Upcoming 3/29 changes for Elementalist

[Terminsel.5728]

It's a step in the right direction, but unfortunately, I don't think it's going to go much further than what we see here and subsequent tinkering with coefficients and cooldowns at this point. The Energy mechanic alone keeps things awkward, but Revenant has Energy too and they've never changed that. Class mechanics and trait lines are not going to get earth shattering alterations this far into development and release. We've seen traits get re-worked before, but it's usually been nerfs or to kill off traits for some kind of long term change, not a total re-invention of specialization mechanics.

 

If Cata does comparable DPS to Quickbrand, it still takes over zero spots from Quickbrands in group content. If it does more DPS, it will just get coefficients nerfed back to fit in with the rest of the pack of Quickness providers. Anet is never going to be able to nerf Firebrand enough to lower it down to the level of other Quickness providers in terms of additional supporting mechanics without destroying it utterly. And let me be clear I'm not calling for Firebrand nerfs. I play it myself, so please don't come at me Firebrand readers! However, they also are never going to make Augments as good as Mantras. It would create too many new imbalances. They appear to be extremely careful about avoiding the creation of anything that is as strong as Firebrand support again because I get the sense they feel like they overcooked it a bit. Even though they say things like they want to bring other specializations up to Firebrand's level so groups can bring the player and not the class, they haven't yet brought anything close to Firebrand's level.

 

I think Catalyst is a great illustration of how far they are willing to go. It's basically -

Oh... you don't have anything with Quick or Alac? Here... have some Quick. Now we can say that you've got a place in the meta. What's that? You don't have group support? Well... you've got Auras. Ta ta!

 

Except... Catalysts don't have a spot in the Quickness meta because they don't have all those other group support on-demand things. And Anet can't give Catalysts Firebrand kinds of stuff because it would create Firebrand 2.0 and make Catalysts way too OP. They don't actually seem to want Firebrand 2.0, and I can't say I blame them. Plus, I don't think I'd even want Catalyst to be super similar to Firebrand, because that just homogenizes the specializations. However, in the end, there's simply no displacing the Firebrand without radical adjustments to various specializations or to the entire Boon support meta.

 

As far as I can see, Catalyst looks a lot like a selfish version of Tempest with a stationary boon field that requires blast finishers (more work than Shouts) making it is less useful than damage from Overloads EXCEPT that one of them provides Quickness. However, that Quickness is harder to upkeep on your group than other Quickness providers. After these changes, along with the Exposed changes, endgame groups will still not want Weavers, Tempests, or Catalysts compared to other specializations which do all the same things these specializations do, except they do it more easily and usually with more CC or other group support. Some of the auras are interesting, but if you are maintaining your rotation, they aren't as "on demand" in PvE endgame fights as boons from other classes. It might be interesting for planning out your moves in competitive modes, but long animations or delays to get to those auras make that mostly irrelevant there too.

 

Also, the reduction of the Orb's damage coefficient takes this class from being fun in Open World with all the cleave it had to being nigh unplayable. Have fun being knocked down by all the AI creatures while waiting for your weapon animations to finish (unless you take the Stab on aura gen trait). Some variant of Condi weaver still looks like the best Open World option after this. Pre-nerf two weeks ago, Catalyst was amazing in Open World. I actually felt like I was finally having as easy of a time on it as I do on several other classes when geared for DPS. Now? I continue to leave the hammer precursor that I had set aside for it on the shelf. There's just no reason to use it or Catalyst.

I would like to make suggestions on Catalyst, but the complexity they've set up with it doesn't make it easy. Essentially, I think some of the ideas in the thread from the other posters are pretty good... Things like deploying the Orb on Attunement swap automatically and maybe doing something else with Hammer Skill 3 to enhance the deployed Orb and then make F5 the finisher trigger. I feel like there's something to be worked out exploring that route. But I just don't think they are going to do any of that. There's no rational way they can spend a bunch of time making Catalyst juuuust right, when they have 8 other specs to tune, plus 9 new specs for the next expansion. I think they're just going to say, "You've got full uptime Quickness now and don't have game breaking DPS. Other than some minor tweaks, our job here is done." They don't care how hard it is to apply or maintain. They just care that it can exist and can be full time. Revenant vs Chrono Alac is the already existing example of this situation.

I really hope I'm wrong.

[draxynnic.3719]

18 hours ago, gooddrakkarboi.4870 said:

Yes, it solves some of hammers issues. What still remains are the lackluster augments, the clunky and static use of F5 and the uninspired traitlines... so something like 0.8/4 was done...

Pretty much. It's a step in the right direction. With the orbs no longer representing the majority of hammer's power budget, give it a boost to the range of fire and air attunements and it might actually have a chance of becoming the ranged/melee hybrid weapon it wants to be. That was never going to happen while orbs were a large proportion of its strength.

There's still a lot to go, though. Catalyst probably requires a scrapper-level rework.

Honestly, with the augments? I'd probably just make them summon the jade sphere in question if you have the energy. It'd be an interesting interaction for augments to be able to generate an orb of a different attunement to the one you're in, and it would maintain a link between augments and the sphere without being as clunky as the current system. They could then make the conditional trigger on being in the correct attunement when you use it, so it doesn't feel like a waste if the sphere you create is the same you could have created just by using F5. (Or whatever you have that mapped to.)

[Poelala.2830]

No PvP changes?

[Bleikopf.2491]

I'm happy about the changes. 

Still, the mood is soured by having castrated the spec first.

Hope they'll put some of those changes into PvP/WvW as the orbs are really interesting there. 

[Kozumi.5816]

Good changes for DPS, but if I wanted to play a dps I'd swap to weaver. I play catalyst to support, which is currently not fun, or effective, and headache inducing.

Edited March 26, 2022 by Kozumi.5816

[Clownmug.8357]

Wow, pve only. I think I'm going to be sick.

[Aru.2534]

Suggestions:  1. Grand Finale for all modes: 0.3 second cd after orb activation - to prevent instant launch by mistake; also no cd for Grand Finale for shooting orbs one by one if needed.  2. Decrease Jade sphere cd to 12 seconds or increase its duration up to 7 seconds.

[Dadnir.5038]

14 hours ago, Clownmug.8357 said:

Wow, pve only. I think I'm going to be sick.

They are using PvE to beta test ideas for catalyst.

[Stallic.2397]

1 hour ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

They are using PvE to beta test ideas for catalyst.

 

They said that? No debate, but how'd you find that out? 

[Dadnir.5038]

31 minutes ago, Stallic.2397 said:

They said that? No debate, but how'd you find that out? 

Nope, I'm just guessing. Anyway, they won't have competitive modes and PvE to different so there is a high probability that what happen in PvE is either a failure or end up coming to pvp.

[SkinnyT.5382]

I think these are definite improvements, but I still think the hammer needs more cohesiveness. All skills should be long distance, and that's the hill I'm going to die on.

Every Spec has a leaning curve; but I have never had an issue  creating a build using a Specs unique weapon, quite as bad I am for the Catalyst.

[Clownmug.8357]

28 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Nope, I'm just guessing. Anyway, they won't have competitive modes and PvE to different so there is a high probability that what happen in PvE is either a failure or end up coming to pvp.

 

They don't test anything. That's why they're doing these changes in the first place.

[Emperor Palpatine.5329]

What I don’t understand dear Anet is why are you insisting on making catalyst a thing?  Just admit the bad design (it’s not the only spec that EOD had tbh) and just re-think it?

OK, so you made a hammer and I get it - you don’t want to change it! At least re-think the skills and what they offer. Again I say this: It does not make any sense to have 4 diff skill sets with mele/semi-range. Just make them easy and fun to play. Here’s an idea: make them all ranged. Ele is not a class with so much survivability for your average player.

Also the skill effects are garbage, complicated to play (and your changes sure ain’t making it easier) and a huge let down from (and I can’t believer I’m saying this) weaver.  You build the whole spec along the idea of the jade sphere and ammm it was literally no use :)))

[gooddrakkarboi.4870]

9 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

They are using PvE to beta test ideas for catalyst.

Imagine if they gave the spec to players before release and asked them for feedback for nearly 6 months. We would be in paradise right now!