August 23 Balance Update Preview

[Karagee.6830]

12 minutes ago, Powerfat.7294 said:

Why is having a build that is easy to play a problem? Maybe you should stop being ableist?

It's not a problem per se. But as people have repeated ad nauseam, it's a problem when that build does more or equal damage than medium and high intensity builds and there is no other comparable LI/afk build in terms of 'convenience' (ie. the combination of damage, utility, room for error, survivability and ease of play). If you had 4 or 5 of such afk builds, then it would not be such an issue, but we don't live in that parallel reality, do we?

And before you tell me that build x or y can do as much damage as mech with just autoattacks (you are welcome to provide dps logs and show build and gear), please find a reasonable explanation of why we only see mechanists and none of those strutting around.

Edited August 20, 2022 by Karagee.6830

[Kuma.1503]

There's one more shift I'd like to see. 

DO NOT NERF CORE TO TONE DOWN ELITE SPECS UNLESS ABSOLUTELY NECESSSARY

I cannot stress this enough. Nerfing core should always be a last resort. If the Elite is overperforming, nerf the Elite. If core's interaction with the elite is overperforming (A-AR on Mech for example) nerf the interaction. 

When you nerf core, you nerf other completely unrelated builds, and that frustrates a lot of players because their build, which wasn't particularly good in the first place, is getting unjustly nerfed. 

 

For a Start, these changes should also be reverted:

Med Blaster Coefficient: 0.2 >>> 0.1

Super Elixir Duration: 10 Seconds >>> 5 seconds

 

Here are some alternate suggestions:

 

• Reducing regen on mace 2
• Applying a "When Mechanist is selected" tag so that the nerfs don't effect Heal Scrapper
• Reducing  base barriers, and causing the barrier grandmaster trait to increase barrier effectiveness. (More Trade-off)

[Ruisenior.6342]

Elementalist Scepter needs a rework on almost every skill on earth and air attunements asap

[Tails.9372]

35 minutes ago, Karagee.6830 said:

If your point is that other classes did better, you cannot use the ranking within that party to justify your wrong opinion.

Well you can say "but it's just one group" all you want but the fact still remains: the build is generally not dominating the charts of the other groups either which it would have to to a noticable degree for the "pMech is dominating the meta" complaint to hold any water (especially in context of A-Nets "we will focus more on builds that are dominating the meta, rather than builds that could theoretically dominate").

Also, this is not about "my opinion". If people said "pMech is always top DPS while only using the AA" and the evidence would actually back it up then I obviously wouldn't even attempt to argue otherwise.

[Treacy.4067]

46 minutes ago, Powerfat.7294 said:

Why is having a build that is easy to play a problem? Maybe you should stop being ableist?

That's an ad hominem attack on that other person for the record. Also that build isn't "easy to play" it's automated gameplay with no input, other than the one button press.  It's essentially the computer playing the game not the person.  The game should and does have easier low intensity builds for people with accessibility issues, (I have a bad right hand so I play with my left and adjust accordingly), but I'm completely against these no intensity builds where you can literally walk away from your computer and let the game do that kind of damage.  It's not good for the game.

 

[Mike.7983]

Honestly the harder the class rotation is the more you should be rewarded for mastery and effort, these AA mechs are ruining the game by forcing a pc run afk mode.  While  weaver prob has the worst rotation possible is far from the top.  Effort=reward in my opinion.  Side note give us a option to make mech/golem rune pets invis please they do clog up a boss and cause fps issues.  I fully support low intensity builds for people dealing with injurys and handicaps but this mech is so broken its borderline cheating how easy it is to do.  For any white knights defending mech, go run a zerker ele or something that takes actual focus and see how slow you kill in comparison.  Guarentee you will kill slower, and die faster to anything.  Plus tired of these groups requiring you to run mech or be kicked.  That single handedly is why I am very angry with mechs at the moment.  My alacren got benched as mech pet replaced me.

Edited August 20, 2022 by Mike.7983

[Ascency.3580]

On 8/20/2022 at 5:49 PM, Powerfat.7294 said:

Why is having a build that is easy to play a problem? Maybe you should stop being ableist?

becouse holding down 1 button is not easy - its braindead, and borderline cheating if u factor in how much u can do with that 0 apm. arguing it is ok is like saying botting is ok. u dont seem to understand how fundamentally flawed this class design is, how its negatively affecting class distribution, balance, and player to player dynamics in an mmo environment.

Edited August 23, 2022 by Ascency.3580

[Tails.9372]

2 hours ago, Karagee.6830 said:

I say you can't use the comparison within groups, I proceed to give an example of why this is silly

Correction, you gave an example of why "you think it's silly". One that doesn't even apply to the build in question.

2 hours ago, Karagee.6830 said:

he keeps ignoring the whole point

Because your points go from "how it performs in high level play shouldn't even be part of the discussion" to you responding to me while also ignoring the actual points I was making / responding to.

2 hours ago, Karagee.6830 said:

Nobody says that power mech is top dps.

You might wanna read the thread again. But not just here, it's a common talking point people use all over the place.

2 hours ago, Karagee.6830 said:

Literally everyone is saying that power mechanist has too much damage for the convenience of the build

Which, while a more common one, is not everyone's argument. "too much damage for the convenience of the build" is also rather nebulous and doesn't really mean anything. Especially since most of these people happily ignore that almost no one is actually playing "the meme way" in the more difficult content and the actual rotation isn't even anything out of the ordinary when compared to many other builds.

2 hours ago, Karagee.6830 said:

that it has more damage than many pure dps elite specialisations

Not to any noticeable degree, also the standard power rifle mech is a "pure dps build" so it being able to compete with other pure dps builds should be the goal here. Furthermore, A-Net already stated that they want to get away from having "pure dps elite specialisations" which is why "shoring up more support and healing build options" is the next point on their agenda.

2 hours ago, Karagee.6830 said:

that it can be ranged while many others are fully melee (more dps uptime, easier to do or avoid some mechanics etc)

That's just half the argument, you cut out the conclusion that "because of it" rifle mech is "usually at the top end of the dps chart". Most people don't have an issue with range having more DPS uptime if it doesn't lead to an advantage in overall dps but claiming that it does would contradict your previous point of "Nobody says that power mech is top dps.".

Edited August 20, 2022 by Tails.9372

[Hesione.9412]

4 hours ago, Tails.9372 said:

Correction, you gave an example of why "you think it's silly". One that doesn't even apply to the build in question.

Because your points go from "how it performs in high level play shouldn't even be part of the discussion" to you responding to me while also ignoring the actual points I was making / responding to.

You might wanna read the thread again. But not just here, it's a common talking point people use all over the place.

Which, while a more common one, is not everyone's argument. "too much damage for the convenience of the build" is also rather nebulous and doesn't really mean anything. Especially since most of these people happily ignore that almost no one is actually playing "the meme way" in the more difficult content and the actual rotation isn't even anything out of the ordinary when compared to many other builds.

Not to any noticeable degree, also the standard power rifle mech is a "pure dps build" so it being able to compete with other pure dps builds should be the goal here. Furthermore, A-Net already stated that they want to get away from having "pure dps elite specialisations" which is why "shoring up more support and healing build options" is the next point on their agenda.

That's just half the argument, you cut out the conclusion that "because of it" rifle mech is "usually at the top end of the dps chart". Most people don't have an issue with range having more DPS uptime if it doesn't lead to an advantage in overall dps but claiming that it does would contradict your previous point of "Nobody says that power mech is top dps.".

It's not just that, it's also the "they only press 1 button". Yes, this is why they just stand in the fight and don't move. Because the highest dps is from people who only hit one button and therefore aren't dodging, etc. /s

Maybe Just turn off the ability for the mech to auto attack. Problem solved. More buttons to press. Prob now on par with condi virtuoso re button pressing, if mech auto attack was turned off. But I assume there will still be wails of protest about mechanists even if they did they change it.

I think there is a general hate towards LI builds (they're not fair!) and mechanist is the punching bag currently. Mechanist gets nerfed, another LI build will be in the firing line for complaints. I don't understand how someone else having fun and doing good - but not great - dps affects anyone else having fun. Isn't the game supposed to be fun for everyone? No-one, when they die, will have "I was a piano elementalist who got 45K dps in raids" written on their gravestone.

To the people that hate mechanist. Don't like mechanist? Don't play it.

Re the visual effects from mechanist. These need toning down, just like for a bunch of other skills. If the visuals can't be toned down for everyone, it would be good if players could have the option of toning down effects.

[Powerfat.7294]

8 hours ago, Karagee.6830 said:

It's not a problem per se. But as people have repeated ad nauseam, it's a problem when that build does more or equal damage than medium and high intensity builds and there is no other comparable LI/afk build in terms of 'convenience' (ie. the combination of damage, utility, room for error, survivability and ease of play). If you had 4 or 5 of such afk builds, then it would not be such an issue, but we don't live in that parallel reality, do we?

And before you tell me that build x or y can do as much damage as mech with just autoattacks (you are welcome to provide dps logs and show build and gear), please find a reasonable explanation of why we only see mechanists and none of those strutting around.

Firstly, no one is actually just auto attacking with rifle mech unless they have a serious need to do so. So that even being a talking point is ridiculous.

Secondly, 29k is about as low as you can get for a selfish dps build.

Thirdly, the 36k benchmark uses nades which are not easy to use, seriously, most people will do more damage if they don't even try, and I bet you have no idea how much damage the build even does without them.

Fourthly, mace 5 signet condi mech, axe/axe soulbeast, chaos condi virtuoso, condi willbender, even condi hammer camp fire catalyst. There is an absolute plethora of easier to play builds that will perform as well if not better than rifle mech if you actually try looking for them.

 

I have yet to see a good argument as to why rifle mech should be nerfed, the closest is the mech clutter, but that isnt even a rifle mech issue, there are half a dozen other mech builds people are playing.

[Kuma.1503]

8 hours ago, Mike.7983 said:

Honestly the harder the class rotation is the more you should be rewarded for mastery and effort, these AA mechs are ruining the game by forcing a pc run afk mode.  While  weaver prob has the worst rotation possible is far from the top.  Effort=reward in my opinion.  Side note give us a option to make mech/golem rune pets invis please they do clog up a boss and cause fps issues.  I fully support low intensity builds for people dealing with injurys and handicaps but this mech is so broken its borderline cheating how easy it is to do.  For any white knights defending mech, go run a zerker ele or something that takes actual focus and see how slow you kill in comparison.  Guarentee you will kill slower, and die faster to anything.  Plus tired of these groups requiring you to run mech or be kicked.  That single handedly is why I am very angry with mechs at the moment.  My alacren got benched as mech pet replaced me.

I play Zerker Ele. It's definitely a challenge to keep up with the mechs on some fights since a lot can go wrong with your rotation. Things entirely out of your control. Like CC that you need to dodge conveniently when you're channeling hurricane of pain. Or getting dazed during grand finale and needing to camp air with its pathetically weak autos for longer than you like in order to land it.  Which also causes you to lose EE stacks.

What really changed my mind on Mech though was when I tried playing Rifle Core Engi in raids. It's only got a ~31k benchmark, but the rotation is fast paced and enjoyable. You have to manage your instant casts, kit swap, you actually have to hit your rifle skills for good dps, you gotta stand in the boss's hitbox to gain max value out of throw mine + toolbelt. 

It even has some fun memes like immobilizing adds on Gorseval, Using minefield to nuke 5 boons from Dhuum, AEDing your self though the clap on conjured amalgamate, dropping throw mine to run Elixir R and save a run when things go wrong or one of the tanks go down. Using Elixir X to obliterate break bars if your team is struggling with them. 

This build is well balanced imo despite its low benchmark. 

Perhaps mech should be around that range as well. Definitely focus the nerfs on Mech though. Do not touch rifle. 

 

 

Edited August 21, 2022 by Kuma.1503

[Karagee.6830]

1 hour ago, Powerfat.7294 said:

Firstly, no one is actually just auto attacking with rifle mech unless they have a serious need to do so. So that even being a talking point is ridiculous.

Secondly, 29k is about as low as you can get for a selfish dps build.

Thirdly, the 36k benchmark uses nades which are not easy to use, seriously, most people will do more damage if they don't even try, and I bet you have no idea how much damage the build even does without them.

Fourthly, mace 5 signet condi mech, axe/axe soulbeast, chaos condi virtuoso, condi willbender, even condi hammer camp fire catalyst. There is an absolute plethora of easier to play builds that will perform as well if not better than rifle mech if you actually try looking for them.

 

I have yet to see a good argument as to why rifle mech should be nerfed, the closest is the mech clutter, but that isnt even a rifle mech issue, there are half a dozen other mech builds people are playing.

Denial is truly scary.

People play power mech because they can just autoattack and do more damage than with any other build and more (or very close) damage than other classes played at their best.

It's also been repeated ad nauseam that benchmark and performance in actual encounters are very different things and that the former is a guide and nothing more, because a build that can hit 40k dps with a perfect rotation may end up doing 30k or less in an acrual scenario where you need to move and the rotation breaks down (so the burn phases may not align well with your burst for example). Guess who doesn't have this kind of problems and therefore performs comparatively much better in an actual scenario? Auto-attack and low intensity builds.

Thankfully Anet devs and balance team have finally understood that theoretical benchmarks are not the same as actual performance and that representation in groups is, in fact, a clear indication of performance/convenience. We've had plenty of builds at the top of the benchmark list with nearly zero representation in raids (less than 1%) for years.

The problem is not that mechanist played to perfection does 37k damage and a bunch of other builds do 38k dps. The problem is that, if you ignore all of that and just press no button, you will do 75% of that benchmark and that's too much. And the fact that that kind of number is too much and the build has a greatly overtuned base damage for the utility, survivability and ease-of-play is very obvious when you look at class representation.

I have not seen a single valid and rational argument to keep mech in the state it is other that we need to help disabled people (yes we learned there are a lot of such people who by their own admission play this game, that was news to me) succeed and we need to allow anyone who can't press buttons to kill every content the game has to offer. And even then there is no explanation on why only muchanist should be this way and the other 8 classes and 26 specialisations don't have anything remotely close to it.

Edited August 21, 2022 by Karagee.6830

[Karagee.6830]

2 hours ago, Hesione.9412 said:

It's not just that, it's also the "they only press 1 button". Yes, this is why they just stand in the fight and don't move. Because the highest dps is from people who only hit one button and therefore aren't dodging, etc. /s

Maybe Just turn off the ability for the mech to auto attack. Problem solved. More buttons to press. Prob now on par with condi virtuoso re button pressing, if mech auto attack was turned off. But I assume there will still be wails of protest about mechanists even if they did they change it.

I think there is a general hate towards LI builds (they're not fair!) and mechanist is the punching bag currently. Mechanist gets nerfed, another LI build will be in the firing line for complaints. I don't understand how someone else having fun and doing good - but not great - dps affects anyone else having fun. Isn't the game supposed to be fun for everyone? No-one, when they die, will have "I was a piano elementalist who got 45K dps in raids" written on their gravestone.

To the people that hate mechanist. Don't like mechanist? Don't play it.

Re the visual effects from mechanist. These need toning down, just like for a bunch of other skills. If the visuals can't be toned down for everyone, it would be good if players could have the option of toning down effects.

Ah the irony about complaining about people (rightfully) complaining.

No we want mechanist nerfed to be in line with every other auto attack build in the game and clearly below, let's say 35%-40% below at least one high intensity build per specialisation (including the very same mechanist). 20k dps is plenty to kill things in raids, you will need to do mechanics or push buttons for more dps. And until all other classes are at that level, mechanist should be brought in line with everyone else.

Also it's not a matter of wanting to play mechanist or not, it's a matter of not getting into any raid as a pug with other builds, because it's required by whoever runs the group. Mechanist is the most toxic specialisation in the history of gw2 and that includes broken spvp and wvw builds.

Edited August 21, 2022 by Karagee.6830

[Powerfat.7294]

18 minutes ago, Karagee.6830 said:

I have not seen a single valid and rational argument to keep mech in the state it is other that we need to help disabled people (yes we learned there are a lot of such people who by their own admission play this game, that was news to me) succeed and we need to allow anyone who can't press buttons to kill every content the game has to offer. And even then there is no explanation on why only muchanist should be this way and the other 8 classes and 26 specialisations don't have anything remotely close to it.

Having builds that are easier to play for less abled players is more than enough of a reason to keep rifle mech the way it is. There are plenty of other easy to play builds that perform just as well or better, you just don't care enough to look for them. I literally listed 5 and you just ignore them. I'm not the one in denial.

[Karagee.6830]

14 minutes ago, Powerfat.7294 said:

Having builds that are easier to play for less abled players is more than enough of a reason to keep rifle mech the way it is. There are plenty of other easy to play builds that perform just as well or better, you just don't care enough to look for them. I literally listed 5 and you just ignore them. I'm not the one in denial.

You are in denial if you keep harping about nonexistent builds. I have already explained none of those builds perform the same as power mech with autoattacks and 0 apm. Now please, provide autoattack benchmarks to support your claim or stop spreading fake news and misinformation, thank you.

If you want to say that virtuoso which has the second highest representation in raids among non-support is also quite easy to play that's fine, but it's a different story. Again, for the millionth time, the problem with mech is the COMBINATION of overtuned damage, utility and survivability, with no effort or next to no effort. It's a problem of convenience, which is also why virtuoso, and not other builds, are comfortably second behind mechanist.

Would you rather get $10 million for free by doing absolutely nothing or $11 million by working for a year in a mine 12 hours a day?

Disabled people would be able to play power mechanist (but no other imaginary autoattack build) in raids even if it did 5k+ less damage, so your other argument is also completely irrelevant.

Edited August 21, 2022 by Karagee.6830

[Powerfat.7294]

40 minutes ago, Karagee.6830 said:

You are in denial if you keep harping about nonexistent builds. I have already explained none of those builds perform the same as power mech with autoattacks and 0 apm. Now please, provide autoattack benchmarks to support your claim or stop spreading fake news and misinformation, thank you.

You being to lazy to look up builds doesn't mean they don't exist. Look up MrMystic on youtube for starters. And I've already stated that autoattack only is an irrelevant point because the only people doing that have good reasons.

 

40 minutes ago, Karagee.6830 said:

If you want to say that virtuoso which has the second highest representation in raids among non-support is also quite easy to play that's fine, but it's a different story. Again, for the millionth time, the problem with mech is the COMBINATION of overtuned damage, utility and survivability, with no effort or next to no effort. It's a problem of convenience, which is also why virtuoso, and not other builds, are comfortably second behind mechanist.

Rifle mech has very little utility, it is a selfish dps build. Chaos condi virtuoso has more sustain, more damage, and has much more access to utility. Sure you would do less dps just auto attacking, but again, that is irrelevant.

 

40 minutes ago, Karagee.6830 said:

Would you rather get $10 million for free by doing absolutely nothing or $11 million by working for a year in a mine 12 hours a day?

This is a game people play for fun, not a job. People having fun playing rifle mech literally has zero impact on your ability to have fun playing whatever it is you want to play.

 

40 minutes ago, Karagee.6830 said:

Disabled people would be able to play power mechanist (but no other imaginary autoattack build) in raids even if it did 5k+ less damage, so your other argument is also completely irrelevant.

So you think disabled people should just do less damage because they are disabled?

[Yer.8096]

On 8/17/2022 at 4:25 PM, Cal Cohen.2358 said:

Hi everyone, here's a quick update:

 

Last week’s preview included a significant change to the firebrand skill Manta of Liberation in World vs World – a decrease in ammunition count and an increase to recharge time. Since then, we’ve seen a lot of concern that the reduced access to AoE stability and group stun breaks will negatively impact WvW gameplay due to the sheer amount of crowd control in large-scale fights.

 

We agree with the feedback and have reverted these changes in WvW for this release. We do believe that firebrand brings too much to the table in WvW and plan to tone it down in a future update, but we recognize that this will need to come with changes that improve access to AoE stability and group stun breaks for other professions. We want to spread these tools around to other professions to improve team composition and support role diversity, without reducing the overall availability of these tools.

 

Thanks,

Cal “cmc” Cohen
Game Designer – Skills and Balance

 

I'm not completely happy with this reverted change because I really think its all in guardians hands for so long time; that is boring for everyone; isnt cool you need a profession to fight as "equal"; this seems to be the proposal for gw2 since the beginning, but I dont think it was ever achieved.
What I do like is that thinking to give AoE stability and goup stun breaks for other professions... For many years, all I want is the possibility to be wherever you want as role, no matter what profession is. Profession, in my humble opinion, is a question of gameplay, not funcionality. Another way, another theme, another flux to do a role... 
But, in my angle of view, I dont think we need so much stability to fight against to many ccs. I think we need a reduction for area control, specially the arbitrary ones. Again, guardian has some; lets not talk about necro... Stability was made to GIVE a way to fight a control, and you give a way to someone not remove, but change that immunyti into (yeah...) a control? I think that's just wrong... And gets worse: not everybody can do that! Just some... Completely wrong. If you want this behaviour to some professions, at least do not convert stability in fear.. Common! And necros do better than anyone PLUS a lot of controle, including more and more fear... Lets not talk about ring of fear. Not hard control by itself, but I have to make a citation to druid roots; every time a new root. If you remove immob, almost all the time its not sync with immob application and you get another one with no time to run; if you teleport, you still have immonb in your foots. Harbinger CC is also too much... If you use a stun break, you should have oportunity to be immune at least next pulse; same way for specter. Dragonhunter's Ward (hunter's ward)? You should, at least, be abble to not being knocked back when touch the wall ward; lasts for a long time and you cannot remove or evade.
But yes, diversity in team composition and roles. Yes, share all "gods" (like guardians) powers to everyone. Thats the thing to me; That's the spirit I was waiting for in many years.

[soul.9651]

4 hours ago, Powerfat.7294 said:

 

Thirdly, the 36k benchmark uses nades which are not easy to use, seriously, most people will do more damage if they don't even try, and I bet you have no idea how much damage the build even does without them.

 

......1 button to change your skill bar then 2 buttons for the nades.. all you need to do is to look where u are throwing them.. wow "not easy to use". Well maybe for mech players who got used to play the game with only their autoattacks its "not easy" 

And ofc they will do less damage if it takes ages for them to press 3 buttons... But cmon u srsl gonna say that pressing those 3 buttons will be a problem for a majority of people? You think noone is "that good"?

Edited August 21, 2022 by soul.9651

[Tammuz.7361]

On 8/17/2022 at 3:25 PM, Cal Cohen.2358 said:

Hi everyone, here's a quick update:

 

Last week’s preview included a significant change to the firebrand skill Manta of Liberation in World vs World – a decrease in ammunition count and an increase to recharge time. Since then, we’ve seen a lot of concern that the reduced access to AoE stability and group stun breaks will negatively impact WvW gameplay due to the sheer amount of crowd control in large-scale fights.

 

We agree with the feedback and have reverted these changes in WvW for this release. We do believe that firebrand brings too much to the table in WvW and plan to tone it down in a future update, but we recognize that this will need to come with changes that improve access to AoE stability and group stun breaks for other professions. We want to spread these tools around to other professions to improve team composition and support role diversity, without reducing the overall availability of these tools.

 

Thanks,

Cal “cmc” Cohen
Game Designer – Skills and Balance

YAY.

 

now just nerf DH ranged dmg a bit and we might actually see some mele fights… maybe

Edited August 21, 2022 by Tammuz.7361

[soul.9651]

2 hours ago, Powerfat.7294 said:

Come talk when you've actually tried it, until then your opinion is based off ignorance.

Oh iv tried nades  alright on an old holo rotation when long time ago specs with an actual rotations existed, rifle mech is a joke and people like you are the ignorant ones if you say that it needs any kind of skill, you probably never seen condi weaver rotation to know how it rly is to put effort into it :')

And speaking about condi weaver, you need to put so much more effort on it while you get only 2k higher bench????? While also you 100% depend on boons AND you are melee, meanwhile low intensity ranged rifle mechs can have their 36k+, truly amazing balance

And if you wanna compare dps difference on the real encounter weaver wont be even close to rifle mech because of the difference how easy is to upkeep dps on this low intensity 4 button rifle mech

Edited August 21, 2022 by soul.9651

[Cait Sith.4650]

@Josh Davis.7865 Can we also get this changed to a respectful name?
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Well_of_Senility

[Zaret.1450]

22 hours ago, Karagee.6830 said:

Ok let me ask people a very simple question about boon support builds, since it seems there is some communication disconnection between the 2 sides on this.

Right now, we have a situation where 20% of slots in raids go to boon support and of that 20% mechanist and firebrand take around 15% (when you eliminate the numbers for the alternatives). 

So what percentage of the top 2 boon support builds do you think we should see going forward, to say the balance team has done a good job to make more or all support builds viable? To be perfectly clear if in the future tempest and druid are taking 15% of the spots the situation would be the same as now, balance-wise.

probably for elite or speed runners, youll still see mecs and fb, but its also true that the nerfs and buffs are usefull for closing the gaps between suports, now a tempest main or druid will find easyer to find groups and well see a bit more those classes, is it the solution for all the problems? will it make all sups have an equal playrate and so on? no, but its a good change it isnt irrelevant, and it isnt something that widens the gap, instead it is helpfull and closes that gap, and just for that, its a good change, at least for the kind of patch it is, a small patch that is well targeted on small improvements and helps out balancing

[Tammuz.7361]

12 hours ago, Karagee.6830 said:

 

Thankfully Anet devs and balance team have finally understood that theoretical benchmarks are not the same as actual performance and that representation in groups is, in fact, a clear indication of performance/convenience. We've had plenty of builds at the top of the benchmark list with nearly zero representation in raids (less than 1%) for years.

 

NVM, just saw Josh Davis post.

Hurray they got the message!

Edited August 21, 2022 by Tammuz.7361

[Tammuz.7361]

On 8/18/2022 at 6:43 PM, Josh Davis.7865 said:

Hi all,

The June 28 update highlighted that our approach to balancing professions and combat in Guild Wars 2 has not been fully aligned with the needs and expectations of our community. As we communicated in several posts over the last month and a half, we’re using this an opportunity to take a hard look at our internal processes and revise the Guild Wars 2 balance philosophy. We also added some new leaders into the team to help facilitate that effort. That work is still ongoing, and we look forward to sharing our updated balance philosophy with you as soon as we can.

As we’ve been reading through your feedback on the August 23 preview, it became clear to us that one aspect of the previous balance approach was especially problematic. Specifically, making balance adjustments to PvE builds based on their potential under unrealistic, ideal conditions – conditions that are unlikely to be met unless you’re testing against a golem, or the player is extremely skilled. While these builds can definitely be an issue in a skilled player’s hands, often times the changes have an outsized impact to unrelated builds and average players. With that in mind, we’ll be reverting the changes to mirage in the August 23 update.

This change in approach raises questions about previous changes that were made with a build’s ‘potential’ in mind, rather than the realistic output. We’ll be evaluating those prior changes on a case-by-case basis in future releases. This isn’t to say that we won’t address overperforming builds in the future, but we will focus more on builds that are dominating the meta, rather than builds that could theoretically dominate.

For reference, these are the mirage changes that are being removed from the August 23 update:

Axe:

·         Lingering Thoughts: (PvE only) Torment duration reduced from 4s to 3s.

·         Imaginary Axes: (PvE only) Torment duration reduced from 4s to 3s.

Staff:

·         Chaos Vortex (Staff Ambush) (PvE only) Might stack count reduced from 8 to 5, Might duration reduced from 15s to 10s. Torment, Bleeding, and Confusion duration reduced from 8s to 7s.

Thanks,

Josh

YAY!

Bravo!

got the message.

Actual performance != potential performance

Look at whats actually dominating the meta (ie mechanist) and address that.  Not what COULD dominate the meta with perfect (and for 99.999% of the player base, unrealistic) play.

Balance for the 99%, not the 1%

Edited August 21, 2022 by Tammuz.7361

[Karagee.6830]

12 hours ago, Powerfat.7294 said:

You being to lazy to look up builds doesn't mean they don't exist. Look up MrMystic on youtube for starters. And I've already stated that autoattack only is an irrelevant point because the only people doing that have good reasons.

hahaha, ok so you are not able to provide evidence of the fake news you repeated in this thread, you are not able to provide any logical reasoning to why mechanist has 26% representation and these other builds are nonexistent, but you refuse to listen to explanations by people who understand the issue with this.

 

12 hours ago, Powerfat.7294 said:

Rifle mech has very little utility, it is a selfish dps build. Chaos condi virtuoso has more sustain, more damage, and has much more access to utility. Sure you would do less dps just auto attacking, but again, that is irrelevant.

Virtuoso is not comparable to power mechanist, none of the builds you suggested are comparable to mechanist. You cannot compare a 30+ APM build to a 0 APM build. Comprendes? 'Easy' rotations lol

 

12 hours ago, Powerfat.7294 said:

This is a game people play for fun, not a job. People having fun playing rifle mech literally has zero impact on your ability to have fun playing whatever it is you want to play.

This is so wrong on so many levels that it suggests a disconnection in basic level of understanding. If you cannot understand why 26% (of which 2/3 are not support) representation for an elite spec out of 27 available specs is a problem for this game, in particular now that we are about to get an influx of new players, then you're on your own. Let me just say that the justification for buffing this braindead build was to allow more freedom in raids for people to pick whatever they like to play (in particular those who can't play difficult builds to a satisfactory level) and that the effect has been the exact opposite (forced people to play this spec to get into raids).

 

12 hours ago, Powerfat.7294 said:

So you think disabled people should just do less damage because they are disabled?

No, I think able people should do more damage by pushing buttons and playing that game than not pushing buttons and not playing the game.

Edited August 21, 2022 by Karagee.6830