Virtuoso was designed for people who hate Mesmer and was designed by people who hate Mesmer.

[Salt Mode.3780]

33 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

Melee attacks are in cone, that's how fractals are done. Group them up and cleave through with melee attacks?? I'm confused why this is an issue, piercing attacks would also provide the same benefit a cleave would to.

I'm super lost with this whole conversation, I mean this is why I run Temporal Curtain on Chrono and especially Virtuoso. group up and cleave or in this case pierce through them.

AoE and Pierce are mechanical terms and cone attacks fall under the line of AoE not "cleave". 

Both AoE attacks and Pierce are different and I understand you are confused because most can tell from the history of your posts.

AoE has no condition for how the attack lands so long as its within the radius of the attack this applies to both ranged AND melee.

Pierce attacks has a condition in which the mobs have to line up within the line of sight basically either stacking them up tightly together or in a row for ur attacks to "pierce" so if mobs are loosely gathered you are not going to be hitting all of them. 

Once you understand this concept re-read the previous posts then you might understand what people are trying to say.

Edited March 4, 2022 by Salt Mode.3780

[Mell.4873]

13 minutes ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Cleave is not a mechanical term of a skill, it is to kill as fast as possible. AoE and Pierce are mechanical terms and cone attacks fall under the line of AoE not "cleave". 

Both AoE attacks and Pierce are different and I understand you are confused because most can tell from the history of your posts.

AoE has no condition for how the attack lands so long as its within the radius of the attack this applies to both ranged AND melee.

Pierce attacks has a condition in which the mobs have to line up within the line of sight basically either stacking them up tightly together or in a row for ur attacks to "pierce" so if mobs are loosely gathered you are not going to be hitting all of them. 

Once you understand this concept re-read the previous posts then you might understand what people are trying to say.

So just line the enemies up like you would in pve, again i'm not seeing your point. We have more pierce and cleave skills than aoe ones, i mean even Mesmer's shatters is very tiny aoe circle so you still have to group the enemies up.

[Salt Mode.3780]

12 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

So just line the enemies up like you would in pve, again i'm not seeing your point. We have more pierce and cleave skills than aoe ones, i mean even Mesmer's shatters is very tiny aoe circle so you still have to group the enemies up.

This is where your lack of knowledge shows even more, each clone is it's own AoE and no the AoE is by no means small. If you want to know how large the AoE is for clones then I would suggest you look at Jaunt that  AoE circle is 180 radius while shatters are all 240. 

I know you are confused and from reading your posts Im sure you and other people will get confused.

A simple example to why AoE will always be better then Pierce is for example in WvW camps have mobs that are ranged and melee, you maybe able to pierce through melee mobs but wont be able to get to the ranged mobs, whereas AoE as long as they are within the 240 radius of the shatter it will also get hit. If you dont understand this basic concept there is nothing much more to say.

Edited March 4, 2022 by Salt Mode.3780

[Nephalem.8921]

53 minutes ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

I got the title No Heroes Left Behind when it was first introduced into the game so yes I know how "difficult" 100 cm is. Truth be told none of the PvE content in this game is "difficult" in the slightest because of how the game was designed around PvP combat. Being able to dodge twice is already a reason why content is easier then most PvE in any other MMOs let alone class design. Like people being able to 2 man raid bosses or even solo champions in open world.

So sorry to say the only thing that is "difficult" in this game is going into WvW or sPvP and suddenly u have to fight 2-3 people outnumbered, and even then its not too difficult considering player quality went down hill on bad class designs. 

Fact that there are people in forums asking about the importance of combo fields already separates the players who played in core days vs newer players who play classes that has everything given to them with a button. 

PvE is not a indication of skill level rather what easy build or class can I take to faceroll boss mechanics, thats why there is a "meta" in PvE.

Playing minion master in spvp or core necro in wvw is peak skill showcase afterall. You did it once so thats enough for me to know how uninformed you are. you have 0 understanding of speedrun fracs and still commented on it. WvW in a zerg isnt difficult either. There is a meta in every mode.

If you were a pve player you would have hated on spellbreaker release aswell right? Anyways you made comments about fracs that were about as right as calling scourge a hard to play and well designed class.

[Nephalem.8921]

14 minutes ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

This is where your lack of knowledge shows even more, each clone is it's own AoE and no the AoE is by no means small. If you want to know how large the AoE is for clones then I would suggest you look at Jaunt that  AoE circle is 180 radius while shatters are all 240. 

I know you are confused and from reading your posts Im sure you and other people will get confused.

A simple example to why AoE will always be better then Pierce is for example in WvW camps have mobs that are ranged and melee, you maybe able to pierce through melee mobs but wont be able to get to the ranged mobs, whereas AoE as long as they are within the 240 radius of the shatter it will also get hit. If you dont understand this basic concept there is nothing much more to say.

Target the ranged mob and pierce through the melee ones. or just los them behind a pillar so they clump up for you. Thats how you deal with them on any class anyways. could even play focus to pull them together.

los is such a basic concept there is nothing more to say.

[Salt Mode.3780]

8 minutes ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

Playing minion master in spvp or core necro in wvw is peak skill showcase afterall. You did it once so thats enough for me to know how uninformed you are. you have 0 understanding of speedrun fracs and still commented on it. WvW in a zerg isnt difficult either. There is a meta in every mode.

If you were a pve player you would have hated on spellbreaker release aswell right? Anyways you made comments about fracs that were about as right as calling scourge a hard to play and well designed class.

Actually no I am a mesmer main always have never played MM in spvp or core necro, in WvW I play mostly mesmer as a roamer I dont know why you would assume I did considering I said it multiple times I main mesmer. 

You asked me a question and I answered I did 100 CM fractal and got the title No Man Left Behind when it was released so yes I do have understanding of "harder pve content."

Your post is nothing but petty assumptions that mean nothing.

FYI my comments and posts have always been Mesmercentric because I understand the class enough to make comparisons in which they arent wrong. 

Edited March 4, 2022 by Salt Mode.3780

[Salt Mode.3780]

1 minute ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

Target the ranged mob and pierce through the melee ones. or just los them behind a pillar so they clump up for you. Thats how you deal with them on any class anyways. could even play focus to pull them together.

los is such a basic concept there is nothing more to say.

Wow for a person who just ranted about speed run im sure this will help with that. 

[Yoci.2481]

Pierce: 1D

AoE: 2D

 

Well technically they both have a y component but most combat happens on a plane anyway.

[Mik.3401]

I agree, the spec does nothing essentially, illusionary persona is the fundamental mechanic allowing quick burst - virtuoso needs to face the target and cast the shatter slowly instead. This is is strictly inferior.

Hence 99% of virtuosos I encounter just use F1 from stealth and use blurred inscriptions. It can make it work but it’s just quite boring isn’t it.

I cannot believe they just left it as it is since the beta. They must have some serious management problems.

Edited March 4, 2022 by Mik.3401

[Nephalem.8921]

51 minutes ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Actually no I am a mesmer main always have never played MM in spvp or core necro, in WvW I play mostly mesmer as a roamer I dont know why you would assume I did considering I said it multiple times I main mesmer. 

You asked me a question and I answered I did 100 CM fractal and got the title No Man Left Behind when it was released so yes I do have understanding of "harder pve content."

Your post is nothing but petty assumptions that mean nothing.

FYI my comments and posts have always been Mesmercentric because I understand the class enough to make comparisons in which they arent wrong. 

You have been wrong though. First you said chrono and virtu offer similar dps which they dont. Virtu is higher. Then you wrote dps chrono pumps out boons, which it doesnt. 

You even said mesmer or virtu isnt suited for speedruns when it has one of the best speedrun toolkits in the game. it was held back by chronos slow burst though and has a slow requirement which you wont have in fractals. Mes utility is insane in speedruns and now you can bring it while you have the 2nd highest dps spec in the game. the only build higher is cata which deserves a nerf. 44k are way too much. 

[Salt Mode.3780]

19 minutes ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

You have been wrong though. First you said chrono and virtu offer similar dps which they dont. Virtu is higher. Then you wrote dps chrono pumps out boons, which it doesnt. 

You even said mesmer or virtu isnt suited for speedruns when it has one of the best speedrun toolkits in the game. it was held back by chronos slow burst though and has a slow requirement which you wont have in fractals. Mes utility is insane in speedruns and now you can bring it while you have the 2nd highest dps spec in the game. the only build higher is cata which deserves a nerf. 44k are way too much. 

Have a speed run toolkit is different then actual practice. I never said Mesmer or Virtuoso isnt suited for speedruns since when did I mention speed runs at all, you mentioned it. Before you misquote and assume anything I have to say please go back and re-read. There is a difference between a speed run team vs wanting to clear it quick with randoms you pick up. 

[Mell.4873]

1 hour ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

This is where your lack of knowledge shows even more, each clone is it's own AoE and no the AoE is by no means small. If you want to know how large the AoE is for clones then I would suggest you look at Jaunt that  AoE circle is 180 radius while shatters are all 240. 

I know you are confused and from reading your posts Im sure you and other people will get confused.

A simple example to why AoE will always be better then Pierce is for example in WvW camps have mobs that are ranged and melee, you maybe able to pierce through melee mobs but wont be able to get to the ranged mobs, whereas AoE as long as they are within the 240 radius of the shatter it will also get hit. If you dont understand this basic concept there is nothing much more to say.

Hmm I guess, I never really relied on the shatter aoe. The bladesong pierce line I do rely on and can hit enemies outside the 240 range so I find it better. 

[Salt Mode.3780]

1 minute ago, Mell.4873 said:

Hmm I guess, I never really relied on the shatter aoe. The bladesong pierce line I do rely on and can hit enemies outside the 240 range so I find it better. 

Says the one that also dont use phantasms...I mean I can't be surprised that you were going to make this comment.

[Nephalem.8921]

9 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

I wouldnt bring Virtuoso or Chrono in fractals because there are other classes that can speed run the place much more efficiently. Compared to Chrono and Virtuoso if i had to pick one for sure id be bringing chrono over Virtuoso. Even fighting trash mobs Virtuoso has no real AoE compared to Chrono. Peirce doesnt mean AoE.

You wrote some gibberish about speedruns right here. You would pick chrono over virt? just why? rain of blades or how its called isnt aoe? it does more dmg than chrono wells. focus 4 into f1 hits has many targets as your 240 circle aoe.

[Salt Mode.3780]

20 minutes ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

You wrote some gibberish about speedruns right here. You would pick chrono over virt? just why? rain of blades or how its called isnt aoe? it does more dmg than chrono wells. focus 4 into f1 hits has many targets as your 240 circle aoe.

Wells bring more to the table then just pure damage which btw is not a HUGE difference. As far as speed run goes I didn't mean in the context of doing to for a non existent accomplishment but for clearing it fast with randoms and not a fixed team.

As far as going with randoms I would def prefer chronos over virtuoso. 

[Mell.4873]

26 minutes ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Wells bring more to the table then just pure damage which btw is not a HUGE difference. As far as speed run goes I didn't mean in the context of doing to for a non existent accomplishment but for clearing it fast with randoms and not a fixed team.

As far as going with randoms I would def prefer chronos over virtuoso. 

You know what I'm going to pull a 180 and say I am switching back to Chrono. I just can't consistently get my 10k in open world. Taunt on the phantasmal defender is a such a beautiful skill for grouping enemies up and I cant get temporal curtain to do the same (seems bugged on some enemies in EoD) 

If they fix a few bugs with the damage I might like it more, maybe I'll try a condition build in the meantime 

[Dayra.7405]

"Virtuoso was designed for people who hate Mesmer and was designed by people who hate Mesmer"

 

I agree. Virtuoso is the first Mesmer I like to play 🙂

[Levetty.1279]

15 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

Shatter cooldowns? Every Mesmer has those its the blade stocking that heals you, did you read my post?

And once again

Stacking blades to trigger the trait is hamstrung by shatter cooldowns, stacking clones is hamstrung by nothing as you can freely replace clones when you already have 3 thus you trigger the trait more often and can shatter whenever you want.

I don't know why I'm repeating myself because you quite clearly don't read posts.

[Curunen.8729]

It has too many handicaps and awkward features for the few benefits.

Sure the pew pew crits are fun, but it lacks flow and seems almost designed for action camera.

Certainly when wanting to do anything with comfort I would prefer mirage any day, whether pve or wvw even with one dodge.

Dagger needs more than buffs, rather some function update such as 2 and 3 making it auto rotate the character to target when stationary.

The utilities are largely all useless compared with core (unlike mirage where several deceptions where worth slotting), psychic force has a laughably long cooldown for what it does.

[Mell.4873]

12 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Says the one that also dont use phantasms...I mean I can't be surprised that you were going to make this comment.

But i do use phantasms, when did i say that i didn't?

[Mell.4873]

2 hours ago, Curunen.8729 said:

It has too many handicaps and awkward features for the few benefits.

Sure the pew pew crits are fun, but it lacks flow and seems almost designed for action camera.

Certainly when wanting to do anything with comfort I would prefer mirage any day, whether pve or wvw even with one dodge.

Dagger needs more than buffs, rather some function update such as 2 and 3 making it auto rotate the character to target when stationary.

The utilities are largely all useless compared with core (unlike mirage where several deceptions where worth slotting), psychic force has a laughably long cooldown for what it does.

Yeah i have to agree with this, the trait bugs need to be fixed too. Psychic Force should be a 240 targetable pull not a push and have your suggestion of a lower cooldown.

Edited March 4, 2022 by Mell.4873