Official Mount Adoption Feedback Thread [merged]

[Entrea Sumatae.7830]

This distribution system is nothing short of a travesty. Black Lion Chest exclusives are bad enough, but at least the Black Lion Exclusives Chest gives a passing attempt at making those fair and letting people bypass the RNG (and don't get me wrong, that is not nearly enough, but that's really for another thread). This mount adoption system is by far the most predatory and consumer-unfriendly system this game has ever come up with. A hundred thirty dollars for the set, more if you dare to try your luck and buy them one at a time and get unlucky. I'm frankly astounded by the sheer gall Anet has to pull this at a time where lashing back at loot boxes is really starting to hit in force. This system is the exact opposite of what I'd hoped to see in the game. I'd love to see a return to the days where gambling on things you wanted was strictly optional, and the results could be traded to people who didn't want to gamble. This whole trend where you have to buy gem store boxes for a random chance at what you really want is disgraceful, and introducing the first regular mount skins in this manner is a complete step in the wrong direction.

[snh.7091]

I recall one of my situations from the past on a game from a publisher I will not name whose games I haven't touched since and never will - they too had this system with the loot boxes with super nice items and very exclusive mounts that were gated behind super random RNG. That was the only time in my life I gambled in a game and the thought haunts me to this day having wasted over 150 EUR and getting nothing useful in return. There were people who spent thousands of USD and got nothing and you should have seen the outrage.

The company responded by banning those people, which of course make them look even worse because they were clearly denying the truth by force.

Then of course they protect themselves and their shoddy practices with EULAs and policies that allow them to get away with this. The problem lies with users who cannot resist to indulge their addiction and this is a major issue because companies prey on the weak-minded.

Practices like this should be forbidden by law and anyone conducting them should be prosecuted and punished. Even though this trend emerged over a decade ago I clearly remember the first outcries against it and predictions of how bad this will be for the gaming industry and it is.

Gambling is a serious problem. A health issue. And by introducing practices like this the game itself is straying away from a casual, healthy, fun and relaxing environment.

[Kapax.3801]

I believe that they would earn more money selling each skin individually...Recolor: 400 gems (5 dollars)Recolor+new accessories: 700 gems ( 8-9 dollars)New Mount: 800-900 gems (10+ dollars)

It's just an example, but they should be more realistic with prices.

[elsendor.3251]

The funny thing is I'd buy all thirty in a heartbeat if it weren't RNG. I can afford it right now, but others can't, and they don't deserve to have to wade through gambling hell to get the one or two skins they actually want. It's not about my wallet, it's about the ethics involved in lootbox type tactics.

[battledrone.8315]

im afraid, that RNG boxes are in all the big mmos nowi dont care much about mount skins, but those boxes will lead to excessive whalingthey may bring in some short term cash, but will lose you players in the long term

[sparkytart.1820]

I kind of agree with people's dislike of all the skins being RNG based. In my opinion, I'd also prefer quality over quantity in regards to mount skins. The Balth hound mount looks very different from the original jackal (even if 2000 gems is kind of overboard in cost), but I'd prefer it to just be the same system gliders are on. Rotate out a nice new skin every once in a while that really changes the mounts, some of the adoption skins that alter the mount a little are okay, but for the most part they are just recolors and re-textures that don't offer much incentive to spend five dollars when you get the same animal with a very bizarre, unnatural color pattern. If RNG is really how you guys want to do minor reskins like that, at LEAST make it "Raptor Adoption Contracts" and so on, so people can at least have a shot at the type they want, people are getting griffon skins when they don't even have a griffon mount to ride...

[Silmar Alech.4305]

The principle of gambling was already very strong in GW2, at the edge of being dishonest. We all know the pictures of almost homeless people in gambling dens putting coins into slot machines all day. These people are wasting their lives. GW2 educates especially young people to gamble, to do what those people do. Give their money, waste their precious life time and suck all out of it while giving back worthless clay toys. This is dishonest. A game playable by 12 year old children must not contain this.The mount skin gambling items are really over the edge. This has become an adult-only game. If I had children, I would be required to lock them away from this game.

Extensions, unlocking living season episodes are things worth buying. Even character slots, since it implies the player is using the game more than standard, thus paying more than standard.

[Iyvathae.3482]

I would have loved to buy mount skins for 400 gems – if I could have picked the ones I wanted.Rng loot boxes are disgusting and the reforged skin is way too expensive in my opinion.I will not buy gems as long as these rng loot boxes exist and will probably quit the game because I can't stand them.

[Ashani.8530]

I have no problem buying gems with real money in order to get items I really want, but the randomness of paying all that money for a mount skin that I may or may not like is just too much. Never one who does well with RNG, it's not worth spending that much money for the hope of getting a couple of skins I'd actually like to have rather than the many that I wouldn't care to use. Oh so disappointing.

[Olterin Fire.5960]

I'd have probably bought a skin or two if they were not released in this format. Unfortunately for Anet, I absolutely refuse to support predatory RNG lootboxes, I have yet to buy a single black lion chest key for that very reason. A very small amount of RNG might be palatable, but everything present to date was not. Neither is this. I'm very disappointed.

[ShadowZX.7801]

Dear ANET, I have been a customer in GW2 for more than enough time to have a reason for this feedback. Of all the things I've seen in the game throughout the years, this "adoption license" has to be the worst idea ever. So you considered the fact that people love mounts and would like variety? Fair enough. We do love them and we do want variety. But what devil managed to convince you to adopt RNG for picking mount skins? Why couldn't it be the same as the glider skins? Why not pick a specific skin for 400 gems? You'd think that a lof of your customers would be happy to give you those money if they had a guarantee at what they wanted. It's been already decided that RNG is something customers hate, especially when money is involved, more importantly when GW2 is involved, since we always had the specific cosmetic we wanted to buy instead of some crap RNG drops. Of course that can be debatable for the few black lion chest drops, but regardless of that mostly every cosmetic was accessible and reasonable. Now, my question to you, dear Anet, is this... Do you want your customers to hate you? Or continue holding you dear? This decision was taken without any regard to your playerbase or even the mass complaints on social media about companies that have used the same system. Please stop insulting us by throwing such bad practices in our faces. If you want our money, give us cosmetics fair and square, nobody will complain if they know what they are paying for. Wake up before you lose too much. That is all I wish to say, I hope to see this mess cleared up.

[Changer the Elder.2948]

@Chadramar.8156 said:

@Halbarz.3854 said:Also people have to remember that a company has to make MONEY they do not get around by paying everyone there with cookies.

That is not an argument. The game industry is filthy rich, partly because it is badly regulated. Nobody,

especially

not the corporate suits who tend to push these unethical and exploitative moneymaking schemes, "needs" to scrabble for every sad cent to survive. They do it because of sheer greed. And franky, if a company "has" to rely on lootboxes, that is not a company that deserves to continue business because it does not live on customer satisfaction with quality products, it lives on scummy predatory practices that are overdue for better legislation across the planet.

When I look at the games I enjoyed the most over the past years, none of them engaged in this BS. Many games do not. Please do not help the shady parts of the industry, especially among the immensely rich AAA studios, normalize increasingly unethical practices. This is not a situation of "oh these poor devs need to make money every way they can or we won't have any games anymore". It never has been, it never will be. And even if it was, it wouldn't be

worth

it.

As much as I hate the new mounts, I'll be the first to stand up and shout this statement is false in pretty much everything it says. ArenaNet, just like any company, has to make money to feed its employees. Even EA, Bioware, Ubisoft and other studios need to do so. What you think being a multimillion dollar industry dilutes money very fast, because the food chain in entertainment business is very long and contains a ton of middle management to be able to offer what it does. If you think every developer can buy a new Mercedes every other week, you have absolutely no idea how gaming industry really works.

[BlakThornArrow.2389]

I like the fact you call it "Adopt a mount" but then there is now choice involved. I for one tried it and got a springer skin which I dont like..... So that makes me as a costumer Unhappy. I dont mind buying Mount skins at all, But either give us the option to choose a line of which mount we wish to unlock or give us the regular choice of choosing the one we want. I mean armor skins for 400gems in the store we can also preview and buy if we like m why not with mounts?

[Ayumi Spender.1082]

@Traveller.7496 said:I am willing to buy mount skins. I thought that if they are 800 per skin, I could still buy a few I like. But these prices, this system, it's wrong.

The random aspect is what annoys me. It caters only to the richest players who will get the skin they want by buying all of them, the rest will have to suck it up.

I know why this system is in place though. Some of the skins are quite mediocre and no one would buy them if sold separately. But that is the fault of the graphic designer, not the customer.

I'm into graphics. You can't blame the designer. Blame the graphics director. The designer is only doing what they're told.

"So... that raptor... just make these 2 horns stick up a bit more than the original...? Okay... if you say so..."

[Sister Saxifrage.7361]

I think it's incredibly sleazy, even predatory if you consider those with gambling addictions. I'm very disappointed that this is the direction ANet is taking. I would pay twice the price for individual skins of my choice, but I will not be paying into the current arrangement at all, and far more reluctant in future to buy anything from the gemstore period.

[elsendor.3251]

@Changer the Elder.2948 said:

@Chadramar.8156 said:

@Halbarz.3854 said:Also people have to remember that a company has to make MONEY they do not get around by paying everyone there with cookies.

That is not an argument. The game industry is filthy rich, partly because it is badly regulated. Nobody,

especially

not the corporate suits who tend to push these unethical and exploitative moneymaking schemes, "needs" to scrabble for every sad cent to survive. They do it because of sheer greed. And franky, if a company "has" to rely on lootboxes, that is not a company that deserves to continue business because it does not live on customer satisfaction with quality products, it lives on scummy predatory practices that are overdue for better legislation across the planet.

When I look at the games I enjoyed the most over the past years, none of them engaged in this BS. Many games do not. Please do not help the shady parts of the industry, especially among the immensely rich AAA studios, normalize increasingly unethical practices. This is not a situation of "oh these poor devs need to make money every way they can or we won't have any games anymore". It never has been, it never will be. And even if it was, it wouldn't be

worth

it.

As much as I hate the new mounts, I'll be the first to stand up and shout this statement is false in pretty much everything it says.

ArenaNet, just like any company, has to make money to feed its employees.

Even EA, Bioware, Ubisoft and other studios need to do so. What you think being a multimillion dollar industry dilutes money very fast, because the food chain in entertainment business is very long and contains a ton of middle management to be able to offer what it does. If you think every developer can buy a new Mercedes every other week, you have absolutely no idea how gaming industry really works.

anet employees need to eat yes, but if you really think anet's struggling just to make ends meet and pay its employees you're really naive. the greed we're talking about isn't the devs, it's the corporations that own them and want to keep lining their pockets with more and more additional revenue.

[Llethander.3972]

I'm sorry, there is no way I'm willing to spend nearly $10CA for a completely random skin. If I could choose which skin I wanted, that would be a different story.

I'm actually surprised this wasn't done League of Legends style with basic skin alterations being a low price, more noticeable skin alterations being a somewhat higher price, and "premium" skin alterations being a higher, premium price.

[Cristalyan.5728]

@Coulter.2315 said:

You don't have a leg to stand on claiming this is gambling, it is just extremely expensive and badly designed (leaving an awful taste in the mouth). No casino on earth gives you a jackpot guaranteed after a maximum of 30 rolls. There very clearly is a limit, 30 rolls.

There is buckets wrong with this purchasing model, inventing wrong problems does not help.

According to your point of view, the gambling (and the lottery) cannot even exists. Why? Because if you have enough money to cover any single combination you have a guaranteed jackpot. To be more specific: In my country, the actual lottery system allows 14 millions separate combinations. If you buy all the 14 millions you have a guaranteed jackpot. This turns it into a non lottery business? The fact that ANet offers you the jackpot after only 30 rolls does not change the fact that what we have here is in fact a lottery.

To the topic. What we have now is the result of a long process. A process in which ANet gradually disconnected itself from its playerbase and from its own game. A process in which the players accepted ANet deviations as being something normal. Do you remember the trend of " ANet knows better than you what is good for you en vogue around 2 years ago and continued until recently? The players accepted this. The few voices against this were silenced by the "white knights" and by the indifference of the others. We can find this "ANet knows better than you ..." thing in almost every controversial aspect of the game:

• Economy of the game: The issue of the leather / Mystic Coins / unbalanced recipes etc.
• Gameplay: class balances / lack of updates (or new content) / ruining old content - anyone remembers the dungeons? / content gating etc
• Commercial lies: a full set of legendary weapons with HoT / legendary journeys for weapons (turned into legendary wood-chopping) / classes with unique mechanics - what do you think about the uniqueness of Alacrity? etc
• QoL - nothing to do with the essence of luck - if you have max MF this is a "reward" you should destroy to free the inventory .... I'm sure you can find other aspects too - this was the first it came in my mind.
• The original Manifesto of the game says "Play how you want". Now they admitted (by "fixing" the XP aspect without raid Mastery) that in fact they wanted to force the players to do raids. This clearly shows that ANet discarded the original Manifesto. But they put nothing to replace it. In this moment ANet, without a declaration of intention looks like sailing without a destination.

I stop here because the list is too long to write it into a reasonable post.But, all the above aspects were criticized by some, and invariable answered with " ANet knows better than you what is good for you". And we (the playerbase) legitimate this by blindly buying all the .... stuff they released on TP (and on the market also - see PoF).

To conclude: As long as we don't act as responsible customers ANet will continue to believe that "We (Anet) know better than you what is good for you". If we don't make them realize that a game cannot exist only by having a developers team and a promoting company but also it needs players, ANet will never change. They will continue to believe that "Anet knows better than you what is good for you"

[Kidel.2057]

@BunjiKugashira.9754 said:ANet added Loot-Boxes and I didn't like them. But it was ok, since all their rare contents could be purchased on the TP.ANet added random dies and I didn't like them. But it was ok, since you could buy them on the TP.ANet added account-bound stuff to the Loot-Boxes and it was the first time I was genuenly disgusted. This was not ok. But there were plenty alternatives to these skins, so I did my best to ignore the Loot-Boxes.Now ANet added random mount skins and I feel like the company is laughing at us. Laughing at all the YouTuber who worked their kitten off to draw new players in for PoF. Laughing at all the old players who came back for the expansion. Laughing at everyone who stayed even during the content draught. At the highest peak of player-activity since a long time ANet decides to start the whale-hunt of the century. And I don't know what disgusts me more, having to pay up to 120 € for the skin I want or the fact that LA is full of whales who did pay the 120 € for all skins.

Let me tell you: The end-time is near. The gem-shop is headed directly in the direction that many ftp games went before. It's only a matter of time now before ANet starts selling character progression (oh, they already did) and then raw power.

True, but they're also already selling raw power, since TP boosters DO work in WvW.

[Voonith.2561]

RNG boxes for the mount skins is a really stupid move. If I could buy them individually, I would eventually buy them all; but with RNG now ANet gets none of my money.

[Kidel.2057]

@Raeysa Penrose.8450 said:

@Changer the Elder.2948 said:

@Chadramar.8156 said:

@Halbarz.3854 said:Also people have to remember that a company has to make MONEY they do not get around by paying everyone there with cookies.

That is not an argument. The game industry is filthy rich, partly because it is badly regulated. Nobody,

especially

not the corporate suits who tend to push these unethical and exploitative moneymaking schemes, "needs" to scrabble for every sad cent to survive. They do it because of sheer greed. And franky, if a company "has" to rely on lootboxes, that is not a company that deserves to continue business because it does not live on customer satisfaction with quality products, it lives on scummy predatory practices that are overdue for better legislation across the planet.

When I look at the games I enjoyed the most over the past years, none of them engaged in this BS. Many games do not. Please do not help the shady parts of the industry, especially among the immensely rich AAA studios, normalize increasingly unethical practices. This is not a situation of "oh these poor devs need to make money every way they can or we won't have any games anymore". It never has been, it never will be. And even if it was, it wouldn't be

worth

it.

As much as I hate the new mounts, I'll be the first to stand up and shout this statement is false in pretty much everything it says.

ArenaNet, just like any company, has to make money to feed its employees.

Even EA, Bioware, Ubisoft and other studios need to do so. What you think being a multimillion dollar industry dilutes money very fast, because the food chain in entertainment business is very long and contains a ton of middle management to be able to offer what it does. If you think every developer can buy a new Mercedes every other week, you have absolutely no idea how gaming industry really works.

anet employees need to eat yes, but if you really think anet's struggling just to make ends meet and pay its employees you're really naive. the greed we're talking about isn't the devs, it's the corporations that own them and want to keep lining their pockets with more and more additional revenue.

This is not going to pay them as much as an healthy TP would have paid. RNG is NOT the best way to get money.

I'd have bought a couple or more of those skins if they were 800 Gems each, even 1000 each, but I won't even give 400 Gems for a random one.And I'm pretty sure most of the players I know would say the same. So they got 400-9600 Gems (depending on luck) from a small group of players, opposed to 1000-3000+ Gems from a larger group (including people from the previous one). Not to mention people who would have bought ALL the skins for 30000 Gems.

Their marketing guys took economy lessons from Donald Trump.

[Kraitan.8476]

And not a single fucking mount skin from in-game achievements or rewards... Rightnow mount skins only display that you're a dumb fuck who threw money at his screen trying to desperately get what he wants. Thanks for funding my next expac kids. I will keep my money to myself and pay another 25 euros for another expac in 2-3 years. Untill then Anet will have to drain the dumb.

[Kidel.2057]

Now their best solution is to basically refund everybody and sell them individually. I don't really know if that would make everyone happy (probably guys who got the best mount at first try won't be happy at all, but that's a minority).

[Dianekas.4359]

The 2k gemstore skin costs nearly the same as the PoF standard edition...let it sink in for a minute...

[Esterie.7409]

Once we knew we would be getting mount skins, I eagerly awaited individual skins so I could pick and choose which ones I wanted for each mount type. Now, though.... I can't say I'm so excited. Between the RNG aspect and the high price of an individual skin, I'm disappointed all-around. 2,000 gems for a single skin is a high, borderline unrealistic price point. I,000 gems I could understand, because the skin is so different from the standard jackal model. But at almost the price of an expansion, I think it is just too high.

And now to the RNG skins. With RNG lootboxes becoming a staple in a lot of games recently, and with the slow introduction of RNG to the gem store (seasonal weapon skins, outfits, etc. in Black Lion Chests), I knew it was only a matter of time before there would be something added that took RNG to the extreme. I didn't necessarily have an issue with the RNG items added to Black Lion Chests because it was sparse, an item or two every few months. Or in the case of dye packs, an ability to buy said dyes from other players off of the trading post. But 30 skins with only an RNG-designed way to acquire them leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Like others have said, I have absolutely no qualms about spending real money to buy gems. That is, to buy things from the gem store that are for-sure purchases, where I can clearly see what it is I'm buying so I am happy with my purchase. But I would never buy gems for a 1/30 (1/29, 1/28.... etc.) chance at the skin I want. There many lovely mount skins now that I would absolutely buy outright if they were priced similarly to how gliders were priced (~700-800 gems or so especially for the skins with particle effects), but because of the RNG aspect, I will not spend a single cent. I can't in good conscience support what is essentially virtual gambling.

As much upset that has been expressed over the past day or so, I don't know if or how much this will change considering just how many people I saw in DR and LA proudly zooming around on the new mount skins, declaring how many licences it took to receive them. I've heard from many people in my online social circle who made their disappointment at the acquisition method known, yet went and bought a few licenses anyway. Not to mention the whales who I'm sure unlocked all the skins within minutes of the patch dropping yesterday. Adding RNG mount skins was a divisive change, one not made in good faith of the consumers (IMO), but I can see why it was made. Unfortunately.

In short, if I had to sum up my feelings in four words or less: Disappointed, but not surprised.

Editing to add: After reading additional comments, I'm starting to become afraid that this dependence on RNG could lead us down a slippery slope, with RNG boxes being added for more and more gem store items. Honestly, at this point it's not that much of a stretch to imagine this concept being applied to outfits and weapon skins in the future.....