Where does the Canach Scrying pool mission fit?

[Killjoy.9213]

I wannt to run the Canach Scrying Pool mission while doing the LW1 stuff, but, I'm clueless as to when I should do it. Does anyone have any idea when it should be done?

 

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

5 hours ago, Killjoy.9213 said:

I wannt to run the Canach Scrying Pool mission while doing the LW1 stuff, but, I'm clueless as to when I should do it. Does anyone have any idea when it should be done?

 

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Living_World_Season_1#Overview

Edited June 19, 2022 by Inculpatus cedo.9234

[AgentMoore.9453]

5 hours ago, Killjoy.9213 said:

Does anyone have any idea when it should be done?

Unfortunately, the best answer we currently have is that there will be nowhere in the revamped LW1 offerings where this mission fits. The Southsun arc is being cut/postponed in favor of the Scarlet/Lion's Arch storyline. Devs said they do eventually want to present the Southsun stuff in some way, but it's not what they're working on right now.

Given that Southsun introduces Canach and Kiel, I really hope they don't forget to do this at some point or else Canach is just going to roll up to Dragon's Watch with a cocktail and players will just have to shrug and accept his presence without any preamble.

[Linken.6345]

9 hours ago, AgentMoore.9453 said:

Unfortunately, the best answer we currently have is that there will be nowhere in the revamped LW1 offerings where this mission fits. The Southsun arc is being cut/postponed in favor of the Scarlet/Lion's Arch storyline. Devs said they do eventually want to present the Southsun stuff in some way, but it's not what they're working on right now.

Given that Southsun introduces Canach and Kiel, I really hope they don't forget to do this at some point or else Canach is just going to roll up to Dragon's Watch with a cocktail and players will just have to shrug and accept his presence without any preamble.

Well he started stared in season 2 as a prisoner did he not?

Edited June 19, 2022 by Linken.6345

[Danikat.8537]

It was part of the Last Stand at Southsun episode, which was released between Flame & Frost and the first Dragon Bash (which is now part of Sky Pirates). But considering it's one tiny fragment without any of the rest of the storyline to set the scene I'm not sure it matters much when you do it, the mission will be out of context either way.

Hopefully they'll bring back the Southsun storyline at some point. I suspect part of the reason they haven't done it yet is because they'd have to include the Lost Shores weekend which used a unique format, and part of the reason Anet never did something like that again is it didn't work well the first time around. I can imagine bringing it back would be more work than any of the season 1 episodes. But even so I hope they figure it out, because the story isn't really complete without it.

[Killjoy.9213]

21 hours ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Living_World_Season_1#Overview

I did check that before posting, I just probably didn't understand it properly.

4 hours ago, Danikat.8537 said:

It was part of the Last Stand at Southsun episode, which was released between Flame & Frost and the first Dragon Bash (which is now part of Sky Pirates). But considering it's one tiny fragment without any of the rest of the storyline to set the scene I'm not sure it matters much when you do it, the mission will be out of context either way.

Hopefully they'll bring back the Southsun storyline at some point. I suspect part of the reason they haven't done it yet is because they'd have to include the Lost Shores weekend which used a unique format, and part of the reason Anet never did something like that again is it didn't work well the first time around. I can imagine bringing it back would be more work than any of the season 1 episodes. But even so I hope they figure it out, because the story isn't really complete without it.

Ok, so to to the Scrying Pool vision I'd roughly have to do in in between LW1 Parts 1Flame and Frost) and 2(Sky Pirates) that are currently released. Even though the Scrying Pool thing isn't the whole thing(understandably).

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

Given that they could technically fit all of Southsun before Flame and Frost (i.e before all of LWS1), its likely they'll bring it back at some point as some kind of bridge between Personal Story and LWS1.

 

For now, that mission is effectively erased from lore.

[Dark Red Killian.3946]

19 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

Well he started stared in season 2 as a prisoner did he not?

He was in season 2 flashbacks, but that is not how the commander came to know canach.

[mythical.6315]

7 hours ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

For now, that mission is effectively erased from lore.

Everything is still canon to the story. 

[squeegee.4320]

Since they made changes anyway, I don't know why they didn't just have someone mention what happened with Southsun and the Consortium, or even just have a news booklet lying about.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

On 6/18/2022 at 11:52 PM, Killjoy.9213 said:

I wannt to run the Canach Scrying Pool mission while doing the LW1 stuff, but, I'm clueless as to when I should do it. Does anyone have any idea when it should be done?

It happened during the "The Secret of Southsun" arc (specifically the release Last Stand at Southsun), which took place between Flame and Frost and Sky Pirates of the S1 Return. It takes place in the dead middle of the Secret of Southsun arc, being the beginning of the second release. The storyline was basically 3 open world dialogues/events, one scavenger hunt, the "dungeon" of Canach's Lair, and a story instance - along with two short stories that prelude it.

The full S1 story order is and replayability is:

1. The Lost Shores (unavailable)
2. Flame and Frost (mostly returned via story journal)
3. Secret of Southsun (mostly unavailable; Scrying Pool mission)
4. Sky Pirates (mostly returned via story journal)
5. Cutthroat Politics (unlikely to return)
6. Clockwork Chaos (due to return)
7. Tequatl Rising (unlikely to return)
8. Twilight Assault (still in-game)
9. Tower of Nightmares (likely to return; has Scrying Pool mission)
10. The Origins of Madness (return status unclear, has Scrying Pool world boss)
11. Battle for Lion's Arch (due to return)

On 6/19/2022 at 2:27 PM, Linken.6345 said:

Well he started stared in season 2 as a prisoner did he not?

From a certain point of view, his billet was bought by Anise at the epilogue of Season 1, and was "in her service" as an indentured servant of sorts to her during S2->S3. Whether you consider that still being a prisoner or not is a debate of semantics.

11 hours ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

Given that they could technically fit all of Southsun before Flame and Frost (i.e before all of LWS1), its likely they'll bring it back at some point as some kind of bridge between Personal Story and LWS1.

 

For now, that mission is effectively erased from lore.

Secret of Southsun fully canonically happens after Flame and Frost. The entire premise of the story is that the Consortium are keeping refugees from the Molten Alliance attacks there by legal means against their wants, and Canach (who even brandishes Fused Gauntlets from his time fighting the Molten Alliance) is using bioterrorism to "help" the refugee settlers while blinded for his desire of revenge.

The storyline is not erased from lore, as Sky Pirates fully references it, as does Flame and Frost. We even had dev confirmation that it's still canon via Bobby Stein confirmation.

4 hours ago, narwhalsbend.7059 said:

Since they made changes anyway, I don't know why they didn't just have someone mention what happened with Southsun and the Consortium, or even just have a news booklet lying about.

They added a line by Magnus at the end of Sky Pirates that does a very cringy nudge-nudge-wink-wink reference to it:

Captain Magnus: I agree. Kiel has leadership potential. Great drive. She did good in the Southsun fiasco, too, but that's another story...

PC: Oh yeah? I'd like to hear that sometime.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Case_Closed

Edited June 20, 2022 by Konig Des Todes.2086

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

11 hours ago, mythical.6315 said:

Everything is still canon to the story. 

 

7 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

It happened during the "The Secret of Southsun" arc (specifically the release Last Stand at Southsun), which took place between Flame and Frost and Sky Pirates of the S1 Return. It takes place in the dead middle of the Secret of Southsun arc, being the beginning of the second release. The storyline was basically 3 open world dialogues/events, one scavenger hunt, the "dungeon" of Canach's Lair, and a story instance - along with two short stories that prelude it.

The full S1 story order is and replayability is:

1. The Lost Shores (unavailable)
2. Flame and Frost (mostly returned via story journal)
3. Secret of Southsun (mostly unavailable; Scrying Pool mission)
4. Sky Pirates (mostly returned via story journal)
5. Cutthroat Politics (unlikely to return)
6. Clockwork Chaos (due to return)
7. Tequatl Rising (unlikely to return)
8. Twilight Assault (still in-game)
9. Tower of Nightmares (likely to return; has Scrying Pool mission)
10. The Origins of Madness (return status unclear, has Scrying Pool world boss)
11. Battle for Lion's Arch (due to return)

From a certain point of view, his billet was bought by Anise at the epilogue of Season 1, and was "in her service" as an indentured servant of sorts to her during S2->S3. Whether you consider that still being a prisoner or not is a debate of semantics.

Secret of Southsun fully canonically happens after Flame and Frost. The entire premise of the story is that the Consortium are keeping refugees from the Molten Alliance attacks there by legal means against their wants, and Canach (who even brandishes Fused Gauntlets from his time fighting the Molten Alliance) is using bioterrorism to "help" the refugee settlers while blinded for his desire of revenge.

The storyline is not erased from lore, as Sky Pirates fully references it, as does Flame and Frost. We even had dev confirmation that it's still canon via Bobby Stein confirmation.

They added a line by Magnus at the end of Sky Pirates that does a very cringy nudge-nudge-wink-wink reference to it:

Captain Magnus: I agree. Kiel has leadership potential. Great drive. She did good in the Southsun fiasco, too, but that's another story...

PC: Oh yeah? I'd like to hear that sometime.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Case_Closed

This contradicts past instances where the devs implied only events that happen in-game are truly canon, which is how they retconned alot of lore not only from Core GW2 but also from GW1.

 

To stand by the statement "this still happened", they'd have to go back and fix various issues with LWS3, PoF and LWS4, particularly revolving around Balthazar's storyline, which is completely out of place from a lorical standpoint but fits into the gameplay when you only take the game itself as canon.

 

Even IBS could use some tweaking in that regard, but that's a whole thing on its own.

 

But I don't see the point of getting into it when there's already countless threads on the matter. If they add it back to the game, then it happened, if they don't then future players will never know or care.

Edited June 21, 2022 by Hannelore.8153

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

11 minutes ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

This contradicts past instances where the devs implied only events that happen in-game are truly canon, which is how they retconned alot of lore not only from Core GW2 but also from GW1.

Devs never implied any such thing. What was said by Bobby Stein in the past was basically "things that happen in-game supercede contradictory comments from dev commentary". This was stated in response to some such commentary being contradicted by the game sometime after the comment, it was basically just a kneejerk response to criticism about "devs not knowing lore" at the time and was basically just establishing a hierarchy of canonocity.

It isn't "if it isn't in-game it isn't canon", it's "if the game contradicts what's not in-game, take what's in-game as canon".

And there's no contradiction here - both in-game and dev comment agree: Southsun events happened, and there's even dialogue in-game recognizing the PC was present if they have some of the old S1 achievements done (though this might be an oversight).

 

As to the mentioned retcons - in most cases, it's a situation of unreliable narrator (e.g., Glint's true origins). Which isn't a bad retcon at all, in of itself at least. Retcons happen all the time in all sorts of media, it's all about how it's done as to whether it's bad or not, despite the stigma towards the word "retcon".

11 minutes ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

To stand by the statement "this still happened", they'd have to go back and fix various issues with LWS3, PoF and LWS4, particularly revolving around Balthazar's storyline, which is completely out of place from a lorical standpoint but fits into the gameplay when you only take the game itself as canon.

 

Even IBS could use some tweaking in that regard, but that's a whole thing on its own.

I don't see how the Southsun arc at all relates to Balthazar or IBS. And if you're just talking about narrative inconsistencies, Balthazar's apparent personality shift over the span of 250 years, and the very pathetic-due-to-cut-budget (lack of) explanation for why the world didn't go boom with IBS finale, are ENTIRELY different style of topic than the Southsun arcs being cut from S1 return but still being canon events.