[Discussion] Catalyst Update 15.03.2022 [Merged]

[tekmo.3076]

Hi Guys,

Another Elementalist player sharing some feedback.

To me, Elementalist is a profession that should be doing a large amount of DPS. Please ANet do not decrease the DPS output further than you already have.
Since I play Elementalist as my main in vast majority of PvE / fractal content it hurts me when you give the profession a low base armor paired with a slow, clunky, close-combat weapon with few survivability options, along with providing mediocre support when compared with other professions, with an overly-complex moveset / skill rotation (in reference to Catalyst). With all these setbacks you should expect a huge DPS-providing profession but now you reduce the DPS further.
A classic "Mage" profession in my opinion is one that is a ranged, "glass cannon" style that casts very high damage attacks at the cost of poor defense. It has always typically been a profession whose number 1 goal is providing the group with high DPS.
Elementalist profession in Guild Wars 2 has been made into a weaker, more close range profession that can no longer be used viably in classic mage style, or any incarnation of what it used to be.

So please ANet stop nerfing an already nerfed, irrelevant profession.

[Lyanna.9875]

I write here what I wrote on Reddit:

RIP Cata........ I was finally able to finish Veterans and Elites (the elites not completely but I was getting there) without always going in downstate thanks to Cata... and now? They nerfed it... why??????

I tried it just now in Echovald Wilds and I was not able to kill 2 brotherhood pistoleers (or something like that) they basically got me in downed state before I even got one of them to half the health.

they wanted again Eles downed state all the time all the way no other explaination.

Explaining it further: I'm a noob/average player that mostly play on PvE and even there it is not feasible anymore. 

I was having fun again seeing that the down state was less likely... but now? not anymore... I'll go back to power weaver or staff tempest (staff tempest I like, I know it was nerfed but it is funny and less likely to get me in downed state automatically with veterans)

[Ruffy.2835]

Thank all of you for your comments and continue discussing if you want!

 

I mean look at the new snowcrow's "guide" of catalyst with literally one comment ...

 

benchmark down to 33k...

 

There was really no reason to knock it off that much ... besides there are so many other professions which are still so strong ...

 

I really really hope that they see what they did here and that they buff it again, otherwise it is completely useless

 

But even if they do, I really really doubt our wishes will come true 😄 and that the benchmark is again on the top ...

 

All the days on the golem and crafting the hammer and spending gold in it, completely wasted ...

 

Besides finding it good to align the dmg output of several classes, so there is "no superior" profession, they really should give hard playing and  training players the reward in getting good benchmark (like it was before the nerf).

 

I will try to stay strong with my ele, but going back to weaver really leaves back a scar on me.

[BlueTheRaptor.4576]

It genuinely feels like ArenaNet is just trying to artificially generate enough hate towards elementalist that they'd have an excuse to delete the entire profession from the game, or replace it with something else.

In lore, elementalist is one of the most fascinating professions of them all- I mean, a deep enough attunement to the primordial magics of nature that a person can wield them at will? But in game application, everything good that elementalist ever had has steadily been ripped away, and we're not even left with scraps to show for it. Us elementalist mains who still keep playing ele only do so because we're either stubborn or too attached or both.

And the kicker is, elementalist is genuinely FUN to play. I might be biased, but I've not had quite as much fun playing other professions as I have when playing on ele. And after the numerous beatdowns Weaver recieved after Path of Fire and throughout the course of Living World s4 and the Icebrood Saga, coupled with the shout nerf on Tempest on EoD launch, for two entire weeks we elementalists had a genuinely fun elite spec to play with and not feel like we were being left in the dirt. Two "entire" weeks.

I'm gonna keep playing Catalyst for a number of reasons because I'm both stubborn and attached, personally. But I'm genuinely praying ANet finally listens to it's player base, the people who've stuck with these professions for years on end and know them and their applications like the backs of their hands.

[Ruffy.2835]

I feel you, bro o/

 

According to the main discussion thread, many players have the same idea of how to split the catalyst and quickalyst, really hope (only thing we can do) that anet sees the problematic and maybe the solution and give power catalyst a proper comeback.

[ArjukKagrim.6049]

The most fun thing about the "reasoning" of ANET is that they nerfed the dmg, which was already lower on non-stationary targets or encounters with mechanics "compared to other classes". If they just tried to even research a little bit (like on wingman or any other site which provides logs from actual encounters) they would see that catalyst was not over, but most of the time below an in the best case scenarios on par with other classes. The only balance issue it had was the generated quickness, not the dps. Finally we had a class that was hard but if some spent hour and hours of practive at least on par with other professions, which feels incredible rewarding for players who enjoy complex professions. And now they decided to make the effort count nothing (or worse getting kicked for playing something completely useless) thus basically deleting the specialization. Good job, really.

[BlackBullWings.2734]

All the changes would've been fine if it wasn't for the Jade Sphere cooldown increase. it's just ridiculous, the entire spec revolves around it and you nerf it to beta1 stage, where everyone hated catalyst and how bad and clunky it worked.

Arenanet, stop basing your balance on benchmarks of idle golems where players are 100% booned up. It's not realistic, it does not represent class damage (and more importantly, class utility), in any real encounter.

These changes alltogether have damaged support catalyst builds far more than the dps ones. applying boons is extremely unreliable now, the elemental empowerment changes doesn't only lower dps, it lowers all the other stats as well.

 

I can no longer play tank support catalyst bc i can't apply boons for 15s, i cant do combo finishers to apply auras without swapping to a new weapon, i can no longer be as tanky with the trait changes.

I can no longer play diviner's catalyst bc i can't apply boons for 15s.

I can no longer play heal catalyst bc i have no secondary utility other than healing, because I can't apply boons for 15s, so every other healer is infinitely better

 

Revert the jade sphere back to 5s cooldown PLEASE

[Aru.2534]

1 hour ago, BlueTheRaptor.4576 said:

And the kicker is, elementalist is genuinely FUN to play.

Totally agree. Ele is one of unique classes in game which is very fun.  When catalyst was announced it was lolwut about hammer (longbow in not an option, better if dual pistols - no weapon swap!, but 2 hands - more combinations).  Ok then - tried, on 4th beta even had fun.  Made The Juggernaut (first of my legendaries).  Haven't tried any group content, only solo openworld and spvp.  Totally the spec and hammer looks like a challenge. And why not?  And here I am: buildcrafting, making gear, learning to play.  And now they "massacred my boy" totally.  Augments were not best full-set options, maybe 2-3 for me.  Trait lines questionable for hammer (for me new-catalyst is hammer-only because got filled with old ones since pof (it was years to play)).  Haven't tried it post-patch yet, but these days it was not so bad in open world, even enjoyable.  But now nerf to damage augment, also I believe notmuch-for-hammer max elemental empowerment at 100% not so worth to run all-in for it with hammer at least.  But Jade sphere!!!! Core spec mechanic! Aura-combo centric class! Static sphere! And now no combos for any variants! Why don't trade long boons for long CD only if you want this trait?  You gave no energy auto-refill, but now devastated core element of this class totally! You can't change sphere like hammer.  My gameplay point is: with hammer you juggle attunements and spheres and combos and press on or dance around enemies. And now this combo-centric buffed with auras gameplay is dead? Whole spec YOU gave us dead? Laughable after neglected longbow-pleaders. Like after you hospitalized after being hit by some truck, and doctors zap you trying to start your heart on - killing instead of healing.

I will be trying with hammer-catalyst. Maybe struggling. Because I love Ele profession.

And in the end some question: why building power through fighting is bad? With Catalyst you boost yourself, and in not stacks, by player's experience too. And that's great. Before EOD made necro - base it is some Overlord filled with all you need (even with 80-boost-cele gear). Like always in control of anything. With Ele - you build power with struggle. And now it's like collecting your broken teeth on the floor with broken fingers?

+1 believer that Anet hates Ele.

P.S. catalyst crown is s*it in design, and no community changes made from betas. FUUUU...

[scriptoimpium.7806]

I was never a real big fan of the catalyst to begin with. to me it felt like core ele with a shiny bauble. the rotation was wonky and left no room for error, and boy did it punish you if you got it wrong. but once I got the hang of it it wasn't bad, I still prefer weaver, but at least I could see it as a viable option. but this update has killed it, and I usually don't say stuff like this. I've mained ele since I got GW2 the Christmas after launch. I've stuck through a lot with my ele. but now I'm seriously thinking about changing my main, because this is a blatant display of hate for one of their own creations, because it was doing good under absolutely perfect circumstances. and I doubt that the devs would listen to us about this. it's honestly sad.

 

[Ruffy.2835]

At first, i wanted to add (like in the main discussion thread) that regardless all the hate of the changes people are still willing to give constructive suggestions and don't tend into a whole shitstorm show

i really appreciate that, though i can really understand it (you had to watch me during yesterdays raid... poor guild mates :/)

 

And i can totally relate to Raul's comment beneath his updated 33.5k DPS Video, that it was not taken into account how playable the former numbers are actually in real encounters

 

besides i was not the biggest fan to begin with, the challenge was there

 

tbh i don't know how to reach the devs and how they get their results from the community

after the beta events it seemed that they were listening to us, but according to what happenend now is unbelievable

 

the thing what also sticks oil into the fire is, that several other professions (e.g. specter) still performing tons of dps regarding their playstyle

[scriptoimpium.7806]

35 minutes ago, Ruffy.2835 said:

 

tbh i don't know how to reach the devs and how they get their results from the community

after the beta events it seemed that they were listening to us, but according to what happenend now is unbelievable

 

 

I've been debating on tagging @Rubi_ on twitter (the Content Marketing Strategist that hosts the guild chats on twitch) and see if she could get the forums to the right devs

[cgMatt.5162]

Overnerfed another very unrealistic golem DPS benchmark. Just how out of touch can they be?

Edited March 16, 2022 by cgMatt.5162

[Lyanna.9875]

2 hours ago, scriptoimpium.7806 said:

I've been debating on tagging @Rubi_ on twitter (the Content Marketing Strategist that hosts the guild chats on twitch) and see if she could get the forums to the right devs

 

and she mains ele...

[scriptoimpium.7806]

5 minutes ago, Lyanna.9875 said:

 

and she mains ele...

 

good, because i did tag her on twitter

[Flori.2194]

17 minutes ago, Lyanna.9875 said:

 

and she mains ele...

well... main and main are two different things... maybe it's her pet class, but she is really bad with it 😄

[Veprovina.4876]

I wish Mesmers had that sense of community and uproar when Anet did something unfair to us. 

And not get trolls with mental gymnastics every time trying to warp reality into "this nerf was needed" every time someone has a legitimate concern.

 

I can dream... 💭

[Rhokaz.1975]

Not much text required: You killed the ele.

A bit more but useful feedback:

Lets review your patchnotes:

• Deploy Jade Sphere: Cooldown increased from 5 seconds to 15 seconds in PvE, matching PvP and WvW.
  • This is like you want to throw a ball a bit, and the next time you use your full force. You miss the target terribly. You nerfed the cooldown of one of the most important spells not by 50% or 75%. You nerfed it by 300%!!!!! Seriously, what do you expect? It should be maybe 7 seconds or so, but not 15. This simply annihilates the usfullness of this spell entirely.
• Shattering Ice: Damage coefficient reduced from 0.3 to 0.15 in PvE only.
  • Half....why half.
• Relentless Fire: Damage bonus reduced from 15% to 10% in PvE only.
  • Now we got percentages. Fine. 5% more means not so much for one spell. But you do cast many spells. This simply sums up rapidly. Maybe 2% less would have made sence but why 5%?
• Empowered Empowerment: Elemental Empowerment effectiveness increase changed from 100% to 50% in PvE only.
  • You simply cut it in half. Yep again a huge nerf instead of a bit.
    
    All your adjustmens feel not like balanced out and well tested. More like "Oh we need to do something, lets simply use things that feel good, simply devide by 2 or multiply by 3, or devide or add 5". The result: You nerf from 44k to 33K.
    
    Honestly, PLEASE TEST YOUR CHANGES. Give it to a high end player that is very good with the rotation and benchmark the changes. Please do not simply shoot in a dark room and THAN turn on the light and evaluate if someone got hit. This way of doing changes ends up most likely in a desaster.
    
    Ok last but not least: I love EOD. You made a great game! My text above just shows the frustration on such moves. I hope this makes sense.

[scriptoimpium.7806]

1 hour ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

I wish Mesmers had that sense of community and uproar when Anet did something unfair to us. 

And not get trolls with mental gymnastics every time trying to warp reality into "this nerf was needed" every time someone has a legitimate concern.

 

I can dream... 💭

I'm an ele main, i do have three mesmers (doesn't mean I'm good at it) but I don't know if the devs are actually watching these threads, so if you go to other websites and tag them with a link to the discussions then at the very least you will know that they are aware of the displeasure. lead the charge into the battle like a charr.

[Flori.2194]

25 minutes ago, Rhokaz.1975 said:

Yep again a huge nerf instead of a bit.

That's their way of approaching balance in this game: They move around things once a year and call it "balance updates" instead of major updates a few times a year with smaller tweaking updates inbetween... They are either too lazy, too incompetent or not enough people... And I think it's all of it...

[Flori.2194]

6 minutes ago, scriptoimpium.7806 said:

I'm an ele main, i do have three mesmers (doesn't mean I'm good at it) but I don't know if the devs are actually watching these threads, so if you go to other websites and tag them with a link to the discussions then at the very least you will know that they are aware of the displeasure. lead the charge into the battle like a charr.

Well, realizing that they have no clue about the game they work at I highly doubt if they can even read...

 

Or they are mules and work secretly for Squenix and Final Fantasy Online...

Edited March 16, 2022 by Flori.2194

[fixit.7189]

it's dead, jim.

[nas.5249]

Seriously though, the expansion promotion videos promised an exciting and powerful new ele specialisation. But now we see that how out of touch the publicity department at anet is with their devs.

The devs came up with a barely playable new spec for eles. Two weeks later they spot a video made by one of the top players in the world achieving high dps on a test golem, and they nerf it into nothingness. 

The catalyst spec, from the start, was either badly thought out or a complete pi**-take. To give another mele weapon to the class with the lowest armor in the game,  shows, if nothing else an expectation that it will require skill to play. And then to nerf it as soon as there are signs that skilled players are actually playing it just cynical.

 

Honestly, I too regret paying for the expansion. Such a waste. 

Edited March 17, 2022 by dicemaster.1432

[Ruffy.2835]

14 hours ago, Rhokaz.1975 said:

Ok last but not least: I love EOD. You made a great game! My text above just shows the frustration on such moves. I hope this makes sense.

This is something i want to add, too. It's not like, I hate this game or whatever 😄 enjoying  that game since release  and they really really have done a good work on EoD so far. Yet, a couple of reactions on some professions are way to fast and not sophisticated, like in my dear ele's place.

 

One advantage is, that our community is bar far not that toxic as in other fields, so i really hope they reconsider what they've done with catalyst and boost it again and see what suggestions for improvement are here to read.

Because no matter how good the game is, that patch notes left me alone with my mouth wide open.

However, I really like the amount of memes which are approaching at this case :D.

 

Creativity level: Maximum

[Shiyo.3578]

On 3/16/2022 at 12:15 PM, Lyanna.9875 said:

 

and she mains ele...

Do they share their account name? I just played with a staff ele in game with the Anet tag.

Edited March 20, 2022 by Shiyo.3578

[Jski.6180]

On 3/16/2022 at 1:49 PM, Veprovina.4876 said:

I wish Mesmers had that sense of community and uproar when Anet did something unfair to us. 

And not get trolls with mental gymnastics every time trying to warp reality into "this nerf was needed" every time someone has a legitimate concern.

 

I can dream... 💭

I think its one of thoughts ele has been nerfed so often now with out any real buff for years that ele players are showing open aggression to anet. Tempest lost its 10 target support and got nothing to make up for it so catalyst could get an 5 target quickness effect and that was just nearfed hard.

Catalyst has become the best example of just how anet thinks of the ele class and the ele player base. A never ending set of nerfs to an set of effects that where never that good to start with and nearly impossible to make work right in an real world way. That and the general disregard for a player base with "we think its in a good places" statements that do not mean any thing to any one beyond telling the players "we dont care to even make an real excuse to why we are doing this."

Still no one of a kind effect for ele by for the fact that its missing MOST of the effects in gw2. Catalyst dose not seem to be any different.

Anet hates the ele class and the ele class players anet should not be shocked if the players start to hate anet.