20k DPS 1 button Rotation Mechanist

[Jerus.4350]

16 hours ago, Sena.2761 said:

 

See that's so weird to me because as a Guardian kinda main I guess, I love Engies more.

Healmech and QB is everything I want in a comp and I trust myself as a QB a lot since I still have fantastic damage (which is great, as the fatal flaw of queuing as HB is having to rely upon PuG DPS.) and can patch up the few weaknesses Healmech have, mainly Stability, Reflects, CC, and grouping up adds. I literally queue for Healmechs for my fractals now since I consider the comp superior to the old one.

 

If anyone is out of a job it's Alacren, but at least now they're free to ditch RR, go full condi, and embrace being a Torment monster.

Very well said, and I totally agree, the hMech +qFB combo is amazing.  I'm glad you mentioned Stability though, because I see a lot of people claiming hMech has "perma stability" which is just silly because that's not how stability works (anymore).  1 CC blocked every 25s, that's what it really is, and if you time it right you can utilize Aegis as well for potentially 2 CCs dealt with every 25s.   I look at how well a guardian can trivialize fights like the Chaos Fractal boss and hMech just can't come anywhere close to that.  I'll keep my party alive on that fight no problem, but they're still going to have to dodge/deal with the daze.

[Sena.2761]

23 hours ago, Jerus.4350 said:

Very well said, and I totally agree, the hMech +qFB combo is amazing.  I'm glad you mentioned Stability though, because I see a lot of people claiming hMech has "perma stability" which is just silly because that's not how stability works (anymore).  1 CC blocked every 25s, that's what it really is, and if you time it right you can utilize Aegis as well for potentially 2 CCs dealt with every 25s.   I look at how well a guardian can trivialize fights like the Chaos Fractal boss and hMech just can't come anywhere close to that.  I'll keep my party alive on that fight no problem, but they're still going to have to dodge/deal with the daze.

I think it's mostly from people who maybe don't play Supports often and don't realize how important Stab is for helping people get through random stuff. Chaos also has harpies flinging knockdown balls and the pounders with AoE shockwaves. I bring it on Nightmare to prevent people from getting caught by the many knockdowns the boss has, the first triple champ one vet bosses in Uncat, all of Underground Facility especially against Ice Elemental, but swap it off vs Dredge suit, etc, just so much stuff really. I feel like I have SYG on my bar more often than Mantra of Flame or Signet of Wrath.

 

A packet of 2 stacks of Stab (sorta, if nothing eats the Aegis) won't cut it and there's a lot of fights like this. Hell, Stab even makes fights you don't think about go smoother like Siren's since it allows allies to stand in Crowe's shockwave, thereby lowering the complexity of that fight a few more steps.

 

I see the same line of thinking from a lot of fellow FB players who don't take SYG because they argue Book3 is enough. The DPS increase from multiple people not being knocked down or having to reposition after a dodge is going to outperform a flex DPS slot, not to mention saves you from having to crack open Book3 and lose Burn uptime.

 

The sad truth is that even if Druid/Tempest/whatever were to get Alac or Quickness today for example, I'd be really hard pressed to call them legitimate competition to HB and Healmech without stab. In strikes, it's less important but in Fracs it is very relevant.

Edited April 16, 2022 by Sena.2761

[Kulvar.1239]

15 hours ago, Sena.2761 said:

I think it's mostly from people who maybe don't play Supports often and don't realize how important Stab is for helping people get through random stuff. Chaos also has harpies flinging knockdown balls and the pounders with AoE shockwaves. I bring it on Nightmare to prevent people from getting caught by the many knockdowns the boss has, the first triple champ one vet bosses in Uncat, all of Underground Facility especially against Ice Elemental, but swap it off vs Dredge suit, etc, just so much stuff really. I feel like I have SYG on my bar more often than Mantra of Flame or Signet of Wrath.

 

A packet of 2 stacks of Stab (sorta, if nothing eats the Aegis) won't cut it and there's a lot of fights like this. Hell, Stab even makes fights you don't think about go smoother like Siren's since it allows allies to stand in Crowe's shockwave, thereby lowering the complexity of that fight a few more steps.

 

I see the same line of thinking from a lot of fellow FB players who don't take SYG because they argue Book3 is enough. The DPS increase from multiple people not being knocked down or having to reposition after a dodge is going to outperform a flex DPS slot, not to mention saves you from having to crack open Book3 and lose Burn uptime.

 

The sad truth is that even if Druid/Tempest/Cata/whatever were to get Alac or Quickness today for example, I'd be really hard pressed to call them legitimate competition to HB and Healmech without stab. In strikes, it's less important but in Fracs it is very relevant.

The way the game is, it can only handle at most 4 support elite specializations in the META.

A pair heal/quickness + dps/alacrity and a pair dps/quickness + heal/alacrity.

If any elite specialization is able to provide a boon as both healer and DPS, it eliminate competition. And if more than one elite specialization can do it, the META will slowly eliminate the ones with less side support (stability, cleanse, reflect, ...).
It may take 3 to 6 months, but it'll happen because players will slowly discriminate some supports into oblivion.
6 weeks into the expansion, I saw someone being reminded that renegade can provide alacrity.

The only way to have all the supports to coexist is full homogeneization so they all provide the same things (but that's boring).

[Puck.3697]

On 4/15/2022 at 11:54 AM, RabbitUp.8294 said:

It's not just mechanist. Renegade's selling point was its high dps for an alacrity provider. Now you have alacrity mirage that outdpses pure dps builds. Specter is pretty high, too. Renegade still has its amazing CC, though.

Alac mirage does 31k DPS on a golem benchmark? it's defintly not out dpsing pure DPS builds. 

Spectre DPS is bloated as the venom share ability counts as personal DPS on meter.s however pure DPS spectre does 34k DPS without allies 😂 it's defintly not out dpsing other builds. 

Renegade is still a 40k Condi DPS. Renegade is still very strong. The problem is machinist can role compress alacrity into a support build which just simply is really strong. 

Spectre likely will do more DPS in the average hands as it gets free DPS from existing with it's venom ability. It's like 6-8k DPS. 

 

[RabbitUp.8294]

On 4/16/2022 at 11:53 PM, Daddy.8125 said:

Alac mirage does 31k DPS on a golem benchmark? it's defintly not out dpsing pure DPS builds.

Renegade is still a 40k Condi DPS. Renegade is still very strong. The problem is machinist can role compress alacrity into a support build which just simply is really strong. 

Snowcrows has alacrity mirage at 37.3k

Why are you mentioning dps renegade? We are specifically talking about alacrity here. You are not doing 40k as alacrigade.

On 4/16/2022 at 11:53 PM, Daddy.8125 said:

Spectre DPS is bloated as the venom share ability counts as personal DPS on meter.s however pure DPS spectre does 34k DPS without allies 😂 it's defintly not out dpsing other builds. 

It IS personal dps. If we are talking about sharing alacrity, having allies is a given, like ???

[Puck.3697]

32 minutes ago, RabbitUp.8294 said:

Snowcrows has alacrity mirage at 37.3k

Why are you mentioning dps renegade? We are specifically talking about alacrity here. You are not doing 40k as alacrigade

Hmm didn't see this benchmark at all. Nvm found it.

Tbh though. As far as I'm aware that's not very repeatible on most bosses and it's realistically only a handful of bosses which confusion has this much power on. 

I was stating a stengrh to renegade saying it still did have some purpose. 

32 minutes ago, RabbitUp.8294 said:

IS personal dps. If we are talking about sharing alacrity, having allies is a given, like

Alacrity spectre does 29k DPS. Alacrity renegade is 30k on benchmarks 

So pointless talking on this, given you are a better alac build then spectre. 

https://snowcrows.com/builds/revenant/renegade/condition-alacrity-renegade

https://snowcrows.com/builds/thief/specter/condition-alacrity-spectre

Spectre DPS wise is the worst option realistically 29.4k with allies while alacrens 30.6k DPS with allies. 

https://snowcrows.com/builds/engineer/mechanist/condition-alacrity-mechanist

Machinist is 28k DPS.. 

Also that 37.5k DPS mirage build you talk on only supplies 55% uptime on alacrity.. 

Likely because they forgot to nerf it alike RR renegade which did similar numbers. Due to the fact it never made it as meta due to confusions niche use overall and the fact it only excelled at a handful of bosses to begin with.. 

But sure I wouldn't care if they nerfed this alike RR ren to equalise things on benchmarks 

And yes it is counted as personal DPS. However spectres capabilities to SOLO DPS is only 34k DPS. Which means it takes huge DPS losses when anyone loses uptime on a boss for any reason. 

Every time a Allie does a mechanic DPS loss everytime a ally has to move is a DPS loss. Any melee who get phased out of uptime is a DPS loss. 

So yes. On a static golem it's DPS numbers are alot higher then achievable in a actual raid because it depends on multiple situations to manage those numbers. 

Which is why benchmarks are a very irrelevant argument to begin with, they are extremely pointless to live performance in raids. 

But yeah that axe mirage build can provide 55% uptime on alacrity, providing it has permenant regeneration from a external source while doing 37.5k DPS in raid fights which confusion is strong in, maybe that does need nerfing alike RR Ren who got nerfed on the games entry.. 

But spectre and machinist both most defintly do not do more DPS then alacren lol, and I'd also make a argument that in spectres case atleast, DPS the only extra thing it would bring in that situation. With its resource limitations and only able to heal one ally with 0 healing power, it doesn't rly have anything else but alac + Condi damage. 

Mech can provide barrier / healing and stuff however that build requires more investment in support and would take more DPS loss 

Edited April 18, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Fwog.9387]

Mechanist having its own tank pet is irrelevant for dps. Bosses ignore it. Open world its nice but you don't balance for open world. 

[frareanselm.1925]

On 4/5/2022 at 6:03 PM, Valisha.8650 said:

There're tons of builds which can provide way over 20k dps on stationary boss in perfect circumstances.

My little conspiracy theory is that most of mechanist haters are just guardian mains, salty since their beloved i-can-do-everythingbrand isn't without competition anymore.

can you provide examples of other builds that can achieve 20k autoattacking?

[Kuma.1503]

3 hours ago, frareanselm.1925 said:

can you provide examples of other builds that can achieve 20k autoattacking?

Builds that can deal 20k dps or more with just auto attacks. Sometimes significantly more. 

 

Power Daredevil - Staff Autos. Optional: dodge onto the boss on CD for big dps increase. 

Condition Mirage -  Staff w/ 3 clones or axe w/ 3 clones. Can also provide alac by dodging. (Clones are personal tanks just like mech btw)

Power Herald - Sword Autos. Passively provides boons while doing so. 

Power Holosmith - Turn on forge and auto attack until overheat. Bomb kit auto until forge is back. 

Soulbeast - Dagger autos. Can also bring spirits and spotter. If you're willing to add one more button every 75 seconds, you can bring One Wolf Pack. 

 

 

 

Edited April 22, 2022 by Kuma.1503

[Fwog.9387]

Are we counting reaper shrouds auto. Not technically optimal but if you suck at playing reaper, you will deal more damage auto attacking instead. 

Also the highest damage mechanist build... isn't the mace build. Its the kits. I legit don't know why this threads still going. If you cannot beat em join em. If you don't wanna join em then why do you care what someone else is doing for fun. I fail to see how someone having an easier build matters at all. 

[taara.3217]

On 4/5/2022 at 7:03 PM, Valisha.8650 said:

My little conspiracy theory is that most of mechanist haters are just guardian mains, salty since their beloved i-can-do-everythingbrand isn't without competition anymore.

Guardian can't do everything. The same with Mechanist. Yes, it's just your theory )

[Valisha.8650]

17 hours ago, taara.3217 said:

Guardian can't do everything. The same with Mechanist. Yes, it's just your theory )

power dragonhunter, condi firebrand, condi quick firebrand, heal firebrand. It can do literally all the roles, minus handkite or some niche junk

[taara.3217]

2 hours ago, Valisha.8650 said:

power dragonhunter, condi firebrand, condi quick firebrand, heal firebrand

None of this is optimal choice for, say, Champs solo.

[Valisha.8650]

1 minute ago, taara.3217 said:

None of this is optimal choice for, say, Champs solo.

No one really cares about champs solo. ANet is "balancing" game around end game content, like fractals, raids, strikes, and so on. That's where the overwhelming majority of playerbase's focus is at, may we like it or not.

[taara.3217]

43 minutes ago, Valisha.8650 said:

No one really cares about champs solo.

I am care - it is helpful in the context of developing your combat skills and better understanding your Spec's capabilities. Moreover, it's just fun. And I know that I am not alone, and I know that among this players there are  highly respected members of GW2 community )

[Valisha.8650]

24 minutes ago, taara.3217 said:

I am care - it is helpful in the context of developing your combat skills and better understanding your Spec's capabilities. Moreover, it's just fun. And I know that I am not alone, and I know that among this players there are  highly respected members of GW2 community )

Doesn't change the fact that the game is simply not being balanced around that, and it doesn't matter for the devs in the large scheme of things. We are dealing with market expectations we have, not the one we wish we had.

[The Boz.2038]

On 4/30/2022 at 5:10 PM, taara.3217 said:

None of this is optimal choice for, say, Champs solo.

This comment is both irrelevant and wrong.

[Kozumi.5816]

On 4/5/2022 at 3:10 AM, Kuma.1503 said:

Doing 20k dps with auto attacks is nothing new in this game. 

Doing it with a free uber robot tank is, though.

[Rosiep.9128]

On 5/6/2022 at 11:55 PM, Kozumi.5816 said:

Doing it with a free uber robot tank is, though.

If you'd ever played the class you'd know that the robot is good at tanking random trash that you're not attacking but it's not going to hold aggro vs a champion or elite unless it's somehow doing more damage than everyone else attacking it, at which point  you should be worried about your own damage. 

[Kozumi.5816]

4 hours ago, Rosiep.9128 said:

If you'd ever played the class you'd know that the robot is good at tanking random trash that you're not attacking but it's not going to hold aggro vs a champion or elite unless it's somehow doing more damage than everyone else attacking it, at which point  you should be worried about your own damage. 

Tanks dungeon and strike bosses for me, as well as everything OW perfectly fine.

Nice assuming I don't play it! Gotta defend your op god mode spec!

[Sugar Min.5834]

It was common to hear players boasting Renegades as the top 3-5 dpsers during meta runs. And no one complains about that. The Mech did a good dps rotation (one button? oh really?) on a non moving Golem with a dozen condis on it and people panic...

Edited May 8, 2022 by Mil.3562

[Fwog.9387]

On 5/8/2022 at 3:48 PM, Kozumi.5816 said:

Tanks dungeon and strike bosses for me, as well as everything OW perfectly fine.

Nice assuming I don't play it! Gotta defend your op god mode spec!

What dungeon bosses? I will admit i have not tested every dungeon, I have only solo'd CM but even if i just sent the golem in and didn't attack the boss would be engaged by the golem and then immediately b-line straight for the engineer and ignore the golem entirely. 

In strikes, even if you could tank a boss with a golem, there isn't anything particularly game breaking about it since strikes have mechanics, the bosses auto attacks are the least of your concern. With that said, i would love to hear what bosses you are currently talking about instead of just a blank description... THE BOSSES. 

If you don't have an example, i am just going to assume you don't know what you are talking about. Being able to tank a champion wouldn't be anything new either. Ranger has existed for years.