Love the new elite specialisations

[Mesket.5728]

On 2/19/2022 at 7:31 PM, Mell.4873 said:

I read alot of threads of saying people won't play the new elite specialisation because in terms of numbers the old ones are better. 

I would say what do you expect, the power creap would be too real if they where to up the numbers. I mean nothing will beat chronomancer 3 clone shatter on a golem but give virtuoso shatter a raid boss or aoe fight and they do more damage.

Same thing with untamed, I mean people wanted a no pet class but that is literally soulbeast where there is no point in using the pet since command skills become OP when merged. Untamed provides a stronger pet where you can avoid the messy AI by teleporting the pet into battle.

 

Edit: Not to bad of a response all things considering. 

 

Numbers are meaningless. We all know they go up and down with every balance patch. What matters is that they are weird. Most mechanics are odd and dont go well with the current pace of combat. Whats bad about it is that mumbers will never fix some of them. For some players like me, at this point, that's a deal breaker.

[Mell.4873]

48 minutes ago, Mesket.5728 said:

Numbers are meaningless. We all know they go up and down with every balance patch. What matters is that they are weird. Most mechanics are odd and dont go well with the current pace of combat. Whats bad about it is that mumbers will never fix some of them. For some players like me, at this point, that's a deal breaker.

Okay, I guess I just like the new elite specialisations especially ranger and mesmer ones. I guess I'm in the minority, I could see the number issue being justification for why they don't like it. 

[Mell.4873]

10 hours ago, Levetty.1279 said:

Virtuoso shatters do less damage, have less aoe and take longer to cast.

 

You also seem to be confusing what people thought Untamed would be based on the teaser for what Untamed actually is.

I haven't tested it with my full berserkers gear so I can't say, when I played it during beta I was able to pull 10k on group fights as a pose to my chrono that could only pull 7-8k. 

Only mirage could pull better numbers, close to 15k but they are pure melee so they have a much higher chance of dying. 

Edited February 21, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Dadnir.5038]

11 hours ago, oscuro.9720 said:

Reason? You want a reason to play warrior? How about warrior is directly superior to all other classes? How about warrior is feared by everyone far and wide that has seen the gleam of warriors armor on the battlefield? How about warrior being the walking manifestation of a thousand suns?

But look, none of this matters. Warrior doesn’t need reasons to kill. Warrior does not need reasons to feel the tingling in the spine while chasing down the dozens of fleeing enemies, ripping them apart one by one in a bloody dance of savagery. Warrior does not need reasons to crave the exhilaration of standing over warrior’s maimed and defeated foes. 

Reasons. Hah. Do you need a reason to eat? Or breathe? Or kitten? No. It’s simply in your nature. 

 

please add stow to gunsaber.

I think Chuck Noris want a talk with you... Of course Chuck Noris is a warrior.

Might be fun to have a Chuck Noris warrior e-spec...

[taara.3217]

9 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

have a much higher chance of dying. 

Mirage has one of the highest survival rate in game.

[oscuro.9720]

12 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

I think Chuck Noris want a talk with you... Of course Chuck Noris is a warrior.

Might be fun to have a Chuck Noris warrior e-spec...

When warrior’s victims get to the gates of Valhalla, Chuck Norris greets them with “Warrior got you too, huh?”

[Mell.4873]

9 hours ago, taara.3217 said:

Mirage has one of the highest survival rate in game.

I 100% agree and regularly duel bounties with my mirage but it is not great for certain PVE bosses or mechanics. 

I mean trying to stay in melee while fight something like a Champion Arrowhead (auric basin) is so much work. Might as well sit back and relax with ranged specialization like chronomancer greatsword.

Edited February 21, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Dadnir.5038]

18 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

I 100% agree and regularly duel bounties with my mirage but it is not great for certain PVE bosses or mechanics. 

I mean trying to stay in melee while fight something like a Champion Arrowhead (auric basin) is so much work. Might as well sit back and relax with ranged specialization like chronomancer greatsword.

You're not forced to play melee as a mirage thought... There is this thing, you know, we call this "weapon swap".

[Xenesis.6389]

On 2/20/2022 at 2:01 PM, Mell.4873 said:

Yeah I agree for the most part but don't you think they will buff the shatter damage. The whole virtuoso argument mostly revolves around this. Most people even don't care about the lack of clones. 

It seems like the whole problem does boil down to you cant please everyone when a new specialisation is introduced especially when we already have 2. I mean I want to play virtouso since I no longer need to deal with clones in open world pve.

For fractals I will probably use the old elites specialisations. 

 

The problem here is you think virtuoso is fine because you play it in open world, which you can use practically any class or spec in and it really doesn't matter. When you take classes into different areas like hard content or pvp, it becomes a different matter. Many mesmers don't mind a cloneless spec, many asked for it including me, just as I'm sure many rangers didn't mind getting a pet less spec option with soulbeast.

It's the way they handled it that is bothersome and requires changes for them to function properly in places like wvw, it's perfectly fine in open world where you're fight ai that barely even moves, not so much when you enter wvw and you have to deal with a whole host of bubbles and reflects and targets moving quickly in and out of cover and around you, suddenly your front facing cast time target required projectile bladesongs might be worthless than non los insta cast clone shatters in fights. Not to mention for all the main aoes you need to give up all your utilities which are usually very important on mesmer, and then they get handed a dagger with another two projectile based aoes....

It's great you love the new elites, but keep in mind classes need to function in like 5 different areas of the game (open world, wvw, spvp, fractals, raids), there are going to be people who are not happy with it's performances in one of them, especially since a lot of the new specs don't even resemble their core class or mechanics. Even you are going to stick to old specs for fractals, that should say something. 🤷‍♂️

[Mell.4873]

51 minutes ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

 

The problem here is you think virtuoso is fine because you play it in open world, which you can use practically any class or spec in and it really doesn't matter. When you take classes into different areas like hard content or pvp, it becomes a different matter. Many mesmers don't mind a cloneless spec, many asked for it including me, just as I'm sure many rangers didn't mind getting a pet less spec option with soulbeast.

It's the way they handled it that is bothersome and requires changes for them to function properly in places like wvw, it's perfectly fine in open world where you're fight ai that barely even moves, not so much when you enter wvw and you have to deal with a whole host of bubbles and reflects and targets moving quickly in and out of cover and around you, suddenly your front facing cast time target required projectile bladesongs might be worthless than non los insta cast clone shatters in fights. Not to mention for all the main aoes you need to give up all your utilities which are usually very important on mesmer, and then they get handed a dagger with another two projectile based aoes....

It's great you love the new elites, but keep in mind classes need to function in like 5 different areas of the game (open world, wvw, spvp, fractals, raids), there are going to be people who are not happy with it's performances in one of them, especially since a lot of the new specs don't even resemble their core class or mechanics. Even you are going to stick to old specs for fractals, that should say something. 🤷‍♂️

It does not need to be functional in every part of the game, I mean I main mesmer but I won't bring it into pvp. Play the mesmer in pvp is not functional for me. 

For open world I prefer my ranger since it is more mindless and an easier rotation than try to play chrono where most of damage comes from duel swords. I am liable to die alot during any world boss but with my Longbow ranger I can sit back and enjoy the fight. My hope is the new spec will completely replace my Longbow ranger.

[Xenesis.6389]

7 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

It does not need to be functional in every part of the game

 

Sure, and that's why I'm not getting the expansion. 🤷‍♂️

[Mesket.5728]

2 hours ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

classes need to function in like 5 different areas of the game (open world, wvw, spvp, fractals, raids),

*cries in warrior*

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

On 2/21/2022 at 3:07 AM, Dadnir.5038 said:

I think Chuck Noris want a talk with you... Of course Chuck Noris is a warrior.

Might be fun to have a Chuck Noris warrior e-spec...

That would be Berserker good sir.

[Mell.4873]

12 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

You're not forced to play melee as a mirage thought... There is this thing, you know, we call this "weapon swap".

Staff maybe is the only ranged alternative that can get close to axes damage but you have no quickness application and it will be even less likely at range.

But chrono is much better open world class since it is power based so their is not ramp up even if it less damage per second. 

Edited February 23, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Dadnir.5038]

9 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

That would be Berserker good sir.

Of course not, berserker can die, chuck noris have already killed death.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Of course not, berserker can die, chuck noris have already killed death.

I wish I could put more laugh reactions than just one.

[Mik.3401]

Most of them are based on fun and creative concepts, the problem is they are extremely unpolished. They feel like that essay you write the night before the deadline and even though you know it needs so much more work you just click ‘submit’. If only they had a bit more attention to details and gave some thought about the actual mechanics over looks they could be brilliant. Like hammer 3 on catalyst and virtuoso shatters are to me a pinnacle of that kind of ‘bad essay submission’ kind of work. You put it there because it looks interesting, but ultimately it has no substance or purpose.

 

Edited February 23, 2022 by Mik.3401

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

On 2/20/2022 at 10:03 AM, Dadnir.5038 said:

- Virtuoso is a plain dps whose only advantage over other mesmer dps build is that it doesn't use clones in boss fights with phases (everywhere else it's just plain worse).

- Untamed can't even compare to soulbeast in term of numbers. As for what it bring on the table, it's just underwhelming. Even the gameplay isn't exciting as it's basically core gameplay.

I disagree on these points.

Virtuoso's main selling point is better open world performance, not bossing.  Mesmers love boss fights because of their backloaded damage and focus on single targets. It's trash mob cleanup that makes a mesmer pull his hair out. Having to constantly recreate clones cause a mob died and very limited aoe options is what drives us crazy. Virtuoso address both the issues with blades that carry over between targets/fights and reliable, circular aoe skills that do real damage.

Untamed gets boonrips and even corrupts. In large enough amount to matter. Something that up till now was ranger's Achilles' heel. Along with very good cc and poison output this can mean new things for rangers in competitive modes.  In PvE i would not underestimate them either. With ambush attacks, cooldown resets when disabling enemies and new sources of poison i think few have gotten the real hang of their power. This spec may surprise us.

Edited February 23, 2022 by ZeftheWicked.3076

[Mell.4873]

On 2/24/2022 at 5:58 AM, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

I disagree on these points.

Virtuoso's main selling point is better open world performance, not bossing.  Mesmers love boss fights because of their backloaded damage and focus on single targets. It's trash mob cleanup that makes a mesmer pull his hair out. Having to constantly recreate clones cause a mob died and very limited aoe options is what drives us crazy. Virtuoso address both the issues with blades that carry over between targets/fights and reliable, circular aoe skills that do real damage.

Untamed gets boonrips and even corrupts. In large enough amount to matter. Something that up till now was ranger's Achilles' heel. Along with very good cc and poison output this can mean new things for rangers in competitive modes.  In PvE i would not underestimate them either. With ambush attacks, cooldown resets when disabling enemies and new sources of poison i think few have gotten the real hang of their power. This spec may surprise us.

Perfect answer and the main reason I will play both. The main problem we have with both Mesmer and ranger is there lack of tools to deal with oppressively open world mechanics.

 

I mean it is nearly impossible to do living world mission of a full berserkers soulbeast since you will stunned out of most of your rotations especially Whirling Defense.

The same can be said for Mesmer, Chrono can do okay with phantasmal defender moving damage off your sword, sword attacks but its not perfect and the Virtuoso is the perfect answer, group them up and blow them up. We now have a good reason to run focus offhand.