Class balance discussion

[Xenesis.6389]

Think it's pretty obvious they don't listen to the average roamer/blobber otherwise they wouldn't have nerfed strip/corruption so much, while boosting scrapper over the top in the last three years, pretty sure that's advice from guilds and their commanders.

[subversiontwo.7501]

4 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

If the player base uses an effect to play there game type (support stab) it forces anet hands to make sure never to touch it (making support stab not have the cd nerf to 1 min like all self stab).

FB and scraper are the wvw game right now they are as broken as can be and we should feel bad making other ppl play them as well as playing them our self.

Okay, so you don't want to change anything, you just want us to collectively feel bad for everyone? Got it 🤡.

Edited February 24, 2022 by subversiontwo.7501

[Jski.6180]

Just now, subversiontwo.7501 said:

Okay, so you don't want to change anything, you just want us to collectively feel bed? Got it 🤡.

I am telling you the player base dose not want any thing changed because they are too comfortable. This is not a question of what being posted on these forms but what the player base is doing by playing the meta.

[subversiontwo.7501]

19 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

I am telling you the player base dose not want any thing changed because they are too comfortable. This is not a question of what being posted on these forms but what the player base is doing by playing the meta.

So, other players play the way they want to and ... that makes you post on a forum (to say that it isn't about what's posted on a forum)? 🤨

Okay, glad we cleared that up.

Edited February 24, 2022 by subversiontwo.7501

[AlCapwnd.7834]

32 minutes ago, subversiontwo.7501 said:

It's pretty much what they are doing or have been doing for the past year or so. There are various focus groups, it is just not very transparent, takes place on the forum or has anything to do with the forum and is more casually ongoing than some sort of one-time survey type of thing. As far as I'm concerned, it is inferior to using your own communication platforms effectively, but it is definitely superior to their older approaches of just gauging statistics.

Oh cool. I didn't know they had been reaching out to them. I know our commanders have great ideas that we could (possibly?) all agree to. idk. I just love WvW and i hate to see people complain about a game mode i enjoy a lot. Be it roaming or blobbing. Its all fun. But at the same time i think that some people just like to complain because the game isnt built exactly the way they want it. And there is just nothing you can do about them.

[subversiontwo.7501]

5 minutes ago, AlCapwnd.7834 said:

Oh cool. I didn't know they had been reaching out to them. I know our commanders have great ideas that we could (possibly?) all agree to. idk. I just love WvW and i hate to see people complain about a game mode i enjoy a lot. Be it roaming or blobbing. Its all fun. But at the same time i think that some people just like to complain because the game isnt built exactly the way they want it. And there is just nothing you can do about them.

Just to make sure I don't mislead you: They're not talking to every commander out there, but they have been active on various community-driven platforms that we are all privy to, if we choose to visit them. There's hints of there being more communication channels that we are not all privy to (partners, event creators, etc.). Grouch has written in devblogs and talked on streams about immersing himself in all subcontent of WvW to get a better grasp of things and has talked about his experiences with it (enough to give credible impression).

[kash.9213]

1 hour ago, AlCapwnd.7834 said:

I have an idea. ANET should reach out to all active and even non active commanders (i'm sure they know who most of them are) across all servers and ask them what changes need to be made or things that need to be looked at. I can see the confusion emojis already. But, they (commanders) know the issues way better than the average roamer/blobber.

A lot of commanders mostly back cap and a lot of them avoid actual fights. Anet should play this mode a lot more instead of getting skewed feedback from a handful of people who tend to condense a lot of activity all over a map into one big largely non activity for anyone who has to wait on them to roll. WvW keeps moving from any hint of an open world pvp mode towards a sometimes large scale match with long wait periods in between matches.

Our server has a good prime time driver right now who hits up a variety of stuff and keeps a map hopping for awhile, but even they have long wait periods and will pack up and leave if the whole map isn't in squad and on discord before the fight is even over. 

There's great commanders scattered around keeping the maps vibrant for their part but I wouldn't want WvW retooled around Commander tag takes. 

Edited February 24, 2022 by kash.9213

[Jski.6180]

10 hours ago, subversiontwo.7501 said:

So, other players play the way they want to and ... that makes you post on a forum (to say that it isn't about what's posted on a forum)? 🤨

Okay, glad we cleared that up.

Player are foced to play the way the group wants a lot of the time wvw maybe worst then raids pve for that.

[Aeolus.3615]

 

17 hours ago, Jski.6180 said:

If the player base uses an effect to play there game type (support stab) it forces anet hands to make sure never to touch it (making support stab not have the cd nerf to 1 min like all self stab).

FB and scraper are the wvw game right now they are as broken as can be and we should feel bad making other ppl play them as well as playing them our self.

Scraper is overtuned way more than FB, but besides FB and scraper all we have in wvw is necros.

Edited February 25, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Jski.6180]

5 hours ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

 

Scraper is overtuned way more than FB, but besides FB and scraper all we have in wvw is necros.

Overturn is such a "nice" way out put it the class is massively op. FB is better balanced sure but the need for Gurad / FB is so great due to the class being the only real soces of stab and block spam. necro is a bit better balanced due to the target cap nerf or the shorter ranged as well as the other dps classes that are some what usable. Its the perma super speed, the perma quickness, the high amount of condi conversion to boons, the higher stab, and high blocks that out right brake the games balancing.

[Aeolus.3615]

28 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

Overturn is such a "nice" way out put it the class is massively op. FB is better balanced sure but the need for Gurad / FB is so great due to the class being the only real soces of stab and block spam. necro is a bit better balanced due to the target cap nerf or the shorter ranged as well as the other dps classes that are some what usable. Its the perma super speed, the perma quickness, the high amount of condi conversion to boons, the higher stab, and high blocks that out right brake the games balancing.

I think Anet made it that way to counter all the ammount of necroage stacking, so to try to make game more "balanced in massive zerg fights" they made 1 class do it all, stability, anti-range, condi cleanse, boons via converting condis. minor heals, something that should be done by stacking several classes.

By the other side the offensive can be done by just 1 class, we have scourges and reapers and thats mostly what zerg stack for damage and more support/utility.

Ive seen groups with 1 reaper 3 scrouges and Fb or scrapper, or the other way arround  2 scraps 2 fb's and 1 reaper or scourge.

All this classes need to be touched and some functionalities as trade off need be improved while spreading other tools to others classes.

 

While this classes keep massivelly overtuned for aoe spam combat i dont see much space for EoD classes to be played at all.

Edited February 25, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Jski.6180]

3 minutes ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

I think Anet made it that way to counter all the ammount of necroage stacking, so to try to make game more "balanced in massive zerg fights" they made 1 class do it all, stability, anti-range, condi cleanse, boons via converting condis. minor heals, something that should be done by stacking several classes.

By the other side the offensive can be done by just 1 class, we have scourges and reapers and thats mostly what zerg stack for damage and more support/utility.

Ive seen groups with 1 reaper 3 scrouges and Fb or scrapper, or the other way arround  2 scraps 2 fb's and 1 reaper or scourge.

All this classes need to be touched and some functionalities as trade off need be improved while spreading other tools to others classes.

 

While this classes keep massivelly overtuned for aoe spam combat i dont see much space for EoD classes to be played at all.

I think they over buffed scraper because they reworked eng  core to be way too powerful for the elite spec to take. That and anet forgot to update kits well for the last healing / dmg nerfs. The super speed / quickness update seems more like for pve not wvw but its in wvw because anet is realty bad at splinting skills. Anet has brain rot when it comes to giving other classes stab it seems.

Necro was bad with high target cap and high dmg on an support class (another major thing anet seems to lack the abitly to balances support eleit spec for core classes that are dps) but that has been nerfed so its "not as bad" and there is room for long ranges dps classes. Keep in mind some long ranged classes are better then others its a problem in it self but not as bad as the current support domination problem we have in wvw.

I think the self stab nerf needs to be undo OR needs to be carried over to support stab. Super speed needs to become a full boon but still keep its 10 sec max duration and the "strong boons" all need 10 sec max duration quickness alacrity even stab. We also need to see kits skills put on longer cd or give them cd on swaps (like every thing else in the game). Condi conversion should not have strong boons tide to them no stab quickness alacrity super speed (if i had my way) and blocks.

[displayname.8315]

Had plenty of fun with the EoD classes in the beta... Boon ball is plenty manageable unless your a garbo daily farmer and your team is also shiny farmers.

 

Most scrubs don't know how to disengage and have no exit plan when they go to feed their bags.  They should definitely stick to focus groups for balance and we should stick to back-capping.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

On 2/22/2022 at 9:02 PM, Justine.6351 said:

I don't care about the balance. I am just saddened by the way so many people choose to play. No adventure, no risk, no fun. Outnumber everything, run away if fight too hard. Its gotten to the point where I have to play like this as a means to reciprocate in some capacity to show them how trash it is. A taste of their own medicine. Of course they probably come to the forums to write threads about how lame it is. Roamers killed roaming, not anet.

This. Even a 1v3 quickly turns into a 1v10. And the bigger server "roamers" refuse to walk anywhere without their pocket b---- support. Like true wimps.

Edited February 26, 2022 by NorthernRedStar.3054

[Justine.6351]

4 hours ago, NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

This. Even a 1v3 quickly turns into a 1v10.

That's what happens when I start building trebs in camps rofl.