Open World Solo: Celestial Catalyst (Video and Build)

[Dante.1508]

5 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Hizen's build overcaps burn duration because the rune he uses grants a high amount of burn duration.  I assume he does this because if he takes a different rune then he'll be under cap and it's likely that with full celestial a significant portion of his damage output comes from burning even on a power-forward hybrid.  You don't see any benefit over 100% increased duration, so this is the only reason to do this.

Hizen uses fire/arcane and takes power damage boosting traits, so he deals relatively more power damage and deals more damage overall than this build (44 second Balthazar kill time vs. 57 seconds for the variant shown in this thread).  As a tradeoff, this build gains some additional tankiness, which you can see in play with the impressive facetanking of sporelings on the mushroom queen (these can pop for over 5k on some builds and he's just eating them two or three at a time).

I love Hizen builds and he always bags out Anets balance devs haha.

[SeTect.5918]

9 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Hizen's build overcaps burn duration because the rune he uses grants a high amount of burn duration.  I assume he does this because if he takes a different rune then he'll be under cap and it's likely that with full celestial a significant portion of his damage output comes from burning even on a power-forward hybrid.  You don't see any benefit over 100% increased duration, so this is the only reason to do this.

Hizen uses fire/arcane and takes power damage boosting traits, so he deals relatively more power damage and deals more damage overall than this build (44 second Balthazar kill time vs. 57 seconds for the variant shown in this thread).  As a tradeoff, this build gains some additional tankiness, which you can see in play with the impressive facetanking of sporelings on the mushroom queen (these can pop for over 5k on some builds and he's just eating them two or three at a time).

Pretty much this. 

I also dont think it goes over the top since i tested it. Tested it with Signet of fire active effect and in all cases it was 20 seconds duration of burning (so 100% burn duration). 

And yes my build is more tanky and his is more dps. 

Tho the 44 and 57 benchmarks were also a bit inaccurate because i didnt use food and utility in my Video and he did. And i had not all infusions in that Video. I had 3 condi infusions only. 

So i think i can pretty much get close to that number if using food+utility and all infusions. Tho still, yes, his build is more dmg and mine is more tanky. 

Edited May 3, 2022 by SeTect.5918

[AliamRationem.5172]

15 minutes ago, SeTect.5918 said:

Pretty much this. 

I also dont think it goes over the top since i tested it. Tested it with Signet of fire active effect and in all cases it was 20 seconds duration of burning (so 100% burn duration). 

And yes my build is more tanky and his is more dps. 

Tho the 44 and 57 benchmarks were also a bit inaccurate because i didnt use food and utility in my Video and he did. And i had not all infusions in that Video. I had 3 condi infusions only. 

So i think i can pretty much get close to that number if using food+utility and all infusions. Tho still, yes, his build is more dmg and mine is more tanky. 

Entirely possible.  Generally speaking, celestial works much better for a condition build than it does for a power build.  So it may be that Hizen's strategy isn't really producing much additional damage for what he's giving up.  I'd still expect his build to produce better damage, but it might not be worth taking arcane for the power damage boost when the boons it provides are mostly already covered at baseline with catalyst.  Fire/earth with a focus on condition damage would probably produce the highest damage output for a celestial build, if I had to guess, but I'm not very experienced with catalyst.

[SeTect.5918]

30 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Fire/earth with a focus on condition damage would probably produce the highest damage output for a celestial build, if I had to guess, but I'm not very experienced with catalyst.

Yes it would but you would also give up a lot of sustain.

Arcane traitline is the only source of regeneration on Catalyst. (regen on attuning to water)
And regen works good with Celestial.
Also helps to keep up fury and protection properly. And all other boons tbh (the 180 concentration trait).

Arcane is the tool for everything on ele and thats why it is so good on celestial.
I would only use Fire+Earth on Trailblazer builds tbh.

Or if all boons are perma even without it, but thats not the case with Catalyst.

Edited May 3, 2022 by SeTect.5918

[SeTect.5918]

For those who are interested:

I tested it without boons on the raid golem in lions arch training area on small hitbox (outside of hitbox obv) with ice elemental (to keep it realistic) and it was around 12k dps (without food and without full infusions).

The condi dps was around 7k per second. Means:
around 58.33% of the damage comes from condi.

And this makes the rethink the whole build because the condi damage doesnt seem to be that much after all.

Condi stays the overall saver variant because some enemies have higher toughness which reduces power dmg.

However I think it doesnt really matter if lean the build towards power or condi, because if you make it leaning towards power, it decreases condi dmg by a giant amount (because you would have to swap out balthazar runes) so I think it turns out to be around the same.

So my conclusion:

It dont think it matters if you make it leaning towards power or condi.

if you want to lean it more towards power, you can follow the points I mentioned in my original post already😄

Edit:
So I tested it now with the power variant and its pretty much the same dps.
So it really doesnt matter.
But I want to say that the condi variant is better for most bosses because as said above: Some bosses are having higher toughness than other bosses (which reduces power dps) and condi dps is unaffected by that.
A good example for that are the Mordrem_Husks that you can find in the Silverwaste.

Edited May 6, 2022 by SeTect.5918

[Gibson.4036]

I'm enjoying Cele Catalyst a lot, but at the moment, new to it, I feel like I'm very much playing the piano. I get a little tunnel focused on getting the hammer 3s, jade spheres, and blasting that I lose track of using any of the other skills!

Definitely need to get some muscle memory, and figure out a better solution for binding attunement swaps and jade sphere.

[hudisgreat.8492]

I'm in the same boat as Gibson. Thank you SeTect for your very helpful thread and your detailed responses to everyone's comments.

[Gibson.4036]

On 4/29/2022 at 2:15 PM, SeTect.5918 said:

Hey,

to be honest there isnt really a real rotation because you have lots of situational skills on your hammer.
Example: earth 4 gives barrier on block and water 4 heals your by a big amount so if you need hp at that time, you are going to swap to earth or water for the barrier/heal.

However if everything goes right and u dont need any hp, the rotation is somewhat:

Jump with jackal in the fight for barrier.
Start with full or half energy in earth attunement.
Hammer 3 -> Signet of Fire -> signet of Earth -> hammer 2 -> During the casting of hammer 2, place earth sphere (combo field) -> hammer 5 (combo finisher).
Swap to Air.
Hammer 3 -> place air sphere (combo field) and instantly use hammer 5 (combo finisher) -> hammer 2.
Swap to Fire.
Hammer 3 -> place fire sphere (combo field) -> hammer 2, hammer 5 (Combo finisher, doesnt matter if hammer 2 or 5 first) -> hammer 4.
Swap to Water.
Hammer 3 -> Summon Ice Elemental -> hammer 2, hammer 5 (Combo finisher (tho you dont have a combo field at this part) again doesnt matter which one you use first) -> hammer 4 (combo finisher) (if you need 4k hp).
Auto attack until you have like 29-30 energy.
Swap to Earth.
place earth sphere (combo field).
hammer 3 (grand finale (combo finisher)).
Hammer 3 -> ....(same as above)

My videos can be different from the rotation because I was in need of hp or somewhat like that.
Signet or fire and signet of earth you can spam instantly after CD tbh.
Small important note for Signet of Earth:
There has to be a 3 second time gate between Earth hammer 5 and Signet of Earth (what I ironically failed on balth solo).
This is because of the trait Strength_of_Stone which causes bleeding on immob but with an ICD of 3 seconds.
Its a small dps loss if you cast them both at the same time but its not that important.

Other stuff you need to know:
If you know there is an invulnerability phase incoming for the boss, keep in mind that you will lose your orbs because of a bug (I hope) that orbs currently have.
This can kill your rota basically.

If you are in need of hp, dont be afraid to summon your ice elemental (so swapping to water) instead of the listed rotation. Its ofc a dps loss but in open world solo its sustain over damage.

Remember to read the skills to know what are your combo finishers and always use your combo finishers in your sphere.
combos give auras and auras give elemental empowerment. So combos are a source of both sustain and damage.

There can be cooldown issues sometimes and if the skills are still on a too big cooldown, just skip the skill and swap attunement.
If its just 1-3 seconds, you can wait in the attunement to cast it.

If the boss is low hp (around 5-10%) and the next attunement would be water, but you also have air, fire or earth ready, you can go on earth, fire or air to finish it off, since water is the worst damage attunement on hammer (also also on most other ele weapons).
If the boss isnt low, you shouldnt skip water because water is a good source of healing (hammer 4), condi cleanse (hammer 5), combo finishers (hammer 4 and hammer 5) and soft ccs (chill). It also causes vulnerability with its orb.

The utility skill for blocking attacks (Fortified_Earth) :
Dont use this instantly after you applied a jade sphere, because this utility skill has a 3 second duration and will ruin your combo.
Example:
apply fire sphere -> fire hammer 2 -> fire hammer 5 -> Fortified Earth. ||| Good!
apply fire sphere -> fire hammer 2 -> Fortified Earth -> fire hammer 5 ||| Not Good!
This is because the fire field will then already disappear before you can blast the combo with hammer 5.
Other notes about Fortified Earth:
Dont dodge while using it, otherwise you will lose your 3k barrier. Because as the description says, you only get the barrier if the channel completes successfully.

Other notes about combos:
As you can see in the rotation, the is max. 1 skill between the jade sphere and combo finishers.
Casting a leap or blast finisher in the water field of water sphere will give you healing.
So its also not too bad if you skip fire sphere to use the water sphere if you face harder bosses.

Why the Fire sphere?
Its the least important one. Earth sphere gives protection so thats obv important and air sphere gives quickness for a smooth rotation.
Fire sphere basically just gives a dps increase due to might.

For the elite skill:
You can also already cast it before the fight if you dont have jackal.
Dont spam it: If you use it while full hp the healing will obv be fully useless so only use it if you have around 5-8k hp already lost.
And remember that it has a cast time (the elemental first has to cast it (sometimes very slow)) so dont use it in the very last second, otherwise you will be dead.

I think thats all you need to know.
I know its a lot...so yeah...as I said, its mostly very situational xD

However I would say you can use the above listed rotation as the base thing and if you need anything of the other attunements, just swap to them and dont be afraid of killing your rotation.
At the end you just swap between attunements depending on what you currently need basically. xD

Continuing to try and learn the build, thanks again for the thread!

It seems like I’m generating so many boons I don’t necessarily need to be so worried about blasting my fire and air fields if I’m alone. It looks like might is getting close to cap anyway, and I seem to have quickness a lot.

I’m wondering if I don’t have anyone to share the boons with, if it’d be better to skip the 5 skills. I do seem to get caught by enemy cc during their animations.

On that note, though, it looks like the blast finisher happens at the top of the skill. Is it possible to blast and somehow cancel the rest of the skill? Or is that a terrible idea?

Edited June 2, 2022 by Gibson.4036

[soulknight.9620]

5 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Continuing to try and learn the build, thanks again for the thread!

It seems like I’m generating so many boons I don’t necessarily need to be so worried about blasting my fire and air fields if I’m alone. It looks like might is getting close to cap anyway, and I seem to have quickness a lot.

I’m wondering if I don’t have anyone to share the boons with, if it’d be better to skip the 5 skills. I do seem to get caught by enemy cc during their animations.

On that note, though, it looks like the blast finisher happens at the top of the skill. Is it possible to blast and somehow cancel the rest of the skill? Or is that a terrible idea?

The 5 skills are really good for dps though and a free blast. If u can maintain quickness they cast really fast. I think its a matter of timing that u get caught in cc, try dodging and properly timing ur attacks (bursts) or u can always swap to the stab grandmaster trait to get loads of stab, but it cripples ur dps/boon generation. Dont forget that by blasting air u get a really good shock aura and a decent dps increase with fire aura (cause of the burns). 

[Gibson.4036]

6 hours ago, soulknight.9620 said:

The 5 skills are really good for dps though and a free blast. If u can maintain quickness they cast really fast. I think its a matter of timing that u get caught in cc, try dodging and properly timing ur attacks (bursts) or u can always swap to the stab grandmaster trait to get loads of stab, but it cripples ur dps/boon generation. Dont forget that by blasting air u get a really good shock aura and a decent dps increase with fire aura (cause of the burns). 

Gotcha. Thanks!

One of the things I’m trying to figure out is the time pressure. I’m trying to cycle through attunements fast enough to stack the #3 orbs which means I’m having trouble holding back on the blasts to time them.

It feels like there’s a rhythm to how this spec plays that I’m not getting yet. Like a novice piano student trying to rush through the song as fast as possible.

I also realized I made a mistake in my previous post. I meant swiftness, not quickness. So blasting the lightning field seems superfluous.

Edited June 2, 2022 by Gibson.4036

[Hashberry.4510]

Blasting the fields is done for the aura as well as the combo.

[soulknight.9620]

3 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

It feels like there’s a rhythm to how this spec plays that I’m not getting yet. Like a novice piano student trying to rush through the song as fast as possible.

First of all, the 3 cast instantly and can be cast while casting other skills, so no need to put them in "skill queue", just use them while ur using something else. Second, dont try to rush the spheres, their duration is 15 secs and thats plenty of time to use all of ur skills in a single attunement and switch to another one and have a few spare secs to use the next 3. And activating another 3 prolongues the effect of all of the active ones. So its best to maintain the hammer 3 for longest time possible to maximise its effect and when time runes out use grand finaly. Ofc this doesnt apply to a dps meta rotation cause there is a specific rotation in place. But in open world do try to get the "feel" of the timing on hammer 3 and not to rush it. When u will memorise, you will start to use it without paying attention to the timers. 

[Gibson.4036]

1 hour ago, soulknight.9620 said:

First of all, the 3 cast instantly and can be cast while casting other skills, so no need to put them in "skill queue", just use them while ur using something else. Second, dont try to rush the spheres, their duration is 15 secs and thats plenty of time to use all of ur skills in a single attunement and switch to another one and have a few spare secs to use the next 3. And activating another 3 prolongues the effect of all of the active ones. So its best to maintain the hammer 3 for longest time possible to maximise its effect and when time runes out use grand finaly. Ofc this doesnt apply to a dps meta rotation cause there is a specific rotation in place. But in open world do try to get the "feel" of the timing on hammer 3 and not to rush it. When u will memorise, you will start to use it without paying attention to the timers. 

Thanks, that makes sense. I’ll have to practice some more with those points in mind.

Much appreciated!

[Gibson.4036]

2 hours ago, Hashberry.4510 said:

Blasting the fields is done for the aura as well as the combo.

Of course! Totally forgot about that.

There are so many interactions going on with traits/spheres/orbs/skills and combos it’s taking a bit for me to get my head wrapped around it.

Edited June 2, 2022 by Gibson.4036

[Hashberry.4510]

Wicked fun spec though.

[Gibson.4036]

On 6/2/2022 at 5:21 PM, Hashberry.4510 said:

Wicked fun spec though.

Though I’m still fumbling around with it, totally agree. I’m eager to see what it can do when I’ve gotten more muscle memory with it.

[SeTect.5918]

Just an Update after one year for those who are interested (i was inactive):

1. Added jade core to the build. 2. Swapped "Fortified earth" with "Armor of earth". 3. Added a hammer to another weapon set to make clear you can use sigil of corruption. 4. Added "Relic of the fractal". 

The build is still as good as before.

New link: 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAIJlZwuYbMNGJeMX7xfA-DyIY1oivQyJCSPB6oEc4YQQEhFw9Di5gAeAVA-e