Staff and Scepter not getting buffed condition damage to compensate for the loss of clones on Virtuoso is such a BIG oversight and flaw

[Sodeni.6041]

Most of the damage of staff and scepter comes from condition application from your clones.

Virtuoso gets rid of clones which makes those two weapon basically worthless for this elite spec in terms of damage.

This should definitely be addressed, together with "Sharper Images: Illusions inflict bleeding on critical hits". This trait is a big part of mesmer's condition damage and it's basically useless on Virtuoso as well. It only works on phantasms anymore and they don't attack often anyway.

It's one of many design flaws of virtuoso that should be addressed to not limit build diversity even further. I mean, condition builds require daggers in both weapon sets which is boring. In PvP condition Virtuoso is not viable either because of the minimal damage from staff and scepter.

Edited March 13, 2022 by Sodeni.6041

[Chrolo.8536]

This should absolutely be adressed, escpecially on staff.

 

Another key thing, effects on stocking a blade should still proc with 5 blades stocked.

[Veprovina.4876]

A lot about this elite was an oversight...

[mortrialus.3062]

Imagine if picking Daredevil on thief nerfed dagger autos by 50%. Players would riot.  

[Hallow.7368]

How would they even do this? This isn't constructive in any way because you aren't telling them how they could effectively do this. Changing a core weapon specifically on an elite spec would get messy and confusing later down the road balance wise I imagine. If they buff staff in general then mirage becomes an issue again. There's no clean solution to this. The best option was probably tying condi virt to the blades effect like they did so that they could also just use dagger. Condi vert isn't even too terrible either. Sure it's not outstanding nor is it as good as power but it's not completely awful. If you want to use staff mes there's always mirage, but outside of that I can't really think of any way to make staff better for virt without making mirage op again.

[Yoci.2481]

You see this is the kind of stuff that should have come up within the first 30 minutes of them sitting down and planning Virtuoso. Maybe it just never occurred to them (lol) or it did but they didn't care (lolol). Either way it's not our problem. We are free to complain about it on the forums without ever offering any kind of solution at all, or to just go home and stop caring about the game. Whichever we like. But as long as they don't pay us we are under no obligation to fix their product. We sometimes try to anyway, but that's more like a hobby. A strangely masochistic hobby, but it's not a job.

[mortrialus.3062]

3 hours ago, Hallow.7368 said:

How would they even do this? This isn't constructive in any way because you aren't telling them how they could effectively do this. Changing a core weapon specifically on an elite spec would get messy and confusing later down the road balance wise I imagine. If they buff staff in general then mirage becomes an issue again. There's no clean solution to this. The best option was probably tying condi virt to the blades effect like they did so that they could also just use dagger. Condi vert isn't even too terrible either. Sure it's not outstanding nor is it as good as power but it's not completely awful. If you want to use staff mes there's always mirage, but outside of that I can't really think of any way to make staff better for virt without making mirage op again.

They could up the duration to make up for the loss of clone contribution.

[Obliviscaris.6937]

1 hour ago, Hallow.7368 said:

A  bunch of nothing

 

We're sick to death of doing their jobs  for them, doing the research for them, and sharing out experiences, and it being ignored.

Do you seriously think that we HAVEN'T been suggesting fixes for them for years on end?

The audacity of this infant walking in and berating those of us who have been playing since 2005. It's actually hilarious. 

Edited March 9, 2022 by Obliviscaris.6937

[Hallow.7368]

16 minutes ago, Obliviscaris.6937 said:

 

We're sick to death of doing their jobs  for them, doing the research for them, and sharing out experiences, and it being ignored.

Do you seriously think that we HAVEN'T been suggesting fixes for them for years on end?

The audacity of this infant walking in and berating those of us who have been playing since 2005. It's actually hilarious. 

So your solution is to say "buff x" and then say it's not your job to come up with solutions? Wow! Never in my life would I think devolving my feedback would yield more results! PSA for the GW2 boomer responding to me.. employees change. They seemingly have a direction now. I believe mightyteapot said they've also gone through a leadership change as well. So either post something constructive or quit the game or whatever else, but no feedback just wastes everyone's time.

[Hallow.7368]

1 hour ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

They could up the duration to make up for the loss of clone contribution.

This could possibly be doable in the same way that that pet attributes are nerfed on druid on the first trait that unlocks profession mechanics.

[Veprovina.4876]

2 hours ago, Hallow.7368 said:

This forum complains that the devs don't listen to them and then gives useless feedback with no constrictive criticism and then wonders why nothing happens.

Yeah, people have been giving feedback on Mesmer (and mesmer especially), for years and years. Not all of it could possibly be useless. So i don't know where you get the idea to call every single feedback over the years from hundreds of people, some of which have done extensive testing, extensive detailed feedback responses, suggestions, and bug reports (some of the bugs that are STILL in the game). 

I'm with @Obliviscaris.6937 here. It's not our job. We've been trying to get through to Anet, and each time we get slapped in the face with a nerf to something that was never the problem, and damaging the class further without fixing what was reall at issue.

And Virtuoso, for a lot of people has been the last straw. 

But to suggest that this community hasn't been giving useful and constructive feedback is asinine.

[Hallow.7368]

1 hour ago, Yoci.2481 said:

You see this is the kind of stuff that should have come up within the first 30 minutes of them sitting down and planning Virtuoso. Maybe it just never occurred to them (lol) or it did but they didn't care (lolol). Either way it's not our problem. We are free to complain about it on the forums without ever offering any kind of solution at all, or to just go home and stop caring about the game. Whichever we like. But as long as they don't pay us we are under no obligation to fix their product. We sometimes try to anyway, but that's more like a hobby. A strangely masochistic hobby, but it's not a job.

Nobody is forcing you to do their job. The thing is that however much they might look at the forums probably gets reduced to even less time when every post they click on is useless and provides no inkling as to what said person would like to happen to class. Just constant whining.

[Dadnir.5038]

Well, it was obvious that core condi weapons were going to take a hit in there output when they removed clones. My best guess is that they think that the bleed on F2 somehow compensate for this loss.

[Hallow.7368]

4 minutes ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

Yeah, people have been giving feedback on Mesmer (and mesmer especially), for years and years. Not all of it could possibly be useless. So i don't know where you get the idea to call every single feedback over the years from hundreds of people, some of which have done extensive testing, extensive detailed feedback responses, suggestions, and bug reports (some of the bugs that are STILL in the game). 

I'm with @Obliviscaris.6937 here. It's not our job. We've been trying to get through to Anet, and each time we get slapped in the face with a nerf to something that was never the problem, and damaging the class further without fixing what was reall at issue.

And Virtuoso, for a lot of people has been the last straw. 

But to suggest that this community hasn't been giving useful and constructive feedback is asinine.

I'm talking more in the recent months. Specifically from the betas to now. I think the first thread I clicked onto on this forums had people complaining that virt needed to be completely reworked from the ground up because it's elite skill in a beta test had a bugged hitbox. If I'm a dev and I come into these forums to look for suggestions and that's the first thing I see and it's useless junk why would I come back or care about the posts? Especially when then for the next 4 months it's still just endless complaints with no constructive feedback that's actually useful and whatever is good just ends up getting drowned out by all the useless kitten? The way people in this sub act feed into the problem by making extra worthless noise then go "oh it won't matter they won't see it anyways" then why are you posting?? It just increases the odds that they WON'T see anything good.

[Tseison.4659]

Chiming in here 😊 but I do agree that they should’ve spent more time on planning this elite spec out because it seems that they only did so revolving around a certain number of weapons that would pair well with the Virutoso, which isn’t a great way of pigeonholing everyone into the same weapon all the time. There’s players out there that play differently.

Additionally, I think because this elite spec is suppose to be mostly clone/phantasm/illusion less, they should’ve changed all the weapon skills or atleast the off hand ones, to do something different. 🤷‍♂️ Just my opinion though; I’m still not using the elite spec regardless. Mirage (in PvE) (I also use Chrono/Core) is just far superior to trade up when compared to what the Virtuoso has.

[Obliviscaris.6937]

49 minutes ago, Hallow.7368 said:

If I'm a dev

Which you are not, thank god. You didn't even read what I typed out, so never mind, I guess it's a generational thing.But hey, what do I know? Apparently I'm...

49 minutes ago, Hallow.7368 said:

the GW2 boomer

...at the ripe age of 30. 😆

Now for a solution that could work:

 I'd have each stocked blade that the Mesmer shoots via Shatter 1, inheret the effect of the first skill (auto) of the mainland weapon equipped. 

E.g. Confusion or torment inherited from Winds of Chaos, torment inhereted from Scepter 1, vulnerability & possibly boon removal inherited from Sword, whatever the hell Spatial Surge does nowadays, etc.

THAT right there is a profession mechanic that interacts uniquely with every (mainhand) weapon you can equip, and the specialisation is now inherently hybrid from it's base design.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Obliviscaris.6937
Just had to highlight Hallow being aegist, and also put out a really good idea

[Hallow.7368]

40 minutes ago, Obliviscaris.6937 said:

Which you are not, thank god. You didn't even read what I typed out, so never mind, I guess it's a generational thing.But hey, what do I know? Apparently I'm...

...at the ripe age of 30. 😆

Now for a solution that could work:

 I'd have each stocked blade that the Mesmer shoots via Shatter 1, inheret the effect of the first skill (auto) of the mainland weapon equipped. 

E.g. Confusion or torment inherited from Winds of Chaos, torment inhereted from Scepter 1, vulnerability & possibly boon removal inherited from Sword, whatever the hell Spatial Surge does nowadays, etc.

THAT right there is a profession mechanic that interacts uniquely with every (mainhand) weapon you can equip, and the specialisation is now inherently hybrid from it's base design.

I think it's quite funny that you quote my response to someone who is not you then go "you didn't read my post" lmfao

Reading the word "aegist" (not real) made me want to puke. I simply called you old because you called me an infant. Don't dish it out if you can't take it. While this isn't a bad idea what happens to a virt using dagger? Are the shatters then intended to double proc the blade effect and the flurry up to 2 times per f1/f2?  But imagine if you just spitballed this suggestion to begin with instead of starting up the whole what is and is not your job rubbage!

[Veprovina.4876]

1 hour ago, Hallow.7368 said:

Nobody is forcing you to do their job. The thing is that however much they might look at the forums probably gets reduced to even less time when every post they click on is useless and provides no inkling as to what said person would like to happen to class. Just constant whining.

 

1 hour ago, Hallow.7368 said:

I'm talking more in the recent months. Specifically from the betas to now. I think the first thread I clicked onto on this forums had people complaining that virt needed to be completely reworked from the ground up because it's elite skill in a beta test had a bugged hitbox. If I'm a dev and I come into these forums to look for suggestions and that's the first thing I see and it's useless junk why would I come back or care about the posts? Especially when then for the next 4 months it's still just endless complaints with no constructive feedback that's actually useful and whatever is good just ends up getting drowned out by all the useless kitten? The way people in this sub act feed into the problem by making extra worthless noise then go "oh it won't matter they won't see it anyways" then why are you posting?? It just increases the odds that they WON'T see anything good.

I see you had such a great point to make that you had to quote me twice! 🙄

First make a blanket statement, then go back on it "oh, i meant recent months".

Fine, we'll do it your way.

 

There's literally a Virtuoso feedback thread:

Virtuoso Feedback Thread [Merged] - Page 25 - Mesmer - Guild Wars 2 Forums

 

And Virtuoso Bug Thread:

Virtuoso Bug Thread - Page 2 - Mesmer - Guild Wars 2 Forums

 

With about 40 pages combined of feedback and info. 

And if you're going to again quote me and claim all that feedback is useless, non constructive and that the devs can't find any useful feedback in the front page threads with 2 literally pinned threads dedicated to feedback, then i'm afraid this conversation is over, i have no patience conversing with people trying to deny reality.

 

The first post in the feedback thread literally goes into detail with constructive criticism.

 

If they bothered to read the feedback thread at all, half of the current posts of "complaining" would have never been made at all.

[Veprovina.4876]

5 minutes ago, Obliviscaris.6937 said:

Is there an ignore feature on this site yet?

There is actually, i blocked certain people on the forums and i no longer see their posts.

[Veprovina.4876]

14 minutes ago, Hallow.7368 said:

Um buddy? You might wanna double check because I definitely did not quote you twice. I also did not say that positive feedback wasn't there. My ENTIRE argument is that worthless posts such as "I won't buy EoD because of virt" "buff staff" and "how is virt an elite spec" is not productive and helps no one. It clutters the sub and doesn't tell anyone anything except that your fee fees are hurt because you can't do exactly what you want to. Every positive thread I click on this forum has some dude throwing a kitten fit that virt wasn't tailor made for them or someone calling the class utter underpowered garbage when it really isn't. I remember day 1 of EoD someone posted the traits they're using and immediately it had some dude talking about how garbage it is and how you're wasting your time playing it over illusions chrono and I'm sick of it.

Also thank you for informing me of the block feature I no longer have to see a certain someone typing clap emotes and trying to tell me about what is or is not their job! 🙂

Yeah, use that block feature, i'm sure as hell gonna use mine after this insightful conversation. 👍

[Hallow.7368]

1 minute ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

Yeah, use that block feature, i'm sure as hell gonna use mine after this insightful conversation. 👍

Thank god! Couldn't of said it better myself!

Edited March 9, 2022 by Hallow.7368

[psi.9304]

2 hours ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

Yeah, i know the feeling! 🙂

You're welcome! ❤️

I'm about to do it too, reading this guys post and him just not getting it, he is sooo getting paid to defend anet and there terrible balance team. xD

 

[Veprovina.4876]

39 minutes ago, psi.9304 said:

I'm about to do it too, reading this guys post and him just not getting it, he is sooo getting paid to defend anet and there terrible balance team. xD

 

Well i hope he's getting paid a LOT to have arguments like "it's hard for the devs to find releveant feedback" when there's literally 2 pinned threads dedicated just to that...

[Xaylin.1860]

5 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Well, it was obvious that core condi weapons were going to take a hit in there output when they removed clones. My best guess is that they think that the bleed on F2 somehow compensate for this loss.

This and Jagged Mind. While Virtuoso does indeed severely lack synergies with core, the current iteration for Scepter and Staff are probably still in line with what ANet imagined. Meaning, a larger proportion of damage (compared to other specs) is meant to come from Shatters and maybe also Utilities considering several of them are basically mostly "on blade"-triggers.

 

While I get the frustration, I see way bigger issues elsewhere when it comes to Virtuoso. Weapons happen to perform differently on different specs. That's not innately.

[Artyport.2084]

Staff and scepter autos should shoot daggers and benifit from the bleed trait