Did you unlock Specter?

[Vidit.7108]

Answer the poll after you have started playing End of Dragons.

Hey everyone, this is a follow up poll to this topic,

I'm interested this time in if you followed through and made a Specter. Or even if you've decided not to make one. 155 of you answered the poll last time it will be interesting to compare some expectations to reality. I'm posting this topic the night before since it takes awhile to set up the poll and I don't want to spend that time tomorrow morning to put it together.

Once again go ahead and tell me here why you made one or not, or if you've changed your mind and please take some time before answering the poll. Give it some thought, or not, I don't control your life. The poll will not close and I'll be checking back at least a month after, so you won't miss anything =D 

If for some reason you are here in the thief sub-forum in the ten hours before EoD comes out, how are you? Getting ready for EoD? Got some water? 

Edited February 28, 2022 by Vidit.7108

[JPUlisses.8756]

I love how there are so many answers despite EoD is not released yet.

[Fueki.4753]

Maybe you should have waited a day before pumping out the poll.

[BobbyT.7192]

I just loaded in to unlock the spec on all my characters, haven't played really. Noticed that there hasn't been any changes to the new specs from beta 4. Not that I noticed at least. Alittle disappointing.

Edited February 28, 2022 by BobbyT.7192

[Nomad.4301]

I unlocked it as I already had 404 hero points leftover, probably not going to use it, possibly ever. They changed nothing from beta2 based on feedback. Outside of a trollish roaming build in WvW I generally can't see much use for it in other game modes as it is now, I was excited to try a fractal support build till they nerfed it after Beta1, now I've lost much of my interest. I agreed with the direction to push a support/condi thief over yet another power build however I cannot get behind their push to make it a useless single-target focused support build. This is Gw2 not WoW, single target does-not-work, period.

As it stands right now I'd rather use my renegade for alacrity+healing support as it's MUCH more durable and capable of providing more boons and healing overall. Here's hoping the REAL EoD launch patch is coming soon and this isn't it.

*Edit few days later - I've since tried Specter as a Condi DPS and dear lord is it terrible, can someone who has figured out a build for this please elaborate on how you get more than 10-15k DPS, because even with food/full vipers and full leg gear I struggle to break 15k on a target golem with self boons only. Most of the traits are trash for DPS (minor tier is literally only support, one of which is a worthless 60-300s CD passive) I am aware that DPS goes up slightly with venom share but even post-nerf solo condi Deadeye or daredevil is doubling specter's golem DPS and those elite aren't even "condi focused". Your weapon skills on scepter are very poorly optimized for PvE damage thanks to the massive aftercasts and pointless shadowsteps and due to the specter's "trade-off" of having 3 less initiative, you're basically locked into trickery again and you still end up running out of ini constantly just trying to keep condis up. I literally do more DPS with just auto attacks on Power DD than I do going full ham on specter. As for the "shroud", entering it is a huge DPS LOSS as none of the abilities on it are worth clicking on, even once, in terms of DPS. I'm genuinely asking if anyone has found out a way to make this spec work for DPS (not some lame support hybrid) as I'm struggling to even find a reason to use specter at all.

Edited March 4, 2022 by Nomad.4301

[kash.9213]

1 hour ago, Nomad.4301 said:

I unlocked it as I already had 404 hero points leftover, probably not going to use it, possibly ever. They changed nothing from beta2 based on feedback. Outside of a trollish roaming build in WvW I generally can't see much use for it in other game modes as it is now, I was excited to try a fractal support build till they nerfed it after Beta1, now I've lost much of my interest. I agreed with the direction to push a support/condi thief over yet another power build however I cannot get behind their push to make it a useless single-target focused support build. This is Gw2 not WoW, single target does-not-work, period.

 

As it stands right now I'd rather use my renegade for alacrity+healing support as it's MUCH more durable and capable of providing more boons and healing overall. Here's hoping the REAL EoD launch patch is coming soon and this isn't it.

Single target worked fine. It's the same as single targeting enemy players or characters and you should be doing that a lot. 

[Ivaldi.5076]

3 hours ago, Nomad.4301 said:

I unlocked it as I already had 404 hero points leftover, probably not going to use it, possibly ever. They changed nothing from beta2 based on feedback. Outside of a trollish roaming build in WvW I generally can't see much use for it in other game modes as it is now, I was excited to try a fractal support build till they nerfed it after Beta1, now I've lost much of my interest. I agreed with the direction to push a support/condi thief over yet another power build however I cannot get behind their push to make it a useless single-target focused support build. This is Gw2 not WoW, single target does-not-work, period.

 

As it stands right now I'd rather use my renegade for alacrity+healing support as it's MUCH more durable and capable of providing more boons and healing overall. Here's hoping the REAL EoD launch patch is coming soon and this isn't it.

 

Pretty much, only reason to bring Spectre is masochism.

[Doggie.3184]

It's still a fun concept but... has a lot of annoying flaws and bugs and very fustratingly picky design choices they stuck with when they shouldn't of.

Everything wrong with it is pretty indepthly covered in the feedback and bug threads which have been ignored so far. XD I will say though that having a whole line of Teleport Wells that all carry unfixed bugs that've existed for several years is already a disaster. I wish they just used Vault's mechanics for the teleport because shadowstep's mechanics have been unreliable crap forever.

[Zacchary.6183]

Holy kitten is this thing is tanky. I've been facerolling through some of the raunchiest combat in PoF. They really laid down the mechanics in story because it seems like 80% of the NPCs you have to kill are vet+ and all of them have more CC and abilities than in previous xpacs.

[Vidit.7108]

Just want to state for the record I checked in the morning for people voting before the expac came out. Only 3 did. It also doesn't really matter how many people decided to lie in a forum poll read by like the same 100 people every day. I'm not losing sleep over that. There are no stakes here, this is just for curiosity sake.

If you are one of those impatient people that answered as soon as you saw the topic, good for you. I'm not one to judge the opinionated, at least not for this anyway.
 

[Chrysaliss.8720]

Honestly... I am not feeling it. Feels like they ignored all of the beta feedback. The forced mobility on s/p is terrible. Dont see a future where specter is a viable dps. (Altho I have not yet tested on golem with full boons)

The shroud is still completely useless.

The initiative system still makes it, that you only spam 1 button over and over. 

Only + side is that with the new ritualist gear its very tanky in open world.

Edited March 1, 2022 by Chrysaliss.8720

[Androx.8572]

Yes , Specter is kitten.
Smoking too much garbage?

[RyuDragnier.9476]

7 hours ago, Chrysaliss.8720 said:

Honestly... I am not feeling it. Feels like they ignored all of the beta feedback. The forced mobility on s/p is terrible. Dont see a future where specter is a viable dps. (Altho I have not yet tested on golem with full boons)

The shroud is still completely useless.

The initiative system still makes it, that you only spam 1 button over and over. 

Only + side is that with the new ritualist gear its very tanky in open world.

I'm trying to do a Condi build and I'm feeling quite a bit of damage behind it after doing the first Act, but it's pretty much entirely in your Sc/P #3 and Venoms. If you use Shroud, you're using it to buy time for your initiative to come back and for your utilities to come off cooldown, it doesn't seem to do much damage.

[Vidit.7108]

Getting around to using Specter myself. It's just kinda okay, after seeing what mechanist can do we're probably losing out against it as a barrier/alac support. If some of the issues I had with Specter ever got corrected I could see it replacing my main build. It's just not doing it for me though.

Still really early to talk much about the poll but Amplified Siphoning and Shallow Grave don't have a lot of voters. In the past lack of popularity has gotten traits "adjusted" so maybe we'll see those get improved.

[Antycypator.9874]

I had to test the Specter, because everyone's telling me it has better sustain than other thief specs, and my results are clear... NO. Specter. Has. Literally. Zero. Sustain.

Check it on a training golem — set area damage to low or moderate, spawn a golem, don't take any buffs and try to outheal the damage. This is how you should test your sustain.

Specter is too slow, and it's support role is garbage, because why the hell I can't support myself?

 

[Zacchary.6183]

Just now, Antycypator.9874 said:

NO. Specter. Has. Literally. Zero. Sustain.

You are absolutely wrong. Read the tooltips and have fun.

[MathiasXII.7240]

I'll have to be quite honest and say the Specter is not bad at all. I've been using a trio condi build for a while in PvE and it's surprisingly powerful ! It takes full advantage of the thief's traits that raises bleeding/poison/torment damage and sometimes duration.

What I like is the sustain part that the thief lacks. It is a very forgiving espec compared to other thieves build not involving IP or defensive equip. 

P.S.: I know there's probably room for improvement in the build posted, but I find it plays just fine for my needs.

Edited March 4, 2022 by MathiasXII.7240
typos

[nopoet.2960]

I've had more success with pistol than I've had with scepter but I'm making progress.  Everything works better if you use dip into shroud regularly.  I think we are trained to avoid damage at all cost but with shroud you should actually keep the pressure on rather than doing the dodging thing but I'm still learning.  I will say I'm completely confused by scepter/dagger.  I can't tell what the devs intended with that set.

[RyuDragnier.9476]

23 minutes ago, nopoet.2960 said:

I've had more success with pistol than I've had with scepter but I'm making progress.  Everything works better if you use dip into shroud regularly.  I think we are trained to avoid damage at all cost but with shroud you should actually keep the pressure on rather than doing the dodging thing but I'm still learning.  I will say I'm completely confused by scepter/dagger.  I can't tell what the devs intended with that set.

Sc/D 3 seems to be faster overall and has better damage scaling than Sc/P 3. It seems to do more damage than Sc/P, but Sc/P seems to be better on the support to compensate. That's what it appears to be. So for support I'd take Sc/P, but for damage you're better off taking Sc/D.

Edited March 4, 2022 by RyuDragnier.9476

[Vidit.7108]

We're almost at 50 votes, the middling score Specter has here in the poll seems about right to me. It's not great and not super terrible, the negative votes have started to grow but I don't think much of it right now. 

I'm seeing Specters in strikes so I'm surprised that doesn't have more votes. That said we're still very early and it's EoD's first weekend. I expect to see more WvW players voting over time like in the last poll. On another note I think rit stat's being so exclusive is probably hurting Specter in the short term.

Amplified Siphoning is doing comparatively worse to all the other traits and I don't think it will suddenly improve in another 100 votes. I'm sure it has a PvP use though. They should probably either trade Traversing Dusk with Panaku's Ambition or make all wells always give alacrity and have TD buff wells somehow.

[Nimbus Nomad.1237]

On 3/4/2022 at 4:14 PM, nopoet.2960 said:

I've had more success with pistol than I've had with scepter but I'm making progress.  Everything works better if you use dip into shroud regularly.  I think we are trained to avoid damage at all cost but with shroud you should actually keep the pressure on rather than doing the dodging thing but I'm still learning.  I will say I'm completely confused by scepter/dagger.  I can't tell what the devs intended with that set.

I can see what you are saying about scepter/dagger as the kit is quite redundant. The 3 and 4 skills have a lot of overlap in what they do. 3 is almost always superior and relegates 4 to niche uses. The 2 skill is basically the three round burst of spectre and should almost never be used. 

That being said, i love scepter/dagger in pvp. The playstyle doesn't feel spammy what so ever since you are constantly popping into shade form as you mentioned. The ammount of control you exert on a single target with soft cc(chill & weakness) from twilight combo is absurd. 

[Nimbus Nomad.1237]

On 3/4/2022 at 2:08 AM, Antycypator.9874 said:

I had to test the Specter, because everyone's telling me it has better sustain than other thief specs, and my results are clear... NO. Specter. Has. Literally. Zero. Sustain.

Check it on a training golem — set area damage to low or moderate, spawn a golem, don't take any buffs and try to outheal the damage. This is how you should test your sustain.

Specter is too slow, and it's support role is garbage, because why the hell I can't support myself?

 

Sounds to me like you don't know how to press f2. 

[Scolix.4879]

Yes and i tried it but its not for me it just feels confusing and boring to play.

[JPUlisses.8756]

It made me change from Necro to Thief and not because of the shroud although aesthetic is perfect and those skills are good.

The main reason I like specter is the single target support, not just heals, but the fact it gives barrier and hence does some damage via torment while supporting. The best skill for me is Scepter/Pistol 3, which shadow steps (heals) and then gives quickness to a target. That is huge for me because it is a lot of torment while giving quickness and healing all in one skill. Plus allows good positioning by targeting friend/foe.

 

The traits complement this well, and the alacrity for me is great, since I use wells and I always loved wells on other classes, I was worried about shadow steps on wells  but it ended up being a nice extra, as I can also use them for extra mobility.

 

Skill 2 of scepter is the only weak part in my option, because it feels nothing special.

TL:DR; Its a new way to play which I love. I love this gameplay style.

[nopoet.2960]

@JPUlisses.8756Do you think other folks will change classes to try out new elites?  When I tried harbinger during beta it felt like the pistol thief of my dreams.  The lack of defense didn't bother me at all because... well I main a thief, we are used to it.  The damage output on the other hand was dreamy.  Loved the shroud skills too.