Tinfoil hat Dsd speculation

[Kayberz.5346]

I will preface this post by saying im not necessarily convinced that what im about to say is the actual lore, just some fun spitballing of ideas that have potential to end up being true

 

The more i think about what limited info he have the more im starting to lean on the idea that the deep sea dragon has been absent this entire time because they are literally trapped in the jade sea.

 

Now, some may point to the pre gw2 lore about the krait/quaggan/largos being driven from their homes in the unending ocean by "horrors" in the deep as debunking this notion, which is a fair point. However, they never do mention the presence of an elder dragon actually being in the unending ocean, just that what are likely the minions of said dragon being present. It is entirely possible that the minions/scion/champions of DSD are present in the unending ocean but the actual DSD themself isn't.

The jade sea was named such even before shiro solidified it because it apparently always had somewhat of a green hue to the water. The idea im proposing is that the jade sea was actually created by the DSD, or like how mordremoth was the jungle,  the jade sea IS the DSD and this is the location that they went to sleep thousands of years ago, but its champion/scion/minions were in the unending ocean as well. The DSD has been awake this entire time since around the same time the others started waking up but has been physically trapped inside of their place of slumber by the jade wind. Its minions in the unending ocean are active but are mostly kept at bay by the largos/krait/naga ect. Because they dont have the direct support of the DSD currently

If this were the case it would potentially explain why the color of the jade is so vibrantly green compared to its appearance in gw1, because as the DSD absorbs more magic the green hue becomes even more intense.  It was always an unusual color of green, possibly because the "water" in the jade sea is either being effected by the presence of the DSD tainting it or the "water" is literally the DSDs "body" or physical form.

If all this crazy speculation were to be true, it would also mean that dragonjade would essentially be using DSD magic, which potentially could also mean that the DSD might have the ability to take control of any dragonjade technology if they wish, because its literally just an extension of them.

 

Once again ill say im not really wholly invested in this theory being correct, just thought I'd share some random ideas that i think could tie together the sparse info we have so far

[Randulf.7614]

We know the DSD awoke in the Unending Ocean though. There’s not much info we have, but we do know the DSD was far out to sea. I personally quite like the idea of a trapped Sea Dragon being siphoned and awakening to cause a new cataclysm, but I can’t how see it fits.

 

I do like the idea of the Dragonjade tech being taken over by the Dragon. That is suitably apocalyptic, although very hard to pull off the way it is currently integrated. Overall I like your idea, but it doesn’t feel set up in that direction.

 

Also, was the Jade Sea really called that before it became Jade?

Edited January 26, 2022 by Randulf.7614

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

19 minutes ago, Randulf.7614 said:

Also, was the Jade Sea really called that before it became Jade?

Apparently so:

The Kurzicks of Echovald Forest and the Luxons of the now literally named Jade Sea have regained a great deal of their former independence, in fact, whatever their "ruler" in Cantha may say.

[...]

Everything the wave touched turned to stone. The Echovald Forest became utterly petrified. The Jade Sea's name became distressingly literal as the waves crystallized and were transformed. Anything living that was caught in the direct path of this "Jade Wind" suffered the same fate, leaving behind grisly relics

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/An_Empire_Divided

I believe it was called the Jade Sea beforehand due to its coloring, and not the material it was turned into. I recall such being mentioned, but not seeing it there.

[Randulf.7614]

Huh, genuinely did not notice that and I read those instruction manuals a million times lol

Edited January 26, 2022 by Randulf.7614

[Kayberz.5346]

1 hour ago, Randulf.7614 said:

We know the DSD awoke in the Unending Ocean though. There’s not much info we have, but we do know the DSD was far out to sea. I personally quite like the idea of a trapped Sea Dragon being siphoned and awakening to cause a new cataclysm, but I can’t how see it fits.

 

I do like the idea of the Dragonjade tech being taken over by the Dragon. That is suitably apocalyptic, although very hard to pull off the way it is currently integrated. Overall I like your idea, but it doesn’t feel set up in that direction.

 

Also, was the Jade Sea really called that before it became Jade?

But we actually dont "know" that the deep sea dragon awoke in the unending ocean, i literally mention this point specifically in my post

 

The only thing we are told is that monsters deep in the unending ocean drove the aquatic races from their homes. These monsters could merely be minions of the DSD and not the DSD themself,  and they are active because the DSD has awoken but is not necessarily themselves physically in the unending ocean, they present the information in a way that heavily implies that a dragon is in the ocean but they dont outright confirm it.

The other races displaced by dragons know it was an elder dragon, but none of the aquatic races ever mention there being a dragon in the ocean

And every time the water dragon is brought up like by taimi the narrative makes a point to mention that it is "speculated" that there is a dragon in the ocean but they strangely never confirm it even though the aquatic races should theoretically be able to do so, but they seemingly aren't aware of a dragon either,  only the monsters which are likely its minions.

 

But again, i think it is most likely that the DSD is indeed in the unending ocean,  however there is room for that not to be the case and Anet this entire time may have been trying to make us all assume that, all the info we have on the DSD has been intentionally vague even though it seems so blatantly obvious that they should be in the unending ocean 

Edited January 26, 2022 by Kayberz.5346

[Randulf.7614]

The issue I have with it not being in the Unending Ocean is that if it was in the Jade or by Cantha, Cantha would be under siege from minions for decades and would show signs of such ravages rather than a whole area dedicated to mining. Whilst expect the minions to be more spread in the territory, we have so far seen the minions always start from their respective Elder Dragon and fan out or follow and cluster round their ED. There have been no reports of such intense unnatural storms or horrors elsewhere and we know there have been visitors from Cantha including the Zephyrites. Surely someone would have mentioned that Cantha has long been under attack by deep sea horrors, even with the border closed.

 

Everything points to the DSD waking up in the Ocean, even if I prefer your idea as a story thread and also from a gameplay perspective 

Edited January 26, 2022 by Randulf.7614

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

2 hours ago, Randulf.7614 said:

The issue I have with it not being in the Unending Ocean is that if it was in the Jade or by Cantha, Cantha would be under siege from minions for decades and would show signs of such ravages rather than a whole area dedicated to mining. Whilst expect the minions to be more spread in the territory, we have so far seen the minions always start from their respective Elder Dragon and fan out or follow and cluster round their ED. There have been no reports of such intense unnatural storms or horrors elsewhere and we know there have been visitors from Cantha including the Zephyrites. Surely someone would have mentioned that Cantha has long been under attack by deep sea horrors, even with the border closed.

Pretty much this. If the DSD awoke in Cantha we would expect far more reports of Cantha being under siege from DSD minions.

[Narcemus.1348]

I go back and forth about whether I like the trapped Elder Dragon idea. This proposition does sound slightly different as you propose that the body of the Elder Dragon IS the dragon Jade, rather than the dragon being trapped in the Jade.

 

Many have discussed the idea of the dragon being trapped beneath the Jade keeping it from doing anything which I struggle to believe. When dragons awake many of them do big earth shattering things. Zhaitan rose a peninsula from beneath the waves and Jormag broke the far Shiverpeaks creating a large inland sea (I believe this was discussed). So why couldn't the DSD have shattered the Jade Sea or erupted from beneath.

 

Sadly, there are too many unknowns for us to make any meaningful debate. Could the effects of the Dragon Jade be enough to dampen an Elder Dragon's power? Perhaps. We just don't know. So I'll just sit and wait for now allowing the game to show me in a month or so.

[Randulf.7614]

I’d be open to a champion like Drakkar being trapped there. We would still have minions nearby, but to a much lesser extent to make it more plausible. And we know so little about the Jade Maw

[Fueki.4753]

Selbbub is not in the Jade Sea. If it suddenly ended up having been trapped in there all along, that'd be a bloody disgusting retcon.

I very much hope Selbbub won't be part of the base expansion story, but Season 6 afterwards. The maps for that season could be South-East of Elona, along the Northern and Eastern coasts of the Unending Sea.

Edited January 27, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

3 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Selbbub is not in the Jade Sea. If it suddenly ended up having been trapped in there all along, that'd be a bloody disgusting retcon.

I very much hope Selbbub won't be part of the base expansion story, but Season 6 afterwards. The maps for that season could be South-East of Elona, along the Northern and Eastern coasts of the Unending Sea.

I very much doubt they would go back to Elona for LWS6. LWS6 is going to be more Cantha akin to how LWS4 was more Elona after PoF.

At best we get another random map like Dragonfall where we go to the Battle Isles(or whats left of them/them risen out of the sea) for the final battle with Bubbles.

Anet has clearly given up on underwater content(hence no Aurene legendary water weapons) so I wouldn't expect much water focused maps either.

Edited January 27, 2022 by Sajuuk Khar.1509

[Fueki.4753]

47 minutes ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

I very much doubt they would go back to Elona for LWS6. LWS6 is going to be more Cantha akin to how LWS4 was more Elona after PoF.

I was actually thinking of maps that are beyond Cantha, which have never been explored in either of the two games, like the Forsaken Cliffs, Kim and Dahye.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/a/ac/Tyria_world_fan_map.jpg

I certainly hope, they completely wrap up that toxic green insult of Cantha within the expansion, so we don't have to deal with that stuff in Season 6. All the Canthan maps connecting to the Unending Ocean already are covered by the expansion, so if Arenanet wanted to tackle Selbbub and the Unending Ocean in Season 6, we need the maps on the opposite side.

Edited January 27, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

22 hours ago, Randulf.7614 said:

The issue I have with it not being in the Unending Ocean is that if it was in the Jade or by Cantha, Cantha would be under siege from minions for decades and would show signs of such ravages rather than a whole area dedicated to mining. Whilst expect the minions to be more spread in the territory, we have so far seen the minions always start from their respective Elder Dragon and fan out or follow and cluster round their ED. There have been no reports of such intense unnatural storms or horrors elsewhere and we know there have been visitors from Cantha including the Zephyrites. Surely someone would have mentioned that Cantha has long been under attack by deep sea horrors, even with the border closed.

 

Everything points to the DSD waking up in the Ocean, even if I prefer your idea as a story thread and also from a gameplay perspective 

Additionally, both the vision during The Machine and the trial during City of Hope in S2 and HoT respectively suggest the DSD woke up second - between Primordus and Jormag (during The Machine, the other 5 orbs light up in waking order, while during City of Hope we fight minions in the other five's waking order).

Contact with Cantha was cut off with Zhaitan's rise. There should have been anywhere between 50 and 100 years of info from Cantha about the DSD, if it woke up anywhere near, let alone in, Cantha.

10 hours ago, Narcemus.1348 said:

Many have discussed the idea of the dragon being trapped beneath the Jade keeping it from doing anything which I struggle to believe. When dragons awake many of them do big earth shattering things. Zhaitan rose a peninsula from beneath the waves and Jormag broke the far Shiverpeaks creating a large inland sea (I believe this was discussed). So why couldn't the DSD have shattered the Jade Sea or erupted from beneath.

This is exactly my issue with all the "DSD woke up in/near Cantha" theories. Whether frozen inside the Jade Sea or elsewhere, if it woke up in Cantha, it would have done something big. Every Elder Dragon sans Primordus fundamentally altered the landscape on waking up - and Primordus still caused major strife. The DSD's waking would make big waves wherever it woke up (no pun intended). And as said above, S2+HoT implies the DSD woke up between Primordus and Jormag, before contact was cut.

Before S2 and the Zephyrites visiting Cantha was a thing, the theory was much more plausible despite the krait and quaggan lore. But after S2 it just felt very unlikely.

Unless they retcon Jeff Grubb's statements that the DSD is just as evil as the others, and the DSD didn't cause major damage because it isn't an evil Elder Dragon. But then we have the plothole of what exactly the krait, quaggan, karka, and largos all fled while proclaiming "Elder Dragon influence!"

Edited January 27, 2022 by Konig Des Todes.2086

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

3 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

I was actually thinking of maps that are beyond Cantha, which have never been explored in either of the two games, like the Forsaken Cliffs, Kim and Dahye.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/a/ac/Tyria_world_fan_map.jpg

I certainly hope, they completely wrap up that toxic green insult of Cantha within the expansion, so we don't have to deal with that stuff in Season 6. All the Canthan maps connecting to the Unending Ocean already are covered by the expansion, so if Arenanet wanted to tackle Selbbub and the Unending Ocean in Season 6, we need the maps on the opposite side.

I would be very surprised if we ever go to any of those locations. There's more then enough space in Cantha for most of LWS6 to take place there(especially if they use IBS style maps ala Bjora/Drizzlewood where they come in two parters) not to mention the rest of Elona, the Crystal Desert, the Maguuma wastes, the Woodland Cascades, etc. that could have maps in future LW seasons.

If we get a brand new area after EoD I suspect it will be after LWS6, and in the opposite direction, toward the "Sunken Islands" and the "Wetland" continent. Where the trade routes suggest the 4th human land that Doern Velazquez likely comes from.

Though with the expansion being titled "End of Dragons", having the tagline "the cycle is reborn", and the logo showing two dragons, one of which is coming from under the water, I would be surprised if EoD doesn't involve Bubbles' death, or at least a heavy focus on him with LWS6 in Cantha/Battle Isles involving finishing him off.

Edited January 27, 2022 by Sajuuk Khar.1509

[maxwelgm.4315]

Since this is the tinfoil hat topic, I'd say that no underwater Aurene weapons does not necessarily imply no underwater content at all involving the DSD - it was specifically pointed out for the new turtle mount (and it might not be the only mount we get) that it would have a novel interaction with water environments by being able to walk on the sea floor. Likewise we already have gotten a mastery for taking Skimmers underwater and there are underwater legendaries even if Anet is not wasting development on new skins (and given the TP price of gen 1, it would unfortunately probably have been a waste indeed). UW content is not fleshed out and they can't seem to improve it, but that doesn't mean they won't have some underwater sections or meaningful underwater exploration even with the current state of it.

 

But about the topic itself - there's a very high chance the DSD is not physically close to Cantha simply due to plot reasons. It makes more sense from a writing point of view to first explore Dragonjade as a plot element in full before connecting it to previous points like the DSD itself and the rest of Tyria. Since the exploration of this resource is causing inner conflict and threatening the stability of Cantha (probably worsened by the Pact murdering two more Elder Dragons), the expansion can very well dedicate all of its 4, maybe 5 maps to deal with this situation, and only once we have explored it enough then we can link Cantha and Dragonjade to the DSD, likely in a Living World season that would allow overarching metas like Drizzlewood or (I hope not) public instances like Dragonstorm.

[Fueki.4753]

1 hour ago, maxwelgm.4315 said:

it was specifically pointed out for the new turtle mount (and it might not be the only mount we get) that it would have a novel interaction with water environments by being able to walk on the sea floor. Likewise we already have gotten a mastery for taking Skimmers underwater

And both of these can easily interpreted as circumventing underwater content and mechanics as best as possible.

With the Skimmer you can get quickly in and quickly out of the water, reducing the time spend underwater.

With the turtle, you simply stroll on the sea floor, which removes most of the movement along the z-axis that naturally occurs when diving properly diving. And if the combat skills are available underwater, the turtle also let's you circumvent the underwater weapons skill that's haven't been touched in too long.

Adding in the information that Arenanet simply can't be bothered to design any underwater legendaries or even regular underwater skins, it's a pretty clear sign of them telling us to gtfo of the water.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

10 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

And both of these can easily interpreted as circumventing underwater content and mechanics as best as possible.

To be fair, that same argument can be made with land mounts...

[maxwelgm.4315]

18 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

And both of these can easily interpreted as circumventing underwater content and mechanics as best as possible.

With the Skimmer you can get quickly in and quickly out of the water, reducing the time spend underwater.

With the turtle, you simply stroll on the sea floor, which removes most of the movement along the z-axis that naturally occurs when diving properly diving. And if the combat skills are available underwater, the turtle also let's you circumvent the underwater weapons skill that's haven't been touched in too long.

Adding in the information that Arenanet simply can't be bothered to design any underwater legendaries or even regular underwater skins, it's a pretty clear sign of them telling us to gtfo of the water.

They have already fully circumvented underwater content and mechanics. Turtles and Skimmers are additions regardless of how we want to look at it. The fact that they don't seem to want to promote underwater combat does not mean they don't want to have some leg room to add underwater gameplay in some alternative manner, which can still be engaging enough to feature the Elder Dragon (the climax of LW4 started as a flying mini-game, to mention one example). But regardless, for the sake of staying on-topic, it would just be an excuse to go to the Unending Ocean without underwater combat but still not requiring the DSD to come to us/be too close to Cantha itself, as well as have extra things to the Skiff gameplay which might definitely feature combat in some form if you can ferry others across water bodies.

[Doggie.3184]

The ocean is gigantic so I'd assume it's absence is just because of how far away it is. The minions are all swarming the ocean eating Quaggans and ships that go out too far. The other dragons that died will super-power it up I guess and make senpai notice us. If it's lurking around but never seen by the moist races it could easily be explained by the fact that they fled from the minions who were essentially a vast wall between them since dragons are lazy and send out their minions before themselves.