The problem isn't ranged damage...

[SlitheSlivier.1908]

The problem is that classes with high armor, many also with medium-high health, that also have group support skills/traits within their damage rotations are doing high damage at range.

Low hp, low armor, low support, low mobility/gap closures, low passive defenses, low active defenses, slow damage (spread over many pulses vs instant upon hit), Long-cast times,low range should deal the highest damage.

 

Currently staff ele is low everything except range (it's only mobility is a teleport and a backwards roll, neither have a short CD). Staff should be doing way more damage than Herald, which currently has high damage, medium(?) Hp, passive defenses, fast damage and high range. You can make the same comparison vs DHs. Both had smaller nerfs.

Then look at zerker, which can out-dps a staff ele from range, esp with acortched earth in many instances which did faster damage, has 24k hp instead of 12-16k, high armor, and it didn't get touched. Even in melee range it should be doing less with everything else it has going for it but arc Divider does crazy damage.

 

These are a few examples. 

Anet needs to revert this patch back.  Yes those skills on Herald and dh are in need of nerfs due to everything else going for those professions, tho prob only 10%...mayyyyybe 15% tops... not the huge amount they were just got for. Zerker skills need a look at. And staff ele still needs buffs and bug fixes not continual nerfs to delete it from the one role it had a niche for, even if it's still off-meta.

 

[Coldtart.4785]

I'd say the real issue is that a battle between evenly matched groups is a game of chicken. If you want to play aggressively against a group of 20 with a fb/scrapper/scourge/herald/dh comp your choices are to either try melee and dive into an ocean of red circles that'll be hitting you before you can strike or just hang back and range bomb.

[Kanyin.9605]

It's pretty clear OP doesn't play any kind of competitive WVW because staff weaver works just fine. They do the most damage out of anyone with Meteor alone. Revs are not top damage. Not even close. We have timed spike for instant downs and that's it. Cooldowns keep us from the top of damage meters while pirate shipping.

[Jski.6180]

21 minutes ago, Kanyin.9605 said:

It's pretty clear OP doesn't play any kind of competitive WVW because staff weaver works just fine. They do the most damage out of anyone with Meteor alone. Revs are not top damage. Not even close. We have timed spike for instant downs and that's it. Cooldowns keep us from the top of damage meters while pirate shipping.

Right but why nerf core staff ele catalyses staff ele and tempest staff ele if weaver working fine with staff then that was the issues not the staff. Every time anet nerfs an core class effect they nerf ALL of that classes elite spec not just the "maxed" version elite spec that is viable and or meta with such an effect.

[solemn.9670]

[redacted]

Edited May 11, 2022 by solemn.9670

[solemn.9608]

17 hours ago, Kanyin.9605 said:

It's pretty clear OP doesn't play any kind of competitive WVW because staff weaver works just fine. They do the most damage out of anyone with Meteor alone. Revs are not top damage. Not even close. We have timed spike for instant downs and that's it. Cooldowns keep us from the top of damage meters while pirate shipping.

It's pretty clear you've played a whole two minutes of staff ele since unless you're pro mlg staff Weaver most of your meteors can be walked out of before they even touch a competent group and vs a competent group the most your meteor *should* be doing vs that group is around 40% of your dps... Around 60% if the group you're fighting is trash.

Yes novice eles can drop a meteor shower

Novice anythings can press skills

This is not an argument to carelessly nerf the single most skill-based WvW zerging spec..

[Dralor.3701]

It’s cool that ele have more buttons but let’s please not pretend any of the damage rotations in this game are difficult.

[Sahne.6950]

in all honesty.... THEY NERFED STAFF on elementalist.... the mose meme weapon ever...

Their goal was to reduce the aoe range spam... but they again just applied a weird blanketnerf, without thinking about the actual performances of Professions.

[Dralor.3701]

To be clear I’m not happy with the damage nerfs for any of the professions that got hit.

However, our catalysts were constantly top damage so I’m not sure why people think staff ele was a meme? Catalyst>rev>scourge/reaper was pretty much always consistent damage rankings for our guild.

[Kozumi.5816]

On 5/10/2022 at 8:00 PM, SlitheSlivier.1908 said:

Anet needs to revert this patch back

Need to revert the game to  August 28th, 2012.

[Aeolus.3615]

@SlitheSlivier.1908 TDLR there are no balance in classes  trade offs in alot of builds/specs, its like  some have none and some have a real trade off wich makes them really hard to play.

On 5/12/2022 at 8:26 AM, Sahne.6950 said:

in all honesty.... THEY NERFED STAFF on elementalist.... the mose meme weapon ever...

Their goal was to reduce the aoe range spam... but they again just applied a weird blanketnerf, without thinking about the actual performances of Professions.

 

They actually increased :)  the range spam in the game, since there only melee fights when a ktrain catch 10 players or in very small scale fights :}

 

A simple high CD on staff would help rather than nerf damage, they kept the same CD, whenever i read the "balance" treatment ic on this skill idk if i shall cry or laught.

If Anet want really  their game to be skilled they need to make players choose well when to use their strong skills, nerfing damage and keep spaming just make the game worse  in terms of skill.

On single target i think range is fine, its is a bit to much opressive some class can condi tank and burst players in less than 5seconds  vs a melee build, but in  group play theres also alot of counters to the range skills, the real issue is that WvW is ment mostly for aoe rage taht is also used at melee range wich puts melee gemeplay in non existance.

 

• Reduced power coefficient from 1.1 to 0.88 in WvW only.

Edited May 14, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Kanyin.9605]

On 5/11/2022 at 3:08 PM, solemn.9608 said:

It's pretty clear you've played a whole two minutes of staff ele since unless you're pro mlg staff Weaver most of your meteors can be walked out of before they even touch a competent group and vs a competent group the most your meteor *should* be doing vs that group is around 40% of your dps... Around 60% if the group you're fighting is trash.

Yes novice eles can drop a meteor shower

Novice anythings can press skills

This is not an argument to carelessly nerf the single most skill-based WvW zerging spec..

I'm in one of the top WVW guilds in the game so yeah most of our weavers are "pro mlg staff Weaver" who have no issues hitting with their meteors.

[Jski.6180]

I am just trying to work out how dose anet went classes like ele run say d/d in wvw with a big group? Ele lacks tools that even ranged classes like ranger has of taking low to 0 dmg for a time that is key for pushing into a group.

[Dralor.3701]

17 hours ago, Jski.6180 said:

I am just trying to work out how dose anet went classes like ele run say d/d in wvw with a big group? Ele lacks tools that even ranged classes like ranger has of taking low to 0 dmg for a time that is key for pushing into a group.

What are you saying? I’ve seen seen weavers and tempest dive into zergs no problem.
Also coordinated guilds will have a mins fb and scrapper with the squishy dps so they are all fine.

[Jski.6180]

18 minutes ago, Dralor.3701 said:

What are you saying? I’ve seen seen weavers and tempest dive into zergs no problem.
Also coordinated guilds will have a mins fb and scrapper with the squishy dps so they are all fine.

A lot of that is ele using its def skills but often its def skills lock out the eles ability to do dmg. Unlike other classes whom are ranged whom can do dmg AND have high def or stab or even counter soft cc. Ele skills and effects are "mage" like where it must fill one roll at a time but often that is not effect or even worth doing when you say "dive" into an zerg with mist forms or even twitect of fath you are doing nothing but wait an cd where other classes are doing something with the added effect of def.

What i am saying is every thing about the ele class is wrong and out dated. It needs a massive rework all at once and the current tried of small updates and nerfs only make the class seem broken with one effect leading to nerfs of that effect with out any real though of weaker effects that are simply worthless befor a nerf and beyond worthless after such nerfs.

Ele as an class is a big mess of unfinished business of anet and kind of always will be till they comply rework the class all at once. OR you have nerfs to MS because weaver happens to have too much power creep there by nerfing tempest catalyses and core ele for no good reason. OR you see massive sustain nerfs to weaver catalyses and core ele because tempest happens to have good sustain in healing. OR massive boon nerfs because catalyses has much better boon effects. It is an endless cycle of nerfs because of the lack of real work into the class and caused bye the over all laziness of the anet devs. Ele as an class cant be fixed the same way or even balanced the same way as the other classes because of this.

Edited May 15, 2022 by Jski.6180

[Dralor.3701]

1 hour ago, Jski.6180 said:

A lot of that is ele using its def skills but often its def skills lock out the eles ability to do dmg. Unlike other classes whom are ranged whom can do dmg AND have high def or stab or even counter soft cc. Ele skills and effects are "mage" like where it must fill one roll at a time but often that is not effect or even worth doing when you say "dive" into an zerg with mist forms or even twitect of fath you are doing nothing but wait an cd where other classes are doing something with the added effect of def.

What i am saying is every thing about the ele class is wrong and out dated. It needs a massive rework all at once and the current tried of small updates and nerfs only make the class seem broken with one effect leading to nerfs of that effect with out any real though of weaker effects that are simply worthless befor a nerf and beyond worthless after such nerfs.

Ele as an class is a big mess of unfinished business of anet and kind of always will be till they comply rework the class all at once. OR you have nerfs to MS because weaver happens to have too much power creep there by nerfing tempest catalyses and core ele for no good reason. OR you see massive sustain nerfs to weaver catalyses and core ele because tempest happens to have good sustain in healing. OR massive boon nerfs because catalyses has much better boon effects. It is an endless cycle of nerfs because of the lack of real work into the class and caused bye the over all laziness of the anet devs. Ele as an class cant be fixed the same way or even balanced the same way as the other classes because of this.

Still seeing mostly the same top classes even with the nerfs. I mainly play necro and just learn how to deal with no stability but again most groups have fb+mins. 
 

I doubt they are balancing for pugs or clouding but all the guild/organized groups.

[Jski.6180]

7 hours ago, Dralor.3701 said:

Still seeing mostly the same top classes even with the nerfs. I mainly play necro and just learn how to deal with no stability but again most groups have fb+mins. 
 

I doubt they are balancing for pugs or clouding but all the guild/organized groups.

The same 3 classes over and over? Well ya the meta is just 3 classes ele is not part of that meta. Even before "the core ele MS and conja FGS nerf due to weaver dps" weaver dps was still not enofe to fill in for an necro. Now its going to be even worst for the ele class.

No one seems to know what anet is balancing for if they where going for more organized groups then 10 target effects would still be in the game wvw as it lets very organized groups deal with much larger pug clouding groups.