Gear and weapons for Power Virtuoso (PVE only)

[Adah.8371]

Hello Tyria!

Do you believe that the Power Virtuoso would have to use Berserker or Marauder (or something else?) as weapons and gear? -> for PVE content only (mostly fractals).

Trying to work on it before the exp. 🙂

 

I thought Zerk would be the go to but it's very fragile and I see a lot of Marauders build.

Thanks for sharing your opinion.

Have a lovely Sunday!

[Justine.6351]

Either is fine I'm sure. Its far easier to crit cap with mara of course.

[Puck.3697]

Likely berserker in fractals mauraders don't tend to really get used. 

Prolly gonna be played alike chrono... Although by the looks of it chrono will remain better unless dagger gets alot better. 

[mage from the hood.5129]

It will use the setup very similar to DT pChrono with the exception of accuracy sigils, so berserkers and mix of assassins to crit cap. The ratio of assassins/berserkers in fractals will depend on the amount of agony you're going to have. There's also a high chance the dagger/sword + greatsword setup will become very popular. 

As for marauders, I wouldn't really recommend it for mesmer in general, because it barely affects your over survivability, and you're not as squishy as zerker ele, for example, so most attacks won't straight up 1shot you.

Any regular t4 group will have a support that will heal you and most likely provide stability and aegis, so extra vitality will just be a wasted stat. And if supports won't, or if you just facetank everything, or your group is bad, you will die anyway. And more advanced groups will cc and phase bosses quickly enough for you to not get hit to death.

But it's not like the world's gonna end if you play with marauder's if you feel like that's your thing, most regular t4 enjoyers probably won't even notice it granted you are able to pull off your rotation and mechanics. 

Edited February 6, 2022 by mage from the hood.5129

[Salt Mode.3780]

Fact that Virtuoso requires 5 blades to do less damage then Chrono with 3 clones and IP as well as at least Chrono provides boons etc, I don't see marauders will help Virtuoso's damage. Virtuoso's damage was based on a raid setting with the max boon uptime with multiple classes giving it different boons.

[Adah.8371]

Thanks for having taking the time to answer me everyone.

So it will be Berserker, then!

[Levetty.1279]

On 2/6/2022 at 10:26 PM, mage from the hood.5129 said:

There's also a high chance the dagger/sword + greatsword setup will become very popular. 

How? Dagger does way less damage then Sword after the last beta.

[mage from the hood.5129]

7 minutes ago, Levetty.1279 said:

How? Dagger does way less damage then Sword after the last beta.

Well, during testing dagger setups (d/s+s/f and d/s+gs) turned out to have better dps than those with sword only, even with reduced damage coefficients. So apparently the entirety of dagger kit being damage oriented, as well as dagger 2 providing solid blade generation is enough for it to pull ahead. 

[Salt Mode.3780]

until people realize that Virtuoso offers nothing else but chrono does....

[Mik.3401]

Much of virtuosos damage comes from shatters which are single target as opposed to small aoe in other mesmers. So for boss fights virtuoso should be just alright as it doesn’t have continuum split nor ambushes. The condi single target spike from F2 is good. But for any fights in between? Useless in my opinion. You can still pull it off if you really want by going Full glass zerker or viper. Just need to keep in mind you will underperform. I think marauder has too little power in this setting 

Edited February 8, 2022 by Mik.3401

[Noodle Ant.1605]

2 hours ago, Mik.3401 said:

Much of virtuosos damage comes from shatters which are single target as opposed to small aoe in other mesmers. So for boss fights virtuoso should be just alright as it doesn’t have continuum split nor ambushes. The condi single target spike from F2 is good. But for any fights in between? Useless in my opinion.

virts shatters arent at all any more powerful than core/chrono when used repeatedly and is similarly only 10% of its total dps when wailing on a hp sponge. its main difference in usage from core/chrono shatters is how encounters can be opened with a maximum-power f1 (since blades can be carried and stocked out of combat), which can be enough to leave most trash mobs 1-3 autoattacks from death, whilst core/chrono may have to settle for a weaker, low-clone shatter (meaning additional skills may need to be used) to kill the same enemies in good time

”fights in between” are rarely solely settled with shatters alone, which fortunately for virt is still only 10% of its entire arsenal. however, a lot of dmg seems to be coming from phantasm-related skills again, which would indeed make it feel a bit useless or weak without considered management of skills

[Mik.3401]

20 minutes ago, Noodle Ant.1605 said:

virts shatters arent at all any more powerful than core/chrono when used repeatedly and is similarly only 10% of its total dps when wailing on a hp sponge. its main difference in usage from core/chrono shatters is how encounters can be opened with a maximum-power f1 (since blades can be carried and stocked out of combat), which can be enough to leave most trash mobs 1-3 autoattacks from death, whilst core/chrono may have to settle for a weaker, low-clone shatter (meaning additional skills may need to be used) to kill the same enemies in good time

”fights in between” are rarely solely settled with shatters alone, which fortunately for virt is still only 10% of its entire arsenal. however, a lot of dmg seems to be coming from phantasm-related skills again, which would indeed make it feel a bit useless or weak without considered management of skills

This is exactly what I mean , it is just single target instead of multi target shatters at the end. Encounters in between are settled using quick generation of clones, phantasms , weapon and shatter burst. It’s actually very quick. For virtuoso the shatter burst I deducted from the equation so one will need to wait for recharges and auto attack in between. Sword autos are very powerful but still. Least they have the blades stocking up for dat another single target.

[Levetty.1279]

7 hours ago, Noodle Ant.1605 said:

its main difference in usage from core/chrono shatters is how encounters can be opened with a maximum-power f1 (since blades can be carried and stocked out of combat), which can be enough to leave most trash mobs 1-3 autoattacks from death, whilst core/chrono may have to settle for a weaker, low-clone shatter (meaning additional skills may need to be used) to kill the same enemies in good time

Except a one clone shatter from core/chrono does the same damage as a 5 blade shatter from Virt and because of the cast times on Virt you could throw in the clone generation and something like blurred frenzy, mirror blade or whatever else on core/chrono and take just as long.

[mungozen.2379]

7 hours ago, Mik.3401 said:

This is exactly what I mean , it is just single target instead of multi target shatters at the end. Encounters in between are settled using quick generation of clones, phantasms , weapon and shatter burst. It’s actually very quick. For virtuoso the shatter burst I deducted from the equation so one will need to wait for recharges and auto attack in between. Sword autos are very powerful but still. Least they have the blades stocking up for dat another single target.

Bladesong Harmony and Bladesong Sorrow are 5 target?  What am I missing here?  Is it that it is Piercing as opposed to AoE?

[Noodle Ant.1605]

21 minutes ago, Levetty.1279 said:

Except a one clone shatter from core/chrono does the same damage as a 5 blade shatter from Virt and because of the cast times on Virt you could throw in the clone generation and something like blurred frenzy, mirror blade or whatever else on core/chrono and take just as long.

except this is pve, where core shatters always have a lower coeff than 5 blade f1 and chrono needs 2+ clones (and time for the 2nd hit), not to mention virt also packs more dmg% mods and free stats can which push it a little further (so only chrono 3 clone is stronger)

i dont think ttk trash is that arguable here, the virt could just as easily bladecall/unstable bladestorm before, mind stab after or mantra of pain during f1. overall its also using less skills as well. but what virt actually doesnt have is the liberty to throw out quick low-clone shatters after the first, which may or may not be relevant depending on the player (and their skill) and situation

[Salt Mode.3780]

50 minutes ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

Bladesong Harmony and Bladesong Sorrow are 5 target?  What am I missing here?  Is it that it is Piercing as opposed to AoE?

AoE implies that it just needs to be around the premises of the skill where as Piercing is you have to be in the same line of ur first target that is a difference....Being bladesongs being so narrow unless its a cluster of mobs tightly packed together you wont get much value of piercing.

[mungozen.2379]

7 minutes ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

AoE implies that it just needs to be around the premises of the skill where as Piercing is you have to be in the same line of ur first target that is a difference....Being bladesongs being so narrow unless its a cluster of mobs tightly packed together you wont get much value of piercing.

I see what you mean.  I actually appreciate this difference as a 240 unit radius circle vs a 1200 unit line give you different tactical options.  I would be interested to know how wide the Bladesong is when it shoots in a strait line.  In my testing during Beta 4 I found it relatively easy to line up mobs in PvE to maximize the Pierce and I didn't feel like 'hey it's missing that mob in front of me'.  There was a learning curve but, nominal.

I would be interested to see how this plays out in competitive mods, some big brain players will break it within a few days I am sure.

[Mik.3401]

7 hours ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

I see what you mean.  I actually appreciate this difference as a 240 unit radius circle vs a 1200 unit line give you different tactical options.  I would be interested to know how wide the Bladesong is when it shoots in a strait line.  In my testing during Beta 4 I found it relatively easy to line up mobs in PvE to maximize the Pierce and I didn't feel like 'hey it's missing that mob in front of me'.  There was a learning curve but, nominal.

I would be interested to see how this plays out in competitive mods, some big brain players will break it within a few days I am sure.

The problem with such strategy is that virtuosos shatters take long time to cast. So using them in the way you described will be Very hard. Meanwhile any other Mesmer can just vomit all clones and instacast aoe shatters - strictly superior.

[Levetty.1279]

8 hours ago, Noodle Ant.1605 said:

except this is pve

Yes so everything I said was true.

 

8 hours ago, Noodle Ant.1605 said:

the virt could just as easily bladecall/unstable bladestorm before, mind stab after or mantra of pain during f1.

The point was that core/chrono could do all that in the time it takes Virt to cast the shatter. 

[Noodle Ant.1605]

2 hours ago, Levetty.1279 said:

Yes so everything I said was true.

how

in pve, 1 clone mind wrack is 66% of 5 blade f1. 1 clone split second is initally 44%, and 88% 1s later when the 2nd hit goes off. core/chrono are objectively settling for weaker shatters at this point

2 hours ago, Levetty.1279 said:

The point was that core/chrono could do all that in the time it takes Virt to cast the shatter. 

the examples you used take require more skills/buttons, on top of having to get into melee range, to pull off compared to one virt f1 cast (assuming blades are stocked beforehand). either way, ttk trash wasnt my main point anyway, i was just saying that current difference between virt shatters and core/chrono is not so much its damage or value, but when and how it can be used. id like to remind again that shatters are only ~10% of mesmers (including all of core/chrono/virt) total arsenal, and it would be wise not to overestimate its value (given this is pve anyway, where anything goes)

realistically speaking, virt wont have max blades to shatter all the time, so it will be far more reliant on the other 90%, especially phantasms (~15%) and the phantasmal blades trait (~20%, does amount this strike anyone as odd?)

[Salt Mode.3780]

Lol Virtuoso is ranged but will be in melee to shatter anyways with how elevation can literally make ur shatters miss. Range means nothing for Virtuoso especially in higher end PvE content where stacking MELEE is how the game is played. Again would like to remind you that Chrono offers much more then just raw DPS, so if you are subbing Virtuoso that literally offers nothing but damage and it's damage is not amazing to a point where it can replace a role that can provide both DPS AND utility. 

[Brycar.2651]

What is the advice on the off hand weapon for PVE ?

[Mik.3401]

9 hours ago, Brycar.2651 said:

What is the advice on the off hand weapon for PVE ?

Any offhand is good on Mesmer just go with what is recommended for other power or condi Mesmers. Their interaction with weapons is just the same. Just worth to keep in mind you cannot rely on aoe shatters.

[Levetty.1279]

On 2/9/2022 at 12:48 PM, Noodle Ant.1605 said:

the examples you used take require more skills/buttons

All of which can be done by the time it takes to cast the Virt shatter.

[Noodle Ant.1605]

2 hours ago, Levetty.1279 said:

All of which can be done by the time it takes to cast the Virt shatter.

yeah, lets throw in mirror images + mantra of pain etc, as well so the combo does more dmg than 1 virt f1 while taking the same time to cast. this is why ttk trash (or dps) was never my main point

the core/chrono has used up shatter + other skills, whereas virt f1 only used up the shatter… it still has those other skills for additional or later use. core/chrono might be settling for weaker shatter coefficients (doesnt mean its necessarily worse) but whether any of this actually means anything, again depends on the player and situation

ofc virt shatters are probably garbage if you try to use it in the exact same way as core/chrono though