Does the Kaineng meta event need adjustments?

[Erise.5614]

53 minutes ago, Silent.6137 said:

As for the rewards, yes, I'd like better rewards. Who wouldn't? But they are no worse than any rewards on any other maps. In fact, farming on those maps are often quite a lot better than on most maps.

DE is competitive if you succeed and get on a map as close to the event start as possible.

But Keineng, for example, is ~4-5 gold for 40 minutes. Including all currencies and mats you earn turned into gold.

That is below most base game world bosses and the value is even inflated currently because so few people are doing it. Meaning the statuette you get is over 4 times as valuable as any of the others.

It would be appropriate it was ~10-15 minutes long from start to finish. Then it would be in line with other meta events. But as it stands, it really is a lot below other events. 

[Astralporing.1957]

1 hour ago, Silent.6137 said:

Every single event are scaled on EoD. If you can't solo a champ, that's because they are not meant to be soloed. No different from any other maps.

You might have not noticed yet, but scaling is not linear. Each event with scaling has its scaling "floor", below which it just doesn't get any easier with less players (i.e. minimum scaling for Tequatl is around 30 players from what i can remember), and some are being scaled in "steps" where there are specific player numbers that are beneficial (i.e. guild capture events, which scale up for each full miltiply of 10, meaning it's best to do it at one player just below that (preferably 9).

Not to mention even the linear scaling, when it happens, has different calculations per each player. Some events (i.e. Thaumanova's fire elemental) become much. much easier with more players, while for others (i.e. Golem Mark II) it's the other way around - they are best being done with as few players as possible.

So, saying that every single event is scaled, while true, does not mean there are not many problems with scaling for some specific events.

1 hour ago, Silent.6137 said:

As for the rewards, yes, I'd like better rewards. Who wouldn't? But they are no worse than any rewards on any other maps. In fact, farming on those maps are often quite a lot better than on most maps.

For Kaineng that's completely untrue i am afraid.

[Silent.6137]

40 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

DE is competitive if you succeed and get on a map as close to the event start as possible.

But Keineng, for example, is ~4-5 gold for 40 minutes. Including all currencies and mats you earn turned into gold.

That is below most base game world bosses and the value is even inflated currently because so few people are doing it. Meaning the statuette you get is over 4 times as valuable as any of the others.

It would be appropriate it was ~10-15 minutes long from start to finish. Then it would be in line with other meta events. But as it stands, it really is a lot below other events. 

I'm not refering to Kaineng in particular but to all EoD maps in general since that's what I'm replying to : EoD rewards as mentioned by Dante.1508.

As for the profitability, although not conclusive especially with the small dataset, they are an indications of the maps/metas being inline with other maps, i.e. not worse: Open World Meta and Farm Train

 

[Silent.6137]

3 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

So, saying that every single event is scaled, while true, does not mean there are not many problems with scaling for some specific events.

For Kaineng that's completely untrue i am afraid.

Never said there's no problem with scaling. Just stressing that all events in EoD are scaled, just like any other maps.

Refer to my reply above regarding Kaineng.

[Erise.5614]

19 minutes ago, Silent.6137 said:

I'm not refering to Kaineng in particular but to all EoD maps in general since that's what I'm replying to : EoD rewards as mentioned by Dante.1508.

As for the profitability, although not conclusive especially with the small dataset, they are an indications of the maps/metas being inline with other maps, i.e. not worse: Open World Meta and Farm Train

 

FastFarming has a bug, overvaluing Imperial Favor.

If you look at the context for the number you'll see that out of 17 gold it claims for a Kaineng Run, 14 gold are directly from imperial favor. It even recommends you to get Writ of Kaineng from the Hero's Choice chest because it thinks it's worth almost 3 gold. 

However, besides A.S.S. (1 per week), the only way to convert favor is through a vendor who sells stuff for Imperial Favor and Research Notes. FastFarming calculates with a Research Note value of 0. Aka, it assumes you got those for free. 

(Edit: Also, the value is driven by selling specific exotic armor on TP. If a lot of people would do it, the value would drop very quickly. Right now there's less than 20 trades per day of the most valuable piece of armor. To get the value assumed by FastFarming you'd need to sell more than 5 by yourself per run)

Seitung is a little better. Especially because Ambergris. Making it worth about 6-7 gold for 30 minutes. So more gold in less time. But even Seitung is below several core tyria world bosses.

Edited June 14, 2022 by Erise.5614

[Silent.6137]

11 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

FastFarming has a bug, overvaluing Imperial Favor.

If you look at the context for the number you'll see that out of 17 gold it claims for a Kaineng Run, 14 gold are directly from imperial favor. It even recommends you to get Writ of Kaineng from the Hero's Choice chest because it thinks it's worth almost 3 gold. 

However, besides A.S.S. (1 per week), the only way to convert favor is through a vendor who sells stuff for Imperial Favor and Research Notes. FastFarming calculates with a Research Note value of 0. Aka, it assumes you got those for free. 

(Edit: Also, the value is driven by selling specific exotic armor on TP. If a lot of people would do it, the value would drop very quickly. Right now there's less than 20 trades per day of the most valuable piece of armor. To get the value assumed by FastFarming you'd need to sell more than 5 by yourself)

Seitung is a little better. Especially because Ambergris. Making it worth about 6-7 gold for 30 minutes. So more gold in less time. But even Seitung is below several core tyria world bosses.

It really doesn't matter how profitable any particular map is in comparison to any others or how overvalued Fast Farming assigned some items. Or how much each item sells for. I'm merely responding to the post that says farming Eod is not worth it, to which I disagree. I've farmed every single of GW2 openworld maps and I know roughly how profitable each of them are.

[Khisanth.2948]

35 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

You might have not noticed yet, but scaling is not linear. Each event with scaling has its scaling "floor", below which it just doesn't get any easier with less players (i.e. minimum scaling for Tequatl is around 30 players from what i can remember), and some are being scaled in "steps" where there are specific player numbers that are beneficial (i.e. guild capture events, which scale up for each full miltiply of 10, meaning it's best to do it at one player just below that (preferably 9).

Not to mention even the linear scaling, when it happens, has different calculations per each player. Some events (i.e. Thaumanova's fire elemental) become much. much easier with more players, while for others (i.e. Golem Mark II) it's the other way around - they are best being done with as few players as possible.

So, saying that every single event is scaled, while true, does not mean there are not many problems with scaling for some specific events.

For Kaineng that's completely untrue i am afraid.

Some events have a scaling cap which means if there are more people around than the cap the event starts turning into easy mode.

The cap was mentioned in one of the patches for the Caledon jungle wurm.

[Erise.5614]

15 minutes ago, Silent.6137 said:

It really doesn't matter how profitable any particular map is in comparison to any others or how overvalued Fast Farming assigned some items. Or how much each item sells for. I'm merely responding to the post that says farming Eod is not worth it, to which I disagree. I've farmed every single of GW2 openworld maps and I know roughly how profitable each of them are.

...I mean. Evidently you do not^^

I mostly play OW and do benchmark my own findings against fast farming and against each other. It usually is fairly close to the detailed results fast farming achieves (in terms of which items drop and in what amount, the values and durations can be off by a lot).

Kaineng is bottom 5% of all OW metas. Echovald is the same but half as long. So it's just a bit below average. Seitung is about average for all metas (which isn't great considering HoT and most LW maps are above average). And Dragon's End is about fine if you spend ~1h or less for the entire process. 

This may change if they give writs or favor a different use in the future. So it may actually be fine in the long run. But as of today, EoD maps in general are not particularly appealing reward wise. And half of them are genuinely bad.

Edited June 14, 2022 by Erise.5614

[Silent.6137]

12 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

...I mean. Evidently you do not^^

I do not what? That I don't farm openworld maps or have no clue how much profit I made from those maps?

EDIT: I'm pretty sure that comment was addressing " to which I disagree". But since it's rather vague, my answer is meant to be facetious.

Edited June 14, 2022 by Silent.6137

[Astralporing.1957]

10 minutes ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

Some events have a scaling cap which means if there are more people around than the cap the event starts turning into easy mode.

The cap was mentioned in one of the patches for the Caledon jungle wurm.

Yes. Events have different scaling floors, caps and different scaling calculations too. That's why the mere existence of scaling for something is meaningless - what counts is how scaling works in that specific example.

[Erise.5614]

32 minutes ago, Silent.6137 said:

I do not what? That I don't farm openworld maps or have no clue how much profit I made from those maps?

EDIT: I'm pretty sure that comment was addressing " to which I disagree". But since it's rather vague, my answer is meant to be facetious.

It was meant to be read as direct reply, picking up on the last words. So in response to "knowing how profitable EoD maps are". 

Considering you are coming from this perspective

Quote

In fact, farming on those maps are often quite a lot better than on most maps.

This statement really does not match up with my numbers or the numbers of others (e.g. fast farming community). While also clashing with the perception a lot of players have while playing (see this thread). 

The response "because I play OW and I just know" suggested to me that we probably didn't overlook anything. But that it is rather more likely  you misjudged the profitability. 

Edited June 14, 2022 by Erise.5614

[Silent.6137]

6 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

It was meant to be read as direct reply, picking up on the last words. So in response to "knowing how profitable EoD maps are". 

 

This statement really does not match up with my numbers or the numbers of others (e.g. fast farming community). While also clashing with the perception a lot of players have while playing (see this thread). 

The response "because I play OW and I just know" suggested to me that we probably didn't overlook anything. But that it is rather more likely  you misjudged the profitability. 

My experiences tell me that EoD maps are profitable and definitely worth farming. Whether you agree or disagree, or think I've misjudged or whatever your numbers are, it really makes no differences. I make more gold/hour farming some items/events on EoD than on some other maps (The emphasis is for those who tends to ignore certain words). That's all that matters.

Just to be clear. Defending EoD doesn't mean I think other maps are bad. There are great ones and bad ones And I haven't stop farming them, even the lesser ones for varieties.

[Erise.5614]

29 minutes ago, Silent.6137 said:

My experiences tell me that EoD maps are profitable and definitely worth farming. Whether you agree or disagree, or think I've misjudged or whatever your numbers are, it really makes no differences. I make more gold/hour farming some items/events on EoD than on some other maps (The emphasis is for those who tends to ignore certain words). That's all that matters.

Just to be clear. Defending EoD doesn't mean I think other maps are bad. There are great ones and bad ones And I haven't stop farming them, even the lesser ones for varieties.

Out of curiosity. Which maps are more profitable than Kaineng in your experience? 

And what is the rough value you were talking about when calling EoD maps

Quote

quite a lot more valuable than most maps

Because as far as I can tell. Kaineng really is struggling in multiple ways. Besides being long and with little rewards at the end I can not think of a good explanation why the statuette might be several times more valuable than any other. 

Edited June 14, 2022 by Erise.5614

[Silent.6137]

19 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

Out of curiosity. Which maps are more profitable than Kaineng in your experience? 

And what is the rough value you were talking about when calling EoD maps

Because as far as I can tell. Kaineng really is struggling in multiple ways. Besides being long and with little rewards at the end I can not think of a good explanation why the statuette might be several times more valuable than any other. 

I never did say Kaineng is more profitable than other maps.

Original Comment:

Quote

On a similar note make all EoD events scale with players, if you don't they will stay not done, i avoid 99% of EoD events now because the maps are so dead and i cannot even complete them solo.. also the rewards aren't worth even bothering with.

My reply:

Quote

But they are no worse than any rewards on any other maps. In fact, farming on those maps are often quite a lot better than on most maps.

Quote

I'm not refering to Kaineng in particular but to all EoD maps in general

Quote

I'm merely responding to the post that says farming Eod is not worth it, to which I disagree.

Quote

I make more gold/hour farming some items/events on EoD than on some other maps

I stress yet again, I'm talking about EoD maps in general. Some are good, some are bad. No different from any other areas/zones.

I do Kaineng meta sometimes but for EoD maps, I do not farm there unless I'm already there for certain things since there are better farming areas such as Echovalds.

As for value, again I refer you to Farmtrain's data. Although there are liberties taken with the data ( not taking farming for keys, acid, machetes, etc., etc. into account) they are approximate representations as compared to other maps.

----

One thing I'd like to point out. Defending something is not an either or proposition, as some seems to think. Liking or agreeing with something does not mean you hate the alternatives. Just like I said farming on EoD maps are good, some people immediately assumed I think farming on other maps are bad.

Or if I farm EoD maps, that means I have no idea what farming other maps are like. Or if I Like harder contents, it doesn't means I do not enjoy easy contents. And the list goes on and on.

 

[Dante.1508]

16 hours ago, Silent.6137 said:

Every single event are scaled on EoD. If you can't solo a champ, that's because they are not meant to be soloed. No different from any other maps.

As for the rewards, yes, I'd like better rewards. Who wouldn't? But they are no worse than any rewards on any other maps. In fact, farming on those maps are often quite a lot better than on most maps.

Its not just champs a lot of EoD events are timed and the enemies are such hp sponges or teleport and vanish permanently, it takes too long to complete the events.. and fail, other reasons as well.

 

EoD events are just cookie cutter pointless events that award currencies no one wants outside of legendary farmers..

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

The only adjustment it might need is making the Escort faster/shorter. Straight up removing the Escort would be a decent solution as well.

[Taclism.2406]

Even in the month following EoD's release, I literally never did Kaineng pre events / meta in full (same with echovald's)
Always accidentally got on a map around the last events / boss fight and tagged along, while I was initially aiming either for EoD HP on my rerolls, or for some EoD daily. It never felt like its worth my time to stay there if the meta just started. And now I'm done with HPs / dont care for those dailies anymore, I just dont go there at all.

Now the "new" factor is gone and its confirmed to be one the least rewarding meta, its fate is to become another Serpent Ire on the long run. The only thing that could attract back players is to replace the jade chunk reward with a 1k research note reward in kaineng daily chest, so people have a way to grind those without the garbage that are research kits (and playing instead of sitting in a menu)

Edited June 15, 2022 by Taclism.2406