The long range dream is dead with EoD?

[Huldrelokk.6598]

With Weaver spec every Elementalist enthusiast was expecting something long range with a future new elite specialization, Weaver can do high damage with melee attacks and with that the melee combat style was filled, but we get a new closed ranged class and being clear and direct with a poor design, along the years after PoF and the rumor of a new expansion incoming we was imaginating the Longbow and attacks with 1200 range again or in the bad case shortbow but they choose Hammer from the dephts of their minds and we got a new melee class still strange and without clear function on the game.
Elementalist currently is a class with high risk and low result, the joke "downed state meta" is real, i love Elementalist but now is sad what we can do with effiency on the game compared with the others.
Ok, we have players that meter the quality and efficiency of a class hitting a static golem and watching numbers, but out of that context Elementalist class are out of the plans and with EoD this looks the same situation.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

Anet is completely out of touch with their playerbase if they thought people would want another melee elementalist spec with another slow, clunky weapon.

[Jski.6180]

Its staff for at least 4 years? if we are getting another expansion with elite spec.

What i think keep ele from being that "true ranged caster" is the lack of 1,200 or 900 ranged "good" utility. Tempest got 600 self ranged shouts weaver has self only stances and catalyses has self only "not" stances. Maybe if anet would fix conja weapons to have at least a good ranged skill maybe but the rate anet is balancing there game and just how much they go out of there way to keep ele out of content i do not see it going well.

[Huldrelokk.6598]

10 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

Its staff for at least 4 years? if we are getting another expansion with elite spec.

What i think keep ele from being that "true ranged caster" is the lack of 1,200 or 900 ranged "good" utility. Tempest got 600 self ranged shouts weaver has self only stances and catalyses has self only "not" stances. Maybe if anet would fix conja weapons to have at least a good ranged skill maybe but the rate anet is balancing there game and just how much they go out of there way to keep ele out of content i do not see it going well.

Yes! Exactly, but IMO Elementalist is a complex class in every possible spec (Core, Tempest and Weaver) and they avoid to put effort to fix the problems involving the class, Catalyst is just another class to fill the "stack and attack" strategy envolving PvE but when we talk about ranged class we just want options to have fun in every game mode, we can still stack and attack with a true ranged weapon.

[Stx.4857]

It's not just elementalist.  Every class deals the most damage in melee range.  I'm sure there are a few exceptions, but of the classes I play, the melee weapons are the best, regardless of class fantasy.

[greedywholesome.9081]

Hi OP,  we can dream all we want but our reality always turn out to be a nightmare. 

 

[Serephen.3420]

With weaver most eles from what I saw, myself included wanted mainhand sword especially after getting warhorn on tempest.

 

That said regarding hammer it would be nice if the range was a bit more consistent. I don't think cata means the end of range specs for ele but I think they need to work on making range more viable and wanted before they can make a worthwhile ranged spec.

[Puck.3697]

9 hours ago, Huldrelokk.6598 said:

With Weaver spec every Elementalist enthusiast was expecting something long range with a future new elite specialization, Weaver can do high damage with melee attacks and with that the melee combat style was filled, but we get a new closed ranged class and being clear and direct with a poor design

I disagree. A portion of elementalists were wanting a Long Ranged weapon. however the vast majority are very aware that ranged Weapons rarely compete with melee weapons in most enviroments and it'd be very likely the weapon wouldnt be used to any level worth really hoping for.

9 hours ago, Huldrelokk.6598 said:

Elementalist currently is a class with high risk and low result, the joke "downed state meta" is real, i love Elementalist but now is sad what we can do with effiency on the game compared with the others.

Elementalist is not a Down state meta. the meme is because Most elementalists Die. not because the Proffession itself lacks the tools to survive. grimjack and many others kinda Prove that this isnt really true. to the "High risk and low results" well tbh no matter how hard it is to play it shouldnt be entitled to being better then other options. to stack.

Renegade, scourge and Firebrand overshadow Every other Option. not just us.

9 hours ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

Anet is completely out of touch with their playerbase if they thought people would want another melee elementalist spec with another slow, clunky weapon.

Hes just one example. Where a person trying out GW2 Immediately States he doesnt like the Ranged "mage" options of the Elementalist and Prefers the close quatre combat of Dagger and the idea of Sword.

people have a magical idea, because they want something the majority must be behind them.

However Bellular trying to the game aswell as Zan when trying the game, both Didnt like the ranged weapons.

you seem to forget, GW2 Combat isnt built for ranged Combat, the Winning aspect of the game is its Combat system and the Best combat that shows this off is Melee therefore No, they're not out of touch, Just because u want a ranged weapon, and Some vocal players also want a Ranged Weapon. Does not mean the statisatical Evidence of Those who prefer Melee or Ranged Is in your favour Realistically.

Heres something to remember.

We have Countless Ranged weapons in the game. theres a Reason why Most of them are never used. or combined with melee weapons meaning ur stood in melee regardless. Thats because Pure Ranged Options rarely exist. Scourge is Quite litterally the only DPS that strictly runs a Ranged Weapon in meta builds.

the boon system doesnt work properly in Ranged.

Ranged Weapons generally mean u have to trade off Sustain, how much squishier could u go to ensure this doesnt overwrite Weaver.

Ranged Weapons Should do Less DPS if ranged combat was to ever be fully implemented and GW2 lacks the difficulty to punish Melee Play enough to Prevent its Superiority.

8 hours ago, Huldrelokk.6598 said:

Yes! Exactly, but IMO Elementalist is a complex class in every possible spec (Core, Tempest and Weaver) and they avoid to put effort to fix the problems involving the class, Catalyst is just another class to fill the "stack and attack" strategy envolving PvE but when we talk about ranged class we just want options to have fun in every game mode, we can still stack and attack with a true ranged weapon.

So is every specc.

Because the way boons and healing works in GW2, Litterally even if ur a full  Ranged Build. your still going to stand in Melee because of that.

Standing outside the Stack makes Survival Much harder and Reduces your DPS as ur boon uptime will take a hit.

[Puck.3697]

30 minutes ago, Serephen.3420 said:

That said regarding hammer it would be nice if the range was a bit more consistent. I don't think cata means the end of range specs for ele but I think they need to work on making range more viable and wanted before they can make a worthwhile ranged spec.

i would honestly be suprised if Elementalist got any Ranged Speccs Until the day Anet Remake Ranged Weapons. lets face it, every Elite thats brought a Ranged weapon to play. Dont play that weapon in majority of play. lets honestly look through it.

Deadeye. you dont use Dead in PvE At all realistically. its just weaker, In fractals it doesnt work, in Raids it doesnt work outside of handkiting and pylons, in SPVP its good memes but inferior. Like the only place it can be of some use is Tagging monsters in Metas (Shortbow does it better) and i dont think its even used in  WvWvW that much really.

Dragonhunter, Again some memes in SPVP. but not rly used in PvE Content at all.. i guess its used in WvWvW atleast.

Renegade, Shortbow was successful here, but ironically its Mixed with a Melee combination so ur still pretty much standing in melee with it anyway.

Scourge Torch as above its litterally the only successful Ranged weapon added to a Elite realistically.

the fact in 2 Expansions.. i can only even think of 4 Added Ranged weapons Total kinda gives the point here though. Anet tend to dodge giving ranged Weapons. because 9/10 times The Loss in Sustain with Lower DPS. Just has no place in PvE content. and the loss in sustain Generally affects you pretty hard in SPVP in most cases also.

Ranged combat in GW2 is shockingly Bad in all honesty. it always really has been. Boons being Radius bound makes being Ranged a DPS Loss as you dont get boons. Also because how healings done Generally you just make it a Pain in the kitten for a Healer to keep u alive.

the only job for ranged weapons, is Litterally handkiting.

9 hours ago, Jski.6180 said:

Its staff for at least 4 years? if we are getting another expansion with elite spec.

What i think keep ele from being that "true ranged caster" is the lack of 1,200 or 900 ranged "good" utility. Tempest got 600 self ranged shouts weaver has self only stances and catalyses has self only "not" stances. Maybe if anet would fix conja weapons to have at least a good ranged skill maybe but the rate anet is balancing there game and just how much they go out of there way to keep ele out of content i do not see it going well.

i would possibly agree. if it wasnt for the fact the games Design itself Realistically goes against the existance of True Ranged gameplay

even if u use a Staff ur standing in the stack.

even if u use a lonbow your standing in the stack.

this game has No Real Ranged Gameplay, because how the games mechanics function, boons and healing Requires you to stack. the only place Ranged Weapons see some flexibility is WvWvW and thats only because ur a blob of people v a blob of people and being melee is Very dangerous.

and a 55k DPS Elite isnt "keeping ele out of content" Sure we know it'll be nerfed, but no one knows how much by realistically. it was doing 50k DPS While pumping out Quickness we also have the Significant changes and balancings Stated to come shrotly after EoD Regarding current core and Elites.

we dont rly have ground that after all these go through eles "Locked out of content". also.

Anet rly havent done anything to "keep ele out of content". the playerbase realistically do, theres nothing Unviable about playing this Proffession. its Still very competitive against other Options and its very capable of clearing all content.

Before we go into "Scourge renegade and firebrand" this is litterally keeping EVERY proffession out of Content in this sense. this isnt a Elementalist problem this is EVERYTHING but those 3 problem.

in SPVP. again the Problem Weaver has is What every sidenoder has.. Thief roaming Meta is Soo storng its Eliminated the role entirely. Weaver isnt the only one whos paid the price for that happening. Spellbreaker, Core ranger, Decap Druid and More all suffered it.

 

Edited January 27, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

37 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Hes just one example. Where a person trying out GW2 Immediately States he doesnt like the Ranged "mage" options of the Elementalist and Prefers the close quatre combat of Dagger and the idea of Sword.

people have a magical idea, because they want something the majority must be behind them.

However Bellular trying to the game aswell as Zan when trying the game, both Didnt like the ranged weapons.

Maybe they didnt like the ranged options of elementalist because staff and scepter are ridiculously slow and clunky compared to the vast majority of weapons in the game. And maybe staff fit the pace of combat 9 years ago but it has barely been touched since the game launched.

Also there are lots of great ranged weapons. Just because they arent usually used in meta dps rotations doesnt mean people dont like them.

[Puck.3697]

15 minutes ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

Maybe they didnt like the ranged options of elementalist because staff and scepter are ridiculously slow and clunky compared to the vast majority of weapons in the game. And maybe staff fit the pace of combat 9 years ago but it has barely been touched since the game launched.

NGL, all core stuff feels Slow and Clunky compared to the new stuff lol. i doubt this is a Only thing here realistically, also Staff Weaver Was meta at the start of PoF and ranged-demanding players did love it.

GW2 Does Ranged combat Severely bad, because it almost stripes GW2s Combat System down to World of Warcrafts as it feels Extremely Tab Targetted, so no. i think its Likely far more alike this then "We sdont like Staff"

I Say this on the bases they've tried updated Ranged options and still Delve on the melee choices realistically, this isnt a Elementalist only problem. the ranged gameplay of All proffessions feel awful in this game.

Sword Weaver is why I bought this game. and Tbh a Ranged Elite would be enough to make me consider rerolling. without severe updates to the way ranged combat works theres no way on earth it'll feel as good as Melee and Will likely lead to a Ton of Nonse Moments of "Im stood at the feet of the boss with a bow the logic here is Quite Litterally hurting my head"

ofcourse there are People who like them. but the people who like them. are on forums Screeching because of how bad they are Lmao, thats the problem. Ranged Weapons are rarely made Actually strong, they're generally Just weaker versions of the Melee options. so on the odds of things. if they give Ele a Ranged choice. and we end up playing D/D For the entire expansion and Not the New Shiney ranged Weapon. they change the Screeching from "WE WANT RANGED ELITE" to "WHY U NO BUFF ELITE"

to stack with this.. giving a Proffession its Entire ranged Option via a elite? Would litterally mean the following one if melee and better.. Would Quite litterally cause a Future Riot about ranged getting stomped out... the only long term fix would litterally be the rework of core Ranged Weapons to prevent them being restricted to Only 1 Elite.

also to iterate

15 minutes ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

because staff and scepter are ridiculously slow

yah because Ranged "MAge" Weapons are about CASTING Abilities. and STATIONARY PLAY.

So yes, they're ridiculously Slow they're Susposed to be Slow. Just like Sceptre on Scourge has Cast times and Delayed affects.

Because being Ranged Casters is a SLOW Playstyle. its surrounding around casting abilities etc etc.

you cant make a Ranged weapon work like a Melee it has to be Slower then melee.

 

Edited January 27, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[draxynnic.3719]

I see the same ridiculous 'hur dur instanced PvE is all about stacking' argument is coming up again.

Counterpoint 1: Virtuoso. Harbinger. Specter. Arenanet clearly hasn't decided that melee is the only game in town, it's just elementalist, engineer, and warrior that they refuse to add additional ranged options to.

Counterpoint 2: You seem to be trying to exclude some weapons on the basis that most builds on other professions have melee weapons on the other set, but this is completely missing the point: being able to swap between a melee and a ranged option is a large part of the design of other professions. A lot of people were excited by Catalyst hammer until it turned out to be just like dagger in having a couple of token 600 range attacks while having an overall playstyle that locks it into melee.

Counterpoint 3: Just because someone dislikes staff and scepter because of their design and therefore prefers one of the elementalist melee weapons by default doesn't mean that they're not interested in another ranged option. In fact, if anything it might make them MORE interested in the possibility of a ranged option they might actually enjoy. I'm in that situation myself - I don't really enjoy staff or scepter that much and therefore dagger is my favourite elementalist weapon, but that doesn't mean that I think melee is inherently better than ranged. In fact, I generally try to avoid melee-exclusive builds outside of instanced PvE (with its stack-and-smack meta) and condi herald (because there is no ranged condi weapon suitable for herald or core rev).

Counterpoint 4: So, how does your 'melee stack-and-smack is all that matters' principle work against a boss with phasing? Or signaler bosses that move around a lot? Ley energy buildup where you regularly need to go off and stand near an orb to dissipate a stacking damage debuff? Or one of the many effect where they drop a powerful damaging field at their feet? Just because mechanics that punish melee stack-and-smack haven't meaningfully made it into the instanced group PvE that seems to be all you care about (yet) doesn't mean that they don't exist.

Counterpoint 5: It's interesting that you claim to represent the majority, yet there are a range of voices expressing discontent at elementalist getting yet another melee spec, while it's only you and a couple of others that show up to every thread talking about the issue to claim that it's not a problem in your eyes.

[Puck.3697]

50 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Counterpoint 1: Virtuoso. Harbinger. Specter. Arenanet clearly hasn't decided that melee is the only game in town, it's just elementalist, engineer, and warrior that they refuse to add additional ranged options to

Virtuosos dagger is also insanely bad. 

Harbinger when was using a ranged build got nerfed into a power build which is more melee centric

Spectre is a brand new role to thief and sceptar is litterally the only weapon thieves have to provide healing.

50 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Counterpoint 2: You seem to be trying to exclude some weapons on the basis that most builds on other professions have melee weapons on the other set, but this is completely missing the point: being able to swap between a melee and a ranged option is a large part of the design of other professions. A lot of people were excited by Catalyst hammer until it turned out to be just like dagger in having a couple of token 600 range attacks while having an overall playstyle that locks it into melee

Yes. Because for ele to inherit a ranged weapon as strong or stronger then melee weapons ele would have be fully ranged. 

So to compare circumstances you have to compare to fully ranged options and how successful they have been. 

Also it would have to nerfed and re-aligned to ensure its not just superior to melee options I.E 

Less damage, less sustain. 

50 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Counterpoint 3: Just because someone dislikes staff and scepter because of their design and therefore prefers one of the elementalist melee weapons by default doesn't mean that they're not interested in another ranged option. In fact, if anything it might make them MORE interested in the possibility of a ranged option they might actually enjoy. I'm in that situation myself - I don't really enjoy staff or scepter that much and therefore dagger is my favourite elementalist weapon, but that doesn't mean that I think melee is inherently better than ranged. In fact, I generally try to avoid melee-exclusive builds outside of instanced PvE (with its stack-and-smack meta) and condi herald (because there is no ranged condi weapon suitable for herald or core rev).

But it does argue against the concept Anet are out of touch with its playerbase. 

Ontop of this elementalist gaining a ranged weapon to then stack and smack makes no difference to meta. 

Gw2s ranged combat would require improving to do this

You can't be healed if you do not stack. 

You don't get boon Uptime if you do not stack. 

Your ignoring the factor here. 

For elementalist to gain a ranged weapon 

It would have to lose sustain and lose damage to balance it against a melee option. 

What good would longbow be to gw2 meta if longbow followed these rules? With even less sustain it will never compete in WvWvW or spvp. And with less damage it's never going to compete in PvE. 

If it's equal it will by default replace everyfging that currently exists. Balancing a pure ranged and pure melee in the same proffessions is incredibly hard and likely to end up being unused in the end result. 

You can't say "but ranger uses longbow". It is not a fully ranged option. Elementalist by default would be unless the same specc that drives longbow in also had weapon swap put onto it. 

Which at that factor where is the apprant gain? 

In spvp you need the active sustain of the Melee focused weapons. 

In WvWvW you won't survive the rain of red circles without sustain and In PvE your going to sit in the same blob of players for boon and healing. 

On a fundamental scale. I'm not saying ele never gets a ranged elite

I'm stating that gw2 needs a overhaul combat wise to make one successful 

Bringing up harbingers and virtuosos ranged weapons is pointless. If they aren't used.

Spectre is a support. Staff tempest is also a meta build. It's pretty common for support proffessions to use ranged weapons. 

 

Edited January 27, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Puck.3697]

51 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Counterpoint 5: It's interesting that you claim to represent the majority, yet there are a range of voices expressing discontent at elementalist getting yet another melee spec, while it's only you and a couple of others that show up to every thread talking about the issue to claim that it's not a problem in your eyes

Didn't not state this I simply stated that you can't state a opinon and claim to be a majority. 

52 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

it's just elementalist, engineer, and warrior that they refuse to add additional ranged options to

Yah. Elementalist got tempest. Warhorn is a ranged weapon and considering at the time sceptre+warhorn was the Condi build it did stand as a ranged build. 

Warrior is getting pistol. 

57 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Counterpoint 4: So, how does your 'melee stack-and-smack is all that matters' principle work against a boss with phasing? Or signaler bosses that move around a lot

If these were major factors more proffessions would use range centric builds 

[Jski.6180]

2 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

i would honestly be suprised if Elementalist got any Ranged Speccs Until the day Anet Remake Ranged Weapons. lets face it, every Elite thats brought a Ranged weapon to play. Dont play that weapon in majority of play. lets honestly look through it.

Deadeye. you dont use Dead in PvE At all realistically. its just weaker, In fractals it doesnt work, in Raids it doesnt work outside of handkiting and pylons, in SPVP its good memes but inferior. Like the only place it can be of some use is Tagging monsters in Metas (Shortbow does it better) and i dont think its even used in  WvWvW that much really.

Dragonhunter, Again some memes in SPVP. but not rly used in PvE Content at all.. i guess its used in WvWvW atleast.

Renegade, Shortbow was successful here, but ironically its Mixed with a Melee combination so ur still pretty much standing in melee with it anyway.

Scourge Torch as above its litterally the only successful Ranged weapon added to a Elite realistically.

the fact in 2 Expansions.. i can only even think of 4 Added Ranged weapons Total kinda gives the point here though. Anet tend to dodge giving ranged Weapons. because 9/10 times The Loss in Sustain with Lower DPS. Just has no place in PvE content. and the loss in sustain Generally affects you pretty hard in SPVP in most cases also.

Ranged combat in GW2 is shockingly Bad in all honesty. it always really has been. Boons being Radius bound makes being Ranged a DPS Loss as you dont get boons. Also because how healings done Generally you just make it a Pain in the kitten for a Healer to keep u alive.

the only job for ranged weapons, is Litterally handkiting.

i would possibly agree. if it wasnt for the fact the games Design itself Realistically goes against the existance of True Ranged gameplay

even if u use a Staff ur standing in the stack.

even if u use a lonbow your standing in the stack.

this game has No Real Ranged Gameplay, because how the games mechanics function, boons and healing Requires you to stack. the only place Ranged Weapons see some flexibility is WvWvW and thats only because ur a blob of people v a blob of people and being melee is Very dangerous.

and a 55k DPS Elite isnt "keeping ele out of content" Sure we know it'll be nerfed, but no one knows how much by realistically. it was doing 50k DPS While pumping out Quickness we also have the Significant changes and balancings Stated to come shrotly after EoD Regarding current core and Elites.

we dont rly have ground that after all these go through eles "Locked out of content". also.

Anet rly havent done anything to "keep ele out of content". the playerbase realistically do, theres nothing Unviable about playing this Proffession. its Still very competitive against other Options and its very capable of clearing all content.

Before we go into "Scourge renegade and firebrand" this is litterally keeping EVERY proffession out of Content in this sense. this isnt a Elementalist problem this is EVERYTHING but those 3 problem.

in SPVP. again the Problem Weaver has is What every sidenoder has.. Thief roaming Meta is Soo storng its Eliminated the role entirely. Weaver isnt the only one whos paid the price for that happening. Spellbreaker, Core ranger, Decap Druid and More all suffered it.

 

Well ya stacking is carrying i guess hehe. You cant even have a ture "ranged" support in this game due to most of the support being 240 to 600 its very anoying.

Out side of pve though there is some space to have a ranged class staff seems to be in for now unless they rework conja weapons (mostly frost bow it needs to be a 1,200 ranged wepon that dose NOT heal if they want a conja wepon to heal it should be a healing skills).

The game has no true "locked out of content" as most of the content is a joke for being hard but when it comes to the max and min ele is locked out of content. The ele becomes the excuse for ppl playing content and you start to see a "nice" group start to become toxic to the weaker classes.

There a lot about gw2 that dose not fit the balancing ideal or dose not even have a real game play effect much like your ranged views when ppl just stack but there also unblockables skills that are meaningless and boon strips too. Its kind of a complete mess for sure.

[Puck.3697]

13 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

Out side of pve though there is some space to have a ranged class staff seems to be in for now unless they rework conja weapons (mostly frost bow it needs to be a 1,200 ranged wepon that dose NOT heal if they want a conja wepon to heal it should be a healing skills).

I did actually say in a Prior. i think a rework of Conjures Could possibly give Elementalist its Unique factor as a trade off.

instead of Utility skills, Core ele gets Weapon Swap. through Weapon Swap, ur second weapon is a Fixed Conjured weapon which is Fixed to the attunement to one its Swapped into from with its own set of skills.

so it wouldnt be a Full weapon swap so it wouldnt make it insanely long. it'd have a CD on Weapon swap + Attunement. which would balance it out as it'll block u out of ur Active sustain in ur kit, while giving elementalist that possibility of having a Ranged weapon outside a PUre Ranged option so wouldnt require the same balancing as a Pure Ranged playstyle.

13 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

The game has no true "locked out of content" as most of the content is a joke for being hard but when it comes to the max and min ele is locked out of content. The ele becomes the excuse for ppl playing content and you start to see a "nice" group start to become toxic to the weaker classes.

you say this.. but in another post you say Anet do everything they can to keep "ele out of content". but it isnt. CMs are easily clearable by eles.. Grimjack has shown it can be effective in those places.

13 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

There a lot about gw2 that dose not fit the balancing ideal or dose not even have a real game play effect much like your ranged views when ppl just stack but there also unblockables skills that are meaningless and boon strips too. Its kind of a complete mess for sure.

Yes. the Stacking Requirements destroy any immersive attempt of Ranged gameplay. It'd be trash to get a Rangfed weapon to play it Exactly like a Melee option. and have its Sustain Reduced for the sake of retaining weavers Place so weaver would retain SPVP Builds.. and Staff tempest would remain WvWvW options or Cele Weaver

Theres no point fighting for a Elite weapon. if that elite weapon sees no play.

Deadeye is a Really good example of this concept, it doesnt feel good and if anything just feels like the profession got No new Elite... because u just use Daredevil in all content pretty much.

I mean lets consider this a moment

if Elementalist got a Pure Ranged area. what will realistically happen.

- Its going to have Cast times.

- Its going to lose Active sustain off that Weapon.

- Its going to do less Damage to balance out the ranged factor of it.

Now do u think this would really fit? how fast would u die, if they took the active sustain off Weaver. if it does Less Damage to Weaver.. and Gained Cast times and Delayed effects foir that mage feel.

could u honestly see it being a Meta?

Edited January 27, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[fuzzyp.6295]

I'll put money on Staff seeing a resurgence in use once people realize that the heavy combo weapon Staff works wonderfully with the heavy combo focused spec Catalyst.

Disclaimer: This is not me saying Staff doesn't need a buff, but range Elementalist will continue to chug along just fine. Just because something isn't meta doesn't make it unusable.

[Bast.7253]

I honestly think a bow would have made so much more sense anyway. I mean the hammer 3 skill is a bunch of orb projectiles and the projectiles from the jade sphere would be good finishers for a potential condi build if someone wanted to. 

Then for some of these leaps and auras they tacked onto this amalgamation of an elite they could have given movement abilities, like a consistent bow skill 4 being a leap finisher, skill 5 being a blast, etc. 

But now we get to play wack-a-mole with hammer and have no synergy with pretty much any of the elite spec.

[Jski.6180]

24 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

I did actually say in a Prior. i think a rework of Conjures Could possibly give Elementalist its Unique factor as a trade off.

instead of Utility skills, Core ele gets Weapon Swap. through Weapon Swap, ur second weapon is a Fixed Conjured weapon which is Fixed to the attunement to one its Swapped into from with its own set of skills.

so it wouldnt be a Full weapon swap so it wouldnt make it insanely long. it'd have a CD on Weapon swap + Attunement. which would balance it out as it'll block u out of ur Active sustain in ur kit, while giving elementalist that possibility of having a Ranged weapon outside a PUre Ranged option so wouldnt require the same balancing as a Pure Ranged playstyle.

you say this.. but in another post you say Anet do everything they can to keep "ele out of content". but it isnt. CMs are easily clearable by eles.. Grimjack has shown it can be effective in those places.

Yes. the Stacking Requirements destroy any immersive attempt of Ranged gameplay. It'd be trash to get a Rangfed weapon to play it Exactly like a Melee option. and have its Sustain Reduced for the sake of retaining weavers Place so weaver would retain SPVP Builds.. and Staff tempest would remain WvWvW options or Cele Weaver

Theres no point fighting for a Elite weapon. if that elite weapon sees no play.

Deadeye is a Really good example of this concept, it doesnt feel good and if anything just feels like the profession got No new Elite... because u just use Daredevil in all content pretty much.

I mean lets consider this a moment

if Elementalist got a Pure Ranged area. what will realistically happen.

- Its going to have Cast times.

- Its going to lose Active sustain off that Weapon.

- Its going to do less Damage to balance out the ranged factor of it.

Now do u think this would really fit? how fast would u die, if they took the active sustain off Weaver. if it does Less Damage to Weaver.. and Gained Cast times and Delayed effects foir that mage feel.

could u honestly see it being a Meta?

Its allways worst repeating is all conja wepons have been in such a bad places it needs to be said as often as can be.

I was coming at it "how do you make ele ranged if we are not getting another eleit spec for 4 + years." I dont see any skills that are not long raged now becoming so but there space for it in conaj weapons mostly frost bow.

Content in being part of the "boon game" having both the ability to apply strong boons as well as being able to counter strong boons (mostly striping in a real amount.) Its a question if an ele can be part of a type of combat not just being there as an token player or class. Anet has gone out of there way to keep ele out of types of combat though simply denying them effects. I think a tempest should be as an support class at least be part of the barrier support game play or a weaver being able to strip and or convert boons into the condi type of there current atument.

If you could make support skills like boon applying or even shouts ground target i think it would go a long way to letting ele become pure ranged. Also letting the ele provide its own powerful effects would go a long way to giving it a ranged game play.

If you as an ele do not stack on ppl you become stronger but take on a much higher risk of missing support should very much be part of an ele game play.

[Puck.3697]

5 minutes ago, Bast.7253 said:

honestly think a bow would have made so much more sense anyway. I mean the hammer 3 skill is a bunch of orb projectiles and the projectiles from the jade sphere would be good finishers for a potential condi build if someone wanted to. 

Then for some of these leaps and auras they tacked onto this amalgamation of an elite they could have given movement abilities, like a consistent bow skill 4 being a leap finisher, skill 5 being a blast, etc. 

But now we get to play wack-a-mole with hammer and have no synergy with pretty much any of the elite spec.

the issue is, this isnt a "bow salvation" its simply disagreeing with the mechanical view of Catalyst itself. i mean we gotta take into Account the fact that bow woulda never been given the sustain buffs hammer did. you'd be a 12k HP proffession with no evades no leaps and Lower mobility. Because if theydont do this. u replace melee options.

I mean honestly. go try raid with a Weaver without its barrier, its evades and Invun frames. you will downstate even faster and thats sadly a reality here

The problem is Catalysts mechanic aint that great and that needs fixing really.

3 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

If you as an ele do not stack on ppl you become stronger but take on a much higher risk of missing support should very much be part of an ele game play.

 

eeeh this sounds like a way of just forcing ranged Ele play to become a thing really. Ele doesnt need a bypass into Ranged play.

The power creep just needs Reverting surrounding boons realistically.

the reason why Weaver has no place in the meta right now is Massively down to the fact boon builds do too much Damage. Qucikness Firebrand, Alac Rens, Scourges all do too much dmg. knock 10k Damage off them and suddenly you will See things like ur Power DHs your Condi/hybrid Weavers and things in play realistically.

Its too much "Safe game" To stack Scourges, Firebrands and Renegades and stack the utility while taking a Small DPS hit then it'll ever be to take Top DPS proffessions. the kill times arent wide enough apart to warrant a Place in raids for Pure DPS.

[fuzzyp.6295]

8 minutes ago, Bast.7253 said:

I honestly think a bow would have made so much more sense anyway. I mean the hammer 3 skill is a bunch of orb projectiles and the projectiles from the jade sphere would be good finishers for a potential condi build if someone wanted to. 

Then for some of these leaps and auras they tacked onto this amalgamation of an elite they could have given movement abilities, like a consistent bow skill 4 being a leap finisher, skill 5 being a blast, etc. 

But now we get to play wack-a-mole with hammer and have no synergy with pretty much any of the elite spec.

I don't think a Bow would really work with what Catalyst has. Trying to leap through a field with a ranged weapon sounds weird. Range is all about positioning, you need to be very mobile whereas fields are stationary, limiting your positioning. Bow on what Catalyst is currently just sounds clunky AF.

Maybe if we had scrapper like fields that travel with us for combo game, that could have been more fun.

[Puck.3697]

Just now, fuzzyp.6295 said:

I don't think a Bow would really work with what Catalyst has. Trying to leap through a field with a ranged weapon sounds weird. Range is all about positioning, you need to be very mobile whereas fields are stationary, limiting your positioning. Bow on what Catalyst is currently just sounds clunky AF.

Maybe if we had scrapper like fields that travel with us for combo game, that could have been more fun.

the problem is:

its very hard to paint the picture in ur mind of what Anet would do wityh this New Design Philosphy if they gave Ele a Pure DPS Specc. u have to remember, Anet are now trying to match Core proffessions to these Elite proffessions, they've dropped em back down to 5 target, they are vigoress with Keeping damage below 40k DPS. and giving correct trade offs and balancing.

If Elementalist got bow.

you would lose sustain. Thwey'd take away the Active Sustain u have through ur weapons Kit.

They'd Nerf your Damage. the likelyhood is a Ranged Ele would likely amound to about 37k DPS in a full DPS Build and Quickness be even lower.

They're not going to make u more mobile thjen weaver.

Because if they do these things they make weaver redundent. this is a Specc thats going to provide the same role almost as Weaver. so it has to be balanced against Weaver. so everything u have Over weaver has to then lsoe something else that weaver has.

So Weaver has Evades on its weapons, longbow would lose this.

Weaver has Teleports and Mobile abilities, Longbow Would lose this

Weaver does 39k DPS. Longbow would be slightly lower.

TO retain this idea of "oh longbows a safe build" but "weaver does the role better" so u have this Idea of the double meta of "Win rate" v "Best execution".

its very easy to say "I Want a Ranged Weapon in GW2", but alot of people when they say "I Want a Ranged Weapon in GW2" actually mean:

"I Want a Ranged Specc to be my Meta build in guild wars 2". because if they gave us longbow and Then we found out Weavers still the Best SPVP Choice, Tempest is still the optimal choice in WvWvW and Weaver just Does more Damage in PvE. Very quickly. would players be back on the forums Screeching for buffs.

also ontop of that, why would you want this "Idealistic Perfect, Fun and Versatile Ranged weapon" Tied Directly to a Elite on a proffession Notorious for Replacing the Prior Especc with the New Especc in some form of power creep?. ur calling ur own Doomsday 2 years Prematurily.

If we're looking Longevity wise, several stages need to be crossed.

- Make Boons Raid wide. Not Radius Wide so players Can spread Out

- Create Punishing mechanics that'll make raid teams want both Ranged and Melee DPS. by giving ranged a Role in PvE which melee cannot do.

- Make PvE Tougher on Melee Builds.

- give Ranged More skill shot abilities and things to reduce the feeling of playing a tab target game when doing it.

If you make Ranged choices Vital to Raid mechanics and give them clear strengths the DPS Loss of having one wont weigh it out effectively, this way it isnt "only when it happens to be broken" we see them getting used.

Then i'd be more in favor of Staff and Sceptre being Reworked. and maybe turn Conjured weapons into a mechanic or a More interesting tool to give that ranged capability to Melee Builds.

[fuzzyp.6295]

4 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

snip

Not disagreeing with anything you said about the loss of sustain or changes of melee v range.

I was just saying that for a class that focuses heavy on comboing with fields to actually be range, you would need more freedom to access fields.

Fields are stationary and work better as a mechanic with Melee if you're gonna be focused on self buffs like the current aura focused Cata.  If they were to do anything with fields and longbows for a 'what if...' style of catalyst, the only way I could see it working is if the fields traveled with the Ele to let you move around and combo much more effectively.  That way you can reposition yourself (as is important in all range builds due to lack of sustain) and still have more fluid access to combos instead of being locked down in one place.

[Jski.6180]

19 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

the issue is, this isnt a "bow salvation" its simply disagreeing with the mechanical view of Catalyst itself. i mean we gotta take into Account the fact that bow woulda never been given the sustain buffs hammer did. you'd be a 12k HP proffession with no evades no leaps and Lower mobility. Because if theydont do this. u replace melee options.

I mean honestly. go try raid with a Weaver without its barrier, its evades and Invun frames. you will downstate even faster and thats sadly a reality here

The problem is Catalysts mechanic aint that great and that needs fixing really.

 

eeeh this sounds like a way of just forcing ranged Ele play to become a thing really. Ele doesnt need a bypass into Ranged play.

The power creep just needs Reverting surrounding boons realistically.

the reason why Weaver has no place in the meta right now is Massively down to the fact boon builds do too much Damage. Qucikness Firebrand, Alac Rens, Scourges all do too much dmg. knock 10k Damage off them and suddenly you will See things like ur Power DHs your Condi/hybrid Weavers and things in play realistically.

Its too much "Safe game" To stack Scourges, Firebrands and Renegades and stack the utility while taking a Small DPS hit then it'll ever be to take Top DPS proffessions. the kill times arent wide enough apart to warrant a Place in raids for Pure DPS.

You want to hit as many ppl as you can with your boons if ele is going to be alone in any way or we are just going to have a "ranged stack" your back to the same problem. Given an ele the ability to give it self boons is part of the game and should be a much bigger part of playing the ele class.

[Puck.3697]

1 minute ago, Jski.6180 said:

You want to hit as many ppl as you can with your boons if ele is going to be alone in any way or we are just going to have a "ranged stack" your back to the same problem. Given an ele the ability to give it self boons is part of the game and should be a much bigger part of playing the ele class.

You sadly won't avoid stacking. 

World of Warcraft, will always stack. 

FFXIV will always stack. 

Gw2 will always stack. 

It's the most effective way to keep your raid in the right place realistically. 

That's not undoable and trying to undo it would likely not work out as you think it would. As generally due to how mechanics work it'd just get you as a player murdered the only way you would is to have continous mechanics going off forcing movement on players to deal with them. But that'd be servely unhealthy turn to rly take to force such a thing 

 

. 

Edited January 27, 2022 by Daddy.8125