Why are Ele builds stronk tier lately?

[Kozumi.5816]

On 4/23/2022 at 3:53 PM, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Eles in pvp are starting to feel like fighting an expensive celestial wvw Ele, some nigh invulnerable battering ram.

Yes, Catalyst is broken and makes everything unfun about fighting Ele 10x worse.

[MARTIGIN.2136]

This new meta Catalyst is the most broken of all the new specs that has been left UNCHECKED thus far. I watched a player literally 1v3, while trash talking about how good he was because his spec is busted. 3 reflecting auras that can be chained, summon AOE's that block attacks and blind or immob, Earth Shield, Catalyst Earth Shield too what is this?, Invuln, MORE Immob, CC, Blind, 7k with 1 skill. Why are we okay with this? Is it purely to let the new specs dominate all previous specs?

Catalyst needs to be dealt with it's just too much for too little. What can counter this? Ranged - Nope, got that covered with anti projectile, and all the reflects in the game. Melee? - Nope, got that covered you can't even get within melee range before taking 25,000 in power damage on the highest toughness stats in the game. Condi? -Nope, can clear conditions like no other. Boon rip? -Maybe, but nothing can completely shut down the constant boon generation (We're talking 25 might here along with a constant Flow of Stability, Swiftness and Fury.

 

ANET DEAL WITH THIS PLEASE AND THANK YOU.

Edited April 26, 2022 by MARTIGIN.2136

[Stallic.2397]

3 hours ago, MARTIGIN.2136 said:

This new meta Catalyst is the most broken of all the new specs that has been left UNCHECKED thus far. I watched a player literally 1v3, while trash talking about how good he was because his spec is busted. 3 reflecting auras that can be chained, summon AOE's that block attacks and blind or immob, Earth Shield, Catalyst Earth Shield too what is this?, Invuln, MORE Immob, CC, Blind, 7k with 1 skill. Why are we okay with this? Is it purely to let the new specs dominate all previous specs?

Catalyst needs to be dealt with it's just too much for too little. What can counter this? Ranged - Nope, got that covered with anti projectile, and all the reflects in the game. Melee? - Nope, got that covered you can't even get within melee range before taking 25,000 in power damage on the highest toughness stats in the game. Condi? -Nope, can clear conditions like no other. Boon rip? -Maybe, but nothing can completely shut down the constant boon generation (We're talking 25 might here along with a constant Flow of Stability, Swiftness and Fury.

 

ANET DEAL WITH THIS PLEASE AND THANK YOU.

 

Condi can deal with this build. It doesn't "clear conditions like no other". Spamming auras is still taxing even for a Fire Catalyst. If a catalyst is using Earth Shield and Earth Augment as you say, then the only utility they have left is a Stun Break, which means all their condi removal is based off their weapon skills. 

 

Dagger is the best condi clear for Catalyst given Auras. But even then, condi spamming with cover condi's will exhaust a Catalyst. There are traits and armor picks which could help Passively remove condi but if those are taken, then damage is just decreased even more so. You'll be fighting a tank rather than a threat, which just means its a slow battle of attrition.

 

Condi Guardian, Necro, or Condi Trapper Ranger should do the trick. I've even seen some odd Condi Engi's that surprise me at times.  

[JunkJunk.8971]

Condi virtuoso takes them down pretty well 

[SPESHAL.9106]

10 hours ago, MARTIGIN.2136 said:

This new meta Catalyst is the most broken of all the new specs that has been left UNCHECKED thus far. I watched a player literally 1v3, while trash talking about how good he was because his spec is busted. 3 reflecting auras that can be chained, summon AOE's that block attacks and blind or immob, Earth Shield, Catalyst Earth Shield too what is this?, Invuln, MORE Immob, CC, Blind, 7k with 1 skill. Why are we okay with this? Is it purely to let the new specs dominate all previous specs?

Catalyst needs to be dealt with it's just too much for too little. What can counter this? Ranged - Nope, got that covered with anti projectile, and all the reflects in the game. Melee? - Nope, got that covered you can't even get within melee range before taking 25,000 in power damage on the highest toughness stats in the game. Condi? -Nope, can clear conditions like no other. Boon rip? -Maybe, but nothing can completely shut down the constant boon generation (We're talking 25 might here along with a constant Flow of Stability, Swiftness and Fury.

 

ANET DEAL WITH THIS PLEASE AND THANK YOU.

The good news is that when something is this busted, it usually gets fixed much faster.  It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the issue and there's no spin that's viable for not addressing it.

[Poelala.2830]

On 4/24/2022 at 3:12 PM, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

That's what I'm talking about right there.

They have enough options now to tweak themselves to be nigh invulnerable for whatever situation they are in. I notice it the most in the ffa when I duel actual good Eles. They can take 10s to swap a few things around, come back down, and essentially be invulnerable vs. whatever you're running. And of course they can do this same thing before matches begin. It's getting to be a bit too much.

As a Ranger player, I notice that Catalyst specifically has waaay too much anti-projectile. While dueling Poelala, he was running a build that very seriously was pushing out some inordinate amount of anti-projectile like 80% - 90% uptime. It's not just enough anti-projectile to where it can be used wisely, no it's so much anti-projectile to where it invalidates the use of Longbow or Shortbow completely, leaving a Ranger with only 1 weapon set to work with. There isn't even a reason to use your projectile based weapon sets against these builds like this they have so much anti-projectile. It has to be dealt with by pure melee, channels, or ground target AoEs. Worst part yet, is that anyone standing with the Ele also benefits that large amount of anti-projectile. Wise players use the Ele as moving LOS pretty much. More players are learning how to really abuse this lately and it is quite exploitive. And anyone who wants to respond to this post can INB4 "uR jUsT a MaD rAnGeR MaIn" because it isn't just Rangers that are designed mostly around projectile use. Other specs that rely around projectile use: Dragonhunters, Engineers, PD Thieves, Deadeyes, Specter, Harbinger, most Mesmer clone strikes, and various other attacks/effects skewed around on all classes. Eles lately are nearly immune to all of this. It's getting to be too much.

Then when you do go full melee, let's say you try to 1v1 it with a Spellbreaker. They have too much stab and still too much passive CC "Shock Aura". It's getting to be too difficult to land any CC for an opener to deal damage. Then when something like the Spellbreaker messes up ONCE, somehow these newer Ele builds despite being S tier sustain, still are dishing out heavily punishing DPS that can rip into someone and gut out 50% of a health bar in a single attack. Worst part here is that it is not slow. They are able to stay on top of and chase most classes for kills, outside of the classes that have direct ground target disengage or a lot of stealth.

 

Stating it again: Fighting a good Ele lately feels like fighting an adamantine boulder where the only counter-play is to just avoid it.

People in the forums and in-game seem to be hard focused on complaining about Mechanist still, but truthfully good Ele players are still harder to get off a node than any Mechanist and twice as dangerous in terms of their threat range to actually be able to kill you.

I think a lot of this has to do with ranger as a class being countered by elementalist as a class. Regardless of this, a lot of your grievances seem to be based on your preferred longbow playstyle which hasn’t been the best ranger playstyle until very recently. Even now, untamed is strong into catalyst though it still more like likely loses. Untamed can one shot the glass build I use with maul and tail swipe. I think you were seriously counter-played, though. There are playstyle options that may produce more favorable results for you.

[Downstate.4697]

6 hours ago, JunkJunk.8971 said:

Condi virtuoso takes them down pretty well 

I just want to second this by saying mesmer in general is a good match up vs ele. Power block mirage in particular can shut down a super tanky build that sits in earth. 

In fact you will find most hybrid builds are a good match up vs ele. The condi variant of spectre and even harbinger if played around reflect.

This goes onto my main point. The overall issue is how dominant power is in this game mode and not really ele itself.  Hybrid builds are incredibely overlooked and should be seriously considered at higher levels of play to counter bunkers.

 

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

2 hours ago, Poelala.2830 said:

I think a lot of this has to do with ranger as a class being countered by elementalist as a class. Regardless of this, a lot of your grievances seem to be based on your preferred longbow playstyle which hasn’t been the best ranger playstyle until very recently. Even now, untamed is strong into catalyst though it still more like likely loses. Untamed can one shot the glass build I use with maul and tail swipe. I think you were seriously counter-played, though. There are playstyle options that may produce more favorable results for you.

Yup we already discussed that in-game.

Untamed has a shot to kill it due to the large damage modifiers from marks/untamed for 2 big melee strikes.

Anything else that relies on ranged weapon set can't deal with Catalyst unless the Cata is seriously being outplayed.

[Vancho.8750]

1 hour ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Yup we already discussed that in-game.

Untamed has a shot to kill it due to the large damage modifiers from marks/untamed for 2 big melee strikes.

Anything else that relies on ranged weapon set can't deal with Catalyst unless the Cata is seriously being outplayed.

Anything that relies on projectile ranged attacks, lazer types ranged attacks are not stopped by magnetic aura, ranged AoE also, Static aura kittens you though. 

[Wyrdern.4092]

I'm still not a fan of Aura mechanics being pushed so hard in another ele spec (we already have tempest for that). Auras are a balancing nightmare since they are a buff that relies on you getting hit, and if you nerf the on hit effect they just become a proxy to trigger other traits.

[Kuma.1503]

Catalyst should have been a combo sec not an aura spec. Change my mind.