Please increase sources of Elemental Empowerment, even benchmarks struggle to keep up 10 stacks.

[zeyeti.8347]

Simple change would be make EE Increase doubled just base not only at 10 charges , and why not increase the duration with this grandmaster trait.

EE is a strong buff indeed , having +20% stats is by far one of the most powerfull buff you could get by my opinion , but people forget that for having that we have 4 traits working together to "try" upkeep this buff  (Vicious Empowerment,Elemental Empowerment,Elemental Epitome,Empowered Empowerment) and even with that it's fairly hard to keep.

Looking at other classes damage grandmaster trait are straight forward , +10% damage if X or Y but for cata it's much more complicated , just imagine a new player reading how elemental epitome works , ... would make him turn mech pew pew right after ...

Edited December 8, 2022 by zeyeti.8347

[Batalix.2873]

On 3/29/2022 at 12:33 PM, Ace.1784 said:

Elemental Empowerment opens up some interesting buildcraft and I think it's quite obvious the goal isn't to sit at 10 stacks permanently but instead have particular moments where you exceed your maximum effectiveness.

 

 

Why is this getting downvoted and laughed at? It's a legit observation that EE is an interesting way to use buffs to create burst windows. This community has been so spoiled by reachable crit cap and permaboons, I swear. 😛

[Batalix.2873]

On 3/29/2022 at 12:33 PM, Ace.1784 said:

Elemental Empowerment opens up some interesting buildcraft and I think it's quite obvious the goal isn't to sit at 10 stacks permanently but instead have particular moments where you exceed your maximum effectiveness.

 

 

Why is this getting downvoted and laughed at? It's a legit observation that EE is an interesting way to use buffs to create burst windows. This community has been so spoiled by reachable crit cap and permaboons, I swear. 😛

[pninak.1069]

EE is already well enough in duration and power that it fits all the criteria you mentioned. all you need it for is the highest hitting skill in the chain and then start the rotation again. overall it is pretty busted already imo as it can increase all attributes you have.

[zeyeti.8347]

17 hours ago, pninak.1069 said:

EE is already well enough in duration and power that it fits all the criteria you mentioned. all you need it for is the highest hitting skill in the chain and then start the rotation again. overall it is pretty busted already imo as it can increase all attributes you have.

What you say is fine if only catalyst was not overly complicated to play , looking at your EE stacks and planning to strike with the more hard skills that time ... remember the attune mechanics ? the energy hidden mechanic who stop grinding when you use  a sphere ? sphere also used in conjonction with augment skills ? the skill 3 from hammer needed to launch when the passiv defensiv and offensiv are almost done in a combo field for those EE stacks ... also planning to know when your energy will start flowing again and use the most xxxx strike skill to fill your energy up as quickly as possible.

I am talking if you want your catalyst to be optimal in endgame encounters and i maintain what i said up , ... even snowcrow bench arent able to upkeep the EE stacks making "Empowered Empowerment" a really undertuned grandmaster trait ... i would rather prefer the EE stacks have less duration but each time you have one you refresh the time of all the others , like the defensiv and offensiv trait just before does .

Edited December 9, 2022 by zeyeti.8347

[pninak.1069]

it is not that complicated. imo it is similiar to bladesworn in difficulty in that once you mess up you can have a short window where you can wait for your skills to recharge. personally I use glyph of storm for energy management. then I have arcane wave for stacks of ee when attuned to earth. I learn when to pop the last skill when attuned to a specific element. tbh the skill 3 in all bars makes it even even easier to circle through the skills. all you need is ajust a lineup of attunements and then follow that.

[zeyeti.8347]

personnaly i think bladesworn is way easier , in real fight situation keeping track of all the stuff i mentionned above is difficult , bladesworn have some port and some aegis to help him out (even they are on a long cd , the ult allow 1 ammo refill.)

the problem here is that EE take 4 whole traits to work out , and it isnt even 100% of the time ... so having a grandmaster trait working like what ? 33% of the time ? it's underwhelming , just having efficiency of EE doubled should allow player with less piano skills to reach further the benchmark , ppl able to upkeep way longer 10 stacks will still be gifted and ppl not able less punished.

 

 

[pninak.1069]

wouldn't this potentially lead to dmg nerfs? personally I just use 3 traits for it to work. the one for arcane, one for gaining it when immob or stunning and the one for it to be enhanced so I an even take spectacular sphere with me, which buffs the dmg.

[Nephalem.8921]

6 hours ago, pninak.1069 said:

wouldn't this potentially lead to dmg nerfs? personally I just use 3 traits for it to work. the one for arcane, one for gaining it when immob or stunning and the one for it to be enhanced so I an even take spectacular sphere with me, which buffs the dmg.

What can you reach with that version? Because the complicated rotation is at 36k currently

[pninak.1069]

not sure I play pve and don't use arcdps. benchmarks are weird anyways because the highest benchmarks work in a isolated environment only.

[zeyeti.8347]

On 12/10/2022 at 11:17 AM, pninak.1069 said:

not sure I play pve and don't use arcdps. benchmarks are weird anyways because the highest benchmarks work in a isolated environment only.

Thats my point there , if i play an overly complicated build i want to rip the arcdps , iam not playing it arcane , nor anything else , i play it full zerk , fire traits , air traits .

in endgame you dont want self convenience interfere with your dps , i am currently training on ht cm , trying reach , 35-40k bench .

i see at your comment you dont  neccessarly care about a rotation or the damage you do , i am talking benchmark from snowcrow , the +- 46k/s , where you see even there the 10 stacks isnt regularly up , and thats on a non moving nor attacking pinata , resulting ona  dense fight even less stacks , tahts why the idea of just applying the efficiency doubled based on all stacks is a good one.

On 12/9/2022 at 9:01 PM, pninak.1069 said:

wouldn't this potentially lead to dmg nerfs? personally I just use 3 traits for it to work. the one for arcane, one for gaining it when immob or stunning and the one for it to be enhanced so I an even take spectacular sphere with me, which buffs the dmg.

Less damage ? Empowered Empowerment going stacks efficiency +100% regardless of how many stacks ... how is this a damage nerf ... think you missread there . A grandmaster trait only working 25% of the time , even with all traits related to it put on , is weak !

Edited December 11, 2022 by zeyeti.8347

[pninak.1069]

no the potential is that after you can maintain it it might justify nerfing smth else. regarding grandmaster working 25% of the time I can say that this is the case with a lot of classes. untamed ff works 100% of the time, but even there the way you have to keep it up denies any useful combination for dps as other traits with flat dmg modifier are stronger than shorter cd.

[zeyeti.8347]

5 minutes ago, pninak.1069 said:

no the potential is that after you can maintain it it might justify nerfing smth else. regarding grandmaster working 25% of the time I can say that this is the case with a lot of classes. untamed ff works 100% of the time, but even there the way you have to keep it up denies any useful combination for dps as other traits with flat dmg modifier are stronger than shorter cd.

Which classes have a grandmaster trait dps increase working 25% of the time ? 

[pninak.1069]

most of the classes. some classes get the benefit only working when a specific action is used. bs can use it every 8 seconds. so 7/8 is the time the trait isn't used so only 12.5% of the time. fb it works only if you are in the tome which you aren't 100% of the time. chronophantasma works only when you summon phantasms.

[zeyeti.8347]

7 minutes ago, pninak.1069 said:

most of the classes. some classes get the benefit only working when a specific action is used. bs can use it every 8 seconds. so 7/8 is the time the trait isn't used so only 12.5% of the time. fb it works only if you are in the tome which you aren't 100% of the time. chronophantasma works only when you summon phantasms.

Thats not the same kind of trait , bladesworn can use it dragon trigger more ferquently than that (alacrity and Dragonspike Mine) , as for the traits who increase the damage of it the more noticable is Berserker's Power which if you play correctly has his 4 stacks always running , as for Fb you can enter tome any time you want so you can have quickfire proc your self quickness whenever it's up , chronophantasma works on phantasm .. its' a straight +100% damage and effect on every phantasm you use , no internal cd. 

You are choosing weird examples... i am talking passiv damlage increase , not skills like dragon trigger ...

Edited December 11, 2022 by zeyeti.8347

[pninak.1069]

true, but you also gain alac. I find it alright o have it availab le when I want the biggest spike otherwise when I can keep it up the impirtance of the spike might become secondary. for bs you even need dragonspikemine if you want to gain berserker's power buff.

 

yes I don't use benchmarks and come uo with my own rotations, which I learn to change depending on situation. bs in perticular doesn't allow any change while other classes like ele and mesmer allow it. think we have a mixed idea on how we want our dmg packages delivered. back in gw1 you had the choice of many fast smaller ones or bigger ones with less frequency.

[zeyeti.8347]

If you dont care about benchmark , you cannot undertstand my meaning in any ways , because i only care about that ! When i play healer i want to have all my boons uptime near 100% , if i play dps i always try to be on top bench , i nearly do 0 pve OW , taht stuff bores me till i fall asleep .

My meaning is the harder the rotation the higher the result , and if you dont look at your own bench how can you see how you perform ... i think if by any ways you look at your bench you will be really dissapointed .

Edited December 11, 2022 by zeyeti.8347

[pninak.1069]

I don't try raids because ppl worship benchmarks and wonder when the raid community shrinks.

[zeyeti.8347]

Well you have to for some content where you need sharp dps as timing is really tight , but indeed if you only pve OW you couldnt care little about EE , but for endgame i make a huge difference .

[pninak.1069]

I can still care as overall dps increase makes stuff die in ow even faster. I am mostly of the opinion that dmg should be removed from the game rather than added, which is happening so far all the time. the impact of the ferocity nerf has pretty much evaporated.

[Arkaile.5604]

I've been gone and only occasionally checking back to see how much more fuel Anet has added to the dumpster fire that is class balance in gw2, but here I am again, posting something late at night after drinking too much.

@pninak.1069 you take the cake. You roll up in this thread where people are talking about class balance in high end pve content and you have said numerous times that you have little experience with said content and dislike benchmarks. For what it's worth, I'm with you on hating benchmarks and the elitist culture that they reinforce, but they have at least one purpose and that is to show the potential dps of classes and builds under ideal scenarios and function as a baseline before considering how different classes and builds handle various mechanics and how that impacts their overall performance in more difficult group content. All this means benchmarks are, at least in part, important to whatever it is Anet is (or should be) doing to balance the classes and if you're going to participate in this discussion, I think you should at least acknowledge that they're meaningful in some way. Moreover, open world pve is a joke; anything can work out there. Please do not bring it up as a talking point.

A good point of comparison that I can make for EE on ele is Kalla's Fervor on renegade. Renegade has a lot more ways to generate fervor and all of its grandmasters interact with it in some significant way, on top of it also being baseline. I can see people making the argument that EE is baseline as well because it's granted by a minor trait, but I'd rather see that same trait reworked to instead improve EE with the rest of the traits being reworked to include more ways to gain stacks or make EE more powerful or otherwise effective, with the grandmasters being capstone traits which each give EE a different major modification that actually changes the catalyst's play style or role within a group. Is there a chance EE would become too powerful? Yes, which is why it and its new related traits would need to be tweaked going forward. Could Anet do what Anet almost always does and nerf ele for the worse in its entirety? Sure, but that's just normal Anet stuff and you can't get away from making that gamble every time we get a new balance update regardless - unless you do something crazy like quit gw2 and only rubberneck now and then to see how bad things are getting... Who would be foolish enough to do something like that?

Edited December 16, 2022 by Arkaile.5604
messed up the @ link lol

[SamCeption.6704]

On 4/2/2022 at 1:08 PM, Dadnir.5038 said:

I'll be the devil's advocate and say it:

The devs don't want your character to be a solo hero. The idea is most likely that you need your Tempest/ele aura share besty to help you keep up those stacks.

Now, I know it's a frustrating concept but, let's be realist, it's most likely the intent behind the fact that it's difficult to keep up.

 

This hasn't aged well

[Dadnir.5038]

9 hours ago, SamCeption.6704 said:

This hasn't aged well

Yep. The devs are bending more and more to the community's pleas.

[The Boz.2038]

On 12/16/2022 at 8:34 AM, Dadnir.5038 said:

Yep. The devs are bending more and more to the community's pleas.

The community's pleas of . . . 

* checks notes *

making the class be playable and the traits workable.

Edited January 9, 2023 by The Boz.2038

[ScottBroChill.3254]

On 3/30/2022 at 5:52 AM, ScottBroChill.3254 said:

That's what we in the biz like to call a trade-off! 

Edit: no one seems to understand what a trade off is and the intention of the traits was to provide varying degrees of risk/reward on stat bonuses that are essential to the spec's survival. The peeps I'm replying to seem to think they can have their cake and eat it too. No way, get real. Not my chair not my problem.