Once again returning- confused about metabattle condition virtuoso build as I dont see conditions in the Virtuoso kit?

[Ombras.2853]

6 hours ago, Mik.3401 said:

Are you sure chrono is selfish? Everyone knows it can provide utility hence it is more versatile = better. Of course virtuoso can hit a few k higher benchmark than chrono not relying on slow, but in reality barely anyone can hit those benchmarks exactly.

The power virutoso is the forgiveness it gives for new players facing new encounters. And this is a valid perk, but it is the only truly selfish Mesmer espec as a whole.

PChrono is as selfish as Virtuoso.

I’m not asking for much, just to stop spreading lies.

I get that a lot of people in this forum are only interested in the PvP aspect of the game (and I support the point of discussing specs traits based on it, since it’s clearly easier to balance things for PvE). But several of them don’t have a clue about PvE at all, and keep saying things which don’t exist at all.

PChrono is still a very respectable choice for power damage in end game content. But: a) it does less damage than Virtuoso, b) requires more support from the team than Virtuoso (slow uptime), c) it has literally the same utilities you provide with Virtuoso, with the only upside of having a better cc (but Virtuoso has a very decent cc himself).

And the fact people keep talking about PVirtuoso is indicative of the fact they, once again, don’t have a clue about the PvE meta, since CVirtuoso is the actual top dog.

[Mik.3401]

2 hours ago, Ombras.2853 said:

PChrono is as selfish as Virtuoso.

I’m not asking for much, just to stop spreading lies.

I get that a lot of people in this forum are only interested in the PvP aspect of the game (and I support the point of discussing specs traits based on it, since it’s clearly easier to balance things for PvE). But several of them don’t have a clue about PvE at all, and keep saying things which don’t exist at all.

PChrono is still a very respectable choice for power damage in end game content. But: a) it does less damage than Virtuoso, b) requires more support from the team than Virtuoso (slow uptime), c) it has literally the same utilities you provide with Virtuoso, with the only upside of having a better cc (but Virtuoso has a very decent cc himself).

And the fact people keep talking about PVirtuoso is indicative of the fact they, once again, don’t have a clue about the PvE meta, since CVirtuoso is the actual top dog.

Still, are you sure it is 100% selfish? This is what I was asking, yet you strawman it into instigating I’m saying power chrono is a support class.

Thank you for mentioning the cc from chrono is better than in the case of virtuoso that’s yet another advantage.

Again, I’m not sure who refers to pvirtuoso - what is referenced is the highest benchmark because benchmark is the only thing this espec provides.

[Ombras.2853]

2 hours ago, Mik.3401 said:

Still, are you sure it is 100% selfish? This is what I was asking, yet you strawman it into instigating I’m saying power chrono is a support class.

Thank you for mentioning the cc from chrono is better than in the case of virtuoso that’s yet another advantage.

Again, I’m not sure who refers to pvirtuoso - what is referenced is the highest benchmark because benchmark is the only thing this espec provides.

I think you mixed up some other comment, which wasn’t mine.

That said… yes? It’s clearly a super selfish dps class.

What is questionable about this comment?

Nothing.

Have a look at Snowcrows’ builds and tell me.

That’s literally it.

[Mik.3401]

1 hour ago, Ombras.2853 said:

I think you mixed up some other comment, which wasn’t mine.

That said… yes? It’s clearly a super selfish dps class.

What is questionable about this comment?

Nothing.

Have a look at Snowcrows’ builds and tell me.

That’s literally it.

You quoted only my post hence I responded. It is not questionable whether it is super selfish, just whether it is necessarily always 100%. Thank you for aiming to school me on snowcrows builds l, but I know the site and builds very well. 

That’s literally it.

[Ombras.2853]

24 minutes ago, Mik.3401 said:

You quoted only my post hence I responded. It is not questionable whether it is super selfish, just whether it is necessarily always 100%. Thank you for aiming to school me on snowcrows builds l, but I know the site and builds very well. 

That’s literally it.

Congratz for not addresssing the point once again.

Is PChrono a selfish build?

Yes it is.

Did you say it is not?

Yes you did.

These are your words:

”Chronomancer does high dps as well and can provide some utility on top of it, so it’s better than virtuoso.”

Are you going to pretend you meant to say something different or what?

Stop twisting words like a kid, and let’s have a decent discussion.

If you want to prove your point, maybe start addressing it.

[Obtena.7952]

On 4/15/2022 at 10:28 AM, Urphen.2857 said:

Hope you are right but Mesmer was in the past the best dps in raids and it was harder to play + needed high slow uptime and still anet nerfed it, I'm feared they do it again since now it isn't only in Raid a strong dps.

Except those nerfs weren't because of the things that make Condi Virt good so ... 
 

People have to pay attention to the reasons Anet state in the patch notes as to why they make changes. 

If anything, I think this build is something new in GW2 because you have to bend over backwards with weird, non-intuitive stat choices to make it work and even weirder ones if you want to branch out with it. 

Edited April 17, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Urphen.2857]

2 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Except those nerfs weren't because of the things that make Condi Virt good so ... 
 

People have to pay attention to the reasons Anet state in the patch notes as to why they make changes. 

If anything, I think this build is something new in GW2 because you have to bend over backwards with weird, non-intuitive stat choices to make it work and even weirder ones if you want to branch out with it. 

Ah yes sure, iirc they said they nerf chrono because it was overperforming and overpresented in every game mode but the reality was you saw it at this time only in raids and only because you needed to stack them since it was the best way to hold slow uptime, so they nerfed chrono because of a problem anet created themselves with claims that weren't true.

You can defend anet but yes it's the same what makes virtu now good it is top dps and when speedclear guilds starts to stack them it will get nefed pretty soon its 1:1 the same thing because the reason before wasn't even true 🤷‍♂️

[Obtena.7952]

2 hours ago, Urphen.2857 said:

Ah yes sure, iirc they said they nerf chrono because it was overperforming and overpresented in every game mode but the reality was you saw it at this time only in raids and only because you needed to stack them since it was the best way to hold slow uptime, so they nerfed chrono because of a problem anet created themselves with claims that weren't true.

You can defend anet but yes it's the same what makes virtu now good it is top dps and when speedclear guilds starts to stack them it will get nefed pretty soon its 1:1 the same thing because the reason before wasn't even true 🤷‍♂️

Well, believe what you like if you really want to convince yourselves Anet is just going to nerf everything. I can't help that. I just know that being Top DPS isn't a reason to nerf stuff ... something is always top DPS. 

Edited April 17, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Urphen.2857]

9 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Well, believe what you like if you really want to convince yourselves Anet is just going to nerf everything. I can't help that. I just know that being Top DPS isn't a reason to nerf stuff ... something is always top DPS. 

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/95447-game-update-notes-may-11-2021/?tab=comments#comment-1364791

 

Chronomancer has been steeply overperforming in a damage role in all content, leading to an environment in which the best way to tackle almost any challenge is to throw more Chronomancers at it

 

nope sry you are the delusional anet defender, so im saying you now the same, belive what you want.

Chrono was nerfed because of dps and stacking with the false claim it does it in all content and as I said reality was that at this time Chrono was only good in Raids and only if you had enough slow uptime what leaded to stack Chronos 🤦‍♂️

 

 

[Obtena.7952]

17 minutes ago, Urphen.2857 said:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/95447-game-update-notes-may-11-2021/?tab=comments#comment-1364791

 

Chronomancer has been steeply overperforming in a damage role in all content, leading to an environment in which the best way to tackle almost any challenge is to throw more Chronomancers at it

 

nope sry you are the delusional anet defender, so im saying you now the same, belive what you want.

Chrono was nerfed because of dps and stacking with the false claim it does it in all content and as I said reality was that at this time Chrono was only good in Raids and only if you had enough slow uptime what leaded to stack Chronos 🤦‍♂️

 

 

I don't get your point ... I'm not disputing why Anet says they make changes. Nerfs to things because of 'overperformance' are not the same reason as being TOP DPS. Like I said ... something is always Top DPS ... but that doesn't mean they are overperforming. 

Edited April 17, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Senqu.8054]

19 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Well, believe what you like if you really want to convince yourselves Anet is just going to nerf everything. I can't help that. I just know that being Top DPS isn't a reason to nerf stuff ... something is always top DPS. 

 

Mesmer has lost enough to expect this behavior from ANet again. The last patch ”balanced” yet another skill that was once key component of a build into uselessness. Stating otherwise is either naive or an pure insult to every player who spent money on this game but left because everything they played is deleted.

[Urphen.2857]

17 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I don't get your point ... I'm not disputing why Anet says they make changes. Nerfs to things because of 'overperformance' are not the same reason as being TOP DPS. Like I said ... something is always Top DPS ... but that doesn't mean they are overperforming. 

yes they nerfed it because it has done 2k more dps than other Specs, try what you want we all know that you like to defend anet, you can try to twist words so that it sounds better for you but at the end it's always the same chrono got nerfed because of dps and it wasn't overperforming because the only way to obtain this numbers was 1) high slow uptime 2) a harder rotation.

Edited April 17, 2022 by Urphen.2857

[Obtena.7952]

49 minutes ago, Urphen.2857 said:

yes they nerfed it because it has done 2k more dps than other Specs,

OH yeah? Where did they say that? because that's not what the thing you quoted said. I'm not twisting anything ... the reason Anet gave for the Chrono nerf is quite clear actually and it says NOTHING about being 2K more than other Specs. What it ACTUALLY implies that Anet has DPS targets for specs ... and Chrono was above theirs. Nothing more to take from that quote.

but if you want to argue there is some '2K DPS above other specs' thing that proves you are right about your interpretation about what they said ... I'll wait. Until then, other than some weird conspiracy theories, there isn't a reason to think Anet is just making up things to change the game. They just don't have to do that, so why would they?

 

Edited April 17, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Mell.4873]

Guys this is another useless argument, We all know Virtuoso is top DPS and the other guy isn't well informed.

Chrono is incredibly selfish when played for its 39k DPS and honestly is pretty hard to use effectively since it requires a clean rotation to even get that damage(Golem vs Real). 

The reality is for the all the problems with Virtuoso it is by far the easier DPS which by extension means the rotation is simple and easy to achieve in any setting. Which I bet the Devs did because this is what Mesmer is lacking (I mean WvW zerg Virtuoso is still bad but it will get there I hope)

Edited April 17, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Urphen.2857]

16 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

OH yeah? Where did they say that? because that's not what the thing you quoted said. I'm not twisting anything ... the reason Anet gave for the Chrono nerf is quite clear actually and it says NOTHING about being 2K more than other Specs. What it ACTUALLY implies that Anet has DPS targets for specs ... and Chrono was above theirs. Nothing more to take from that quote.

but if you want to argue there is some '2K DPS above other specs' thing that proves you are right about your interpretation about what they said ... I'll wait. 

 

It's what it does at this time it was 2k more than other Specs Chrono was on 40-41k and other on 39-40k it's nothing anet has to say and the next thing in what you are wrong is you claim of dps target because at the same time they buffed others Specs doing the same dps we have done before without the need of something like slow and now I'll will wait for your next cheap excuse.

[Obtena.7952]

1 minute ago, Urphen.2857 said:

It's what it does at this time it was 2k more than other Specs Chrono was on 40-41k and other on 39-40k it's nothing anet has to say and the next thing in what you are wrong is you claim of dps target because at the same time they buffed others Specs doing the same dps we have done before without the need of something like slow and now I'll will wait for your next cheap excuse.

OK that's nice, but that's not what Anet said in that thing you quoted. That's what YOU interpreted they meant. See, that's the problem here. You interpreted it wrong, then you don't understand the change and think there is something suspect about the change.

The fact is that Anet has targets and Chrono performance was outside of the target Anet had for it. That's all that happened there. Nothing "2K DPS" or nothing about other specs like you interpreted ... just a simple adjustment to bring Chrono back down to where Anet wanted it's performance. 

Edited April 17, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Urphen.2857]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

OK that's nice, but that's not what Anet in that thing you quoted. That's what YOU interpreted they meant. See, that's the problem here. You interpreted it wrong, then you don't understand the change and think there is something nefarious about the change.

The fact is that Anet has targets and Chronos was outside of theirs. That's all that happened there. 

Again they nerfed us and buffed others to do the same as we did before so explain it please because what you are saying makes no sense

[Obtena.7952]

3 minutes ago, Urphen.2857 said:

Again they nerfed us and buffed others to do the same as we did before so explain it please because what you are saying makes no sense

Well, I already did ... Chrono was outside the performance target Anet had for it. They fixed that. It has nothing to do with 'Top DPS' or 2K DPS differences between other specs.

What's the barrier to you understanding this? Anything else I can help you with?

Edited April 17, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Urphen.2857]

33 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Well, I already did ... Chrono was outside the performance target Anet had for it. They fixed that. Anything else?

Yeah you edited your post and you are going the easy way because you have no arguments, it's naiv to think anet did this because of a performance target but you can't come with something else so you make exactly what you always do coming with thniks like the almighty anet has this and this in mind so it must be this case, have you a source for any of your claims? Are you working for Anet or how you know what they are thinking? 

See the difference between us? I could prove all my points either with links or with things that really happened while from you only things with no substance are coming.

Want another prove for my point? 

Pre EoD the class that got stacked for Speedclears was Scourge and now guess who got nerfed? 

You can blah blah as much you want but it's clear anet balance around golem numbers and Speedclear so the spec that get stacked the most will get hitet and that's why we have to expect a virtu nerf if Speedclear guilds starts to stack this spec so my point and all things I said stays -> it's the same reason -> chrono nerf based on dps and not on a imaginary performance target -> virtu will probably expect getting nerfed at the moment it get stacked 

Edited April 17, 2022 by Urphen.2857

[Salt Mode.3780]

@Urphen.2857I just choose to ignore that person always defending anet for now reason lol as if defending bad choices or decisions are going to help the game. Always with the ANET's Vision bullcrap, and I've said it many times they dont even know what their vision is considering there has been soo many different employees coming in and out of the team. How many months into the expansion or years for WvW to be the cornerstone of GW2. 

Based on the balance patch notes I dare say no where close, hopium for those who think the summer patch is gonna make a difference. We need more frequent patches not one large patch per couple years.

FYI: that person already stated they don't play mesmer enough or main the class to begin with. I have linked his exact comments from other forum post from other profession threads hes been trolling. Needless to say he had no comments besides the generic ones.

Edited April 18, 2022 by Salt Mode.3780

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, Urphen.2857 said:

 you have no arguments

Don't need to argue because it's pretty clear what Anet said in that quote. No interpretation necessary. Again, not sure where this '2K DPS' or 'other specs' or 'top DPS' stuff comes from you are talking about ... it's certainly not in that quote. What IS in that quote is the implication that Anet has a target for Chrono and was overperforming and it was too high, so they made a change. Nothing else. 

Edited April 18, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Urphen.2857]

5 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Don't need to argue because it's pretty clear what Anet said in that quote. No interpretation necessary. Again, not sure where this '2K DPS' or 'other specs' or 'top DPS' stuff comes from you are talking about ... it's certainly not in that quote. What IS in that quote is the implication that Anet has a target for Chrono and was overperforming and it was too high, so they made a change. Nothing else. 

So what you are saying is still you can't prove any of your points 🙂

You are a lost case think what you want if you feel better, can't help you 🤷‍♂️

[Urphen.2857]

6 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

@Urphen.2857I just choose to ignore that person always defending anet for now reason lol as if defending bad choices or decisions are going to help the game. Always with the ANET's Vision bullcrap, and I've said it many times they dont even know what their vision is considering there has been soo many different employees coming in and out of the team. How many months into the expansion or years for WvW to be the cornerstone of GW2. 

Based on the balance patch notes I dare say no where close, hopium for those who think the summer patch is gonna make a difference. We need more frequent patches not one large patch per couple years.

FYI: that person already stated they don't play mesmer enough or main the class to begin with. I have linked his exact comments from other forum post from other profession threads hes been trolling. Needless to say he had no comments besides the generic ones.

Yeah there is no hope so I'm going to ignore him again, the ignorance that some people have here baffles me every time again

[Salt Mode.3780]

If anything Virtuoso might get the staff ele treatment. Staff ele was top DPS for a very long time, but their rotation has bonkers i know cuz i played staff ele especially with weavers introduced. They got knocked down hard and they were a selfish dps that provided nothing to the group. This will apply to Virtuoso the same consider how much easier the rotation is. 

Edited April 18, 2022 by Salt Mode.3780

[Obtena.7952]

If anything, it's likely Virtuoso was intended to be a high DPS condi build in the first place and it's DPS is intentional, based on fact that Anet buffed it last patch to do MORE condi DPS. 

Edited April 18, 2022 by Obtena.7952