Griffon mount coming to WoW

[Ledi.9742]

if i had not seen that the footage is from WOW, i genuinely would have thought that this is from some gw2 fangame.

also the fact that you cannot copyright protect ideas does not make it any less scummy for the WOW devs to plagiarize from gw2, and brag about how they came up with this brand new innovative mount. just because its legal doesnt mean that its ok to do.

[Zalavaaris.5329]

On 4/19/2022 at 6:24 PM, AliamRationem.5172 said:

There seems to be some confusion regarding exactly what is being "stolen" here.  To be clear, WoW had mounts long before GW2 did.  What they're specifically adding in their next expansion are movement physics to make their mounts move more realistically and have some actual gameplay to them, where before they were simply cosmetic movement speed boosts. 

When you look at the video of this gameplay right away you see a WoW dragon mount use the exact same animation the skyscale uses, folding its wings and quickly spiraling forward.   Next they show a dragon mount diving from a cliff and then leveling out into a high-speed glide, exactly like a griffon.  They also show one lifting off from the ground, looking conspicuously similar to a skyscale.

I'm not saying there's any legal issue here.  It's just very conspicuous how every single thing they showed looks exactly like the skyscale and griffon from GW2.  Listening to the WoW devs talk about all the work that went into developing this is kinda funny because it almost looks like they just played GW2 and said "Alright, boys.  How can we make this happen in WoW?"

My question is, thematically, how else would they do a dive animation? We could say gw2 stole the animation from Batman too because that’s how he dives. It just makes sense to put your wings to your side and dive down. The same goes for a barrel roll. It’s not a new concept and that cork screw roll can be seen in other games as well. It’s obviously the same animation, I won’t argue that because it 100% is. I’m just saying I can’t think of a way they could do it any differently and still make it look smooth.

[Freya.9075]

1 hour ago, Zalavaaris.5329 said:

My question is, thematically, how else would they do a dive animation? We could say gw2 stole the animation from Batman too because that’s how he dives. It just makes sense to put your wings to your side and dive down. The same goes for a barrel roll. It’s not a new concept and that cork screw roll can be seen in other games as well. It’s obviously the same animation, I won’t argue that because it 100% is. I’m just saying I can’t think of a way they could do it any differently and still make it look smooth.

Look at nature for inspiration. If you google birds diving in water, you’ll see many ways birds dive. They could change the shape and length of the wings and still be able to make it smooth and very different.
 

The fact that they claim to have made it as well is why ppl react. It would be like an artist drawing a dragon. And another artist tracing their lines and draw and claim it’s theirs. There are many ways to draw a dragon but they chose to copy. Just like wow did with anet. 

[Zalavaaris.5329]

10 hours ago, Freya.9075 said:

Look at nature for inspiration. If you google birds diving in water, you’ll see many ways birds dive. They could change the shape and length of the wings and still be able to make it smooth and very different.
 

The fact that they claim to have made it as well is why ppl react. It would be like an artist drawing a dragon. And another artist tracing their lines and draw and claim it’s theirs. There are many ways to draw a dragon but they chose to copy. Just like wow did with anet. 

Birds do that… they put their wings to their side and dive down. And what do you mean they claim to have made it? Nature made it,  they just animated it in the game. A winged creature putting their wings to their side to dive down isn’t a creative imagination of how winged creatures act that anet dreamed up. Yes wow did the same thing. It’ll be fun to play!

[Freya.9075]

45 minutes ago, Zalavaaris.5329 said:

Birds do that… they put their wings to their side and dive down. And what do you mean they claim to have made it? Nature made it,  they just animated it in the game. A winged creature putting their wings to their side to dive down isn’t a creative imagination of how winged creatures act that anet dreamed up. Yes wow did the same thing. It’ll be fun to play!

Inspiration from birds does not mean copy it. And the birds in nature dive in various ways not just one way. Depending on the shape and length of their wings. 
 

and the claim got covered before in this thread. With a link to their announcement video where they said this: "We wanted to come up with a movement system..." and "...it really helps to lend that feeling of physics as you move through the air in ways that you haven't before."   Keyword: come up with. Then proceeds to have the exact same animation as gw2 has. I’m sure it will be fun to play. As gw2 has the best Mount system in mmos and ofc other games wants a part of that success. 

[Ashen.2907]

16 hours ago, Mutisija.5017 said:

if i had not seen that the footage is from WOW, i genuinely would have thought that this is from some gw2 fangame.

also the fact that you cannot copyright protect ideas does not make it any less scummy for the WOW devs to plagiarize from gw2, and brag about how they came up with this brand new innovative mount. just because its legal doesnt mean that its ok to do.

Griffons as mounts predates GW2, predates ANet's existence, does that make ANet devs, "scummy?"

[Chaba.5410]

1 hour ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Griffons as mounts predates GW2, predates ANet's existence, does that make ANet devs, "scummy?"

Yet another person missing the nuance between concept and artwork... *sigh*

[Zalavaaris.5329]

16 hours ago, Freya.9075 said:

Inspiration from birds does not mean copy it. And the birds in nature dive in various ways not just one way. Depending on the shape and length of their wings. 
 

and the claim got covered before in this thread. With a link to their announcement video where they said this: "We wanted to come up with a movement system..." and "...it really helps to lend that feeling of physics as you move through the air in ways that you haven't before."   Keyword: come up with. Then proceeds to have the exact same animation as gw2 has. I’m sure it will be fun to play. As gw2 has the best Mount system in mmos and ofc other games wants a part of that success. 

You didn’t finish the quote and I’m assuming on purpose. The full quote is “it really helps lend to that feeling of physics as you move through the air in ways that you haven’t before in world of Warcraft” this isn’t lie. 

Edited April 24, 2022 by Zalavaaris.5329

[Freya.9075]

1 hour ago, Zalavaaris.5329 said:

You didn’t finish the quote and I’m assuming on purpose. The full quote is “it really helps lend to that feeling of physics as you move through the air in ways that you haven’t before in world of Warcraft” this isn’t lie. 

I copied the post before. And even that doesn’t change the fact that they added the exact same animations. Ofc it changes the way wow mounts works as they have no physics added to them before at all. I didn’t say they lie about that. Claiming they made it is the false narrative here. 

[phandaria.4891]

On 4/23/2022 at 10:57 AM, Zalavaaris.5329 said:

My question is, thematically, how else would they do a dive animation? We could say gw2 stole the animation from Batman too because that’s how he dives. It just makes sense to put your wings to your side and dive down. The same goes for a barrel roll. It’s not a new concept and that cork screw roll can be seen in other games as well. It’s obviously the same animation, I won’t argue that because it 100% is. I’m just saying I can’t think of a way they could do it any differently and still make it look smooth.

Plagiarism always comes in the whole combination instead of just a single aspect. In this case, aside from animation, it also stole concept, mechanics, physics, etc.

For example, there is no need for a speed boost to be initiated from a dive.  The dev can otherwise  use energy mechanic that depletes as you move faster. The dive mechanic is a gameplay requirement for players to look for a high ground before speeding up. For a game that already have unlimited flying, they really could have done different mechanics to implement a speed boost.

The issue is that everything is a one-to-one copy from all aspects of Skyscale and Griffon.

FYI, all of those animations also renders all previous in-game mounts completely unusable with the new mechanics. I mean, really? Just delete all years of hard work collecting skins for a copy paste? They can't make mechanics and animations that also take into account previous mounts?

Edited April 24, 2022 by phandaria.4891

[Fueki.4753]

22 minutes ago, phandaria.4891 said:

FYI, all of those animations also renders all previous in-game mounts completely unusable with the new mechanics. I mean, really? Just delete all years of hard work collecting skins for a copy paste? They can't make mechanics and animations that also take into account previous mounts?

Dragonride is supposed to be a completely separate system from mounts. We don't even know if players will be able to use the Dragonride feature outside of the Dragon Isles. This means, mount collections wouldn't be invalidated.

And while traversing long distances with no steep change in elevation, mounts allegedly are quicker than riding the dragons.

Edited April 24, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[phandaria.4891]

1 minute ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Dragonride is supposed to be a completely separate system from mounts. I remember them even saying so. This means, mount collections wouldn't be invalidated.

And while traversing long distances with no steep change in elevation, mounts allegedly are quicker than riding the dragons.

If I wasn't clear, what I meant is that Blizz have so many different option implementing new system and they went with the route in which old skins are incompatible with new system. Really no creativity at all.

And it's been reported that old skins are only available as land mount in the new areas.

[Zera.9435]

Who cares? ArenaNet does not have sole rights to griffons or their likeness.

[Ashen.2907]

22 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

Yet another person missing the nuance between concept and artwork... *sigh*

Yet another person missing the fact that the artwork has not been copied but that concepts are....and that those concepts predated gw2.

[Scrysis.6279]

8 hours ago, Freya.9075 said:

I copied the post before. And even that doesn’t change the fact that they added the exact same animations. Ofc it changes the way wow mounts works as they have no physics added to them before at all. I didn’t say they lie about that. Claiming they made it is the false narrative here. 

And Larion Studios predated Arena Net with their flying physics with their game, "Divine Divinity 2."  Try it out.  When you turn into a dragon and fly around, you get the same distortions when diving, etc.  Oh, and you'll have to add Wildcard to that list -- they incorporated a fan-made gryphon mount creature into their game that ALSO has the SAME speed distortions.  Although, I'm not sure on the timing; I'm pretty sure the inclusion predates the Path of Fire expansion.  If you're going to charge WoW of plagarism, you'll have to include GW2 in that list as well.

Let me put it another way. . .  Anet's resources for a legal team are |  | this big.  Blizzard's legal resources for a legal team are |  _______________________ | this big.  For those who don't get the visual comparison here: Blizzard's resources VASTLY outweigh Anet's.  They're more than capable of consulting with their legal department and figuring out what is going to get them in legal trouble.

55 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Yet another person missing the fact that the artwork has not been copied but that concepts are....and that those concepts predated gw2.

Yup.  There are only so many ways of making an increase of speed feel visceral to an outside viewer who can't feel inertia.  Manga and anime have been using things like speed lines for DECADES.  And that doesn't take into account how many games, videos, and other visual media all blur areas just out of central focus for things like increased movement.  I played at least two games prior to Path of Fire that had the same diving mechanic as GW2 gryphon.  I thought nothing of it.  And you can't copyright barrel rolls.  If you wanted to try, I'm pretty sure nature, or at least the Wright Brothers started that first.  Or contrails.  Can't copyright those either.  Or physics.  Because momentum exists for everybody.  Hell, I read a book that predates MMOs that literally describes the way that GW2 gryphons work using characters. . . . WITH GRYPHON CHARACTERS IN THE BOOK.  Hell, it wouldn't surprise me if the books were the inspiration for it.

 

The thing that gets me most about this thread is that instead of applauding and hoping that WoW's player base enjoys something new and different that is being added to a VERY old game (so much spaghetti code!), instead you have a subset of players screaming bloody murder and grabbing pitchforks as if Arenanet invented the concept of flight itself.  That barrel roll you see in the clip for Wow?  Yeah, that's not the same thing as the Skyscale.  Wow doesn't have an evasion system to avoid taking damage the same way GW2 does, so it is literally impossible to be the same thing.  From the video, it looks like A) it's a fun graphic, or B) it's a mechanic to increase momentum or energy.

 

tl;dr:  I honestly thought that the GW2 community was better and more generous than this.  Turns out I was wrong.

[Freya.9075]

28 minutes ago, Scrysis.6279 said:

And Larion Studios predated Arena Net with their flying physics with their game, "Divine Divinity 2."  Try it out.  When you turn into a dragon and fly around, you get the same distortions when diving, etc.  Oh, and you'll have to add Wildcard to that list -- they incorporated a fan-made gryphon mount creature into their game that ALSO has the SAME speed distortions.  Although, I'm not sure on the timing; I'm pretty sure the inclusion predates the Path of Fire expansion.  If you're going to charge WoW of plagarism, you'll have to include GW2 in that list as well.

Let me put it another way. . .  Anet's resources for a legal team are |  | this big.  Blizzard's legal resources for a legal team are |  _______________________ | this big.  For those who don't get the visual comparison here: Blizzard's resources VASTLY outweigh Anet's.  They're more than capable of consulting with their legal department and figuring out what is going to get them in legal trouble.

Yup.  There are only so many ways of making an increase of speed feel visceral to an outside viewer who can't feel inertia.  Manga and anime have been using things like speed lines for DECADES.  And that doesn't take into account how many games, videos, and other visual media all blur areas just out of central focus for things like increased movement.  I played at least two games prior to Path of Fire that had the same diving mechanic as GW2 gryphon.  I thought nothing of it.  And you can't copyright barrel rolls.  If you wanted to try, I'm pretty sure nature, or at least the Wright Brothers started that first.  Or contrails.  Can't copyright those either.  Or physics.  Because momentum exists for everybody.  Hell, I read a book that predates MMOs that literally describes the way that GW2 gryphons work using characters. . . . WITH GRYPHON CHARACTERS IN THE BOOK.  Hell, it wouldn't surprise me if the books were the inspiration for it.

 

The thing that gets me most about this thread is that instead of applauding and hoping that WoW's player base enjoys something new and different that is being added to a VERY old game (so much spaghetti code!), instead you have a subset of players screaming bloody murder and grabbing pitchforks as if Arenanet invented the concept of flight itself.  That barrel roll you see in the clip for Wow?  Yeah, that's not the same thing as the Skyscale.  Wow doesn't have an evasion system to avoid taking damage the same way GW2 does, so it is literally impossible to be the same thing.  From the video, it looks like A) it's a fun graphic, or B) it's a mechanic to increase momentum or energy.

 

tl;dr:  I honestly thought that the GW2 community was better and more generous than this.  Turns out I was wrong.

Regarding pof release and divinity 2 release they both were in September 2017 with a few days difference. Unless any of those games had knowledge of eachothers games how did they plagiarize? 
 

and you shouldn’t assume ppl who react to the copying doesn’t hope wow players have a good time playing. I for certainly do. World of Warcraft do need it since they have has their downfall a while now. This has nothing to do with it at all

Edited April 24, 2022 by Freya.9075

[Chaba.5410]

5 hours ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Yet another person missing the fact that the artwork has not been copied but that concepts are....and that those concepts predated gw2.

It's disingenuous to respond as if your point was that the artwork/animation wasn't copied when you wrote nothing to address that point myself and others brought up earlier. It's still a fact that so many random people who saw the animation and consider it similar enough to be a copy have commented on it. That's usually considered evidence of brand confusion and the reason why lawyers exist.