze is probably stronger

Pistol

• Vicious Shot = 0.233 coefficient , which is lower than scepter and is projectile
• Weeping Shots = 1.02 coefficient, which is extremely bad considering a 1.25s cast time
• Vile Blast = 0.01 coefficient which is not damage per say, hard CC

Meanwhile you can just use axe with CC on your offhand via warhorn. Elixirs are all 0.8 coefficient using utility skill scaling and not weapon scaling.

If Arenanet wants to improve harbinger as a power spec then the damage bonus on Wicked Corruption should be reverted as reaper has +300 ferocity in shroud and quickness on top of that with a single trait. Soul Eater on reaper is 10% bonus in range , Cold Shoulder minor trait is a flat 10% vs chilled,  so if Harbinger shroud is not to do max damage at range it could just amplify Cascading Corruption. To get that amount of ferocity from Implacable foe requires 2307 vitality which means you'd need full marauder at the very least. Wicked Corruption would probably also need to make Dark Barrage not able to be reflected as it is hard enough to land all hits at range already.

The mobility on harbinger shroud would also need to be restored and that goes for any variant of harbinger. A bonus would be if devouring cut could be used to reposition and drop blight while CC-ed in shroud.  If you get all hits of Death's Charge on reaper it is 1.3 coefficient on landing and 8 hits of 0.06 during the travel time = 1.78 without any prerequisites and then you also have the ferocity bonus and quickness advantage. Soul Spiral is 2.7 coefficient which is more or less Voracious Arc's current damage coefficient without the ferocity bonuses from reaper traitline.

Unless you're running speed runes to capitalize on swiftness I don't see how you are out-kiting people in a roaming situation in the current iteration of harbinger using power weapons and skills. The leaps are 600 , which is more or less the lowest leap range in-game. It should be 800-900 at least on harbinger shroud skills IMO to match the likes of swoop/infiltrator's strike/wings of resolve/bull's charge/rocket charge/jump shot.

The fact that you propose using projectiles as a primary source of damage in a WvW teamfight is baffling honestly as both harbinger auto and pistol are projectile and Dark Barrage is as well. Likewise you probably won't be using spectral wurm in WVW unless you are in a keep or tower and defending. Either you're fighting people that aren't even remotely comped or they're not paying attention as winds/bubbles/reflects/Field of the mists on revenant hammer all affect projectiles and harbinger can't afford to be counter-bombed by wells , CoR, or DH sword of justice due to not having health from shroud as well as the health loss from blight. I can't see why anyone would try and run harbinger over power renegade for example, as even boon rips are covered on renegade and unlike herald your citadel bombardment and even shortbow AoE skills aren't split from PVE for the most part.
 

I was not proposing anything about ranged damage I was telling you what we got and what I think the class needs that is all. Again the class needs better sustain since you say it wont be a zerg meta class. So since it wont be zerg meta it should be op  like all the other skimisher class how hard is that to understand lol. I have 16k necro hours and 26k hours total over all classes since launch of gw2 I want to have fun I dont want to try to run the same builds for the next 8 years or whenever anet decides to change the meta.

Edited January 27, 2022 by Morde.3158

[Infusion.7149]

16 minutes ago, Morde.3158 said:

I was not proposing anything about ranged damage I was telling you what we got and what I think the class needs that is all. Again the class needs better sustain since you say it wont be a zerg meta class. So since it wont be zerg meta it should be op  like all the other skimisher class how hard is that to understand lol. I have 16k necro hours and 26k hours total over all classes since launch of gw2 I want to have fun I dont want to try to run the same builds for the next 8 years or whenever anet decides to change the meta.

You wrote in your post " I can only ask for one thing can shroud get a lower shroud cooldown this time around?" Which would do barely anything for sustain since lifeforce to health was removed for mainly PvE DPS reasons. Harbinger does have shroud, what it doesn't have is a shroud healthbar.

Active sustain (as opposed to mitigation, don't confuse the two) would be something akin to reaper where blight removed heals your or something like that. Reaper instead has the 5% damage to heal on hit outside shroud or mediocre heal Blighter's Boon in shroud. For example, if Wicked Corruption has the clause: removing blight while in shroud heals you a proportionate amount. Power harbinger can't afford to stay in melee for long. Right now condition builds have the ability to run contagion , blood magic, and/or tormenting runes. Power builds don't have that option and the only real advantage to harbinger over reaper in the context of power builds is the ranged shroud. You don't have greatsword to fill in the gaps of shroud, pistol is a horrible power weapon.

Just because you then decide to double back and also ask for more sustain in the same paragraph doesn't change that.

Edited January 27, 2022 by Infusion.7149

[Morde.3158]

I didn't double back Im just not asking for a entire list of changes like you I stand firm with my statement harbinger shroud is 10s and it should be lower anything else? Read what I posted again sLoWly this time and understand it before commenting and if you don't understand what I wrote why even comment. You keep giving me these examples trying to explain whatever it is that you are trying to argue and it has nothing to do with my original post. A lower cool down on shroud would achieve allot since the shroud skill have fairly low cooldowns. I said all we got was a ranged class which is another base necro without shroud this time. Full ranged for necro is bad and has always been bad for necro since launch the ranged skills for necro are not reliable and anet has attempted to fix them and its still bad and im not talking about the damage im talking about the behavior of the skills. I wont be using the shroud skills defensively are you mad? If im not using it defensively then what is devouring cut and voracious arc? Unless its a 1v1 you would be using it defensively.

Edited January 27, 2022 by Morde.3158

[cobracommander.5861]

4 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

You wrote in your post " I can only ask for one thing can shroud get a lower shroud cooldown this time around?" Which would do barely anything for sustain since lifeforce to health was removed for mainly PvE DPS reasons.

Active sustain (as opposed to mitigation, don't confuse the two) would be something akin to reaper where blight removed heals your or something like that. Reaper instead has the 5% damage to heal on hit outside shroud or mediocre heal Blighter's Boon in shroud. For example, if Wicked Corruption has the clause: removing blight while in shroud heals you a proportionate amount. Power harbinger can't afford to stay in melee for long. Right now condition builds have the ability to run contagion , blood magic, and/or tormenting runes. Power builds don't have that option and the only real advantage to harbinger over reaper in the context of power builds is the ranged shroud. You don't have greatsword to fill in the gaps of shroud, pistol is a horrible power weapon.

Just because you then decide to double back and also ask for more sustain in the same paragraph doesn't change that.

Dude this isn’t productive lol. If you agree that harbinger needs fixing then stop you-know-what blocking us here. We all want it to be better. Cursed is probably the best necro in wvw right now and it’s all we do. We can’t speak for raid dps damage, our experience is 100% wvw gamemode.  We’re all entitled to our opinions, like you, and Cursed is more than entitled to his. Let’s just respect that we all have different things we’d like changed and support each other. We need to help each other on these forums if we are to get any traction with anet. Ok off my soapbox. 

[Obtena.7952]

I have no doubt this will be very unlikely given the uptime independence of Harbinger shroud on LF. 

Edited January 27, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Infusion.7149]

26 minutes ago, cobracommander.5861 said:

Dude this isn’t productive lol. If you agree that harbinger needs fixing then stop you-know-what blocking us here. We all want it to be better. Cursed is probably the best necro in wvw right now and it’s all we do. We can’t speak for raid dps damage, our experience is 100% wvw gamemode.  We’re all entitled to our opinions, like you, and Cursed is more than entitled to his. Let’s just respect that we all have different things we’d like changed and support each other. We need to help each other on these forums if we are to get any traction with anet. Ok off my soapbox. 

Except it is because devs have a limited set of changes they can reasonably implement that are high impact with minimal coding and implementation testing. From beta 1 to final beta it is clear they are trying to do the minimal possible to make something viable. Industry term for this would be minimum viable product.

To top it off the topic creator's suggestion is to use death magic when top PVPers testing power harbinger are using blood magic with marauder amulet and divinity runes. It's also cute that you think that 100% WVW gamemode even means anything because there's no true win or loss metric outside of GvG or at the very least squad combat. Smallscale WVW balance has always been predicated by PVP balance changes, most of WVW balance is based off squad play.

---
I fundamentally disagree with the idea it (a shroud cooldown reduction) would do anything (and the hyperbole of rangers  having 10K blocks in roaming is simply untrue ; shadow arts daredevils also have a huge drawback in WVW due to revealed applied by structures and guards alike).
For example if you get hit in a winds of disenchantment and get CC-ed , hit by any spellbreaker with a CC in any other scenario, immobed by a condi druid, hit from stealth by deadeyes or even scrappers with grenades, or pulled by a DH into a trap stack, a lower shroud cooldown will do nothing for you.

Power Harbinger needs to be way better to be effective, that much is true if you review community feedback. There needs to be a way to manage blight without dropping damage heavily (the penalty is far more severe for power builds as opposed to condition where you can build blight after conditions already are applied) and/or have access to elixirs in shroud that allow you to stunbreak , maybe regain health via blight (dropping blight is a net health gain) via power oriented harbinger traits as all the condition related sustain options aren't applicable. If we could drop blight while CC-ed for example that would be a seamless way to make the blight dumping skills in harbinger shroud better.

If the suggestion was something cogent I would fully support it. As it sits now, it's not and reads more like a random rant someone had in the breakroom.

Edited January 27, 2022 by Infusion.7149

[cobracommander.5861]

Idk how long you guys go back but we had a 7s shroud all the way until right before pof. It was traitable in SR and was devastating to high end roamed necro play when removed. I remember clearly the reasons anet gave for removing it was that something that critical to 100% of our builds shouldn’t be a trait. Also I can’t remember if this was stated or not but they were worried about balance issues with the scourge F5 as it was a % based reduction and would have scaled too op. This is what cursed it getting back to. Nobody complained that necro had a 7s cd prior to the trait being removed, but every competitive necro did when it disappeared, and we’ve wanted it back ever since. That’s the history, and it’s not too much to ask to get it back. 

[cobracommander.5861]

1 minute ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Except it is because devs have a limited set of changes they can reasonably implement that are high impact with minimal coding and implementation testing. From beta 1 to final beta it is clear they are trying to do the minimal possible to make something viable. Industry term for this would be minimum viable product.

To top it off the topic creator's suggestion is to use death magic when top PVPers testing power harbinger are using blood magic with marauder amulet and divinity runes. It's also cute that you think that 100% WVW gamemode even means anything because there's no true win or loss metric outside of GvG or at the very least squad combat. Smallscale WVW balance has always been predicated by PVP balance changes, most of WVW balance is based off squad play.

---
I fundamentally disagree with the idea it (a shroud cooldown reduction) would do anything (and the hyperbole of rangers  having 10K blocks in roaming is simply untrue ; shadow arts daredevil also have a huge drawback in WVW due to revealed applied by structures and guards alike).
For example if you get hit in a winds of disenchantment and get CC-ed , hit by any spellbreaker with a CC in any other scenario, immobed by a condi druid, hit from stealth by deadeyes or even scrappers with grenades, or pulled by a DH into a trap stack, a lower shroud cooldown will do nothing for you.

Power Harbinger needs to be way better to be effective, that much is true if you review community feedback. There needs to be a way to manage blight without dropping damage heavily (the penalty is far more severe for power builds as opposed to condition where you can build blight after conditions already are applied) and/or have access to elixirs in shroud that allow you to stunbreak , maybe regain health via blight (dropping blight is a net health gain) via power oriented harbinger traits as all the condition related sustain options aren't applicable. If we could drop blight while CC-ed for example that would be a seamless way to make the blight dumping skills in harbinger shroud better.

If the suggestion was something cogent I would fully support it. As it sits now, it's not and reads more like a random rant someone had in the breakroom.

If you don’t remember the old 7s shroud then this isn’t coming from experience. If it is, and you still don’t want it, then we should just agree to disagree and stop trying to drag us down on this. It matters to a lot of necros.

 

I am all here to support you on your harbinger improvements. I want it all. Let’s get it. 

[Infusion.7149]

1 minute ago, cobracommander.5861 said:

If you don’t remember the old 7s shroud then this isn’t coming from experience. If it is, and you still don’t want it, then we should just agree to disagree and stop trying to drag us down on this. It matters to a lot of necros.

 

I am all here to support you on your harbinger improvements. I want it all. Let’s get it. 

A 7s cooldown shroud would matter to core necro or reaper. It does literally nothing for harbinger sustain.

P.S. My account is since GW1 beta and it was part of GW2 prelaunch

Edited January 27, 2022 by Infusion.7149

[cobracommander.5861]

If thag didn’t become a hallmark of your build in 2015 or feel the pain when it left then I think we’re gonna have to agree to disagree on it’s importance and let us have our say to anet. We think it’s important for harbinger. 

Edited January 27, 2022 by cobracommander.5861

[Morde.3158]

2 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

A 7s cooldown shroud would matter to core necro or reaper. It does literally nothing for harbinger sustain.

Wrong, necro recharge on shroud was actually 5 seconds traited and was nerfed to 7 seconds years later. Soul reaping will make Voracious arc 8 seconds so that would great way to fix mobility. Again the point of my post was to explore the ideas of fixes or changes shroud cd would help heals would help blocks would help anything would help.

[Infusion.7149]

1 minute ago, Morde.3158 said:

Wrong, necro recharge on shroud was actually 5 seconds traited and was nerfed to 7 seconds years later. Soul reaping will make Voracious arc 8 seconds so that would great way to fix mobility. Again the point of my post was to explore the ideas of fixes or changes shroud cd would help heals would help blocks would help anything would help.

That makes zero sense since shroud cooldown is not linked to heals or blocks. Unless you mean shroud skills

[Morde.3158]

Yes I mean shroud skills and since the range is was nerfed 900 to 600 it does need something besides damage boosts.

[Infusion.7149]

23 minutes ago, Morde.3158 said:

Yes I mean shroud skills and since the range is was nerfed 900 to 600 it does need something besides damage boosts.

You should have said so then instead of saying shroud cooldown which implies entering harbinger shroud. None of the shroud skills help sustain unless blight dumping, they just up effective health with blight dump skills.