Trying to find a strike group is sapping all the fun of this game

[The Boz.2038]

1 minute ago, Luci.7018 said:

Avoid joining  wrong group that they don't belong . It click and the algorithm will try to match you players that have some experience (PvP)

Yep. Guess it is exactly that point.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

9 hours ago, BumboJumbo.1308 said:

Admittedly, I am too scared to join other peoples groups unless it says "training" or "all welcome". I find it daunting that I have to play a specific way that has no objective measure. For instance if someone is looking for damage per second (dps), what does that exactly mean? That I do 10k dps? 15k? 20k? 30k? Literally no one has a consistant concrete answer from the next person.

Took me 10 seconds to look up what DPS means among abbreviations on the GW2 Wiki. DPS is simply a person whose job is mainly to deal damage, hence why it's called "DPS". 

9 hours ago, BumboJumbo.1308 said:

Or if someone says they want a specific role: what if I'm not giving enough of that boon? Am I doing good healing? Will I be kicked? Now I feel like I'm on a rope that I have to balance on. Focusing more on my role than the mechanics of the encounter.

That depends on the group, if the group wants experienced people they will expect those people to do their job properly, in that case yes, you'd be kicked for not doing your job as the role you joined. If the squad does not expect people to be on the top of their game not being perfect in your role is fine. It's also recommended to simply play DPS on encounters and such where you are not yet familiar with every mechanic to make it easier.

9 hours ago, BumboJumbo.1308 said:

Or, I'm maybe wrong, but anet doesn't seem to do a good job in introducing basic mechanics in the story mode, whom the majority of people play. I think this because you generally don't have to care about the mechanic. Story instanced content needs a better way to simulate the player-to-player instanced pve content. For example,  encouraging people in story mode strikes to spread out or to move away from the group if you have fire/Icey borders on screen, etc.

Making the mechanics in the story fights harder would just lead to complaining that it's too hard. 

9 hours ago, BumboJumbo.1308 said:

Anet could also be at fault at the fact that literally anyone, as long as they are level 80, can go from open world then straight to raids. I think anet needs to find a way that locks the absolute hardest content behind doing the ramp up to the hardest content.

Locking Raids behind doing other content first would yet again lead to complaints that people are forced to do other content before they can do whichever content they want. I would personally be pissed if I had to do X amount of Strikes or Fractals before I could Raid on my alt.

9 hours ago, BumboJumbo.1308 said:

Overall, I would expect people to allow anyone to join normal strikes, whereas for challange mode anything, high tier fractals I think you can gate keep as much as you want because it requires some level of experience of mechanics to progress the content.

Also, I send this question off to everyone here

What world would you rather be in:

A world where the majority (casuals) of people play normal strikes, so they get better at the game?
Or a world where the minority of people play normal strikes, so they can get a quick kill?

Yes, everyone should be allowed to join any group and they ARE in fact allowed to join, but said group's commander is also allowed to decide whether said person can stay or not. 
This is very important, if I make a squad I get to decide who I accept. For example if I look for Quickness I want to get a person who can deal damage and provide Quickness, not a simple DPS. 

[Luci.7018]

10 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Yep. Guess it is exactly that point.

Can you clarify ?

What would be the backfire?

[The Boz.2038]

1 minute ago, Luci.7018 said:

Can you clarify ?

What would be the backfire?

Backfire?
Mate, you quoted me, pretended to answer the question, then repeated what you said pages ago; an irrelevant detail that nobody asked about, while reiterating your "automatic sort" thing that just fundamentally can't work with this style of game. Exactly as I predicted.

[Luci.7018]

10 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Backfire?
Mate, you quoted me, pretended to answer the question, then repeated what you said pages ago; an irrelevant detail that nobody asked about, while reiterating your "automatic sort" thing that just fundamentally can't work with this style of game. Exactly as I predicted.

How it cannot work ?

What roles are a must for normal Strikes  ?

Can you clarify ?

 

Edited April 20, 2022 by Luci.7018

[Vidit.7108]

I came to see if OP has reposted at all and found that this topic has completely spiraled away from what OP's issue was. This is also turning into bickering that will get this thread locked and help no one.

It is actually a problem that LFG isn't very inviting to new players. I know a lot of experienced players here in the instanced group content sub-forum have opinions about that. They don't matter in this case, I hear all the time from newbie players getting into group content is hard. That's their perspective. It doesn't matter if I think they have a real problem preventing them from learning. The issue still is that the environment set up to get people into group content doesn't seem inviting to them.

The auto-LFG idea isn't a good one but I don't need to fight with them about it. It's more constructive to try and explain to people what to do to play with people of their skill level with the tools that exist now. It's also not very helpful to be arguing about a hypothetical solution, that 1. won't work, and 2. is stemming from an actual need of newbie players to have their own space to gain experience and learn the game.

We should listen to that when they say they have an issue with how it works instead of just telling them how they're wrong to want something different.

[BumboJumbo.1308]

3 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Took me 10 seconds to look up what DPS means among abbreviations on the GW2 Wiki. DPS is simply a person whose job is mainly to deal damage, hence why it's called "DPS". 

That depends on the group, if the group wants experienced people they will expect those people to do their job properly, in that case yes, you'd be kicked for not doing your job as the role you joined. If the squad does not expect people to be on the top of their game not being perfect in your role is fine. It's also recommended to simply play DPS on encounters and such where you are not yet familiar with every mechanic to make it easier.

Making the mechanics in the story fights harder would just lead to complaining that it's too hard. 

Locking Raids behind doing other content first would yet again lead to complaints that people are forced to do other content before they can do whichever content they want. I would personally be pissed if I had to do X amount of Strikes or Fractals before I could Raid on my alt.

Yes, everyone should be allowed to join any group and they ARE in fact allowed to join, but said group's commander is also allowed to decide whether said person can stay or not. 
This is very important, if I make a squad I get to decide who I accept. For example if I look for Quickness I want to get a person who can deal damage and provide Quickness, not a simple DPS. 

If  you believe that entry level content, like strikes, that gets people engaged in basic mechanics can be gate kept in the lfg then for the love of God never complain about peoples skill level and never complain about lack of hard content.

[Luci.7018]

10 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

It is not my job to clarify your own idea.

You can  oppose  them althought?

You cannot see , that something in the "Instance Community"  is not working and rather than iterate and waste money , we should use  something that creates toxicity 100% ...but is something that we must worry after the instance population is increased ?

For some toxicity is the "gatekeeping"

While other thinks that "not pulling your weight" is toxicity .

 

Both cases can be resolved by separating those 2 .

And the system can hide those 2 and don't allow them ever to interact and create this type of behavior  .

Either with a tree/flower (that acts as GW1 district or Tier Fractal) , and each sprout/flower offer different things (20% more gold , baseline(nothing) , 50% gold if you clear it under 4 min(manual LFG))

And in off-hours , people from the high sproup can see the LFG listing of the lower ones with different color/icon .

Or a more less costly idea  , such as a auto-LFG + the current  manual  LFG , for experienced players

Edited April 20, 2022 by Luci.7018

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

1 hour ago, BumboJumbo.1308 said:

If  you believe that entry level content, like strikes, that gets people engaged in basic mechanics can be gate kept in the lfg then for the love of God never complain about peoples skill level and never complain about lack of hard content.

Yes, I believe that players are allowed to decide who they want to play with. I for one prefer to play with people who are not competing with healers in terms of DPS for example. There are groups for people who are experienced, and there are groups for those who aren't. Saying "Strikes are entry level" is not a reason to join experienced groups with no knowledge. 
I feel like I need to link this thread from 2 years ago. 

1 hour ago, Luci.7018 said:

Both cases can be resolved by separating those 2 .

And the system can hide those 2 and don't allow them ever to interact and create this type of behavior  .

Either with a tree/flower (that acts as GW1 district or Tier Fractal) , and each sprout/flower offer different things (20% more gold , baseline(nothing) , 50% gold if you clear it under 4 min(manual LFG))

And in off-hours , people from the high sproup can see the LFG listing of the lower ones with different color/icon .

Or a more less costly idea  , such as a auto-LFG + the current  manual  LFG , for experienced players

What would you base the separation on and how exactly splitting the LFG in half would solve any problem? People complain about barely any squads, splitting LFG in half would lead to less squads. Sure, new players won't see squads with LI/KP requirements, but then most likely won't really meet any experienced players, so... what's the point?

[Mell.4873]

1 hour ago, Vidit.7108 said:

I came to see if OP has reposted at all and found that this topic has completely spiraled away from what OP's issue was. This is also turning into bickering that will get this thread locked and help no one.

It is actually a problem that LFG isn't very inviting to new players. I know a lot of experienced players here in the instanced group content sub-forum have opinions about that. They don't matter in this case, I hear all the time from newbie players getting into group content is hard. That's their perspective. It doesn't matter if I think they have a real problem preventing them from learning. The issue still is that the environment set up to get people into group content doesn't seem inviting to them.

The auto-LFG idea isn't a good one but I don't need to fight with them about it. It's more constructive to try and explain to people what to do to play with people of their skill level with the tools that exist now. It's also not very helpful to be arguing about a hypothetical solution, that 1. won't work, and 2. is stemming from an actual need of newbie players to have their own space to gain experience and learn the game.

We should listen to that when they say they have an issue with how it works instead of just telling them how they're wrong to want something different.

I think we should all agree here that more comprehensive LFG would be the best alternative. 

A proper search function with tags like all welcome or training runs would help new players alot more by having them search for content at their level rather than joining a random strike or raid group with acronyms like HB and Alac (I mean I know what they mean).

Edited April 20, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Linken.6345]

2 hours ago, Luci.7018 said:

Avoid joining  wrong group that they don't belong . It click and the algorithm will try to match you players that have some experience (PvP) . You don't need to have Alacr/Quickness

You know how you avoid joining the wrong group?

Simply dont click on it if you dont understand what it is saying.

 

29 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

I think we should all agree here that more comprehensive LFG would be the best alternative. 

A proper search function with tags like all welcome or training runs would help new players alot more by having them search for content at their level rather than joining a random strike or raid group with acronyms like HB and Alac (I mean I know what they mean).

Yes because typing ""new"" or ""welcome"" in the lfg search bar is really really hard.

[The Boz.2038]

50 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

I think we should all agree here that more comprehensive LFG would be the best alternative. 

Again, define?

You do know you can search LFGs? And filter them, too?

[BumboJumbo.1308]

59 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Yes, I believe that players are allowed to decide who they want to play with. I for one prefer to play with people who are not competing with healers in terms of DPS for example. There are groups for people who are experienced, and there are groups for those who aren't. Saying "Strikes are entry level" is not a reason to join experienced groups with no knowledge. 
I feel like I need to link this thread from 2 years ago. 

What would you base the separation on and how exactly splitting the LFG in half would solve any problem? People complain about barely any squads, splitting LFG in half would lead to less squads. Sure, new players won't see squads with LI/KP requirements, but then most likely won't really meet any experienced players, so... what's the point?

If you don't mind people putting an lfg with an expectation advertisement for normal strikes then you can't complain about low skilled players and a lack of hard content.

Edited April 20, 2022 by BumboJumbo.1308
Wording

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

1 minute ago, BumboJumbo.1308 said:

If you don't mind people putting an lfg with an expectation advertisement for normal strikes then don't complain about low skilled players and a lack of hard content.

I'm not complaining about low skilled players or lack of hard content, I don't know what makes you think that. Using a screenshot posted on Reddit a few days ago as an example maybe?
 

[BumboJumbo.1308]

2 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

I'm not complaining about low skilled players or lack of hard content, I don't know what makes you think that. Using a screenshot posted on Reddit a few days ago as an example maybe?
 

Maybe not you, but if you ever do complain about low skilled players and lack of hard content or other people complain about it then it doesn't make sense.

If you fully admit that you don't care about low skilled players or that hard content is scarce, then it seems like a matter of different view points. You do you.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

9 minutes ago, BumboJumbo.1308 said:

If you fully admit that you don't care about low skilled players or that hard content is scarce, then it seems like a matter of different view points. You do you.

Are you sure you are replying to the correct person?
I say Thing A. You respond to it like I said Thing B.

I mention how players are allowed to decide who they want to play with and thus are allowed to set requirements to their squads. You respond stating that I complain about low skilled people and lack of hard content. I ask what makes you think I said such things and you respond with something about admitting I don't care about low skilled people? What?

Edited April 20, 2022 by IAmNotMatthew.1058

[Linken.6345]

12 minutes ago, BumboJumbo.1308 said:

Maybe not you, but if you ever do complain about low skilled players and lack of hard content or other people complain about it then it doesn't make sense.

If you fully admit that you don't care about low skilled players or that hard content is scarce, then it seems like a matter of different view points. You do you.

Noone is stoping you yes you you to open a lfg new to strikes/fractal/dungeon all welcome lets do this.

And when it fills you do the content, it might take an hour or 50 but you can do it.

What you can not do is be new and join someone elses squad that say "exp/no newbies welcome/250li/kp lf what ever"" and expect to join no questions asked.

Edit

And since you can do that you have no reason to complain if there gets more difficult content into the game right?

Since low skilled players want to learn and not just get carried right?

Edited April 20, 2022 by Linken.6345

[BumboJumbo.1308]

3 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Are you sure you are replying to the correct person?
I say Thing A. You respond to it like I said Thing B.

I mention how players are allowed to decide who they want to play with and thus are allowed to set requirements to their squads. You respond stating that I complain about low skilled people and lack of hard content. I ask what makes you think I said such things and you respond with something about admitting I don't care about low skilled people? What?

Sorry, let me restate my intention:

I am saying that new players go into new strikes expecting to be able to play the game. By adding expectations in an lfg you detour people off from playing strikes. 

If new players feel they can't join strikes because a squad has expectations then you are essentially saying that you don't care about getting new players learning the game. New players can't experience basic mechanics because of this.

If someone sees an lfg where it's filled with expectations then where do new players turn to?

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

1 minute ago, BumboJumbo.1308 said:

Sorry, let me restate my intention:

I am saying that new players go into new strikes expecting to be able to play the game. By adding expectations in an lfg you detour people off from playing strikes. 

There are currently 3 squads in Strike LFG, 2 of them have no KP/LI requirements, in the last one hour of me checking LFG a few times I counted 8 squads not asking for KP/LI and 4 that had KP/LI requirements. They could join the squads that don't have those requirements maybe.

6 minutes ago, BumboJumbo.1308 said:

If new players feel they can't join strikes because a squad has expectations then you are essentially saying that you don't care about getting new players learning the game. New players can't experience basic mechanics because of this.

So... me saying that people have the right to decide who they want to play with means I don't care about new players? Okay. That's one kind of logic I haven't seen before.

This may be a suprise, but in instanced content it kinda matters what you bring, so, you need people covering roles otherwise your chance for success won't be so high. A squad's commander gets to decide what roles they want AND if they are only looking for experienced people or not. 

If a new player feels like they can't join Squad A, because they don't have what the squad needs, role, experience or both then they should look for a squad that they meet the criteria of. Saying that people should be allowed to join Strikes, becauses they are "entry level" just shows you don't care about the time of people in that squad. 

When I join a squad that has specific requirements on role and experience I don't really care about new players, because well.. they would be thrown out by the Commander anyways if they don't meet the requirements. I care about new players when I decide to do a pug training run or I put my Guild practice squad on LFG. 

12 minutes ago, BumboJumbo.1308 said:

If someone sees an lfg where it's filled with expectations then where do new players turn to?

Strike/Raid LFG is not made up of only squads that have LI/KP requirements, so, your argument is pointless.

[Luci.7018]

13 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

 

What would you base the separation on and how exactly splitting the LFG in half would solve any problem? People complain about barely any squads, splitting LFG in half would lead to less squads. Sure, new players won't see squads with LI/KP requirements, but then most likely won't really meet any experienced players, so... what's the point?

If we have  seen the yesterday requirements in the CM (500 Li) , we can assume that it's already human nature , for people to separate themselves . Which is a not a bad thing , where we try to "weed out the bad crop".

How fractals work ? Aren't "some" people lured by higher rewards and seek to join your party ?

Wouldn't at some point , people will get fed up with auto-LFG-normal-Mode-40min instances and try the big boy league-manual LFG - CM for 20 min matches -double reward ?

 

It's not about people liking each other . It's about creating extra LW with scalable dificulty (not mani story related) , rather an extra OW map event .

The ones that can try to fix it like the "Bard Guild" that makes funny commendary while in Raids , or Malluk with his where his hair look lie fresh mint ,or even Teapot if he starts rolling random internet spin with random spec that will use on the Raids ..

Something funny with a background event like Raids .

Edited April 20, 2022 by Luci.7018

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

7 minutes ago, Luci.7018 said:

If we have  seen the yesterday requirements in the CM (500 Li) , we can assume that it's already human nature , for people to separate themselves . Which is a not a bad thing , where we try to "weed out the bad crop".

So a single LFG requirement asking for 500LI means Aether CM is 500LI all the time? I've seen 4 without any KP requirement and 1 with 100LI.

9 minutes ago, Luci.7018 said:

How fractals work ? Aren't "some" people lured by higher rewards and seek to join your party ?

What is your point with this? That people who want better rewards will progress through Fractals and join better groups? Like right now? Also, doing CM Fractals is pretty much worse reward wise than normal.

10 minutes ago, Luci.7018 said:

Wouldn't at some point , people will get fed up with auto-LFG-normal-Mode-40min instances and try the big boy league in CM for 20 min matches ?

People would be fed up with their Strikes taking too long, but thanks to your auto-LFG separating new players from experienced ones they'll be stuck.

The big question is what would you base the separation on? We asked you so many times, yet we got no answer. 

[Luci.7018]

10 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

So a single LFG requirement asking for 500LI means Aether CM is 500LI all the time? I've seen 4 without any KP requirement and 1 with 100LI.

What is your point with this? That people who want better rewards will progress through Fractals and join better groups? Like right now? Also, doing CM Fractals is pretty much worse reward wise than normal.

People would be fed up with their Strikes taking too long, but thanks to your auto-LFG separating new players from experienced ones they'll be stuck.

The big question is what would you base the separation on? We asked you so many times, yet we got no answer. 

 

 

Based on the OP scenarios where he joined and kicked 2 times and now he most likely won't join them again .

And when he came in the forums , he was met with "you shouldn't have joined experience groups" (how he should know it) .

One click easy -button , no need to scroll thought a huge list o non-yes-requiremens lists , or guess if they mean that they want your class

Whoever wants to play optional would use the manual LFG .

 

No more threads  about  "gatekeeping" and 'i don't nubs that cannot do more 3k dps".

The population will not bicker => do more content => we get more content . Otherwise let's admit that instance content doesn't work in GW2 and let's focus in OW

 

Edited April 20, 2022 by Luci.7018

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

Just now, Luci.7018 said:

Based on the OP scenarios where he joined and kicked 2 times and now he most likely won't join them again .

And when he came in the forums , he was met with "you shouldn't have joined experience groups" (how he should know it) .

Obviosly.. you join a group looking for experienced people while not being experienced it shouldn't be a suprise you get kicked for not being experienced.

I'm still interested in how your system would sort people. Also, if people could just not use that system and join groups normally... what would be the point? It's the current system, we already have that in Strikes.
Strikes already have a similiar feature, haven't heard of it? Yeah, it's that successful. You join a public instance Strike and if someone else joins one you'll end up together. Not very successful.

 

[Luci.7018]

10 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Obviosly.. you join a group looking for experienced people while not being experienced it shouldn't be a suprise you get kicked for not being experienced.

I'm still interested in how your system would sort people. Also, if people could just not use that system and join groups normally... what would be the point? It's the current system, we already have that in Strikes.
Strikes already have a similiar feature, haven't heard of it? Yeah, it's that successful. You join a public instance Strike and if someone else joins one you'll end up together. Not very successful.

 

But he shouldn't get in there and ask ?

And in end , joined and was met with silence and get kicked (twice) ?

Then he came to the forums , he wentin a crazy loop , where people saying that he shouldn't join them ?

 

All can be easily with a button .

PoF strikes failed too , but they where rebranded

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

1 minute ago, Luci.7018 said:

But he shouldn't get in there and ask ?

And in end , joined and was met with silence and get kicked (twice) ?

Then he came to the forums , he wentin a crazy loop , where people saying that he shouldn't join them ?

 

All can be easily with a button .

PoF strikes failed too , but they where rebranded

Okay, let's go with an example, there is group asking for an experienced FIrebrand as a healer, you see that group, you dont know what a Firebrand is, how healing is done in the game and you haven't heard about the content this group wants to do. What is the logical step here?

1. Look up what those are and how this content needs to be done
2. Join the group regardless, get kicked, repeat this with a different group and finish this with coming to complain on the forums

Obviously, the first option is the way to go, if you don't know what a group is asking for and/or doing you don't join that group, and even if you join the group ask what they mean using those terms and such.
OP didn't say anything about being met with silence and getting kicked, but, if such thing happens it's because when you join a squad you mention the role you intend to fill and if the squad is also asking for KP/LI you ping that with your role.

People are correct in telling OP that he should have not joined a squad that he doesn't meet the requirements of. A squad's commander decides the requirements, if someone not meeting those requirements joins then the commander is allowed to kick that individual from the squad.

A group finder wouldn't really solve this issue, you queue up and get thrown in with randoms. The commander can still kick people, so it won't solve the KP/LI "issue". 
If the system is only used by inexperienced people then you throw 10 people together with varying understanding of the encounter and they'll most likely end up failing and getting frustrated.
Squads ask for specific roles for a reason, there'd be a need for so many different options to queue as, simply because there are many different roles.