Thief changes upcoming announced

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

Thief

Utility

• Seal Area: Reduced duration from 8 seconds to 5 seconds in PvP only.
• Hide in Shadows: Reduced cooldown from 40 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP only.
• Blinding Powder: Reduced cooldown from 50 seconds to 40 seconds in PvP only.
• Shadow Refuge: Reduced cooldown from 60 seconds to 48 seconds in PvP and WvW.

Shadow Arts

• Concealing Restoration: This trait has been removed and replaced by Merciful Ambush.
• Merciful Ambush: This trait has been moved to adept minor and now heals when entering or exiting stealth instead of applying a pulse heal upon entering stealth.
• Shielding Restoration: This trait fills the slot previously held by Merciful Ambush. It grants barrier to nearby allies after using a healing skill.
• Shadow's Embrace: This trait now removes a damaging condition when entering or exiting stealth instead of at every interval while in stealth. This effect also applies to stealth granted to allies.
• Hidden Thief: This trait has been reworked. Stealing now inflicts blindness, and stealth attacks now inflict weakness.
• Meld with Shadows: This trait has been reworked. Players now gain Superspeed when entering or exiting stealth.
• Leeching Venoms: This trait now grants stacks of Spider Venom when entering or exiting stealth instead of every interval while in stealth.
• Flickering Shadows: This trait has been removed and replaced by Cloaked in Shadow.
• Cover of Shadow: This trait fills the slot previously held by Cloaked in Shadow. Players now gain protection when entering or exiting stealth. This effect also applies to stealth granted to allies.
• Shadow's Rejuvenation: This trait no longer grants healing or initiative while in stealth and instead grants initiative when entering or exiting stealth.
• Rending Shade: Increased the number of boons stolen from 1 to 2 in PvP and WvW.

Critical Strikes

• Keen Observer: Critical chance bonus increased from 10% to 15% in PvE only.
• Unrelenting Strikes: This trait now may activate on any critical hit, granting 4 seconds of fury to up to 5 allies in a circle with a range of 360. Internal cooldown is 8 seconds.

Trickery

• Thrill of the Crime: Might stacks granted increased from 3 to 5 in PvE only.

Specter

• Traversing Dusk: Reduced base shadow force gain from 5% to 3% in PvP only

Edited June 24, 2022 by Lithril Ashwalker.6230

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

My only concern is will cloaked in shadow ALSO have the lifesteal on blind. That is very big. I desire the change to it being an additional change, not an entire rework

Edited June 24, 2022 by Lithril Ashwalker.6230

[BobbyT.7192]

So in short; all of the effects that pulsed while you were in stealth will now apply only when you enter and exit stealth. 

It's an idea that got floated around here for a while now. Forces the thief out of stealth more with out resorting to more annoying reveal skills.

[kash.9213]

3 minutes ago, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

My only concern is will cloaked in shadow ALSO have the lifesteal on blind. That is very big. I desire the change to it being an additional change, not an entire rework

Good point. 

We'll have to get our hands on it but those SA changes actually look alright. Maybe that's bias since it would boost one of my main builds with the barrier and group modifiers but I also feel like it's less about staying in stealth and more about actually actively using stealth to fight.

Edited June 24, 2022 by kash.9213

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

1 minute ago, kash.9213 said:

Good point. 

We'll have to get our hands on it but those SA changes actually look alright. Maybe that's bias since it would boost one of my main builds with the barrier and group modifiers but I also feel like it's less about staying in stealth and more about actually actively using stealth to fight.

If the initiative gain per entry and exiting is at least 2 initiative id be down with it. Otherwise at 1 initative per entry or exit makes it yet another useless trait. Cant wait to see deadeye make a comeback

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

If i had a picture graphic in trait window to look yhi mg s over itd help a bunch but im stuck at work right now. If you guys get to it just post it

[RyuDragnier.9476]

It's interesting, and floats the idea of a heal spec for Thief more since stealth can actually be used to help people out more in group content...but man will the team hate me for interrupting AA.

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

17 minutes ago, RyuDragnier.9476 said:

It's interesting, and floats the idea of a heal spec for Thief more since stealth can actually be used to help people out more in group content...but man will the team hate me for interrupting AA.

We spam 1 anyway soooo lol

[GewRoo.4172]

Regarding PvP/WvW: Even more blind spam, yummy! I doubt these trait line changes make stealth less powerful tho - entering stealth takes a little bit more resources and sitting in stealth is a little bit less rewarding (and a little bit more expensive). Utitlies straight up buffed lol. Obv leaving stealth is encouraged but I can't see how this changes the playstyle of various SA builds. Ez mode still enabled. Sad! 

 

Edit: Typo

Edited June 24, 2022 by GewRoo.4172

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

Just now, GewRoo.4172 said:

Regarding PvP/WvW: Even more blind spam, yummy! I doubt these trait line changes make stealth less powerful tho - entering stealth takes a little bit more resources and sitting in stealth is a little bit less rewarding (and a little bit more expensive). Utitlies straight up buffed lol. Obv leaving stealth is encouraged but I can't see how this changes the playstyle of various SA builds. Ez mode still enables. Sad! 

Well incoming stealth application SHOULD, IN THEORY, allow groups of thieves to stack together utilizing these effects to strike from shadows. Meld in shadows was the trait that increased stealth uptime, so this is gonna hurt if this too gets the 1s removed

[Jumpel.3972]

30 minutes ago, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

Otherwise at 1 initative per entry or exit makes it yet another useless trait

Even only 1 int is already broken. I belive there will be a icd of at least 2-3s

[ixon.2496]

It might make dagger/dagger less of a condi meme build. I miss the OG power thief. Popping in and out of stealth.

 

But i'm hoping thats not everything they've done, acrobatics should have been priority, and 300s cooldowns.  Shadowarts had its place in meta quite a lot, so just waiting for the sTeAlTh oP complaints to go wild again. It might be incredibly weak with reveal hindering boon uptime and heal applications. 

 

Probably a big buff to deadeye.

[Curennos.9307]

I think anet did a pretty good job with these changes, overall. There are some I don't like - looks like they're removing stealth on heal and steal, which sucks.

 

It would have been nice to see...Just, more, I guess. Why didn't acro get ANYTHING? Why do we still have 300 sec CD traits? I really like that SA is getting more support stuff, but it feels like it's the expensive of everything else that was suffering a LOT more.

Edited June 24, 2022 by Curennos.9307

[GewRoo.4172]

12 minutes ago, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

Well incoming stealth application SHOULD, IN THEORY, allow groups of thieves to stack together utilizing these effects to strike from shadows. Meld in shadows was the trait that increased stealth uptime, so this is gonna hurt if this too gets the 1s removed

 

Concealing Restoration hits hard if you are used to Withdrawal on SA builds. Everything else doesn't really feels like a nerf but a genuine rework. Of course there are some minor nerfs but tbh it could have been much worse (or better if you dislike the trait line ;P). 

Edited June 24, 2022 by GewRoo.4172

[RyuDragnier.9476]

I'm really hoping Acro is next on the list of traitlines to adjust, because it's far too lacking.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

I'm in two minds about this. On the one hand, the loss of stealth on steal and syphon is a hard nerf to my roaming build, which revolved around immobilising people in wells. On the the other hand, for every other thief spec these are really very positive changes that should have been introduced years ago. Will have to see how it pans out. 

[Felices Bladewing.3914]

I actually like the idea of the SA changes, but have to wait how it will play out.

 

a bit sad, that generel pdmg vs cdmg wasnt adressed and stuff like the current acro trait and trickery still kinda mandatory but maybe they continue to now make regular balance changes and have something on their mind which will be done next time.

[BobbyT.7192]

26 minutes ago, ixon.2496 said:

It might make dagger/dagger less of a condi meme build. I miss the OG power thief. Popping in and out of stealth.

 

But i'm hoping thats not everything they've done, acrobatics should have been priority, and 300s cooldowns.  Shadowarts had its place in meta quite a lot, so just waiting for the sTeAlTh oP complaints to go wild again. It might be incredibly weak with reveal hindering boon uptime and heal applications. 

 

Probably a big buff to deadeye.

Pretty sure that's it, Anet tends to lay it all out with these patch previews. 

Keep in mind there are already more changes to thief (excuding those for spectre) in this patch then the ones from the last few years combined.

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

It's nice to see buffs for once... and more buffs than thief has seen in a life time. But I'm still annoyed that they won't fix some of the more core issues.

[Vidit.7108]

Losing stealth on steal, stealth on heal, and the extra second of stealth. That's the end of an era.

There is a lot of missing details here, like durations (especially for protection). It doesn't say if Hidden Thief lost it's deception cooldown reduction just that part of it was reworked, I assume that's still there but when you usually say a trait rework that makes me think the old trait is gone. We don't know how much barrier or the heal scaling on it for Shielding Restoration, which is going to be really important now that you can't break barrier from heal skill stealth. SR/Blinding Powder can now cleanse and will grant protection, we don't know how much but given the cooldowns on group stealth I don't think Specter can upkeep it. 

Thrill of the Crime moving to 5 might stacks is good and more in line with other small might providing skills and traits. We might now be able to properly pair with Quickness Harbinger.

Cover of Shadows also says it applies stealth to allies, which is a little bit weird because that doesn't sound like it impacts very many skills, only Shadow Gust, Shadow Meld, Hide in Shadows, and any time we leap in a smoke field (which is a lot with d/p but if that's going to be stealth where you land or a small aoe it might not be practical), However Cloak and Dagger becomes an AoE stealth skill which is pretty big. It has to be in combat I suppose but I don't think I need to tell all of you how big a deal group stealth is on a weapon skill
 

This helps PvE Heal Specter, though it's still a little questionable by how much. However thanks to Panaku's ambition it will be an option to spam AOE barrier with D/P, and Cloak and Dagger on Specter. Sword/Dagger will be the meta for heal Specter being able to heal or barrier with a 5 initiative cost.

Edit: I misread this I think. Nevermind it.

Not going to change much about Heal Specter. They've missed the mark in more than a few ways. It might be possible to regenerate initiative faster than before going in and out of stealth which in turn would mean more healing from sword but that's trait synergy that would have to be tested and you would give up protection upkeep (assuming you can upkeep protection after this change) 

Edited June 24, 2022 by Vidit.7108

[Nomad.4301]

I don't really see how any of this helps specter be less garbage at support, which I assumed was the entire point of butchering SA. Applying stealth to allies in combat is still going to be nearly worthless and not worth doing, it does nothing about the fact that specter still applies no valuable boons outside of alacrity and has by FAR the most annoying "healing" in the game as well as having no synergy with utilities and traits outside of specter itself.

As for Non-Specter thief builds, losing all that stealth in favor of some useless (more weakness, really?) condis and minuscule barrier is going to be a pretty (massive) blow to survivability for dagger builds and probably the final nail for Deadeye. This would've made sense to do alongside a big rework of Acrobatics to give thieves non-stealth options for survival, but Acro seems destined to be a joke riddled with 300s passive skills no-one will ever touch.

Edited June 24, 2022 by Nomad.4301

[RyuDragnier.9476]

Just now, Nomad.4301 said:

I don't really see how any of this helps specter be less garbage at support, which I assumed was the entire point of butchering SA. Applying stealth to allies in combat is still going to be nearly worthless and not worth doing, it does nothing about the fact that specter still applies no valuable boons outside of alacrity and has by FAR the most annoying "healing" in the game as well as having no synergy with utilities and traits outside of specter itself.

As for Non-Specter thief builds, losing all that stealth in favor of some useless (more weakness, really?) condis and minuscule barrier is going to be a pretty (massive) blow to survivability for dagger builds and probably the final nail for Deadeye. This would've made sense to do alongside a big rework of Acrobatics to give thieves non-stealth options for survival, but Acro seems destined to be a joke and riddles with 300s passive skills no-one will ever touch.

Condi cleanse on demand, protection on demand. If Merciful Ambush also heals allies, then Spectre got a lot more healing potential, and it's a minor adept, meaning there by default. Also I lol at "nail in the coffin for DE". DE was already dead in group content.

[Nomad.4301]

1 minute ago, RyuDragnier.9476 said:

Condi cleanse on demand, protection on demand. If Merciful Ambush also heals allies, then Spectre got a lot more healing potential, and it's a minor adept, meaning there by default. Also I lol at "nail in the coffin for DE". DE was already dead in group content.

The condi cleanse is nice for sure, but given we're talking about SA, everything i was referring to was from a PvP/WvW perspective, since no one runs SA in PvE. Also any direct healing output by thief is kneecapped by the fact that thief has almost no healing modifier traits, meaning that it will be heavily dependent on the base amount to be of any use(which historically has been laughably low).

As for DE, I'm well aware it's been dead in PvE, but the handful of DE's i still see in PvP/WvW are heavily reliant on the stealth from SA to stay alive, which this directly impacts. Some see it as a good thing as "perma-stealth" is very annoying but without other sources of sustain (acro *cough*) DE will join Unplayed  Untamed it seems. I'm not fond of heaving a "dead" elite spec on a class that's already super limited on build variety.

[RyuDragnier.9476]

5 minutes ago, Nomad.4301 said:

As for DE, I'm well aware it's been dead in PvE, but the handful of DE's i still see in PvP/WvW are heavily reliant on the stealth from SA to stay alive, which this directly impacts. Some see it as a good thing as "perma-stealth" is very annoying but without other sources of sustain (acro *cough*) DE will join Unplayed  Untamed it seems. I'm not fond of heaving a "dead" elite spec on a class that's already super limited on build variety.

That has been the reality in PvE for years.

Edited June 24, 2022 by RyuDragnier.9476

[Vidit.7108]

30 minutes ago, Nomad.4301 said:

Applying stealth to allies in combat is still going to be nearly worthless and not worth doing

Edit: Nevermind.

Edited June 24, 2022 by Vidit.7108