The long range dream is dead with EoD?

[Obtena.7952]

5 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

No one cares in the PuG World if you Enjoy the game.

That's fine ... that doesn't change what I have said EVER. The fact is that no player has to play meta in instanced content to enjoy this game and nothing you say will change that fact. PUG's don't let people play how they want? Sounds like a choice players need to make that Anet can't fix for them. 

Tempest isn't a meta choice? LOTS of things aren't a meta choice MOST things aren't a meta choice ... but you can still play those things with people that don't care what you play and be successful. That's not a message that should be ignored ... that's a message people should be shouting at every opportunity. That's probably the GREATEST thing about this game. 

No 'long range dream' is dead in EoD ... that's only in PUGs that you let tell you how to play. 

Edited February 7, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Puck.3697]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

That's fine ... that doesn't change what I have said EVER. The fact is that no player has to play meta instanced content to enjoy this game and nothing you say will change that fact. PUG's don't let people play how they want? Sounds like a choice players need to make that Anet can't fix for them. 

No one needs to play Meta in litterally Any MMORPG Ever, not in any game, not in any part of Said game, statistics throughout every MMORPG on the market support that fact.

However, does player expectation and perception support that most defintly not.

you say "sounds like a choice players need to make". but u forget that Choice isnt made by the player rolling builds for "Fun" and "Excitement" its a choice that'd need to changew with the People who are booting them from their groups. you are being punished by another players choice not your own when playing the game in this way.

[Obtena.7952]

1 minute ago, Daddy.8125 said:

No one needs to play Meta in litterally Any MMORPG Ever, not in any game, not in any part of Said game, statistics throughout every MMORPG on the market support that fact.

However, does player expectation and perception support that most defintly not.

That simply depends on who players choose to play with. Choose wisely. 

The long range dream is only dead in SOME PUG groups ...otherwise, enjoy the game as it was intended to be played. 

Edited February 7, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Puck.3697]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

That simply depends on who players choose to play with. Choose wisely. 

The long range dream is only dead in SOME PUG groups ...otherwise, enjoy the game as it was intended to be played. 

you dont have a choice in who you play with.

If u work a RL Job that prevents you from having the ability to play with a Static or a Guild. you rely on the PuG System. this is how it is for the vast Majority of those engaging with high level fractals or Raid content.

[Obtena.7952]

3 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

you dont have a choice in who you play with.

No, you absolutely do. If there is a message new and existing players should ignore ... it's THAT one. That idea is just absurd. Joining a PUG with players they don't know is absolutely a choice a player makes. 

Edited February 7, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Puck.3697]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

No, you absolutely do. If there is a message new and existing players should ignore ... it's THAT one. That idea is just absurd.

If theres 3 groups and only 3 groups for Fractal 100, and thats the one you need and you cant join a guild or a static due to not working a job that allows Static hours of play. how do u control who you play with?

[Obtena.7952]

4 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

If theres 3 groups and only 3 groups for Fractal 100, and thats the one you need and you cant join a guild or a static due to not working a job that allows Static hours of play. how do u control who you play with?

I'm not playing hypotheticals with you; the game doesn't cater to people that have limited options because of RL ... choosing to play in a PUG group with unknown players that MAY want you to play meta is ABSOLUTELY a choice players have to make. Therefore, playing meta is NOT a requirement to play instanced content in this game and the 'long range dream' for Eles isn't dead ... unless people choose to play that way. 

Edited February 7, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Puck.3697]

12 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I'm not playing hypotheticals with you; the game doesn't cater to people that have limited options because of RL ... choosing to play in a PUG group with unknown players that MAY want you to play meta is ABSOLUTELY a choice players have to make. Therefore, playing meta is NOT a requirement to play instanced content in this game and the 'long range dream' for Eles isn't dead ... unless people choose to play that way. 

But if the other option is not Feasible. that it is not Feasible. P.S learn what a choice is. its not a choice for the player to make. if they cant make it.

So bascially. your saying "if you cant play the game ina guild or a Static Quit the game"?  good mantra lol. maybe open with that statement. as that statement generally is the correct one lol, If you cant Choose to play in a Raid or Static, then Playing Meta is required. which i stated from the beginning.

Guilds (Statistics to less of a degree) tend to be more leninent when it comes to Comps, butr the vast majority cannot Raid with a guuld.. and tbh thats the fact in every MMORPG not GW2. Most players cannot appease a Static raid timetable.

Edited February 7, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Obtena.7952]

There is no discussion to be had with people that claim players have no choice in who they play with or no choice in what builds they can use to play the game. You believe either of those are true, you are wrong because it's how the game has worked for over 9 years.  

The long range dream for Ele isn't dead ... unless you CHOOSE to play that way. 

Edited February 7, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Puck.3697]

3 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

There is no discussion to be had with people that claim players have no choice in who they play with or what builds than can use to play the game. You believe either of those things can't be done, you are wrong. 

i am not wrong tho, your Argument is bent on the concept every player can optionally join a guild and raid with that guild which is completely false.

Someone who works Shift work, or hours that change Week to week cannot comitt to a Strict Raid rotar, thats the truth realistically, your boss is very unlikely to Exclude you from "Certain shifts" on the bases that you want to raid in a video game above work the hours they require you to.

People dont "Optionally PuG For fun". people PuG because they have to, due to their real life circumstances.

again. a Failure to Understand the difference between seeing something on paper and actually seeing how the player engages with it.

Edited February 7, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Obtena.7952]

2 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

i am not wrong tho, your Argument is bent on the concept every player can optionally join a guild and raid with that guild which is completely false.

Except my argument is not only based on that concept. I mean, there isn't a discussion here. Players DO have choices for who they play with and how they play the game. 

Edited February 7, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Puck.3697]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

Except it's not. It's simply that people choose to not play that way. People join guilds to raid all the time. 

Lmao. that is Statistically proven incorrect. the vast majority PuG.

i think this is the dumbest statement i seen you make, People dont choose their Work hours and People dont Choose to be unable to log on the game at specific raid times. they're simply unable to due to real life circumstance.

your Completely ignore what involves Children, or Shift work / Rotar based Jobs.

[Obtena.7952]

Again, there isn't a discussion here with people that claim players don't have choices in how to play or who they play with. 

If you want to play ranged Ele, do it. It's only dead if you let it die. If you are just posting rhetoric with the hope Anet makes range ele meta ... then wait and pray. 

Edited February 7, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[AliamRationem.5172]

2 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

while i agree here.. can we give many examples where ranged weapons were introduced As great as Renegade realistically.

we can all point out a Exception. but its litterally that, a Exception and yah we can be like "why doesnt elementalist just get a bow as good as Renegades then".

But then lets Look at another Ranged Elite specc coming out by the Current Developers of EoD.

Virtuoso.

Do we really want Elementalist to get virtuoso?... do u really think thats gonna fix your problems cause Spoilers: It Wont lmfao, its Litterally Put in garbage tier by every tier list created around EoD and we can say "oh but maybe they'll fix it. maybe it'll be great" at best the mechanic may improve. that Daggers never getting used however.

heres the fact. Unlike Renegades Development.

Everything you get will have a Severe trade off, Hence why virtuoso is where it is. Being Ranged has made its Damage Neutered. the Weapon itself Isnt good enough to be Warranted. the Casting animations and More have made it Unrealistic in PvP Settings.

Its been made entirely Reflectable.

The current Development team. put out ONE MAGE. ONE Cast based Fantasy Elite. and it Absolutely Sucks lmfao.... I mean you want me to look at virtuoso, and have some level of Copium for a Ranged Elite for Elementalist. No, because if virtuoso is the Modern Standard of Ranged Gameplay in Guild Wars 2. Even if u have it, you'll ignore it.

It probably isn't what people are looking for in a "mage", but I rather like the way renegade can use its wide area effects and range on shortbow to actually be a ranged class without it being like "standing in place and spam from 1200".  Sort of like this, where you're not staying far away but kiting around where the enemy can't quite hit you except obviously if I had a ranged weapon with area effects more similar to renegade shortbow he'd be walking through my area effects while I use my range to keep the damage coming.

I think hammer not being more like this was a missed opportunity.  Edit: Actually, I can't really say that yet because I still need to see the finished product and really get a feel for it.  Maybe it will be exactly what I am talking about, but instead of a pure ranged weapon we move in and out of melee.  That could actually be pretty fun.  We'll see!

Edited February 7, 2022 by AliamRationem.5172

[AliamRationem.5172]

26 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Again, there isn't a discussion here with people that claim players don't have choices in how to play or who they play with. 

If you want to play ranged Ele, do it. It's only dead if you let it die. If you are just posting rhetoric with the hope Anet makes range ele meta ... then wait and pray. 

Of course you're aware that the problem is these weapons are objectively terrible when used as ranged weapons and the builds you're forced to take for staff at least are both much more flimsy while dealing less damage than other available options.  Yeah, they can play it.  The complaint is that it's just not very good and they'd like to see more options.  Pretty easy to understand, I think.

[Puck.3697]

49 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

It probably isn't what people are looking for in a "mage", but I rather like the way renegade can use its wide area effects and range on shortbow to actually be a ranged class without it being like "standing in place and spam from 1200".  Sort of like this, where you're not staying far away but kiting around where the enemy can't quite hit you except obviously if I had a ranged weapon with area effects more similar to renegade shortbow he'd be walking through my area effects while I use my range to keep the damage coming.

I think hammer not being more like this was a missed opportunity.  Edit: Actually, I can't really say that yet because I still need to see the finished product and really get a feel for it.  Maybe it will be exactly what I am talking about, but instead of a pure ranged weapon we move in and out of melee.  That could actually be pretty fun.  We'll see!

while i can agree, but yeah while it fits a Revenant to wield a Ranged weapon in such fashion, it defintly wouldnt make sense for a Elementalist, and tbh while we can say "well one works better then the other". tbh its this way in every MMORPG. in WoW or FFXIV, Physical Ranged are Magic Ranged are very different in playstyle.

Area effects are defintly bad, staff and sceptar both need More direct AoE Nukes then these backloaded fields of damage for sure. but i dont think it'll shake the "Cast-time gameplay" thats generically seen in more Magical based Ranged combat, even in the circumstances of LB. we know they arent all "Mobile shoot and Run". we see it with DH, where its more Magic based Arrows are actually Charge ups. and require stationary play.

the Difference ofcourse being DHs damage is instant and Staff / Sceptars Damage defintly not be, we see similar problems in Symbols across the rest of Guardians weapons having the same problem ofcourse.

as far as i can tell, Hammer is Susposed to be the Ranged / Melee hybrid u'd effectively see in for example a Renegade Wielding Short bow, but also melee Combat with its Mace / Axe on weapon swap. the problem i can forsee is, 600 Range isnt Enough to make that distinictive, and imho. Hammers ranged components need Increasing to 900 Range as i stated.

I cant see elementalist getting Revenants Shortbow. but likely something far closer to virtuoso. and maybe if we are to really breathe some copium in. Somehow they'll get Virtuoso Working. but i just dont see it happening without some Severe changes to the elite and even if they get the elite running it defintly wont be running dagger builds.

Most "functional" Ranged builds tend to be the more physical Ones. I.E Revenants Shortbow, Rangers Longbow and Shortbow, Thief with Pistols is defintly strong for solo content. likely because With a Run and gun playstyle it Does kinda add up more flexible then Casters, and Sure we can take the big Bunnyhop360Fireball approach to it that WoW at one point reached in MoP, but lets face it. from a game Perspective its Incredibly unjustified and Lopsided the problems of WoW to be the reverse where Ranged were so much more valuable then Melee.

FFXIV is the only one i can think of where this Doesnt strictly apply.. and Anet reaching Square Enixs level of balancing i feel  is basically Injecting copium into urself at this point. I have no faith that Adding another Mage specc to the critea would end any better then virtuoso which maybe why i oppose the direct concept of "Ranged would be better".

[draxynnic.3719]

5 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

while i can agree, but yeah while it fits a Revenant to wield a Ranged weapon in such fashion, it defintly wouldnt make sense for a Elementalist, and tbh while we can say "well one works better then the other". tbh its this way in every MMORPG. in WoW or FFXIV, Physical Ranged are Magic Ranged are very different in playstyle.

Dude, this isn't even true in GW2 - it's true of elementalist staff, but mesmer, necromancer, and guardian ranged weapons all allow you to move and fight fairly effectively, and even elementalist sceptre doesn't have any skills that you have to be stationary to use, it's just that things like Dragon's Tooth require the fight to be reasonably static to land. Guild Wars 1 had every profession, physical or magic (and it actually had mechanical distinctions between the two!) needing to be stationary to attack, but Guild Wars 2's paradigm is for more mobile combat.

I cited a set of builds in every game mode apart from your precious stack-and-smack instanced endgame PvE where having ranged capability is an advantage. Some of them - roughly as many as are pure melee - ARE pure ranged (and some of those that you've criticised are actually quite effective in my experience, such as staff/sceptre mesmer, although I don't use the mirage build). Many of them have a mix, because, hey, being able to switch from melee to ranged and vice versa as the situation develops is useful. Catalyst hammer in its current form, however, pretty much fails at that due to the close range of the "ranged" attunements, fire still having a melee skill 5 as well, and the orb thing. 

I also don't see it being reworked to something that's actually a convincing ranged/melee hybrid, because of the orbs thing. While the problems of Virtuoso and Harbinger are more numbers-oriented balancing issues. Renegade has been discussed, although you're trying to dismiss it as an exception that proves the rule. Deadeye, which you're also attempting to condescendingly dismiss, actually has a rifle build on Snowcrows - sure, it's not recommended for a lot of raids, and is mostly used for certain mechanics on the Qadim fights, but it's there, and if more endgame content actually required ranged play, you'd see ranged builds more often. Scourge is meta and they ain't using daggers. And that's just considering endgame stuff.

Regarding your condescending attitude towards open world PvE: You do know, don't you, that there are PvP players that have the same attitude towards your preferred mode, gathering it all under "lolpve"? Maybe they're actually so good that only other players at their level present them with a challenge. Or maybe they're just being condescending.

There is a degree to which, if you play it safe and don't go anywhere without a train to help you, you can do everything in PvE. However, you'll certainly have a better experience if you have a better build. You'll spend more time actually having fun rather than sucking dirt in group events, and you'll have more things that you're actually able to do by yourself or with a couple of friends at a time of your own choosing rather than having to wait for help.

Which is where my "there's a big difference between 'anything works if the zerg carries you' and 'I solo legendaries for fun'" statement comes from. Obviously, these are two extremes, and most people are going to fall somewhere in between. But build quality and versatility absolutely to affect what players are able to do when they're not glued to a zerg, and therefore player enjoyment overall.

And sure, you might not care about other people's enjoyment of modes outside of what you personally enjoy. You've pretty much shown in this thread and others that you don't care about anything other than your own patch and therefore that your opinions should be judged accordingly.

But here's a bitter pill for you to swallow:

The overwhelming majority of the player base doesn't play your game mode.

It's actually a fairly artificial game mode. Stack in melee, buff, smack. Rely mostly on your support to keep you alive (good luck with that in open world or most competitive modes). Sure, you have a few mechanics that require doing something different, but in most cases, you can get away with only one or two people doing those and everyone else stacks and smacks. There are a lot of factors that are important in other game modes that just don't matter at all in most raids, fractals, and strikes because smack and stack works there. Which means that "how well does this work in raids?" is a really bad metric for how good a specialisation is for the game as a whole, especially if the elite specialisation is doing something that the profession is already doing in raids. Which is not to say that instanced PvE performance isn't a consideration - it clearly is - but it's a long, long way from being the only consideration.

Of course, for fairness, the overwhelming majority of the player base doesn't play sPvP either. Matches wouldn't be as lopsided as they did. I'm pretty sure the overwhelming majority doesn't play WvW either, or only does so to chase rewards that can only be gained in WvW.

But you know what the overwhelming majority, including most of the people who play other modes as well, do engage in?

Open world and story.

So while you might not care about people's enjoyment playing those modes in your twisted ivory citadel or hidden city, people who actually care about the long-term health of the game do. Because at the bottom line, that's what most players do. That's what pays the bills and keeps the servers running and the updates coming. Of course, there is still value in supporting aspirational content like raids, high-end PvP, and so on for reasons that I'm sure you've already heard from Mighty Teapot, but deciding which playstyles should and shouldn't be supported purely according to how well they fit into the current raid/fractal meta is letting the tail wag the dog in a big way.

 

[Jski.6180]

Even ele strongest healing support chose dose not work on "non melee" set up. Frost bow 1 spam only works if it hits a foe target and its aoe is only 240. The very ideal of its support IS melee aimed.

[Puck.3697]

6 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Dude, this isn't even true in GW2 - it's true of elementalist staff, but mesmer, necromancer, and guardian ranged weapons all allow you to move and fight fairly effectively, and even elementalist sceptre doesn't have any skills that you have to be stationary to use, it's just that things like Dragon's Tooth require the fight to be reasonably static to land. Guild Wars 1 had every profession, physical or magic (and it actually had mechanical distinctions between the two!) needing to be stationary to attack, but Guild Wars 2's paradigm is for more mobile combat

What you write doesn't even answer what I state. 

we know Anet are launching a massive balance wave after EoD to deal with the power creep currently or it is what they are saying. 

A Good indication of what they are dealing with can be estimated on what the new elites Do hence why many beleive 10 man buffs are gonna be dropped to 5 man based on all the new elites being 5 man max 

virtuoso is the only full ranged weapon coming in EoD and we can see it has cast times its punished for not facing the monsters direction as all shatters will miss and it does have delayed animations and limited mobility. 

Im stating if the same rules that now apply to virtuoso are not applied to other ranged weapons it would not make sense for them to introduce a dead on entry elite specc on a expansion drop. 

If you launched ele a pure ranged spec with virtuoso the likelyhood is they would have been balanced against virtuoso. Given the position virtuosos in with the fact it's vastyl outclassed by mesmers other choices in all content i don't beleive itd of been good. 

and virtuoso isn't a numbers problem. 

HArbinger isn't a numbers problem 

virtuoso is too squishy. It loses clones and ontop of this its effects are too counterable. 

harbinger just doesn't have the survivability at all.

to beleive the problems with harbinger and virtuoso are numbers is so far off the truth it's unbelievable. Damage doesn't matter if the game mechanics physically makes it too hard to land 

Point is: if ele got a ranged specc like virtuoso you guys would defintly not be satisfied and no one would still be happy. Just pressuming Anet would do good is madness realistically.

I never said I don't want elementalist to get a ranged weapon. I stated that I just don't beleive it's the "instant fix" people try to state it is 

 

 

 

Edited February 7, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Puck.3697]

6 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

And sure, you might not care about other people's enjoyment of modes outside of what you personally enjoy. You've pretty much shown in this thread and others that you don't care about anything other than your own patch and therefore that your opinions should be judged accordingly

Untrue. 

Me saying I don't think they will do a ranged weapon well In design. Is not me staying "I don't care about fun" 

I'm a PvPer. Not a raider, the fact is I've talked very little about my mode. And catalyst is also pretty bad at PvP already. So what happens to it isn't all that relevant to me. 

Ironically I was a mesmer main who also played ele til virtuoso was shown. And after experiencing possibly the worst elite to actually set foot in this game so far in my honest opinion I've now quit mesmer leaving me with only ele. 

You try to boil virtuosos problems down to simple ones yet ignore the actual problems it has 

- shatters are trapped to mesmers direction which makes em super avoidable 

- massive cast times to go off mean they are too counterable. 

- loss of clones make them too squishy in PvE. 

- everything's deflectable making it terrible against most proffessions options

To state I'm incredibly negative and unbelieving about the concept of Anet developing a ranged specc based on what we have seen in EoD would be the correct statement. 

I beleive virtuoso is a good indication that they have no idea how to balance a ranged specc well. 

 

 

Edited February 7, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[AliamRationem.5172]

1 hour ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Untrue. 

Me saying I don't think they will do a ranged weapon well In design. Is not me staying "I don't care about fun" 

I'm a PvPer. Not a raider, the fact is I've talked very little about my mode. And catalyst is also pretty bad at PvP already. So what happens to it isn't all that relevant to me. 

Ironically I was a mesmer main who also played ele til virtuoso was shown. And after experiencing possibly the worst elite to actually set foot in this game so far in my honest opinion I've now quit mesmer leaving me with only ele. 

You try to boil virtuosos problems down to simple ones yet ignore the actual problems it has 

- shatters are trapped to mesmers direction which makes em super avoidable 

- massive cast times to go off mean they are too counterable. 

- loss of clones make them too squishy in PvE. 

- everything's deflectable making it terrible against most proffessions options

To state I'm incredibly negative and unbelieving about the concept of Anet developing a ranged specc based on what we have seen in EoD would be the correct statement. 

I beleive virtuoso is a good indication that they have no idea how to balance a ranged specc well. 

 

 

Honestly, I don't get your argument at all.  Okay, so Virtuoso sucks.  So what?  When we mention ranged specs that don't suck you go all Jski on me talking about "physical" vs. "magical".  Who cares?  If it works for GW2 combat then it works, no?  Maybe it would be fun to have an ele spec that isn't Virtuoso but can deal damage from somewhere a little further away than melee range?  I think it might be!

The only part of the argument that makes sense to me is that we already have two ranged weapons.  So if those suck, maybe the first answer is to make them work better?  Which is really the first thing all our ranged-pushing ele players are asking for: FIX STAFF already!  The next step is in the distant future anyway and only if we get another expansion (and let's not get ahead of ourselves because I really don't see that happening unless EoD is successful).

[Puck.3697]

19 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Honestly, I don't get your argument at all.  Okay, so Virtuoso sucks.  So what?  When we mention ranged specs that don't suck you go all Jski on me talking about "physical" vs. "magical".  Who cares?  If it works for GW2 combat then it works, no?  Maybe it would be fun to have an ele spec that isn't Virtuoso but can deal damage from somewhere a little further away than melee range?  I think it might be!

First part of my argument was Generally towards players to pressume "Just because its Ranged means it'll automatically be better". That statement in my eyes in pure Copium and the fact people bring up "any build with ranged components in it" as a argument to then display multiple builds show this feature, ignoring the factor that elementalists Hammer is "A build with a Ranged component in it" the issue is the fact people want the More "mage" Style Ranged combat for Elementalist. not a hybrid between melee and Ranged.

to the Physical vs Magical. im merely Putting the Features that Anet have applied in EoD Speccs.

If we look at harbingers Pistol, its created very much with Mobility and Fire on movement enabled, however Virtuosos weapon is not. Now if we break down precisely when Anet has Decided to give one Ranged Specc Mobility and the other not. the first thing we can really look at.

harbingers Pistol is not magical.

Virtuoso's Dagger is Magical.

As far as i can tell. Anet intend to shift their Design Philosphy with EoD, and they've stated theres siginificant changes they want to make to what currently exists.. which means EoD Speccs are a good break down point at which to look at what they precisely mean by that.

If in their Eyes. Virtuoso is the embodiment of a Ranged Magic user then Yes. i dont think Asking for the same thing is going to be the big "Fix" the proffession needs.

19 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

The only part of the argument that makes sense to me is that we already have two ranged weapons.  So if those suck, maybe the first answer is to make them work better?  Which is really the first thing all our ranged-pushing ele players are asking for: FIX STAFF already!  The next step is in the distant future anyway and only if we get another expansion (and let's not get ahead of ourselves because I really don't see that happening unless EoD is successful).

to the second part.. yeah pretty much.

If we get a "great ranged weapon tied to a Elite" ur just putting a 2 Year Suspension on your problem. Because we know the current elites will fall behind the New ones, this has traditionally happened for elementalist everytime so far.

So when the new one comes out and Catalyst goes away your back to Melee only choices, Restricting the only viable ranged Weapon to One Elite would create Limitations that longevity wise likely would not benefit the playerbase demanding Ranged weapons.

Fixing core weapons means they can be relevant to every specc.

I simply lack the concept this Dev team are capable of making a good Ranged build, yes we have renegade Yes we have Scourge. 2 good examples of Ranged Weaponary being good, however The Dev team have changed since The development of these 2 things all the new devs have been realistically responsible for is not hamstringing them.

All we can base the new devs on development capability wise is EoD speccs.. and that just isnt a positive outlook realistically how many proffessions seem happy with their EOD Speccs realistically? are u sure we're even gonna get use out of them realistically?... because currently i can see uis Just Using the PoF ones

Unless they Push the current exisitng Elites Down to match EoDs. which from a Ranged /Caster Point of view is a bleak view at best considering what they've done to the 2 ranged speccs coming in EoD.

I do not beleive in the whole "Well we could just hope its better then virtuoso".. Because Why would they intentionally make one Specc do the same thing better then another specc. They're creating a New balancing line which they want to significantly change the game based on, so theres no way they'd just make virtuoso generically worse then a Ranged specc for Ele, they'd be equalised realistically.

 

Edited February 7, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[AliamRationem.5172]

19 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

First part of my argument was Generally towards players to pressume "Just because its Ranged means it'll automatically be better". That statement in my eyes in pure Copium and the fact people bring up "any build with ranged components in it" as a argument to then display multiple builds show this feature, ignoring the factor that elementalists Hammer is "A build with a Ranged component in it" the issue is the fact people want the More "mage" Style Ranged combat for Elementalist. not a hybrid between melee and Ranged.

to the Physical vs Magical. im merely Putting the Features that Anet have applied in EoD Speccs.

If we look at harbingers Pistol, its created very much with Mobility and Fire on movement enabled, however Virtuosos weapon is not. Now if we break down precisely when Anet has Decided to give one Ranged Specc Mobility and the other not. the first thing we can really look at.

harbingers Pistol is not magical.

Virtuoso's Dagger is Magical.

As far as i can tell. Anet intend to shift their Design Philosphy with EoD, and they've stated theres siginificant changes they want to make to what currently exists.. which means EoD Speccs are a good break down point at which to look at what they precisely mean by that.

If in their Eyes. Virtuoso is the embodiment of a Ranged Magic user then Yes. i dont think Asking for the same thing is going to be the big "Fix" the proffession needs.

to the second part.. yeah pretty much.

If we get a "great ranged weapon tied to a Elite" ur just putting a 2 Year Suspension on your problem. Because we know the current elites will fall behind the New ones, this has traditionally happened for elementalist everytime so far.

So when the new one comes out and Catalyst goes away your back to Melee only choices, Restricting the only viable ranged Weapon to One Elite would create Limitations that longevity wise likely would not benefit the playerbase demanding Ranged weapons.

Fixing core weapons means they can be relevant to every specc.

I simply lack the concept this Dev team are capable of making a good Ranged build, yes we have renegade Yes we have Scourge. 2 good examples of Ranged Weaponary being good, however The Dev team have changed since The development of these 2 things all the new devs have been realistically responsible for is not hamstringing them.

All we can base the new devs on development capability wise is EoD speccs.. and that just isnt a positive outlook realistically how many proffessions seem happy with their EOD Speccs realistically? are u sure we're even gonna get use out of them realistically?... because currently i can see uis Just Using the PoF ones

Unless they Push the current exisitng Elites Down to match EoDs. which from a Ranged /Caster Point of view is a bleak view at best considering what they've done to the 2 ranged speccs coming in EoD.

I do not beleive in the whole "Well we could just hope its better then virtuoso".. Because Why would they intentionally make one Specc do the same thing better then another specc. They're creating a New balancing line which they want to significantly change the game based on, so theres no way they'd just make virtuoso generically worse then a Ranged specc for Ele, they'd be equalised realistically.

 

Cmon, man.  You're just salty because you were really looking forward to Virtuoso being something good and it wasn't.  Now you're creating this whole scenario wherein the devs are incapable of creating a working ranged spec.  It's quite a stretch to go from "Virtuoso sucks" to "All ranged specs from now on will suck."

[The Boz.2038]

23 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

harbingers Pistol is not magical.

Virtuoso's Dagger is Magical.

Harbinger's pistol autoattack literally fires magical bolts infused with dark energy that corrupt the target with energy from the realm of Torment.

But yeah, totes physical. Not magical at all.

 

[Puck.3697]

37 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Cmon, man.  You're just salty because you were really looking forward to Virtuoso being something good and it wasn't.  Now you're creating this whole scenario wherein the devs are incapable of creating a working ranged spec.  It's quite a stretch to go from "Virtuoso sucks" to "All ranged specs from now on will suck."

I'd argue. it takes a high level of incompetence to seriously develope virtuoso, so yeah i do question their capability entirely.